Loot council can be done while clearing the next round of trash, and we have binds in vent for it too so it's super quick. Additionally, when nightmare comes out everyone will want full BiS, so you're wrong and obviously don't understand how important it is to min max every element of your guild.

We had a jug tank do over 1300 DPS on Kephiss. On the other fights though they are all very tank unfriendly for DPS. In NiM KP our tanks do 1100-1200 on most bosses though.

I've basically got what I consider full BiS right now sub a few augments, and it's 300 alacrity, crit, and surge, with the rest into willpower.

I haven't pulled threat within the first amount of a fight in... God knows how long. For some reason I thought it was 6, I guess I'm stuck in WoW.

You shouldn't pull after the first 6s of a fight. A tank can taunt every 6s to maintain max threat, and not only does it give them max threat it pushes them above your threat.... there is no taunt DR, so no reason not to weave taunts. The "aggro" problem is an idealogy problem; tanks just haven't learned to weave taunts yet.

What spec are you playing and how many armor debuffs do you have in your raid?

We use mox. I can try and find some logs, but they'll be a few weeks old since we haven't run 16 man in about 3 weeks since we haven't needed to for gear. In KP we've had fights where 8 of our DPSe broke 1800 on the same fight and 4 of us got over 2k. (Karagga-- sometimes Crusher depending on if we 2-3 heal it or 4 heal it) on Bonecrusher I can still do near 2k with our marauders, but general raid DPS is lower. In EC HM, Z&T is probably our lowest dps fight (of the 3 fights where dps matters) because we have to stop dps so much for the stupid heave. On that fight our lightning sorcs and our marauders do about 1500-1600 DPS. On tanks as a lightning sorc I've broke 1800 dps, so has our other lightning sorc, and it's usually us plus two marauders vying for top spot every time, it's always very close. Kephiss is a landslide victory for sorcs, snipers can hang in there if you build your strategy around orbital strike though. We easily do over 700k damage and leave everyone else down near 600k, and our dps is so good we have to stop DPS in 16 man on the warstrider so we don't kill it in two. Keep in mind almost all of our fights are 3 minutes or less, and we always have more than 5 armor debuffs.

Loot council works great for us. It's not just officers it's veteran raiders, and we keep track of all kinds of statistics such as loot received so far, attendance %, etc... We've had zero drama with loot council, because almost every decision has been unanimous and made sense based on our statistics. There isn't really a one size fits all scheme, but loot council if done effectively will be the most guild beneficial.

Loot council makes those decisions, just like loot council decides who get what loot. It's based on different criteria, like attendance percentages, time with guild, how skilled that player is, how essential they are, how big an upgrade it is, etc...

Why? Before the augment kit thing was announced we needed a way to decide who should get crit crafted things, and the only way to control the crafting is to completely control the crafting. We assigned specific people to be the guild crafters, they got all the loot to DE that needed to be DE'd, and they craft our pieces. This way we control who gets the crit crafted pieces.

Our jugg only does 1.1k in 16 man on tank and spanks, but it's really not uncommon for our PT to crack 1.2k. The assassin tank when we use him does piddly dps tho. It helps our tank dps a lot that our fights are very short because in 16 man especially on fights like in KP we have quite a few DPS at 1800+.

^^ what this guy says... Hybrid or madness really suck at kephiss. Too much burst DPS required, throughout the fight it's "target switch and burn, target switch and burn". It's almost the anti-hybrid/anti-madness fight. You'll like lightning better on the tanks anyways. Affliction all three targets, get a force barrage proc, ones pretty much dead, thundering blast the other, tap lightning strike a few times and then starting dotting things in other peoples bubbles and predot the tanks, and never worry about force.

What spec do your sorcs do top DPS as?...

Loot council. All mats to the guild bank, all unneeded things to the correct crafters so they can craft and crit them for guildies. Most offset items go to artificer to RE mods and enhancements... Artificers use daily comms to buy trinkets to RE, specific crafters buy things like implants to RE, then use purple/blue mats to mass craft things to try and crit for guildies (implants,earpieces, relics), all non crits go on GTN. Use money to pay for everyones repairs.

I have logs where our tanks do 1.2k dps and our concealment operative does 1.3k dps, and everyone else is above 1.4k with our best dps being over 1800 and sometimes near 2k.... I guess assassins aren't as gimp-- as operatives or tank dps. But other than that, yeah they're pretty awful.

I'd say the sorc was very bad, the mara played right, and the sniper and assassin are about where I'd expect. Assassins are garbage dps and snipers have to move too much on that fight.

When they *fix* the armor debuffs problem, they're going to be in a world of hurt for balance. Right now most classes are fairly balanced in DPS, but when they change it, marauders will soar to the top, while snipers and mercs will take the biggest hits because they are the most armor dependant, and sorcs will also take a nerf. Consider though that snipers/mercs/other classes will be taking a way bigger hit than sorcs per the armor debuff changes, since sorcs are only ~70% dependant. They will have to rebalance everything. They've done such a terrible job of bugfixing and generically with balance in the first place, that I don't think they should ever fix the armor debuff issue. Currently it's accidentally providing more balance than they ever intended.

Nobody will be playing the game anymore by then though....

We switched to 8 man instead of 16 man for farming because it's so much easier... Also way less time consuming. Everything is like auto one shot.

Says another guy who hasn't done 16 man and thinks it's easier.... But in general yeah your tanks should be over 1k DPS.

Truth. Insanely OP. But in general the only other fight snipers can compete with sorcs on is nightmare pilgrim, because of the insane amount of pushback that makes sorcs suck.

I'm not sure what the minimum requirement is... but from what I can tell you need at least one or two really strong DPS classes, like 1500+, then you can have a few poorer DPS classes. But last week in 8 man we had amarauder and a sorc dps both do about 1600 DPS, while a merc and a sniper both did about 1400, and we beat it almost 45 seconds prior to enrage. The merc and the sniper could have theoretically both been about 1100 DPS and we would have been fine. The trick to this fight is minimizing the amount of time you're not dpsing.

I've done 750k on kephiss hard mode... But I've done the same on my sniper so it's not that impressive except that only snipers and sorcs seem to be able to get that high.

I can't believe people are qq'ing about sorc dps, when good lightning sorcs crush meters in EC HM, and theoretically madness and hybrid should too even though nobody seems to be.

Well we've recruited 3 or 4, so we've technically hemorrhaged 7-8 people of our starting 20... And there are people I count as part of our remaining 16 that haven't logged in for two weeks since we switched to farming 8 mans for ease.