I cancelled my re-sub too, because I hope they will get the point. However, don't give up on it quite yet. BW has a pretty good history, and we're all hoping they will learn from their mistakes. Enjoy what you can for another two-three weeks until the sub runs out. If we hear a detailed response from them, resub. If not, well, cancel. I know I will.

Except they removed the Slicing spawns from the good areas in Tatt/Illum.

I actually had a good laugh for one of the first times in this thread that wasn't more of a pathetic shake of my head at some of the comments. Thank you for that

People like to exaggerate. Something about an internet e-peen? Compensation? Who am I to know. Just wait until their 50k repair bills start adding up They are largely still sub-level 30. We'll see.

The level of comprehension on these forums make me weep for the future of MMO gaming. The advent of forum-game integration was horrible.

You missed the point entirely. They made a rash decision in response to a public relations mess with players complaining about a skill a week after release. These players weren't even 50 yet, the economy was nowhere near stable, but the first thing they did was nerf it. Then, you have threads with 200k+ views, but not one response to the issue. Not one. They even did an AMA on Reddit, where the question was asked REPEATEDLY, and still it was ignored. I dislike being treated like that. What exactly do you think will happen everytime a group of people start complaining? Oh no, snipers are doing too much damage in bg's *nerf*. UWT is making too much money *nerf*. Instead of actually FIXING issues, the response will be to knee-jerk react and nerf it. Until I see that changed, I cancelled also. I will re-sub once their reactions have been addressed. The nerf itself is not the issue. How they are handling the situation is the issue.

Aw, now you're just making too much sense In all seriousness, that would actually be a surprisingly easy and simple fix. I still say professions should be level capped in addition, though.

SWG all over again. It's not the nerf that bothers me as much as the fact that the nerf itself was an overwhelming reaction to a populace that do not understand the situation. Think about it. If they plan on doing this every time a group decides to twitter-bomb their support, do you really want to invest time and money in that? Would anyone? Like I said, it's an abusive relationship Now, it's different if they did it and then communicated with the community.

The subject has died for most of the people attempting to talk logically The rest just attempt to talk in circles and flame people who chose to take up slicing. This in turn makes it less enjoyable to discuss options, thereby avoiding the issue. As it stands, these threads will eventually slow down and die. BioWare won't have to do anything except re-evaluate the situation at a later time frame. This time frame will most likely be in another month when the majority of players have started to hit 50 and complain about the ridiculous cost of things as simple as equipment repair. The casual players will fall off, as casual players are just that - casual. Why would they stick around for it. It truly does make me sad that the first patch included such a knee-jerk reaction to I'm sure what was considered a PR 'nightmare' at BioWare due to the massive level 10-30s twittering them and posting in these forums about how 'OP' slicing is. I have a habit of putting my money where my mouth is. This is no different. I was excited about this game, it allowed for me and my more casual friends to play together. Ordered the LCE and everything, signed up for a 6month sub, then cancelled. A game floundered with knee-jerk reactions is never good, and another MMO 'abusive relationship' is not well worth it Edit: I am not saying I won't re-sub once they release a statement. The first whiff I get of an explanation I'll be re-subbing that minute

That's very true, but keep in mind we are talking about people who would rather complain than look for an alternative solution. UWT was ALWAYS more profitable, but because they did not seek an alternative solution, it was ignored. I'm secretly hoping BW is in the back of the room cackling wildly at these forum threads. They are waiting for all these newbies that are complaining to hit 50 (or hell, make it past level 30) and see what the expenses are like, then wait for them to cry and say 'bring slicing back' (those who aren't too proud, anyway ) or 'nerf repair costs' 'nerf training costs.' etc etc, you get the point.

It took me a moment to detect the sarcasm. Yes, we are currently making large profits off of UWT. And UWT was previously making (read: pre-nerf) larger profits than slicing for very little additional effort. Problem is, you have a lot of people (some in this thread, some on the twitter feed...they're everywhere) that don't understand these scenarios. Instead, all I'm reminded of is 'ujelly' rage faces turning kids into rampant 'nerf this, nerf that' machines. And most of them, sadly, have not even hit 50 (or close, seeing as how certain members believe it takes LESS THAN TWO DAYS to get to 50). A simple level cap would have fixed so much. It's a psychology issue. On one hand, you had a large amount of the slicers (people who had not played beta extensively, people who _thought_ that 200k was a lot of money) bragging about 200-300k credits. Then, you had players who were new to the game that did not pick up slicing to level get angry and disappointed they were not seeing the same rewards with their professions. Then, you had lots of complaints. So it wasn't that it was making people unhappy directly..it was a cause/effect relationship of the average video game nerd trying to e-peen it up. And I don't mean that to be derogatory, just providing a clear example most people can relate to that use the internet/video games.

None yet. Hopefully they are thinking about the issue this time instead of providing another knee-jerk reaction.

o_O What are you even saying here? I was pointing it out, that is all. Are you re-pointing-it-out in a different light? I do *not* want slicing to be back where it was. I understand how some say it was balanced before, but I am of the mind that it needed a 40-50% nerf, not a 70% nerf (on the most profitable mission, 90% nerf overall). You're not a slicer. That's the whole point. And your last statement kind of sums up 90% of the populace against slicing. Most of the crowd against it have not hit 50, do not understand even basic principles of economics, and just feel angry that they had to work for what they consider profits whereas slicers 'didn't'. And as a heads up, I don't count farming UWT mats working for my creds. It's just ever so slightly more difficult than pressing that button once every 30 minutes. Should we nerf UWT now, or is that your profession? If it's yours, I'm sure you'll want to leave it alone. Cheers. Yes, I just dislike forcing casual players into having to spend extra money at gold/credit-farming websites just to feel like they can have a good time. It's quite sad. Those that do not mind shelling out a little extra every so often I'm sure fall into your two categories.

You missed one choice some of these guys will hop all over if I fail to mention it. The other choice is to spend the time required to produce credits. When starting out in end game content, you wipe a lot. This constitutes for high repair bills. Repair bills cost 40k (without even close to best in slot gear). So, when not doing end game, you spend that time farming for credits to pay for your stims, packs, and repair bills. So, the third option is a farm fest. Which weeds out the casual players BioWare tried oh so hard to obtain.

You claimed it took two days or less to get to 50. You're not 50. Stop trying to insinuate you are without lying. =/ Here's the quote: Also: Re-read my post. Perhaps I could have been more descriptive. They removed the high yielding nodes from Tattoine and Illu. This inherently counters the argument presented that we can still make comparable profits by searching for lockboxes. And again, I'll point out that it's much more lucrative to do space missions for the time required. Hence, the 'gathering' aspect of the profession also got nerfed. And if you don't believe it, go check it out yourself. Oh wait...if you're not 50 or a slicer you won't be able to check out the latter, and will get killed at the former. Enjoy!

I also would like to remind everyone who preaches about 'gathering' of the following:

Similar to Treasure hunting Which currently returns a much higher profit than slicing. It could work, it's been suggested before. Tying slicing to a profession or proclaiming what it's use is for would help on Bioware's part. Unfortunately, we're still waiting to hear from them.

I just feel obligated to mention (again, since you continue to ignore this point) that other gathering professions far exceeded the profits slicing gained PRE-NERF. UWT is the best example, obviously. Still is. Get to 50, please. You're ranting on these forums, but you have no idea what the game is like past your level. By your logic we should get rid of space missions too then, huh? I receive more credits / hour doing space missions than I did pre-nerf slicing. You may be somewhat of a math and science geek, but the perspective shared by that economic viewpoint is extremely limited.

Your repairs will start near 25k. The more epic items you receive, you'll notice upwards of 40-50k repair bills. This was the problem originally. Level 15-30s kept seeing all the slicers with what they considered massive amounts of money. Thing is, it was - to them. At level 50, however...it isn't. There are better ways to make money at 50, slicing is just an easier way for the casual players to do it. [Edit] there are better ways to make money, period. As many before me have mentioned, sitting next to the GTN and going UWT is more profitable than slicing. But that didn't need a nerf because you had to post items for sale then run to the mailbox to receive them. Right?[/EDIT] Adding in level caps eliminates the incessant bragging by lowbies of the amount of credits they have. Of course, the medium level lockboxes still needed a nerf, and I still maintain that slicing as a whole needed a nerf (although I was going for 40-50% nerf, not 71% - or perhaps, as someone mentioned, much longer time frames, reducing the credits / hr gain)

An easier solution would be finally putting level caps. Then, the amount of time to get alts to 50 and have 400 slicing would not be worth it at all, especially when you can just farm space missions or grind for much more gain.

You did not answer my question. D2 did not have an AH. D2 was not designed to rely on gold to be an economic currency. Which is why, at the very beginning, gems were used in place of a currency. Then came rare items. Then came duping, which inflated the price of rare items, but they were still used successfully as a trading system. LoD was the same way with runes. Runes are *still* used as currency. Well, until the forum gold system came about with D2JSP. And the reason that worked is because it was basically an Auction House in and of itself. Well said, I forgot to mention the lack of quality vendor items. Anyone who compares D2 economy with a system similar to that of WoW and SWTOR need not post on the mechanics of economics.

I feel as if the reason others say it has been brought in line is mostly due to jealousy and spite. So this is the justification for the early profits. Again, they say it has been brought in line...but will you see any of them choosing Slicing? Nope. Careful, you'll hurt people's feelings when you say you might have more experience than them. Whether it's true or not, this is still the internet - no one would believe us anyway

Are you implying D2 was designed to use gold as their currency? Even from day one, that was not true. I was there, I remember.

We discussed this at one point in time. I knew of one friend who made an UWT alt. He was raking in much more with that one alt and UWT than with slicing. Of course, this was when people weren't scared to spend credits on mats. And, again, this could largely be solved by a smaller (read:40-50%) nerf to slicing as well as proper leveling caps be placed on crew professions.

Ah, I enjoy having him ignored. Then I have to see people quoting his posts and then feel the urge to add things into it. <.< If you go back through the post history, Violet believes everyone should struggle to afford everything in the game. They should have to wait a few levels or simply grind before affording trivial things like class skills and mounts. I don't recall which game he compared it to, but he said that the SWTOR economy should be similar. Everyone having to grind constantly in order to afford the bare minimum. Then I recall a casual RP player chiming in, saying it saddens and scares him seeing these kinds of comments. Because, were this change to happen, it would ruin the entire game for the more casual players....which BioWare has said for some time now that SWTOR would be more open to casual players than the majority of MMOs. Edit: Here are the quotes.