Pureblade
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Posts posted by Pureblade
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Well, RE does not need to be made EASIER or more FREQUENT in my opinion...it just needs to work properly. The duplicate success bug needs to be fixed and there needs to be some kind of focus/direction on REing...perhaps a success yields a token allowing you to learn whichever of the purple recipes you want. Don't make it so every RE yields a purple recipe though. Make the gear useful and fix the overall system, don't just dumb it down further.
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It appears quite obvious that the bug lies in RE a Redoubt recipe, as 1 of the 5 purple outcomes from Redoubt is broken and does NOT show up. It seems the game will give this error only on Redoubts, which must be tied into either trying to give you the broken purple version.
Bioware is too busy posting 4 or 5 times about the stupid white lightsaber crystal being in or out of the game to actually post any MEANINGFUL information/plans/feedback/acknowledgements about crafting, the state of crafting, the massive bugs, the gross lack of utility, the broken recipes, the recipes that give 124 rating armor at 50 with a 2x RE compared to level 49 recipes that give 126 armor on 2x REs, the lack of ability to look at a schematic and see if you already know it without opening your book, inability to see your recipe book and look at the GTN at the same time, etc.
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At the risk of sounding like a BW fanboi, I don't think this is actually very fair (or accurate). The game's been out for just over a month, and BW have already made two noticeable changes to crew skills (Slicing and Biochem).
You may not agree with the reasoning behind them or the action taken, but there's no denying that the devs are paying attention to crafting.
Also, in the last week alone Georg Zoller has made two posts that confirm that they have plans for crafting and are paying attention to the feedback from players:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1934831#post1934831
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2119752#post2119752
Well, touche...they HAVE made 2 comments that they are "paying attention to crafting and have plans for it"...I will concede that. However, I can't say that they have said anything of meaning or substance. How about some feedback on the issues that are being raised over and over in this forum. How about something other than political campaign style vagueries about "we are listening" and "we are planning"?
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I also think it is hilarious that this thread has 125+ posts and over 10,000 views, and Bioware cannot be bothered to toss any kind of feedback or thoughts into it or any of the other MULTITUDE of posts in this forum. Crew skills are clearly just not important at all to BW. It should have been obvious with the early reports of how WoW-esque this system was...pity they fed us the whole "no no, its new and different, just wait and see" line.
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I think I wouldn't mind if my reward for doing a raid was a rare or unique material required to craft the item I want rather than the item itself. That would work.
THIS. This is exactly how it should work. You raid and get a broken piece of gear or material needed to craft the item. The drop can be class specific or whatever, as if you got the gear, but it requires a master crafter.
Also, I agree that gear should decay and break down...many games did this and were successful..UO, DAOC, SWG among others. SWG did not have issues because of that, incidentally...their issues were different. Developers in a lot of games (not all) are afraid to make an economy where crafted gear from green to purple is valuable (like Vanguard for example).
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I too got it on a Redoubt, and I am now thinking it MUST be because there is a missing 5th purple schematic for Redoubt items no one has ever found. I assume the bug is that the system tries to give you the 5th missing one, and instead repeats the one you already know, which was General in my case.
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Wow I had the exact opposite. I was 50 long before I finished my story...about 2-3 planets before. I was pretty much always a few levels above the planets by the time I got to quesh.
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Well, since my complaint was not really that I cannot sell stuff to make tons of cash at the moment, and you clearly did not read my posts or the MAJORITY of replies that agree with what I posted, I am not sure what you are really getting at. I am not complaining that I can't sell some low level crap for a profit. Try reading the original post.
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I enjoyed SWG crafting a ton as well...it was really innovative. Now, I personally prefer a world where crafters are the main source of stuff...its more realistic and it allows for people specialize in that sphere of the game. However, no developer wants to do this anymore since for some reason all they care about is catering to the raiding group and PvP groups. Now, for the record, I do BOTH...but I also love to craft. Is it so hard to make a game that has indepth and detailed valuable systems for all 3? They are NOT mutually exclusive.
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And you know there actually was a change in the odds because....?
I haven't noticed it being particularly harder or easier.
Well we actually know nothing at all....since BW can't be bothered to say 2 *********** words about crafting.
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I have DEFINITELY seen a decrease in RE success since the patch. I have not succeeded once yet since the patch.
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Fix:
1) Remove the "You already know this recipe" bug (please don't say it's intended, that would not sit pretty...)
2) Exchange Centurion and Champion gear from bags, i.e. either get tokens for Champ or a piece of Cent gear (honestly, who the h*** designed it to work like it does now, making Cent gear obsolete and Champ gear abundant ?)
3) Make crafted purples considerably better for PvE than Champ gear, especially critted ones.
4) Remove any possibility of using PvP gear to build PvE gear that blows crafted out of the water.
5) Increase the cost of mods at vendors for L1-49, adjust the items at daily vendors to be in line with crafting (i.e. slightly worse and/or different)
6) Increase base stats on items that are REd, only adding a stat is too much of a gamble and much less useful mostly.
7) Fix RE for Vibroknives and Scatterguns (and similar bugs for other profs)
Feel free to add/comment, there are tons more that needs to change to get some sort of balance to the crafting in this game, especially at L50.
A pretty good list if you ask me.
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You CAN crit those..they yield even more mats. I usually get 8 blues and 4 purples for a 340 skill purple UWT mission, but sometimes get 10 and 5. I have also failed several times which really irritates me.
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SWTOR crafting is basically a result of conflicting requirements. It will never be compelling or enjoyable to the masses until such time as they fix the conflicts, and even then it will only appease one of two camps.
There's two ways to look at crafting in an MMO:
1.) As a profession to make money
2.) As a method of advancement for a character's ability/power/status.
I'll call them camp1 and camp2.
Camp1 is easily defined and demonstrated by Eve Online. It's a system that hinges around a forced consumption of goods (Players primarily produce the best and most items) and a forced restrictions/limitations on production (Blueprints are resources which are limited and tradeable). It's a rational system, and it works. Unfortunately, for it to work you have to keep in mind that not everyone wins. The market is only interested in certain items, and only those people who can provide those items are in a position to make any decent money. That said, if you're into crafting as a profession, it's a compelling system as it's modeled after a system we're all comfortable with - reality. To some extent, the early MMOs were actually in this vein. For Camp1 to work, you also need market tools to make it more viable.
Camp2 is more loosely defined and ,for the sake of identifiably, I'll just call it WoW-post vanilla. Your crafting skill is basically a secondary (or tertiary) XP bar. As you level your crafting up instead of unlocking new powers you buy at a class trainer, you unlock new items to buy/learn from your crafting trainer. Since this is on a personal level, these items need to be BoP. (You can't trade your powers to someone else, nor can you trade your items). It's on par with the FPS XP system (like Modern Warfare) where you get new guns as you level up.
In a completely pure world, camp1 is all BoE and camp2 is all BoP.
It's safe to say that camp1 can't work in SWTOR. Gear is given out all over, and without restriction or limitation. The only way to make professions would be a WAR system of consumables combined with Eve's BP restriction; which has proven to not be enjoyable for crafter or consumer. So, ruling out camp1, leads to a focus on camp2.
Again, the problem is, someone at Bioware made (and extremely poorly thought out) requirement that "crafting shouldn't be required".
Crafting is basically viewed as one of three "options", in regards to PvP, PvE, and Crafting. So, in some Bioware designer's mind, it made sense that doing PvP results in you excelling an PvP (Better PvP focused gear), doing PvE results in you excelling at PvE (PvE focused gear), and doing crafting results in... Nobody got that far. They just hacked the current system up and called it a day. You can't have "Crafting focused gear". It serves no purpose. There's no competition in a Camp2 system, so what would you be doing with it?
The only purpose on crafting is to produce items to excel at combat, or to provide vanity (excel at social if you will). Right now the social aspects of crafting (customs) are terrible. They're BoE, and they're just recolors (at best) or the exact same as items you can get in-game.
Making gear for alts is great. It's a nice way to have non-combat experiences in the game and in some cases to build social webs. It's just not a good foundation to base a part of your game that's generally important to many MMO players. To some extent, you can blame DAoC and especially the later incarnations of WoW for making Camp2-style crafting, where people feel it's now a secondary XP bar. One way or another though, I think the general consensus at this point is "I should craft to level to fulfill my character" and for that to happen, there needs to be a personally-compelling reason to craft, which their currently isn't, because Bioware has stated in writing that there should be no in-game bonus for crafting that you can't just get through some other method. People will rarely choose the irrational option (which in this case is to spend a huge amount of time and resources/credits to level a skill that results in no gain).
As an aside, Reverse Engineering is basically a really poorly thought out Camp1 feature, stuck in a Camp2 system; which is why it's so terrible. The idea is to create false limitations by using serendipity to limit production options. Unfortunately, it's as poorly implemented as it was conceived. If there was a fixed limitation (you're allowed to randomly get one item per level) it would work marginally, due to being enforced. As it is though, there's no limitation on production except for time and resource input. There is no skill or ability involved in the development or production capability. Just luck and sometimes patience. Since the system is OTHERWISE a Camp2 system, people just assume they have to crank through the crafting to "succeed" which means they're spending an inordinate amount of time and resources to produce.. nothing. Gear for alts basically, given the fact that the system was designed to deter people from trying to make everything to try to implement production limitations. So people get into the crafting skills and come to the realization "this system sucks".
TLDR (and no real news): Crafting in SWTOR is poorly thought out, and a direct result of conflicting designs and requirements. It will continue to be an eyesore until the requirements are made consistent.
My guess is they know this, knew it when they slapped this system together, and didn't really care to worry about it till an expansion.
I think this post pretty much complements mine nicely. I agree
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Well, SOME kind of Developer comments on crafting would be nice. Unfortunately, I agree with the smart "Dev ignore skill 400/400" because it is pretty clear they have not said two words about crafting or addressed what appears to be a pretty large discontent on these forums. I mean, where else do people go to voice their opinions about the game they pay for?
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Well, I suppose if we refer to the Rakata recipes and I could RE them forever, they SHOULD be pretty good, although I have not done that, PLUS if they follow the pattern of everythign else, they won't get any better really after being RE'd aside from adding 1 stat per incarnation.
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Well I was referring to Synth because I know it firsthand, although I have been told in conversations with others that most other crafts like Armor and Arms are pretty much the same.
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I don't know but I can think of DAOC, EQ2, Vanguard, and EVE right off the top of my head.
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I also realized part of the problem with PvP gear is that the pvp reward bags give you Tier TWO pvp Champion gear, which is WAY stronger than the Centurion gear. I mean, with 14 bags I got 7 pieces of T2 PvP (136 rating) gear. That really widens the disparity as well...I mean, I would assume the 2nd rank pvp gear should be something that should require a LOT of effort to get, but rather I have never bought a Centurion piece, as I have gotten most of the Champion level pieces already with minimal effort.
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TLDR
But on this point, did not not take any gathering skills as well? Are you buying mats off the GTN because you're such a hard core crafter that it beneath you to gather your own mats? I mean really what game lets you RE to get mats back while your grinding. Crafting here as by far the cheapest easiest experience in most MMO's.
Where did I say I don't have gathering skills? In fact, if you read my post, I am relatively certain that I said that I can only get the metal I need from missions that come ONE or TWO at a time at MOST, and give 2 or 4 pieces per mission. When you need 6 pieces of metal and 12 greens PER RE, and 1 recipe takes 25 REs to get...you CANNOT gather all of your own supplies.
Also, when I RE a first level purple to try and get the second tier purple, out of 8 green crystal, 4 or 6 green artifacts, 4 cortosis, 6 ciridium and 4 mandalorian iron, 90% of the time, I get 2 upari crystals back. THAT IS IT. So, the whole, you get mats back is a heap of ****. I RE'd about 20 pieces and got 2 mandalorian iron back and about 4 ciridium.
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Some suggested changes
1). Schematic drops from raids should be single use, i.e. give it to a guild m8 and he can craft only one for you and no more.
2). Raid gear from ops and hm fp's should be better than best crafted, then comes best crafted and then only slightly behind and weighted to pvp is pvp items
3). Increase the primary stats a bit when going up from green->blue->t1 purple->t2 purple
4). Put in set bonuses it for armour sets as its hard enough at the moment to get more than 2 or 3 pieces of the same armour
My personal thoughts on this..
1) No. I think that is a terrible idea. I DO like raid schematics though that yield even better gear for crafting. I do not mind interweaving between raid and crafting. However, some of the raid pieces should ONLY come from crafting from the raid drop schematics so that people NEED the crafters with the skills. Not in lieu of dropped raid gear that would be equal.
2) Yes. Exactly how it should work, although I think there should be a marked difference between level 50 dropped recipes that are TWICE RE'd to double purple and basic PvP gear from bags/commendations.
3) Yes. 100% agree. All stats should increase when upgraded.
4) Yes. 100% agree. I have long wished that crafted sets had set bonuses to make them even better and more desirable.
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For those who say that oh the blue and purple mats are SOO plentiful..trying REing to get the "best" recipes at 49/50...you will burn through stacks of them in NO time. Try getting more from missions that yield 2 or 4 pieces at the most and you can only have 2 missions that yield those mats (at MOST) at a time.
Further, for the person who said "oh I made 100k from crafting armor..." Really? Thats what you consider profitable? I spent close to 1 MILLION credits to get ONE recipe that was not even the one I wanted due to the random system.
Crafted gear is NOT the best or even close to it at any level, particularly at high levels. As several people told me in game today when I asked about the interest level in a piece of 50 Purple Superior armor...I was told "No thanks. I can get better gear by doing daily heroic quests and get 50 purple mods that are better."
A robust system would have way less of this commendation, drop and quest loot that is ABUNDANT, because otherwise, why bother having crafters? Oh, we don't want people to have to go to crafters for anything...well why have them then? In Vanguard, for example, even green crafted armor was useful and sold. There was very little quest/drop type armor and gear other than certain examples. The BEST can come from raids...that is fine. However, DEDICATED crafting that involves MASSIVE effort and investment should yield at least gear that is clearly better than anything except mid level raid gear, and at least on par with basic raid gear. CERTAINLY better than pathetically easy to acquire drops, quest and commendation gear.
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Yeah this sounds about right. I too have hoarded mats but trying to RE some high level recipes has burned through them..and for nothing honestly.
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Just wanted to drop in and acknowledge this thread as a great source of information and feedback.
We're actively monitoring it for your posts and comments.
As I mentioned before, we are working on improving and extending crafting and reverse engineering and your comments in threads like this one are very useful to us.
-- Georg
Well, I would love some feedback regarding the post I am regarding crafting in general, and more specifically Synthweaving and the balance/RE/overall utility issues.
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Is RE broke?
in Crew Skills
Posted
Personally I think the RE rate should NOT be increased. The REAL issues are the lack of utility in the items that get produced, the multitude of RE recipes that are useless, etc. Make a BETTER system, where bugs like duplicate RE success is fixed, make the resulting items better, i.e. 2x RE on a starting blue should get a SECOND stat increase on the 2nd RE from purple (1st level) to purple (2nd level), etc.
DON'T make it so RE is easier. Having every crafter who does not care about hard work and dedication be able to get the best recipes is a TERRIBLE idea. Improve the products and results from being a dedicated crafter, DON'T dilute the value of dedication by making it easier.