Halbe
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Posts posted by Halbe
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That doesn't address camping. Camping doesn't interfere with the normal flow of gameplay on a PVP server.
...remember that warning pop-up when you selected it...yeah, it was there for a reason.
This has come up in EVERY game that has had open world PvP.
1.) Someone camps lowbies.
2.) Someone brings it up on the forums.
3.) Someone posts the blurb above.
4.) Person doing the camping is repremanded in game (usually just a shove-off by the GMS).
5.) Elite Guards are now placed in even more areas because of people doing this.
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You obviously haven't read much of these whine posts. We keep telling all you uneducated sheeple that the whole arsenal line is built around TM as the primer and Unload/HSM as a finisher. So if TM is adjusted it throws EVERYTHING ELSE out of whack and would require major skill reworking. You're just pissed that some idiot can nuke you down with 2 buttons in a minimum of 5.6 seconds (RS is an instant) without you bothering to do anything about it. The spec can be boring if you only hit 1 button. Like I've said before and even posted up my generic rotation that a decent merc will use 5-6 abilities if not more on a target.
God, you remind me of a Sabetour in Rift.
"Any GOOD Sab will use more than just sticky bomb (can't remember the skill name) and detonate. We use LOTS of skills."
That's not the point. Get that through you're head.
I don't care how many buttons you COULD use.
The point is that it is perfectly plausible for a person using 1 button to, seemingly, put out as much DPS as some builds good rotations. There are reasons we don't have combat logs. I'm guessing this is one of them.
It's a broken skill. You keep defending it in the context as the entire rotation. Good for you. You use other skills.
That doesn't fix the fact that this one skill is broken.
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if merc gets any kind of nerf apart from a tracer missle dmg reduction im out.
increasing the CD is extremely retarded, our entire rotation will be destroyed
(if you think tracer missle is the only part of our rotation learn the class before you post.)
That's the problem, a mechanic like this is retarded because the actual ability to apply buffs/debuffs/proper rotation is damn near impossible to balance.
If it hits to hard, it's going to be abused as an end-all, be all attack, not to mention before building up you're actual other abilities, it hits pretty dang hard.
If it hits to weak, you're dependent on your "finishers" or reactive abilities to pop and attack, and you'll be at a distinct disadvantage if a player is paying attention.
If its too quick a cast time, players will just spam it.
If it's too long a cast time, players won't have time to build up before being killed.
Using one ability as a pre-req to an entire rotation is a dumb mechanic in PvP (ask Sabs in Rift).
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False.
Post like to so much as *1* thread, just ONE, which posits a valid issue and isn't just a whiny "nerf xxx" thread by a bad player.
Seriously, I challenge you or anyone else reading this. Post just 1 link to a "valid" nerf thread by a player who isn't "bad". I dare you. I double dog dare you.
I will rip that thread apart and prove how bad of a player they are in 5 seconds. 100% guaranteed.
Hell, I'll do you one better. Here you go:
1.) Pre 1.1, Operatives should have been nerfed. I'm a 50 Operative, Hyper Space Cannon, and there was not a class when stacking buffs I couldn't kill in 6 seconds if crits broke my way. Even then, You weren't getting far. Tell me why the nerf should not have happened.
2.) Tracer Missle Spam is retarded. I don't care if it's to set-up their other abilities. It's moronic, and the skill needs nerfed. It should be MMO PvP law, "Thou shall not have a class that has one and only one skill define it." Good ones don't do this, I get that, but the skill itself, outside of it's debuff/set-up, is moronic. It needs fixed.
The skill needs nerfed, the class needs it's mechanics fixed. Tell me why I'm wrong.
3.) Another MMO PvP Rule - YOU DO NOT TAKE AWAY CONTROL! You can not take away control from a character. You can't. It's moronic. When you're facing 6/8 Sorcs in a Warzone and you're trying to cross the bridge in Voidstar, good luck. One's gonna knock you off. Or into fire in Huttball. Or pulled/force pushed somewhere.
These abilities are just as bad as the buffed Op's pre 1.1. It's an instant kill. People whining for the nerfs are correct in one respec, it needs changed, because it's dumb. But their wrong in where they place the blame.
But I can work with that. You pointed out a flaw, be it incorrectly, and it's truely a problem. It's not an idea of a straight nerf, it needs changed though.
They are cries for nerfs that point out bigger issues with the games design/mechanics.
It's not anyones fault but yours if you can't identify them through the nerf cries.
And P.S. - Pre 1.1, I'd have smoked your ***. You'd better thank all those "Nerf Criers".
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The hyperbole in the analogy you used to compare classes in this game, is very telling of how ignorant/bad you are at this game.
Any supposed OPness of anything in game is almost always void if you are even a little not bad.
People dont top charts because of how amazing they are. They top charts because of how awful everyone else is.
Very nice, and what I would expect on these forums. Call the analogy a poor one without refuting it. If there was a way to roll a new forum avatar to be a better poster, I'd assume you'd do so now. You seem like that type of person to look for an advantage.
Not to mention the absolute hypocrisy of your post with regards to the first two sentences, and then the hyperbole you use in your last to stress your point. Well played. No refute, and yet use the same hyperbole as you accuse me of. 10/10.
Your post is a shining beacon of why MMO PvP now sucks.
It's you guys. Everyone defending this thread. Every one of you are ruining PvP.
You've accepted piss-poor.
Are there pathetic players that cry "NERF" at every corner? Sure there are. They are just as guilty. But I would rather hear 10,000 cries on the forums as long as 10 of them are correct in their arguments, instead of dead silence when there are obvious crappy mechanics and features like you suggest.
But to lump everyone in is moronic. Even past that, you're ruining the genre. You're killing PvP, and you don't care because at THIS moment, it's probably benefiting you.
Stop. Seriously, stop.
There are valid issues being raised on these threads.
From mechanics (Buff stacking should have NEVER made it to live), Warzone design (Huttball, really?), to class mechanics in said warzones (Please, one of you tell me you don't have an advantage as certain builds compared to others in Huttball. I Mean, a DRASTIC advantage), to the implementation of Resolve (DR anyone. It's like Frost Shock all over again), to class skills as a whole (for example, level an Op healer through PvP. You can seriously be nearly locked out of healing until lvl 30), Open World PvP (Illum, real fun, yea), to the RNG for gear progression (good idea there). I can go on if you'd like.
But no. You'd rather stick your heads in the sand. Accept crap. Don't worry, everyone will keep playing.
They will. And it will never get any better. Bravo guys. Bravo indeed.
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Good players can accept losses, learn from their mistakes, and analyze the weaknesses of other classes to the point that, with time and practice, they are able to take on those classes better.
Now, player skill is a factor, and you won't always win a fight if the other player is also good, but the last thing a good player does is whine on forums about the strength of other classes, nor do they think that a given class is unbeatable. Good players are not defeatists.
Good players always admit their own mistakes, even if only to themselves. "What did I do wrong there?" "Should I have stunned earlier?" "Next time I have to remember to save my interrupt for their heal, not their channeled attack, I can medpac that." etc.
Good players realize that they are not a "class". They are a "player". Different classes have different pros and cons. Each player has a particular style of combat they like. Good players try different classes (and ultimately, ALL classes) to see which one suits them best. They then work on learning not just the basics, but the nuances of playing that class, against the other classes. "How do I fight a BH?" "How do I fight a sorc?" Even: "How do I fight a Focus-spec Guardian?" They get specific. They get detailed.
tl;dr: 100% of Nerf threads are from bad players, because good players don't need to whine, they learn.
Tell you what.
I'm a terrible driver. I really am. I'm guessing you're better than me.
We'll race cars. For $1,000,000,000.
You get 10 tries. That should be enough for you to "learn" my tendencies. Learn about your car. How it handles. How it accelerates.
You'll get to learn about my car. All of it's features. It's strengths. It's weaknesses.
One catch. I get to race in a ferrari. You get a 91' Accord with a blown engine.
I mean, if you're that good, and can learn from your mistakes, the tools provided shouldn't matter, right?
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I will quit everytime I enter Huttball.
Then again, Huttball shouldn't really be considered PvP, so maybe a penalty isn't warrented.
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Just had it happen to us.
Didn't figure it out until they were at the force fields guarding the final doors.
We were defending, and then the alarm sounds. We look around with not an Imp in sight.
I've tried defending this game. I love the leveling aspect, but unless I find a good guild, I'm just playing until "The Secret World" comes out.
If I'm going to play a buggy, crap game, I'm going to play one that I EXPECT to be buggy and crappy. Not one I had expectations for.
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Why you hurt my feelings?
My point is, I don't think anyone who plays a Bounty Hunter right now really has a right to say other people aren't skilled. The skill cap to succeed with this class is the lowest I've ever seen in any MMO.
Sabs in Rift at launch would like to have a word with you.
And those were some TOTALLY skilled players as well, at least they wanted you to think that. And then, when they actually removed the retarded mechanics, miraculously they all rerolled RiftBlades or whatever they were called (warrior calling).
Because they were totally balanced as well and it took skill to play like everyone of them freaking did.
The MMO cycle of PvP continues on.
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sorcs/sages are trying to correct it because they have been playing the class, therefore, they know how the spells work.
Hell, we all know how they work.
Too freaking well.
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It isn't a mystery. It's common sense.
If I race my Kia Sorento in a Nascar race, guess what? I'm going to lose.
Now, I don't know anything about those cars. I don't know how fast they actually go. I don't know about the engine, the tires, nothing.
But I know my car is not nearly on the level to compete as theirs are.
Sure, you could tell me "L2DRIVE!!!!". Or, "YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE OTHER CARS WORK. YOU ACTUALLY HAD A CHANCE!".
Sure I did, if the driver didn't know what they were doing and ran into a brick wall. But if I'm just as good a driver as the other guys, they just have a better tool at their disposal to get the job done. On equal footing, all things aren't equal.
You don't have to have exact numbers in some cases. If you want me to come up with the Optimum DPS rotation for my Op? Yea, I'm gonna need to see some logs.
You want me to point out obvious issues? Just let me use a little common sense and prior experience, and I can do a damn fine job.
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I've said this before, but I still think it holds true:
I know, it isn't level 50 (OMG THAT'S WHEN BALANCE MATTERS!!), but not everyone is going to level each class to 50 to see the imbalance, and they don't have to if they have some common sense (I have a lvl 50 Op, so I'd love to talk about that as well).
BUT, go start 2 new characters. One Inq/Sage. One IA/Smuggler.
Get to level 10. Start leveling via the healing tree.
At level 14 (after you get sprint, I don't wanna see players without it in freaking Warzones. It should be a level 10 talent anyway) go PvP.
Yea, it's waaaay early in the game, but this will give you a general idea of where balance in this game currently is. Don't worry, I can verify that without a premade group, these imbalances hold true at level 50, both in PvE and PvP.
I'm guessing most players that rolled a Sorc "healer" won't make it passed level, eh 25 as an Op healer.
You'll then see how much of a crutch the class actually provides.
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Never take anything serious someone says about a class they don't play.
Then how can a Sorc say they aren't over powered compared to other classes?
Goes both ways.
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Level up a healer Operative/Smuggler through PvP.
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It's been my experience that anyone who posts the following responses:
"You don't know all the classes"
"I hope they don't listen to the crybabies"
"You need to L2P"
Are the WORST players when it comes to said issues.
For a good majority of the players on this board, this isn't our first MMO. For many of us, we've PvP'ed in many of those. Most sensible players like this, who have seen this type of stuff, are actually pretty good at identifying what's really borked in PvP.
No, I haven't played all the classes to 50. But I, like many other PvP'ers from other games, can identify "unbalanced" when we see it.
It's a talent we use called common sense. It's just something that's few and far between on these forums.
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Again with the fifteen times shut down video? Oh lol...
Sad.
I assume you're making fun of my video reference? It's hard to see with all the fail in your post blocking my view.
I saw in the other thread where you tried calling the guy out for being in a premade. If you watch that video and can't realize that it is a PUG from the git-go, you're not nearly the player you think you are.
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he forgot the part where arsenal mercs are glass cannons and have almost no utility to escape
THAT's what you took from that?
This, right here, is the problem.
Players have been conditioned to fear the "nerf bat". They disregard obvious problems and produce strawman arguments to try to validate their stance.
I don't care that they have no utility to escape right now. That's not the initial problem. The problem is, and there is a YouTube video out there right now that shows this, you really only need one button to be successful. That's it.
That is not right. It is not balanced. Balancing does not always == Nerf. You need to balance the skill in question within the class. Does that mean nerfing one skill and doing nothing else? No. That means taking the class on a hole, removing the issue in question, and figuring out what else needs to be done to alleviate the problem.
You're trying to defend the idea that standing in one place, hitting one button, is acceptable. It is not. I don't care that they ahve no utility to get away at this point. Fix the problem, identify others. Don't knee-jerk and just nerf the one ability. Make sure everything else is on point as well.
Oh, they aren't just a one-button pressing turret? So now how to be balance in the classes other abilities to make sure they are still a viable option?
Pointing at another issue and saying, "This is why you can't fix that problem, because of this problem." is just assinine. Fix both problems.
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Found this on the FoH board (I'm not a poster there, just love the banter)
If they don't do the easy thing and nerf Sorcs -OR- the hard thing and buff pretty much everyone else, then the end-game (bad pvp or lame raids, take your pick, wheeee) doesn't have a chance to thrive. Easy content is boring, but any "hard content" will have to be balanced around having 2 Sorc healers, since a raid with 2 Sorcs will make an encounter balanced for 2 Ops look playschool-easy. I'm not saying Op healing is unmanageable, I've solo-healed Bonethrasher HM as an Op, but there is a huuuge disparity (20% +/- 5%) between it and Sorcerer healing and that is just in the raw numbers.
Sorcerers have tools that make them even better for non-quantitative reasons. First of all, they have shields. In a worst-case example, imagine a boss that can hit for 25k with all damage reduction buffs in-play and a fully geared tank has 24k. You simply cannot beat that theoretical encounter without a shield. There are of course many realistic scenarios that are similar (Soa HM/NMM for instance), but clearly not as pronounced. Second, AOE healing. While it's an easy part of the encounter no matter what, the healing difficulty when falling down the stairs on Soa is laughable with a Sorc and pesky with 2 non-sorcs. Third, they just all around have more utility with grabs/kbs/sprint and better hard CC (Ops aren't bad at soft CC though). Speaking of pvp-only comes the issue of interrupts. Ops are out of commission after an interrupt on their main heal unless they have TA up. The only thing that really screws up a Sorc's ability to heal is interrupting Innervate, which is non-intuitive to do and hardly anyone in a pug would ever do it. BH healers fair well in pvp too, but have nowhere near the output of sorcs; heavy armor and interrupt immunity is enough to put Ops to shame. Stealth does not come close to making up for a single thing listed in pvp.
I'm sure the DPS class balance is just as embarrassing and I'm almost positive it's a major reason why they haven't released a damage meter yet. Sure concealment Ops had it coming, but they deserve to lose a lot of Op subs after the nerf, since it's really not fun for the unlucky receiver of the nerfbat once the circus is over. Concealment should have never made it to live in the state it did, I don't even have to say how retarded it is to be able to do 75% of someone's life routinely and occasionally kill them out-right if you have a few buffs stacked. Meanwhile, tracer missiles and sorcs are still untouched and unmentioned in official posts. Could you imagine the forum rage after the post detailing how a T2 BH simply spamming tracer missile outdamages a T2 lethality op doing a proper rotation?
I am not even someone who believes that perfect balance is necessary for a good game (except for maybe the whiniest of casuals) as long as each class is at least the best at something. EQ was awesome. Vanilla WoW was awesome in my opinion too. That is just not the case here. Here you have Sorc and BHs in pretty much every good makeup while you're often shooting yourself in the foot by bringing melee and non-sorc healers. This whole game is a travesty of good design and balance. Ilum is obviously an ego trip; the only way such a **** hole could be designed is for a developer to think they can do no wrong and that anything they try will work. It's ridiculously bad and yet the incentive to put up with it is so high that people pretty much have to do it anyway if they want to progress quickly.
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Faceroll as in; omg lightnig spam
or: Omg i died to lightning
Clarify what you mean by "face-roll class".
Face roll as in, well, easy.
Case and Point - I recently rerolled a Smuggler (Scoundrel Healer Spec). Level 29.
Playing Voidstar. They break the door. Level 16 Sorc is lagging behind. I attack.
She just stood there and healed through my damage. Literally, didn't move. Didn't even attack me. Just healed through it. No, not through it, past it. Interrupt? Block spell casting? Nothing.
SHe still had about, eh, just under half force left. I was out of energy, as I burned it trying to kill her. She attacks me, and I can't heal through it.
She then sprints off.
I don't expect to kill many people in my healing spec 1v1. I really don't. But I also shouldn't have another class outheal my DPS and out DPS my healing, with what seemed as though little to no resource management on their part, while I'm trying to keep mine in an acceptable range for maximum regen.
Yea, I know, not level 50 (I have a 50 Op, so I'd be more than happy to talk that as well), but I'm just pointing out how easy they are to play, even at early levels compared to other classes.
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The point of pvp is it is not balanced around 1v1 when will people get that. everyone thinks that if you cant fight another class 1v1 then you are not working. b/s a healer should be able to heal and get away from people but not do a tun of dmg. they should be able to help get a kill or attack in some way but they should be healing.
stop trying to think that skill is being good at 1v1. it is not.
I hate this freaking argument.
Then what is it? Working wtih other classes? What if you're composition has 10x the synergy as the group you're going against? Does that make you more skilled?
When you are talking about balancing classes, you have to remove skill from the equation. You need to remove groups from the equation (at first).
The first level of balance should be, "If two players of equal skill face off, what happens?". You then add other variables like group size and environment to that equation, making sure neither totally skews the balance.
I know, it's fun to make a statement and not actually provide any answers. Saying balance isn't based on "1v1" is that type of fun, but then what's it based around?
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http://imageshack.us/f/842/screenshot2012012215355.jpg/
315k Healing + 270k DPS
And there was another Sorc in this WZ that had damn near 400k healing.
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It's funny how about 75% (or more) of the posts that state how Sorcs are fine include the word "We".
Gee, wonder why you're against a nerf.....
Fact is, anyone whose ever PvP'ed before can seperate the crying from the actual issues. I'm an Op, and I knew something was coming. Too harsh? I think so, but I knew it was going to happen.
Any of these "We" people who will honestly be shocked when this nerf hits is either:
1.) Oblivious to PvP and what mechanics actually matter.
2.) Delusional.
Seriously, I'm guessing most of you aren't that good. Some of you, sure. But the majority of PvP players are bad.
What the Sorc class does is take a bad player and make them, well, pretty good. It doesn't take a really good player and make them great. They do have a ceiling, it's not as though they can make a great player invincible. But, for a good percentage, it makes them seem much better than they are.
It's a crutch. The good players won't notice much of a nerf, if it's just reducing the abilities that have the utility, not the utility themselves.
This is all contingent, of course, with Gabe knowing how to balance PvP. You guys still have hope. In Warhammer, they nerfed the burst stealth class (W.E.) and left the ridiculous ranged class overpowered for quite a while (BW). Somethings may never change.
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That sounds like your numbers versus theirs. Not knocking what you said, you sound like you have put thought in to it. The issue is their numbers show a downward trend and you are claiming that that is incorrect. You are asking me to accept some things I cannot (not that I do not want to). Numbers mean everything without something being applied to them. I will agree that once BW releases numbers we can have an argument but as long as sites like this, that take information from what is available exists, it is the best information we have.
When we see some math that backs up your assertions I am all ears. Seriously. I do not care how it ends up one way or another. I love watching these types of arguments. Once the server cap is changed we should see a different trend right?
It's not my numbers vs. theirs, it's pretty much directly from their site. See the previous page for the quote from the site's creator.
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Just for arguments sake... what does it mean?
It's basically an average of the population "STATUS", not the population themselves.
The creator of the site has posted multiple times on this forum the same thing, "They don't have the population numbers."
What they do is weight each option, Down = 0, Light = 1, Standard = 2, Heavy = 3, Very Heavy = 4, Full = 5, and then create an average based on this.
Now, the graph people always site is the graph with the Y-axis having 800, 600, ect.. and it's called a population graph. It isn't (as far as I've seen), what you actually think.
It's basically the same thing, just with the different axis.
Now, the biggest issue with this is if the server caps change (as they have already).
Say a server had 2200 players and was considered Heavy (the line is 2000 players). But now Bioware changed it. The new line is 2500.
But the servers population actually went up to 2400. It's still Standard now, and reduced teh average of all the servers, even though the population increased.
It's a good site. People just misuse or misunderstand the information.
Cant be banned for PVP harassment?
in PvP
Posted
You and I differ greatly on our definition of PvP.