Even when you lose your 20% (assuming you aren't a complete noob and actually have the set bonus) the other assassin tanks in my guild still have way more mitigation (10% or so more shield chance and absorption) Are you saying you can't hold threat on AoE pulls as an assassin? if a juggernaut has to tank 2 targets he will lose threat on one of them. Sure he can retaunt it. But then when we got to 3 theres not much to do cause of the AoE taunts long cooldown. The cooldowns you have as assassins aren't bad compared to ours. I compared a few days ago and ours have way longer cooldowns than yours making ours actual cooldowns. Yours are nearly spammable. With base mitigation I'm assuming you mean damage reduction. I give you that. It's a bit lower but still not low enough to justify you not needing to stat into accuracy like juggernauts do. I don't think you read my thread thoroughly enough to understand what I'm actually saying though. Juggernaut tanks need accuracy because with out it we will miss our rage builders. Assassins don't face the same challenge. this means they're free to stack all of their secondary into pure mitigation. thats around 300 points more into defense rating or shield/absorp or even some endurance (which is not subject to diminishing returns)

It's not quite that. It's more the fact that playing a juggernaut tank in endgame doesn't seem viable. I'm in the progress of rerolling to an operative healer cause of these imbalances.

The primary concern for threat is only on AoE pulls (incase it didn't go through clearly in my first post) I have no issues whatsoever keeping threat on single targets (apart from Soa but thats cause that guy has more bugs than there are drops of water in the ocean) Statwise the primary concern is the balance in what stats you can stack up. You need Accuracy as a juggernaut to keep your Rage up. You don't need it as an assassin as you can because of the different resource system. which frees up something like 300 points to put into pure mitigation. My breakdown of the imbalance would be the fact that Juggernaut tanks need: Accuracy, Defense, Armor, Shield, Absorption and Endurance Where Assassins only need Defense, Armor (they have a huge multiplier for this to compensate for being light armor), Shield, Absorption and Endurance

It is true you can mix and match but the way the classes works means that as a juggernaut you won't be able to keep threat production up without having accuracy enough to keep your resources up. Because the assassin resource system doesn't work the same way they can lose the offensive stats that juggernauts require and go full out mitigation. Using the example from my guild an equally (perhaps even slightly lower tiered) geared assassin will be able to take alot more punches. He has nearly 30% more shield chance (counting dark ward), no threat issues, better aoe tanking, and from what I could get from the conversation I had with the guy his cooldowns pretty much did the same thing. Just that a juggernaut has the 30% hp for a short while, which is irrelevant cause an assassin can have 30% more hp permanently. I have mixed and matched and done my reading beforehand. I've tanked all endgame content but if you break the tank classes into pros and cons you can't possibly believe that juggernauts come out on top. Passive stats will in almost any situation be prefered over one you can activate for a short while. Your argument for there not being an imbalance is pretty much that because for 10 seconds I can mitigate like a king, that compensates for a general lack of survivability (or perhaps the opposite them having too extreme amounts of it)

Bump for awareness.

I rolled a juggernaut from the start of the game. I was content with it. It wasn't an easy class to play and tanking is often a pain (I'm used to playing wow where a loose trash mob can 1-2 shot a dps) I am what most people would call good geared. I have more Rakata gear than not. Augments in both my bracers and belt. and I'm still waiting for the last few drops I need. I have cleared nightmare mode and tanked everything (maybe skipped a flashpoint) I currently have 20k hp unbuffed (~22k fully buffed), 47.12% damage reduction 24.23% Defense chance, 36.13% Shield Chance and 33.73% absorption. We do have talented Retaliation which increases melee and ranged defenses by 6% but the kicker is Retaliation doesn't work on every fight (Soa f.ex.) Recently I joined a new guild and I was browsing the other applications. I was dumbfounded when I looked at an assassin tanks application. He had shown a picture of his gear and stats where he had 24k hp (stimmed and BH buffed), 26% or so Defence chance, 42% shield chance and 42% absorption. This was without the self-buff Dark Ward (which with the set bonus gives him an effective 62% chance to shield attacks) Even though he was in light armor his damage reduction was only 5% lower than mine. I thought something was wrong cause there is no way Assassins could have this much mitigation. I finally figured out where the difference was. He had 93% or so accuracy rating whereas I have a tiny bit over 100. My first conclusion was that this guy was clearly an idiot but I read further on and as it turns out Assassins don't need Accuracy for anything. As a Juggernaut you need accuracy so that your Rage building attacks won't miss. This also helps you build more threat. As an assassin you have a different resource system not dependant on you hitting the boss. On top of this Assassins have an AoE High threat attack (9s CD from what I recall) + AoE Taunt and from what I got from our conversation one more aoe attack. Juggernauts have smash which is a 12s CD not high threat and then a sweeping slash which besides making so little threat it's impossible to keep aggro also has to be aimed in front of you making aoe tanking so frustrating that you're better off going afk to have a cry in a fetal position on your bed. I havn't checked the numbers on powertechs but these guys have a huge advantage when it comes to positioning. I can't say for straight up mitigation. On another note the itemization for rakata gear is messed up for juggernauts aswell. The Rakata chest has surge rating on it. I plan on switching enhancement once I get it but is it too much to ask that the endgame loot for a class/spec has the correct stats on it? So to summarize what I'm trying to say with this post is that despite Juggernauts being the (from my perspective) harder to play tank class, they are also the weakest. This just doesn't seem right and those stats aren't something that skill can make up for.

Pretty much what I want is to be able to group equipment together so instead of having to click 14 times to change into my pvp/dps/tank gear I can just click on one spot and my gear would be changed into what I wanted. open the bag like you do to add modifications. click the bag like normal gear to put all of it on (bag should change looks in inventory so you can see which one is active) possibly link it to a spec (when dual spec becomes available) Thats all.

Will you rework some aspects of the juggernauts? Atm. it seems to me that the people who designed stuff for juggernauts were incompetent or very sadistic. Juggernauts can't AoE tank at all. And the rakata tank gear has surge rating on it (which is 100% useless for a juggernaut tank)

Remember when reading this is all from a juggernauts perspective.

Stuff that needs fixing: - /who mustace finds people in your zone instead of finding what you're searching for. - GTN interface, Really annoying. make it so that you can search by name first. Then add options as restrictions. - No social points for completing stuff. I'm basically done with hard modes (I outgear them) and I'm still social 1. - Force scream GCD longer than my other abilities? it stays greyed out for longer than my other abilities. - Companions getting stuck - Buggy mobs all over (especially talking raid bosses here) there is like no consistency with these guys. - No reason to pick any crafting skill but biochem. Give people a secondary crafting skill slot or atleast provide incentives to pick the other crafting skills over it. The only reason I havn't rerolled synthweaving is because I've found a lot of rare recipes. - Slicing needs a buff. The missions are almost completely pointless compared to what the other gathering skills will give you for 1 mission. In all honesty if you had been a bit more patient with it you would see the economy align to slicing (value of money would be down, therefore the prices of stuff would be up) - First boss in EV (turret part) triggered a loading screen that forced me to restart the game whenever I jumped up to it. Also it's hard for healers to heal the tank on top of it. Either make a platform for it or start the turrets near the ground and then raise the pillars when you kill the turrets. - Target of target, seriously with the amounts of random aggro going on it's hard to know when a mob is just firing it's random spell or actually targeting someone else. - Itemization team. Why the f*#@ is there surge on tank stuff? Know what the classes need. - Buggy quests. you aren't properly awarded credit for alot of quests. (especially instance related) (- Presence is sorta useless. maybe make it a stat that you want on your companions gear rather than on your own? either that or eliminate it and put it on all gear) - Ilum daily next to the heroic zone is bugged. havn't been able to finish it even once. - Juggernaut AOE tanking is too weak. Sweeping slash is basically not an option due to the extreme rage cost. - Clicking R fixates the chat into the whisper. It should reverse back so you're talking in the channel you were talking in before. - Tabbing through your whisper conversations. so much easier to talk to multiple people at once like this. -Sprint not persisting through deaths is an annoyance factor. Eliminate those pointless clicks. Stuff that would be cool: - Customizable item sets. My bags are really clustered and it's kinda hard to figure what item I should be wearing. Would be need if I could switch into my Tank gear with 1 click of a button and back to dps with another. something similar to the modifications (just don't make it too expensive as people will most likely be using it alot) - After leveling your first Character all of the side missions are repetitive and boring. I'm hoping legacy makes it so you only have to finish the class skills to level up. - Animal mounts, there are so many cool animals around that I could see myself cruising about on. - LFG system. - A bit more info about whats coming up (*drools*) - Damage meters (if I was a dps class I would want this, just so I can improve. As a tank/raid leader I want to know who isn't doing their job properly) - Threat meter - Mods - Macros (waaay too many buttons to click atm) - Timed instances for us elitists. doing BT HM in under 30 minutes every day can get boring. Give us a reason to do it. - point out the locations of transport shuttles to the fleets on the map. - A quick travel to our ship. - Customizable stuff in your ship. Right now it's a big pile of metal. If I was going to spend alot of time flying around in space I would want to be able to decide a) what I fly around in. b) how the interior looks. (money sinks justify introducing more money into the game. buff slicing) - Faction reputation. Apart from dailies and raiding theres nothing more left for me in the game right now. - A buffer on dark side points/affection with companions. I'd like to think that even if I did 1 good thing after destroying a thousand orphanages I am still corrupt enough for lvl 5 dark side. - Guild headquarters. Would make sense for a group of Darths/Higher up agents/Jedis/whatever to have a place for scheming and strategizing. - Trophies from slain raid bosses to add to the guild headquarters, perhaps providing buffs which can help you next time you face them. or perhaps buffs for your crafting skills. - Bonus objectives not being pointless after reaching lvl 50. Great game so far, really looking forward to what you have up in your sleeve with the legacy.

Wrong forum for this post. Sorry

Biochem had to be nerfed, and tbh the other skills have to be buffed with something specific that makes them worth picking. Biochem gave you an unfair advantage over other players in just about every aspect of the game. The crafted Rakata gear isn't as good as you put it out to be, I'm a synthweaver and even with a crit I prefer the other crafted belt I'm wearing now (with a crit) which has alot more mitigation. It's not everyone that can farm those biometric alloys (I've just been unlucky on rolls so I only have 3). However infinite healing packs and you also get craftables (which as far as I know don't require biochem to wear) Infinite adrenals, Infinite stims. On another note, the slicing nerf was pointless. If they hadn't nerfed it the economy would just have looked a bit different. But eventually the cost of things would settle down. Only reason I havn't rerolled my crafting skill to biochem is that I have a few recipes that are pretty decent.