Things are getting pretty desperate when we're trying to build TOR up by comparing it to the worst the industry has to offer.

I'm not quitting because I dislike this game, but after years of mmo gaming I just can't squeeze much enjoyment out of yet another generic mmo title. TOR is the <just another shooter> of the mmo industry. A game designed by a committee of marketing suits rather than creative minds, with the intention of bolting together the most popular elements of the genre and throwing it at existing demographics. And there's nothing wrong with that - if a product can sell then sell it, and I'm sure TOR will do ok. I don't think it has a chance of going up against a certain game that has had years of time and several hundreds of millions in profits to sink into its development, not when it brings nothing new to the table. WoW has this part of the genre sewn up - devs should accept that - and it'll only be 'beaten' after it's died of old age. Yet TOR could probably carve a niche out for itself from a loyal following, and I can see it having the same sort of future as Lotro - ticking along nicely for a good few years with a modest but worthwhile playerbase, possibly by going F2P/MT based at some point. Good luck to it, but just as I couldn't stick playing yet another COD, I can't play this. I'm sure there'll be enough that will to keep it going, though.

Unsubbed. I've no strong feelings against the game, I'm just bored of this format now, and TOR is nothing new. It's a fairly average but fairly enjoyable title that I might have stuck around for had it been released 2-3 years ago. Still, I don't think it'll fail. I'm pretty sure it'll carve out a loyal niche following and enjoy the sort of 'success' that something like Lotro has.

I just unsubbed due to boredom with the game, and no, it's not because I overdid it. I was in day two of early access and have only just hit lvl 40. If anything I couldn't bring myself to play it much. And it's not because the game is particularly bad in any way - it's just too much like too many mmo's I've played before, and not a whole lot better. I honestly can't see what makes this any better than the likes of Lotro or Rift. So, it's not that I have anything against TOR, but I've been here and done this too many times already. I'll take an interest in mmo's again when the industry has moved on.

I just unsubbed without a problem - only took a few seconds. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

No, YOU have never played during an mmo launch before. Sure, I've seen some abysmal launches with extended server downtimes and the like during the first week - and I've also seen each and every one of those particular games go on to fail spectacularly. I've never seen a polished, competant product take their servers down for 2 consecutive days because they couldn't combine maint and content launch.

Did I get this right? The servers down for eight hours one day and then down for six hours the next? I don't think I've ever seen that in an mmo - usually server downtime for new content launch is combined with scheduled maintenance, and extended for an hour or two. It's a tad annoying when it occurs during the day, yet I can't say I'm that bothered about it. Yet it is a fairly average game, and if I keep finding servers down during my time off work I'm not sure if I'll bother justifying the cost of the monthly sub any longer.

As a player on a pvp server it doesn't bother me in the slightest, though I have to laugh at those posing as 'hardc0re' pvp'ers here - if that was the case, you'd be subbing to a sandbox, full-loot mmo. There are no hardcore pvp'ers in a themepark mmo, so stop being silly.

Wrong! Open world pvp is at its worst when it congeals around spawn/hub points and breaks down into camping and ganking - it then ceases to be 'open world.' Doesn't tend to be as much of a problem in sandbox mmo's with rules like full loot, because people will tend to stay on the move for safety. But in a themepark mmo the open world pvp needs enforced dev structure to keep the pvp fluid and truly open-world. In an mmo with no hard death penalty there's no mechanism to deter excessive camping, so the pvp system breaks down as gankers take full advantage of carebear protection. Honestly, why some folks whine for 'hardc0re' pvp in a themepark mmo is laughable - you're playing the wrong game.

If Ilum could be a potential endgame for you why on earth are you here complaining just a few weeks after launch? It could be months before that zone starts to fill. It was exactly the same in Lotro's equivalent lvl 40+ pvp zone, the Ettenmoors - this was dead for at least a few months after launch, then started to get very busy for years afterwards.

Exactly. Consider EvE Online, whose single server could handle 40,000 players maximum (at least it did when I played it a couple of years back). Yet CCP claimed a subsciption figure of around 200,000 at that time. If TOR's sub figure is also 5 times higher than the peak player amount, then that 1.5 million doesn't look surprising at all.

Probably, and it's a shame for the mmo genre that players keep holding their candles to WoW, when some mmo's have had the potential to be so much more than they were given continual profits and development. Sadly, our greed for instant gratification demands an instant WoW-killer straight off the shelf, and that's probably totally impossible, given that no developer could ever hope to secure enough investment to produce such a game without having made the profits to do so.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you could bet your arse no developer could secure enough investor finance to develop a game that could rival WoW for depth, scale and polish right from the start.

I wonder just how much profit WoW has made and how much has been sunk back into its continual development, and how much that overall development cost has been. I also wonder if it would be possible to develop a pre-launch game that could rival that scale of development without having yet received a single cent in sales.

Yep, he has a zero-tolerance policy towards overly-opinionated jerks and morons whose egoes override their intellect and sense of respect. Should be given a medal, imo.