It seems like they are looking at HPS capacity alone and that is not a good decision in regard to balancing the healers. It has to be holistic. Raid utility, burst, AOE healing, ease to play.... these are all things that absoutely have to be considered when balancing healers. HPS is not a cut and dry a metric in a way that DPS is (or at least, DPS is moreso cut and dry than hps). And none of their process showed that they considered that, it showed they saw the PVP issues with sorcs (which were meritable) and did a nerf that maks zero sense for PVE. The Sage nerfs are less awful than I thought they'd be, but there is no more burst on Sages now. If a raid is dying, odds are, a Sage isn't going to save the raid group as is.

Has anyone else been finding more and more errors with the deco map as they decorate? It's honestly jarring to see just simple things off. One row of fountains the hook is slightly leaning by 1 unit one way. The left raised circular large hook in the main area is off center by a couple units. One side of the green hooks lining the courtyard is 1 unit ahead of the other. Leaving aside all of the visual gaffes, the hooks are just not symmetrical even when there is zero reason they shouldn't be. It's really annoying and making me have to individual recheck every single deco I have placed. And that's almost inexcusable since hooks are the easiest features of an SH to alter! Did no one test the manaan stronghold? Did someone in the deco community come in and truly play with this? Apparently it wasn't even on PTS according to some. In case anyone wants to voice reason for the return of a public pts with more open discussion and the end of this Area 51-esque secrecy with PTS, this stronghold is exhibit A. :rolleyes:

I thought of another one: The windows need to be clear on the upper level. The tealish color does nothing to the stronghold. It isn't as much of a benefit to the stronghold as was probably intended. It doesn't match the exterior all that well, and it really doesn't help viewing out the interior. Recolor the windows to a transparent normal color, like the glass windows in all of the other strongholds. Also, please examine each of the hooks you placed and check their symmetry. Some of them are off, notably the green rows in the courtyard do not match up perfectly, the left circular platforms large hook is notably off, and one row of the hooks in the fountains is a little off.

Considering the megathread in General is basically a flame fest, I decided to make a post in this thread SOLELY for the suggestion of ways bioware could make things better for the Manaan SH. Bioware said they're going to listen to us and that they want feedback, and I'm going to take their word for it. I figure if it's in one place, with limited hatespew, there's a decent chance they take some ideas, maybe implement some of our suggestions in 5.4 or later, and make manaan better. Keep hate and non-constructive criticism off here. Also lets frame the discussion of the problems in ways they could correct them. Also, don't discuss future stronghold possibilities here- only about ways that the current Manaan SH could be improved. If you agree with ideas and want to show support, just quote and /sign in a post. Here are my suggestions: 1. Create Ceiling Hooks in the Underwater North and South Rooms It would really improve the stronghold if we could control the lighting in these two rooms. Right now, things are forced to be dim because a wall small light cannot brighten up the room. I get that the point of the underwater lighting was to create a KOTOR-esque Hrakert Rift research station vibe, but the space for a large ceiling hook is there in each room. Please modify what is current a wall small into a ceiling large hook so if a player desires he may lighten the hook. This should be an easy swap to improve the sh. 2. Place a Submarine Taxi instead of a Brown Panel for Entry/Exit Instead of a brown panel, why don't you place a submarine taxi off the edge of the stronghold. It's not a major improvement, but it'd fit way better aesthetically and is an easy way to make people happier. Also, we know the implementation of this is already in game, since Nar Shaddaa has it in the form of a taxi. And the submarines are rendered out the west window. Plus, it'd bring something to the waters edge of the stronghold past the centerpiece hook, which right now is very empty. This shouldn't be a huge change, just reskin the taxi from Shaddaa with the skin of the submarines in the stronghold, and place it in the water off of the entrance platform. This is also an improvement that doesn't take that much work. 3. Do Not Reduce the Hook Count- Expand the Courtyard I know the hook count is tight, but it'd be problematic to reduce it now. The best option is to expand access in the main area by making an archway through the wall below the starship hook so that people can access the area to the east with the submarines. The pictures of the glitch show that that area is fully tangible and created, and not just some animation designed for the windows on the upper level. Make a bunch of hooks across this, even put one or two on the water (ex. so someone could put their Kakkran Dragster out there ). In turn, charge an extra million credits for the stronghold unlock. This one is tougher to implement, I know, but if people think its tight on hooks, this is probably the best remedy. Unlike an underwater room, which would have to be constructed, this room is already there, just a wall is blocking it. I know this is harder than the other two, but I think it would be worth it to alleviate the burden of a high hook count.

It's stuff like this that makes me upset, because this wasn't some looped animation out the west window. They really made that! and it looked cool! If they had made an arch through the starship wall it could've been an expanded courtyard!!!! Even worse is that they had the subs rendered... three of them... in one area... and couldn't make one a taxi. And they had to decide features about the terminal to enter/exit. That's part of the design process- make the terminal so people can enter exit. And they had custom ones before (Nar Shaddaa taxi). So they ACTIVELY said, "Nope. No submarines in reach, not even as a panel to enter/exit. Only in the distance, rendered through a murky teal-ish window. Anyway, brown panel it is- lets not reskin the shaddaa taxi!" :mad: I really think this is what happens when you have closed PTS. It's become very apparent that the right kind of players are not testing this stuff, because I can't believe NO ONE who really enjoys strongholds ( or someone who isn't just a diehard conquester that throws basic chairs and junkers lights to reach 100%) pointed out these issues on PTS. PTS needs to be accessible to all so feedback is from a more diverse group of player, not people that bioware likes. At the very least, there needs to be a public period before things come out. I can't imagine that bioware couldn't have remedied some of these stronghold issues if they heard about them in PTS phase. Manaan has a lot of great elements to it, but a lot missed opportunities as well. Hopefully bioware will take our stuff under advisement and maybe put new suggestions into it in an upcoming patch to make manaan better. At the very least, PLEASE take this information with them when designing the next stronghold.

I really believe the biggest whiff of the Manaan stronghold is the entrance exit terminal. We have seen you do a taxi entrance/exit terminal on Nar Shaddaa. And you used a brown panel? Can we not have a Manaan Submarine Parked right outside the entrance platform with the centerpiece on it to enter/exit? Like the three subs you have off in a corner in the stronghold scenery. Place one of those by the entry point. It seems like a small thing, but we know the technology is there to put it in. It would really add to the aesthetic, and it would bring a little bit of activity to that part of the sh, which is hook lite on the waters edge. All you have to do is reskin the Nar Shaddaa taxi and literally put it right out front of the stronghold edge along the water. UPDATE: Also, after seeing screenshots that were posted from the glitch (I'm not a glitcher/exploiting so im not sharing any details, all I saw was the picture), those subs out of the west window are actually tangible. They're not just pasted on the window. So you have the skin for the sub ALREADY made and in the greater stronghold area, all you need is to place one with a pad on it for the entrance/exit near the spawn point. C'mon Bioware, this is an easy improvement.

People are just angry. It's not perfect for everyone, but everyone bought it because its the first one in two years. The best way they can rectify it is make more strongholds with different qualities and sizes.

Thank you, people can complain about it, but this whole thing has been overblown. Someone posted today a discussion asking if this stronghold is the worst thing since RNG. Like, really? Just because you didn't get EXACTLY what you wanted means its absolutely positively horrible? And its comparable to one of the major reasons this game is so low population right now? I honestly think most of the flak is because they dropped five strongholds in one year, and this is the first one in two years. They need to put out an SH every six months so that people can get what they want and the gripe won't be bad because there will be another one around the corner.

And still no one has commented on the nexu cartel market miscommunication. Did you guys screw it up? Did you mean to say the companion and not the mount? It's been a full 24 hours and you're still advertising the mount and the companion is for sale? Like, I don't get it. All we want is to know what the deal is. It's not rocket science.

I like the concept! Even though i will never buy it, agreed. Though you'll probably have an RPer complaining about why its not valid to them, and thus should never be made, it would be great. It'd be a great guild stronghold too. This time it was a medium sized SH. Next time it should be a large one. You might wanna make a post in the deco forums too. More strongholds are beneficial to all, if one doesn't suit you, get a different one.

While I don't agree with their final design, this hate spew has to end or be toned down. For those of you begging for the next Yavin or Tatooine: I'm sorry. It wasn't your turn. Some of us who like having a reasonable place to live wanted a stronghold. You already have two strongholds with more hooks than imaginable, and with more terrain than imaginable. it was time for a reasonable sized stronghold, one that looked like a Retreat/Palace. Now, maybe next time they drop a Rishi stronghold the size of the moon, and then its the people who wanted a small stronghold's turn to complain. But we only have one medium sized SH in game and its rather bland, so its nice to see a beautiful place for a stronghold. Also, because it was so requested, so many people had a vision. I agree there are flaws, but most people are weighing their vision as what they wanted. Keep in mind that EVERYONE had a vision, not just you. Bioware had to deliver something in the middle for people. I'm not saying that alleviates some poor hook choices they made, but maybe the perk you wanted didn't make it because it wasn't fitting with the overall idea. I wanted a submarine terminal for exit/entry instead of a fairly bland terminal. Did I get it? No. Does it mean its a bad sh? No. Keep in mind that, the more vicious this gets, the more Bioware notices its problematic to put out strongholds. And the more problematic something gets, wanna know what happens? The more likely bioware just stops doing it altogether for a long, long time. Ask the endgame PvE community about that. Oh wait...

I put in a ticket yesterday, still no response. I'm honestly worried about what is going on with the team. This expansion had more bugs than content! 1 Op, 1 Stronghold. Meanwhile: Wrong Nexu either advertised or on sale Numerous Deco Mislabels for Deepwater Essentials Skinny Dipping Companions in Manaan Stronghold Manaan SH is not a rest area And, above all... operations GF is STILL BUGGED SINCE PRE 5.3. And the weapon tuning/crystal problems that I actually dont know about but have heard about I'm trying to believe in Bioware that theyre getting things together and gonna reverse ship, but when little expansions lead to massive problems, thats worrisome. Even worse is that there seems to be no comment or effort on fixing these things by bioware. :(

Also another QOL perk they could add is maybe remove the exit terminal and replace it with an submarine parked outside the entrance platform. It'd look really good and bring life over to that area of the retreat. This would be similar to the Nar Shaddaa taxi.

I don't think the size is a problem. I consent the hook placements are wonky in some places, but its about time they made a reasonably sized stronghold. There are plenty of players who prefer a stronghold that isn't insanely crazy to decorate like Yavin or Tatooine. There are even more people who don't have the credits for such a venture. If you're really counting what you're buying, the total price tag for a well-decorated Yavin or Tatooine SH can be well over 100mil. I get that a lot of people are not happy with Bioware's choice of size, but it really is time for something medium-sized, since Yavin was too large and did alienate some people from purchasing it. I am also very happy with the aesthetic of the stronghold, I think it is definitely the best or tied with Tatooine. The "shark" (who suspiciously is sized the same as one of our fave KOTOR friends ). the fish, the reef, the vibe was correct. Also, I think the hook count is too large. 600 hooks is far more uniform for the stronghold. It is bigger than Nar Shaddaa (475), but not by much. It's certainly nowhere in the size range of Yavin (750 hooks). It doesn't create incentive to decorate well, it creates incentive to throw random pictures and stuff around. Things that should be fixed: Bring the max occupancy back up to 50 in line with the rest of the SH's. I assume this is only a glitch because of the lack of expansions in comparison to the other five strongholds but still Please put large light hooks in the underwater north and south rooms. It's ridiculous how dark they are. I get there was a mood trying to be creative, but people should have the right to control said mood. Give more centerpiece hook alternatives Add more hooks in the courtyard, specifically on the left side area and the platform area Add some hooks upstairs in the rooftop interior, trying to make it a lounge is difficult and kind of annoying. Label Decorations right in the packs

I noticed two bugs concerning cartel market stuff today: 1) The Savage Nexu is what was advertised for sale, but the creature companion is up instead. I dont know which was intended but the Savage nexu was the mount but the companion is on the market at the same price. 2) Several fountains and selkath were never granted from the deepwater bundle.

I am having these problems too, which is annoying cause i bought two bundles for decos if it could be fixed and the items given to everyone that'd be great

While I get where your coming from, it appears these items (cartel certificate) were not intended this way. I thought I saw somewhere bioware was trying to come up with a solution. They should convert them to credits (like 250k or 500k per each certificate) so that its accessible but not worthless.

I wouldnt wait for a sub reward, but there is going to be a cartel market direct sale pack with some manaan themed items, the contents of which are though unknown. It was listed in the about page for eternal throne.

/signed. Definitely collections. It makes no sense. or at the very least, in a similar fashion to guild ships, give us a credit-base duplication price. Also, its been at least 2 years. Time to fix the Cartel Certificate vendor, and change it over to credits, so we can actually obtain those items for reasonable prices.

Yeah, and he'll have his own kephess mount. Seriously, Bioware, were tired of both of them. New story line PLEASE.

Keith said that in the future that if there were going to be more transfers the likely answer would be new megaservers, instead of shifting people to the current ones. He did not say this was anything immediate or even reasonably on the horizon.

Thank you Eric. It's all very much appreciated! I get that there is stream issues and such, anyway you could let it slip what the max hook count is?

I mean, no offense, there 90% discounted. Each transfer is 90CC. If you bought the CC pack for 1050 coins (10 USD), you'd be able to transfer all of them and still have enough cartel coins left over to buy a pack or something else. I'm pretty sure they do this so that people take responsibility when they do these transfers and they just didn't do them because they were free. This is because outfit designer gets reset, nothing should be in legacy storage, strongholds get reset and deactivated (although I believe you just have to pay reactivation costs), etc.

I won't argue with that logic about harbinger, its pretty dreadful even just traveling cross-server to buy things. I think the assumption would be one would move characters as they log back in, and thus when they log in determines name issues. So that active people can prioritize keeping their names, and inactives don't hog up names.

Hopefully, Bioware will make 6.0 the "Fall of the Alliance", and we can return to the Empire vs. Republic story that captivated us all in the first place. Also, make the use of the following words a perma-ban offense: outlander zakuul Alliance eternal Alliance Commander Command :p I think it's unrealistic to ever get back to class specific stories, but maybe we can one day have Republic/Empire stories again, with a class perk or two in the story here and there.