Ya, it's all fluff damage. You had 19 kills, while a Sorc at not even 300k got 22 kills. Most of your damage was probably dots and flame thrower. The kind of damage your putting out is only nice in normal warzones. That won't even fly in ranked. DOT damage doesn't get the job done. Need more burst for PVP to be viable.

Is it just me or does anyone else find id somewhat confusing that they named our longer casing heal rapid scan and our shorter casting heal Healing Scan. Kind of misleading.

I actually mentioned that the stealth class defensive cool downs aren't that great, but they have stealth, which is played differently.

Vicious Slash hits pretty damn close to rail and that has no cool down what so ever. How about discharge and maul as well. Rails are a little bit over 5k crits with at short cool down of 6 seconds in pyro spec. Also, how many PTs now are even playing Pyro with how bad they suck meaning rail won't even have that short of a cool down. Furthermore, if they are playing AP, then that's not their go to ability like it is in Pyro. Force scream has a shorter cool down then rail shot does in general and will hit just hard if not harder. As Pyro is currently, rail shot is pretty much the only ability that does good burst. How many other classes have other abilities right now that hit harder then our rocket punch, flame burst, and thermal? I would say pretty much every DPS class. Here is a problem with Pyro. Yes, rail shot is only on a 6 second cool down if someone is skilled into pyro, and before the nerfs thermal was just as important in PVP. Besides those two abilities, we had flame burst and rocket punch in between. Rocket punch was the only ability out of those 4 that didn't get a nerf (flame burst didn't technically either, the dot it left did). Out of the 4 abilities we mainly used for the Pyro build, 3 of them were nerfed. As people have mentioned above, not only did this effect the PTs, it also effected the Pyro mercs with the nerfs. As BH's as a whole, each advance class only has 1 tree they can DPS on that's worth it, and the PTs tree is not really viable. Mercs can go arsenal, but the other two specs they have suck. Tanking on the PT is viable, but some of us may not want to tank.

The Pyro for both Mercs and PTs are probably the worse spec to play in the game right now. I didn't make to much of big deal about it because you guys have another tree that is viable. Me saying stuff about Pyro here implies the same goes for Mercs for the most part. Also, my intention was to compare the melee classes to each other. Playing ranged is a different play style. I do actually have a Merc, and right now, I feel it's probably one of the more fun classes to play for casual PVP. I enjoy my Merc the most out all the 8 classes.

I will correct that, thank you.

Here are the major issues now with the class in my opinion. 1. The class became pretty much a full blown melee class due to nerfs from the past. One major issue now I have with the class is a lack of a gap closer. We do indeed have a grapple, but the cool down for it is 45 seconds. This is a huge disadvantage to this class compared to all the other melee classes which either have a force run with shorter cool downs, or multiple leaps shorter cool downs. Also, why Hydraulic Override is a nice feature, all they have to do is CC, run, then kite. 2. Lack of burst now for a melee class. I consider most of the damage the PT does now as fluff damage. in other words, their dots are doing most of the damage, but dots always lose out to burst in this game unless you can kite. PTs / Vanguards aren't suppose to be a kiting class, their suppose to be a melee in your face class. Before people start talking about the rail shot and it's 6 second cool down, I will also argue that all of the other melee classes have "various" abilities that hit just has hard as rail shot. Moreover, all other melee classes have abilities that hit about 1.5 - 2k more than rail shot. Playing Pyro now is not viable imo. If you look at the AP for DPS, it can still put out decent overall damage, but it's mostly fluff damage. Going up against other equally skilled pvpers in 1 v 1 s will probably require you to have a healer behind you if you want to win (this isn't really a 1 v 1 with a healer healing you). I would like to add one last thing here as well. Ranged now can burst better then a PT. With such a long cool down on our gap closer and lack of burst, we'll die to ranged most of the time. I'm ok with ranged having burst, but give us ways to get to them in shorter intervals and give us more burst to put on them when we do get to them. 3. Defensive cool downs versus other melee classes defensive cool downs. Most other classes have multiple shields or cool downs they can pop in relatively short intervals. These are what the PTs got compared to other classes. PT: Energy Shield: 2 min cool down - Reduces damage by 25% for 18 seconds. Hydraulic Override: Increases movement speed by 30%. Can not be rooted or snared while activated. Lasts 6 seconds (this only a defensive cool down when trying to get a way. Note it doesn't reduce any damage). Kolto Overload: When activated at 30% health, Kolto overload will rapidly heal you up to 30% of your maximum life (This ability does give you a 30% of your life heal, it keeps you healed, or tries to, keep you healed to 30% of your life.) 3 min cool down Marauder: Clock of Pain: 1 min cool down - reduces all damage by 20% and lasts 10 seconds to 30 seconds. Saber Ward: Increases ranged and melee damage by 50% and reduces all damage from tech and force attacks by 25%. Note, that the increased defense chance means people completely miss the target. Undying Rage: Up to 1 minute cool down. Can be shorter if skill points are put into it. Consumes up 50% of the marauders health, but it reduces up to 99% damage for 4 seconds. Force Camouflage: Stealth for 4 seconds and reduces damage taken by 50%, also increases movement speed by 30%. Cool down 45 seconds. Juggernaut: Saber Ward: Increases ranged and melee damage by 50% and reduces all damage from tech and force attacks by 25%. Note, that the increased defense chance means people completely miss the target. Cool down 3 minutes. Saber Reflect: Reflects all "single target" force and ranged damage for 3 seconds. Cool down 1 min 30 seconds. Endure Pain: Increase your maximum health by 30% for 10 seconds. Cool down 1 min 30 seconds. Enraged Defense: Lasts 10 seconds. Every time the Jugg takes damage, it spends rage to heal the Jugg for 3% of his maximum life. Cool down 45 seconds (NOTE: I could be misinterpreting this, someone feel free to correct me). Operatives: Evasion: When activated, removes all dots or effects. Increases changes to dodge all ranged and melee attacks by 100%. Lasts 3 seconds. Cool down 1 minute. Shield Probe: Lasts up to 15 seconds and absorbs a moderate amount of damage (Note: once the damage has been absorbed, the shield probe is no longer effective meaning it might not last the full 15 seconds). Cool down 45 seconds. Exfiltrate: Rolls the operative forward 12 to 6 meters. Increases chances to dodge ranged and melee attacks by 30%. No cool down, but consumes 25 energy. Cloaking Screen: Can enter stealth while in combat. Cool down 2 minutes. Assassin: Deflection: Increase ranged and melee defense by 50%. Cool down 2 minutes. Force Shroud: Removes all hostile effects (dots and what have you), and increases the chances to resist force and tech attacks by 100%. Cool down 1 minute. Force Cloak: Can enter stealth while in combat. Cool down 1 minute 30 seconds. From observing the above cool downs, it's pretty easy to see why a PT would be at more of a disadvantage versus the Jugg and Mara. Even though the Operatives and Assassins don't have the best of defensive cool downs either, they are a stealth class which are played an entirely different way. That said, the Operatives and Assassins shouldn't be compared to heavily with the other melee classes. Advantages and Disadvantages of PT cool downs: Kolto Overload: Advantages - heals you. Disadvantages - Heals you up to 30% of your life, but can't be triggered until you're at 30% of your life. in other words it doesn't really heal you, it tries to sustain your life at 30%. Also, most people have either a finisher or an ability that can hit for over 30% of your life except of course a PT. Hydraulic Override: Advantages - Can't have your movement impaired for six seconds. Disadvantages - People can still CC you through this ability meaning you just wasted a cool down. However, this is still a nice ability and doesn't really have any disadvantages. Energy Shield: Advantages - Lasts 18 seconds and reduces damage by 25%. Disadvantages - It doesn't increase ranged or melee defense like all the other classes' shields do, meaning it doesn't increase your chances of dodging anything. While it mitigates damage, I would of preferred this to have about the same effects Saber Ward. Not only does Saber Ward mitigate the same amount of damage as Energy Shield, but ranged and melee attacks are both going to miss about half the time while Saber Ward is active. The new ability Shoulder Cannon In my opinion, compared to the other classes, this was probably the most worthless ability out of all the classes. Again, I place this under fluff damage because that's all it's doing. Furthermore, once you've spent your entire volley, it's a 1 minute and 30 second cool down before the volley begins to fill again. Suggestions: A few things can be done to help DPS PT's. First, they need to have a shorter gap closer. Second, they need to have a little bit better survivability. Lastly, either Pyro or AP, or both, need to have at least 1 ability that hits harder then they already do. Most classes have "various" abilities that hit as hard a DPs PTs abilities and then some. If we're going to be taking this kind of burst, we should be able to dish out this kind of burst. Also, for classes that can kite such as the Mercs and Sorcs, being able to put a lot of damage on them fast is key. Right now, it's all going to be fluff damage. Anyways, I'd like to hear what other people's thoughts are on the matter to. Thanks for taking the time and reading my winded post. Hope this made some sense.

Ya, I just looked, I always forget about the clicky. Regardless, this person is still not the top DPS for the fight and is far from it.

Ya, Pyro sucks now, but Arsenal is a blast. It's what I've been playing.

Just jumping from person to person buffing them would be awesome. I wish they had a class like this that would give a tad bit of healing and buff the heck out of the other classes. Would be a real fun class to play imo.

The class is way fun now thanks to all the changes. I switched my PT to a tank and now DPS on my merc. I've got to say, it's been a blast. I might not always be number 1 in Damage at the end of the match, but the class has so much utility now, it's just fun to play. I just want to say, I'm glad Bioware made these changes. The merc isn't OP when it comes to damage, but it's OP when it comes to fun factor.

Nothing wrong with a PT tank man. Their pretty good. However, Jugs are pretty good as well. Not saying one is better than the other. They both have their ups and downs. I prefer the PT because of the ranged taunts. The only thing I dislike about a PT tank is how long our shield cool down takes to come off cool down. Besides that, it's a great tank class. It has nice self healing and other things I love about it. Hope this helps.

This person is also surpassingly the lead DPS on 16 man H/M Titan 6. I looked, not there....

I don't sort by class, I just look at all of them and I see a gunslinger at the top on my screen. You are certainly not up at the top, rank 1, on that fight. Furthermore, I don't even know what your PT is named. If your name is Ka'sumi, then you are using the double relics and I can tell from the logs. That's is the highest PT parse for 16 man HM.

Unless I'm missing something here, you just linked and are trying to argue that this PT ranked number 3 in this STORY MODE should be looked at?. Get real here, that's a story mode, not a hard mode. That is something you can't consider for DPS as people won't have the proper gear at those levels. Second, if you look at the logs from the Gunslingers who are on top in HARD MODE, you can see that they didn't use the Flyby exploit. They did, however, have the relic exploit, but so did the PTs who ranked high in the 16 man HM. In other words, they both used the same exploit, and the PT was still far below the DPS of the Gunslingers. You sir, are misconstruing the logs. I guess if that's what it takes to make you feel like a "good" player, then so be it.

Also for the record, you can say good player this and bad player that, but a good player isn't going to be content with rolling one of the subpar DPS classes. A good player wants to be good, yes? A good player also makes smarter decisions, and right now, the smarter decision is to roll a class that will out DPS a PT which half the classes can with little effort. Stubborn and lazy players, on the other hand, make poor decisions like refusing to reroll new classes when their class gets nerfed. That doesn't mean they're bad, they're just stubborn and lazy. I think that has been exemplified a lot here by your posts. Am I complaining a lot on the BH forums? Yes I am because this was the class I wanted to play the most since the launch of the game and we've been getting the shaft via nerfs since the game launched. I won't dispute that some of the nerfs were needed, but what they did to the PT with the last nerfs was uncalled for. We're now a melee class that does mostly fluff damage. Our upfront burst compared to all the other melee classes is horrible. I have all classes on imp side currently at 55. My least favorite class to DPS on in raids is an Assassin followed by a PT.

Really 3k? Show me your 3k on any of the H/M S&V or TFB, and that doesn't include Kephess. I can, however, show you 3k parses from mercs if you would like to see. The only person fooling themselves here is you. Look, I'm not disputing if your a good or bad PT, I'm just saying, if your going to roll a DPS class, roll the classes that are putting out more DPS. PTs aren't there anymore. Can they still be used, yes. Can you still clear raids, yes. Are they the best DPS, no. Are they viable? That all depends on the needs of the raid group. If the group doesn't have any maras, or snipers, then PT would be the last thing I would pick up. They offer nothing to benefit the group as a whole versus some of these other classes with debuffs or buffs. What do you do besides sit there and DPS that helps the group out? To the original OP. If you like the play style of the PT then go for it. If you think you would like the option of having a class that can both DPS or tank, then a PT is a nice choice. However, I would consider a Jugg as well. Both PTs and Jugs are nice for that option. If you, however, are looking to do straight up DPS, you should be rolling a mara or a sniper.

I have a blast in warzones on my PT tank.

Thanks.

I know I get the Serendipitous relic, but should I really be getting any of the other DPS relics? If so, which one? I was thinking of using the Matrix cube until I saw some of these other threads saying to PVP relics. Anyone please.

This fight you're linking looks like The Writhing Horror? Am I reading that wrong? The DPS was 2824.77 on that fight while number 1 spot at the time of looking up TFM 8M/HM was 3427.26. The record holder does over 500 more DPS than the PT. Even if you took 2nd place, you're still 342 below DPS. "If you ain't first, you're last!!"

My point was more or less was to say that tanks shouldn't be hitting that hard... Period.

I don't really like dummy parses, as they don't really show you much.

That's right because no one else here obviously knows how to play their PTs other than you right? Maybe you shouldn't assume either that people complaining don't know how to play their PTs. Sorry, but the DPS PT is not in a good spot right now. Our toons were originally a hybrid class that was both melee and range. We got turned into a melee class, and now all we do no is what I refer to as "fluff" damage. We have no burst what so ever compared to the other "melee" classes. People may still do well in warzones, but it's only because they dot everything they see then focus on a person after they have like 4-5 dots out. It's dumb. Furthermore, go look at TORporase and see how much the other classes are parsing compared to the PTs. It's pretty obvious when the other classes are out damaging the PTs by around 400-600. Show me a parse on S&V HM where a PT is within 250-300 of the top parse. Not going to happen.

Just do yourself a favor and reroll a different character. You'll be a lot more happier. The amount of work you have to do now compared to the other classes to keep your DPS up isn't worth it in my opinion. I'm not for all the easy specs, but when your class on average is probably doing about 400-600 less DPS compared to all the other DPS classes, it's time to reroll.