TiTaNsFaN
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Posts posted by TiTaNsFaN
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Nevermind him... he is a moron.
I'm a moron for pointing out the obvious? Why let BioWare slide on ****** class balance year after year?
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I would still comment the same, your point?
Point was that what you wrote we agreed on. I guess I should have phrased it as
NOT ONLY are they easier to play, they are objectively better at their roll in 4v4 arenas.
Tl;dr sorcs are overpowered.
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*Chuckle* How are they not easier to play? I literally almost pulled 7k last night in teams on my Sorc which i never play. To pull 7K as an Operative is hard as ****. They are extremely easier and more unforgiving.
Reading comprehension...
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I really don't understand the argument here. Hottie is running with double carb setup which has been meta and OP for ages now. There is no circumstance in arena even with that setup where you would WANT to take the op healer over the sorc healer. You are simply gimping your team.
Can OP healer work at a high level (with an already OP double carb lineup?) sure. Would you ever take an op over a sorc to heal in the same lineup? god no.
Op DPS is even worse off in the trash tier.
Granted 99% of harb is trash at pvp anyway, but still.
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Just because Sorcs are easier to play and are FOTM (again) doesn't mean a guide on Operative healing is irrelevant, your comment is just silly. Majority of the players on this game don't understand how to play the class correctly to get the HPS potential out of it.
They are not just easier to play, they are objectively better at their roll in 4v4 arenas. guide is appreciated, but BioWare needs to inject some love into PvP balance, unless people are satisfied with double carb+sorc making up almost all of the top 200 players again next season.
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OP Healer runs with double carbonize in arenas and he wins all the time except against double carbonize + sorc? LOL. No s*it .
Sorc > Op @ heals.
Everything (but merc) > Op @ DPS.
Why people even try to argue this point for PvP is beyond me. I don't mind the "hey I'm an Op and I'm doing okay" threads, but people trying to say Ops are balanced with other classes right now at any roll is laughable.
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What the f is the point of this class now?
Sorcs are indisputably better healers in PvP, and almost every other class is better at DPS.
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My healer OP fully geared and augs... and I've been hit for 15k+ and have seem a couple of 19k hits from dps op/scdl.
They are fine, if anything the high burst you are seeing from other classes should be brought down a notch.
Now, we all know people will go with PT's, Sin's before picking a dsp op/scdl... why cause those guys just make it easier.
I've been in awe at their survivability and have seen some really good players just not die w/o anyone healing themselves. I've even fought a couple in ranked solo that have kept their team alive long enough to win, granted the guys on my team where terrible. lol (im a healer =P)
A fully geared BiS PvP geared Concealment OP CANNOT hit for 19k. It is mathematically impossible, unless your opponent is lacking expertise.
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You will notice most who play the build are average...but once in while you come across one who knows how to gear and puts in the time to do so! They seem immortal and do crazy damage!
The issue is between the keyboard and the chair...not the build...
Actually, the issue is pure mathematics and objective comparison.
You can't just say the class lacks burst and sustain damage, and then follow up with "but yeah you can roll and sap so class is fine." Can a good player beat a dumpster as a dps OP? SURE! They can do it as a merc too. Beating the keyboard turning autists in SWTOR does not mean the class is not **** when compared to the others.
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Operatives are fine however you have to really look at your talents and decide how you want to play. I run a "survive through all the insane burst build." When done properly you can effectively open on someone and have a solid 15 secs of 80% plus dmg reduction.
Absolutely stack crit everywhere you can. you need to be able to string together as much hard hitting crits as you can in those 15 secs. I run 42 percent crit with 73 percent crit bonus. Ive been able to hit 15-19kk crits consistently. other than that its basic control and knowing how to counter the other classes. Keep in mind any good heal is going to be tough to take down but if they aren't healing the team you are doing your job anyway.
Lol always tickles me when people try to find new justifications every successive patch for why operative is not trash tier, despite consistent nerfs and regularly being outperformed in ranked wz's by almost every other class.
I'll check again next big patch in however many years that is to see if BioWare decides to stop punishing operatives for once.
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Those rankings are based on the fabled Operative of legend that two shots everyone and also heals the entire team at the same time. Operatives are trash and gutted even further this patch.
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Goblin-Lackeys post is out. Bad News Everybody
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847112
Concealment Operatives are ranked 18 at 2.64% below the average DPS of 6915 (6.603% below the highest parsing spec)
Lethality Operatives are ranked at 11, 1.1% below the average DPS of 6915 (5.45% below the highest parsing spec)
All our specs are below average in this expansion. At least we'll always have lethality in PvP.
I was aware of this when I posted yes. We're actually worse than those numbers would indicate in PvE since those numbers were taken from stationary dummies, and concealment ops need to be in melee behind the target to do damage.
****** PvE DPS and Mediocre (at best) PvP DPS. At least our heal spec is average, but still less favored than sorcs.
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What the hell are you talking about... OPS/Scoundrels are far being average or below average. The problem is they aren't easy to master. They are in a great place at the moment.
They are pretty much identical to last patch but put out less damage. How is that great? Sure, we can kite like no other class in the game, and have tons of utility, but in 4's why would a concealment op be better than a sin, ptech, madness sorc, etc?
If I had to 1v1 I'd probably take the operative still against anyone else, but since ranked warzones are 4v4 I don't see that is much of an advantage.
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Kolto injection is expensive and was a great way to ruin your energy pool. Relying on flashbang to save you is also going to get you killed. Flashbang being successful requires that the enemy doesn't have your DOTs on it, doesn't have allied DOTs on it, isn't going to be cleansed by another enemy, isn't going to be broken by a reckless ally by accident, and isn't going to be broken by stunbreak. Once an enemy is free from CC, kolto injection can be easily interrupted. Before 3.0, DPS operatives were just assassins that did less damage and died faster. The 3.0 changes made concealment into something that could be respected.
Assuming 1v1 combat, you would ideally flash when enemy is not dotted, and if they use their trinket I call that a win. Can stealth and sleep or use normal stun etc and heal up. Lot's of options. Energy is no problem, you have adrenaline probe. Not sure why you don't miss kolto injection whatsoever, but to each their own.
I played from 2011-late 2012, when hidden blade and knockdown were things, and operatives were excellent. Before this patch things seemed okay actually. This 4.0 patch on the other hand seems like it's gutted the spec and made useless compared to others. Correct me if I'm wrong though hopefully.
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Class/Spec got **** on by BioWare basically.
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Now I remember why I quit swtor 3 years ago. BioWare still holds a grudge against concealment ops/scoundrels and blames them for the game dying.
Class is pretty much outshined by every other in the game in PvP right now, everything else being equal.
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Concealment is currently in the best place it's ever been for PVP just because of kolto probe. If you use roll properly and if you kite properly, your survivability is unmatched.
Well roll is great yes, but before that you could flash CC and heal up with kolto injection faster.
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Wow, I appreciate all the responses guys! Very helpful stuff! Will take some practice, but I'm hoping to get back to top form. New 4.0 changes look pretty cool too!
Only downside is the PvP servers died and had to xfer to harb, so no more unflagged open world ganks!
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Iagox here, was a pretty big pvper on the Fatman server way back in the day (warzone annihilator, etc.)
I know there is a learning curve coming back to any game after that amount of time, but it sure seems like they stripped a ton of the DPS Operative / Scoundrel PvP benefit.
For starters:
1. What the hell happened to our hidden blade + knockdown? The hidden blade damage is now attached to backstab but no knockdown and 1 less spell on rotation? (1 less spell to crit with out of stealth as well...) This seems like a massive nerf.
2. Where is a our regular heal (kolto injection)? We have Kolto Probe and infusion which uses a TA. We have to spec into healing now to get our regular heal? Why?
3. We get a gap closer. Neat.
4. Seems like stealth detection is up a whole lot too, particularly coming off cloaking screen. Or maybe there are a ton of new dots you can't dispell.
Haven't had a chance to look at our pvp healing options yet, that was always our strongest warzone role anyway. If anyone wants to tell me that Concealment Ops are not nerfed to oblivion and are fine I'd appreciate it though.
Oh, here's some good footage from the "good old days" for anyone that cares lol:
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Operatives and Scoundrels should not DPS. They are a healer-only viable class in competitive (lolswtorpvp) warzones.
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1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?
Healing Operative: Best PvP healing class in the game, overpowered compared to other healers.
DPS Operative: The only classes that remotely fear us in warzones aren't viable either, i.e. Mercenaries and Sorcerers.
2. How do you perceive your own spec?
Healing Operative: I have been forced to heal since 1.2 because Bioware took the overhanded approach to class balance and completely ruined our only viable DPS spec, being concealment. The medic tree makes us the best healers in the game, but it is unfortunate the Operative class has been forced to heal to be viable.
DPS Operative: Lethality is laughable in both PvP and PvE. Concealment, our only viable DPS spec prior to 1.2, is also laughably underpowered. In PvP, we are supposed to be a hit and run high burst class, but have zero capacity to restealth, have lower burst damage than top tier classes (Assassins, Maruaders, Powertechs) and have no survivability whatsoever. This is a broken spec .
EDIT: I should also mention DPS Concealment Operatives have the WORST energy management in the game, making us even more useless in both PvP and PvE. I wish the idiots at Bioware hadn't pushed me so hard into Guild Wars 2 but damn, message received.
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That's funny, I could have sworn Marauders were the best class.
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I already unsubbed and pre-ordered Guild Wars 2 and all but... just saying, if Operatives at least had Shadowstep as a unique offensive move I might not have been so disappointed. Sucks having so many gimped classes as your mains (merc operative).
Oh well.
See you in August fellas.
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Also doesn't imply as well; that's what it means directly, lol.
This is true... but it reinforces what I said in the first place -_-
What's with the ninja nerf to Scrapper/Concealment?
in Scoundrel / Operative
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No reason to OP/Scoundrel in PvP either