If you do not understand the information, or how the information was obtained, don't post this. Quick Hint: It doesn't mean, or even represent, what you think it does.

Hahaha. So when did you actually play Warhammer? It sure as heck wasn't near release. Did you ever try a City Siege back in the day? I'm guessing no. Many tried, few succeeded. The only thing that died were servers. No, they wern't direct mirrors (this has already been covered, thanks for keeping up), but the pure imbalance between these classes, even if they were not exact copies and just shared mechanics, was a bad joke AT BEST. Did you actually play Warhammer back in the day, or are you just trolling? I honestly want to know.

I love you. I've said it before. Look when EQ was big. Look at the percentage of homes with high speed internet. Look at the time that WoW launched. Look at how that percentage increased around that time. Lack of competition. Huge population increase.

Because the context of the question was based on how much content was in at launch. A new game vs. a mature game. I know the answer. It was rhetorical. But it was to prove a point. Content and Features <> Fun.

And what features are you speaking of?

Then why do players leave WoW? What's the motivation? Why did players leave EQ? The one thing WoW did was make the game more casual friendly. At launch, it had less content than EQ, but it made it more friendly and quest driven. What did SWToR do? Made it more story driven (a similar concept). Online games are not you're typical product. It's entertainment. You pay for fun. WoW had nothing innovative over EQ. It made it easier. It made it more casual. It made it more fun, yet didn't have half the content EQ had. So why did it work?

That's a terrible analogy and you know it. You discredit how long WoW has on SWToR because, why? It's a huge reason (not to mention no competition at the time WoW launched). There is only a finite of time a development company has. You pick out what you want, do that well, put in as much as possible before the money dries up, and then launch. It's how MMO's work. Having an extra 7 years for more content, bug fixes, new features, is enourmous. If you think the next game is going to launch with all the good features from EQ onward, with Voice Overs as well, think again. They'll do the same thing SWTOR did. They'll launch with as much as possible, and then hope they can patch fast enough to keep up.

Corp Por! Yea, that was real fun for anyone that started the game late. Nothing like a grey screen.

A better question would be how long was it in development. Yes, MMO's have come a long way, but nearly everything since the big bang for MMO's has been companies taking what was before it, doing as much as possible before they run out of money and then releasing. So what do they do? They decide on their path. What they want to be unique, and go with it. Get as much in as possible. And then, after launch, you put in everything else. Yea, it's been 12+ years since Everquest, and many games in betweeen, but that doesn't mean that you get everything from that time period in a game. This hasn't changed. Just gamers expectations because of the polish of those games that have had time to polish their product.

No, you are correct. But the benefits of the Order version of the "Mirrors" (I believe that is actually the term they used) was so ridiculous. I want to know what the credentials are of a "PvP Developer" for an MMO. I should start up a pretty website and contract myself out to companies. I can't do any worse.

Mirror classes in both games? Check. Mirror classes arn't mirrors (one side gets hosed)? Check. One stealth class that kills during a coold down (Witch Elves)? Check. Ranged class with a ton of utility that hits like a truck (Bright Wizards)? Check. Warzone that favors classes with knockbacks, killing them with environment? Check. Terrible Open World PvP at launch? Check. Bolster Systme (actually better the last time)? Check. Way to much CC? Check. If at first you don't succeed, move to another company and try again. http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/articles/44427.aspx - The similarities are creepy.

I could go through this thread and tell you who played a Sorc and who didn't based on the post. I bet I'd be right 90% of the time. It's a great move by Bioware. Not only did they leave Sorcs alone, but they nerfed their biggest bane, Burst Ops. Bravo Bioware. Way to keep 45% of your playerbase happy (that 45% being the Sorc players).

Lol, how's your Sorc/Sage going? If you think this game is/was balanced, you're: 1.) Playing one of teh out of whack classes 2.) A horrible PvP player who needs the crutch. Pick one.

I think the underlying message was find another server. I just rerolled. I'm EST and rolled on a West Coast server. Thing is packed at night for me (leveling up at least). MUCH better experience (I rushed to 50 on my Op).

50 Op here. Hyperspace Cannon. Nerf needed. I'll see if it was too much or too little. I've always been of the opinion that players who whine about needed nerfs occuring, not to mention ones that haven't even been tested yet, are even worse players than those that whine for the nerfs in the first place.

Yea, because obviously the same people that do the voice acting are responsible for: The UI. The PvP. The End-Game. Whatever else you want to do. Quit posting.

Yup. People need to accept that innovation in MMO's is nearly dead (not to mention subjective). From here until eternity, MMO's will consist of a whole bunch of copying, and a few twists along the way to make it unique.

Ah, Sandbox MMO's. The most fun games to read about, and usually the most boring to play. Although, ArchAge is supposedly looking ok at this point, so that may float your boat, but Sandbox games are few and far between for a reason. The almighty dollar.

Then please, enlighten.

The biggest flaw is the increase in population cap per server. Say at launch, HEAVY was 2000 players. Now, say that server had 2200 players on it. That site would report it as "HEAVY", give it a 3 (I think) and put it in it's formula. But let's say the cap rises, and now the HEAVY cap is 2500. That server is now "STANDARD". Heck, it could GAIN players, but the overall average of the servers would be lower without the population moving even an inch. As we've heard, the population caps on most, if not all servers were increased, so from launch, of course the aggregate is going to go down, because inherently, with the cap increase, not all servers kept their Population Designation, even though the poplulation could have stayed the same/even increased. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great site. I just wish people would stop misusing the information.

If you're going to post/read that, make sure you have a basic understanding of: a.) How they are obtaining the data b.) What it actually implies. I've seen the same people post this in regards to exact population numbers, and that's NOT what it is showing.

lol, what? I mean, I know the UI is crappy and large, but come on. What resolution are you playing on, 10x8? If you're saying that the UI, as pathetic as it is, is the reason you can show "situational awareness", there may be other problems at play.

Just glancing through the thread, but... Is everyone who has issues with the population in this thread rolled on the Republic side?

Yea. Because, you know, if they locked out faction creation on a server to balance it out that's, oh, I don't know, "Keeping people from playing the way they want to play". You'd have just as many complaining about that as they do the faction balance. There is nearly nothing they can do about it. (Don't say add incentives to the underpopulated faction. Ask Warhammer how that worked. Only thing that works is adding a more appealing race/class. Hi Blood Elves).

And you base this on? They raised the population caps, which inherently is going to up the actual load "classification" (not saying that it hasn't dropped, but I'm sure that contributed). And what servers are you talking about without heavy/full (again, some can be attributed to above)? 2 of the servers I played on were standard, and now hit Heavy during Prime Time. Let's try not to talk in such absolutes.