Cross quoting myself since we're having the same discussion in two different threads TLDR: Not as bad as I stated early, not great though.

Speaking from a rage perspective Well the new War Hero Relics have a static 113 power on them and you can equip two at once giving you a passive bonus of 226 Power. This is down 179 power from the current War Hero relic when you pop it. Now over a 15 minute warzone assuming you pop your relic as often as possible you'll have roughly 15% uptime on that power bonus. The difference basically comes down to how many 4 stack shockwaves do you get off in other 85% post 1.3. This is something so variable it's really impossible to calculate due to varying circumstances in every warzone. I think with the static power buff being as high as it is, we won't suffer horribly. It's just we get hit harder with the change than most other classes due to the controlled nature of our burst compared to the sustained damage of other classes. We know exactly when our damage is going to spike so we want to take every step to drive that spike even higher. Losing that control hurts a lot compared to other classes who's overall damage is spread out over a greater window in a single confrontation.

Always on compared to On demand is a terrible trade for Rage Juggs, only on hit is worse.

One Soresu form isn't only gaining 3% damage instead of 6%. It's gaining 3% defense only. So it's a 6% melee damage nerf. Second while the rage cost on Backhand/Hilt Strike is being removed, for full immortal spec Jugg/Guardians it was already only 1 rage/focus. So basically you're trading 1 focus for a damage nerf. and on Guardian Slash/Crushing Blow I point you to this post from the PTS It's a pretty serious damage nerf on the 31 point talent on the immortal tree. While I get that tanks aren't supposed to do damage and blah blah blah. If all you can do is tickle someone you basically can only taunt and CC every minute because otherwise you're doing nothing of note. Tanks need damage so they can at least threaten an opponent over time by grinding them down in a somewhat reasonable window otherwise they're simply ignored.

I'm sure if you directly target them Crushing Blow will hit, what I believe the notes are sying si that if you're fighting 2 people and you use Intimidating Roar on both, it won't hit the one you're not targeting and break it early. It will still hit Force Choked/Backhanded targets because they are stunned which is different from sleep/mez.

Well stack that on top of the Backhand Damage nerf and the Crushing Blow nerf which maths out too This was taken from the PTR forums, from a Guardian so the abilities renamed for them I'd say Immortal Damage is pretty nerfed.

What about specs built around massive spike damage? Losing their ability to well...spike massive damage to win a fight, what else do they bring? If I as a Rage Jugg can't spike someone down, I can't win a fight then because any other DPS is going to beat my sustained DPS.

Yeah...but considering the pace BioWare works at we're not seeing a fundamental talent restructuring until at least 1.4 and god knows when that is. Like the giant issue with the adrenal/relic change is it's hitting Concealment Ops/Rage Juggs and whatever their Repub mirrors are the hardest, and I don't think anyone considered them OP. I mean 6% is nice, but there's NO way it's going to offset the loss in burst control. It's like BioWare went. "Well we're going to lop off your arm, but here's a nice walking stick to help you get around." Yeah the walking stick is nice, but we're still missing an arm.

The Relic/Adrenal change is massive for Rage Juggernauts though. We're a controlled burst class, we know exactly when our damage is going to spike. Adrenals and Relics helped us push that burst even higher making us a serious threat. Rage Juggernauts have very little sustained damage, it's basically a guided missile spec. We show up and blow someone up. Everyone sees it happening and it can be difficult to stop. But by basically cutting off a leg of our 1 trick pony, we're now left with a three legged pony that can't do very much. I know it sounds like hyperbole, but the relic change to providing constant stat does nothing for us. Literally the only way it could be worse is if they changed the relic to provide the same bonus as it does now but be a random chance activation on crit. the 6% force damage on SSM is nice...but it doesn't nearly offset the fact that we lost a large portion of our burst which is really all we brought. Basically if we can't pressure nearly as effectively in our window we're useless.

I'll bring cupcakes, we can have a party. I think the healing sorcs/sages will come if we invite them as well

Rage Juggs can go sit on the sidelines with Concealment Ops, we can play pattycake together while Marauders run around murdering everyone

Except unlike Tankassins I don't think anyone was crying about Rage Juggs being OP. Granted that's not a great reason, but still it feels like a kick in the balls to get nerfed when you're balanced.

I'm somewhat scared as a Rage Jugg because of the Adrenal/Relic change. Yeah we did get a 6% force damage increase from SSM, but considering we we're about popping all trinkets to get insane TTK what are we going to do now? Being a controlled burst spec is fun, it's what I enjoy playing. Vengence puts me to sleep, so I'm really glad Rage spec is pretty much the exact opposite too that. However if our TTK is too high we're not going to be able to anything and I'll be forced to respec just to keep up.

Where did it say it was free?

Except they don't give you an idea about who tries? Number of passes can easily be skewed if 2 people work in conjunction simply to get a higher score. Same with minutes Huttball is held. That doesn't even take 2. 1 ******* could run around with the ball for the maximum amount of time before blowing up. His score would be really good then, except he did NOTHING to help you win. The most important stat at the end of the warzone isn't any one person's individual damage, healing, or protection. It's the numbers at the very top. The ones that decide if you won or lost. I do give a crap about others, but I also realize that in no way will I ever get the people that run around 1v1ing in the pit to stop because it's not contributing. Because if they're not smart enough to realize why it's a bad idea in the first place they're certainly not going to be smart enough to listen to reason. There's no way you can make a singular statistic to represent good play because good play is relative to the game you're in. I play Rage Specc Jugg. Under you're system I'd probably have pretty bad scores because I don't pick up the Huttball intentionally most games. I'm fragile and unless I have multiple jumps set up, I'm too slow to make it any kind of meaningful distance. Yes I do pick it up when the correct opportunity presents itself, but waiting around for those means I'm not doing the other things I am good at. There's no way to create a singular statistic that represents good play because there are simply too many variables to take into account in any PvP match. Think about the unsung heroes of any Huttball match, the Operative that manages to stealth his way to the goal edge for easy jumps. Or the sorc who understood how to actually clear a platform with his knockback rather than just sending the runner to the ledge below. Those are great important plays but it's incredibly difficult to come up with some sort of measurable metric for them. However, if you're smart you'll notice them. You'll see the players who game in and game out do the things that are required to win. Then you reach out to them and continue to play with them. And you'll keep winning. And in the end that's the only stat that matters.