Outdone by whom? Jugg is not be it all class, there are some things one classes do better there are some things Jugg can do better. The weakest part for PVE is absence of long time control. This is a real bummer and this create an impression then Jugg is weak. Actually it is the strongest tank in the game or very good dps with some tanking abilities and slightly better survivability, or if you say use soresu with dps tree - mix of both. Due to absence of long CCs we have to work a bit harder then other classes, but no one is better in 1v1 fight. I personally leveled in dps tree with dps companion - it was very risky but mob killing speed was simply amazing.

Well from someone who actually uses Shatter it's rather good. Though I wouldn't mind if it's cost is dropped by 1. The great thing about Shatter is internal damage which is usually weakly resisted and not affected by shields. In actual combat even Shatter themselves(without dot) do quite good damage against well defended opponent, sometimes on par with Impale (Try to shatter Powertech) The only thing that I actually dislike about shatter you have to pay attention to sunder and to the fact either dot present or not. And this is very inconvenient in PVP. If cost is dropped then I could just spam Shatter and not look at dots at the heat of the moment.

What exactly is broken? The whole point of different damage types is to have different defenses, no? Shield does help more then focus from my personal experience.

Then you didn't play in PVP a lot. It's probably the most important PVP talent.

That's the point when it's clear you are either not smart, troll or just have to l2p. In SWTOR you have companion, so you can get dps one. Dps class if they take dps companion will feel themselves squishy, and probably will take healer or tank instead. As a result total dps will be roughly the same. In any case Juggernauts are fine they are great fun and powerful class, but yes it does require some skill to play to it potential. If you don't think it's good - PT is here (Note how many PTs feel they need buff to be adequate to Jugs). Summary leave the class alone it's good as is, moreover there is some buff planed for it which is absolutely not needed, but more goodies to me - I won't disagree. So no need to beat the dead horse, those who lack skill - they will play easier classes, it's fine by me.

It's purely issues of 50 lvl premade vs not 50 lvl premade. I won and lost fair share of matches and if there are such imbalance at the start of WZ results is pretty clear. Much better if 1 premade on one said and one on another or no premades at all. So it's just a question of poor matchmaking

Armor boosts kinetic as well. Only bleeds do internal dmg, but I would agree energy resist is severally lacking, and most popular class do such dmg almost exclusively.

Once again if you are on PVP server you should be able to find fight independently of zone. But in Ilum PVP if you are really would like to get your daily - weekly quests, you have to allow other side to take objectives first.

No, actually there is NO POINT to defend objectives, i mean what exactly can be achieved if you prevent other side from taking objectives? Well you will spoil their fun, but will get nothing either.

Wrong, when I went to Ilum and started killing repubs and defend objectives. Well i did exactly that do you know how much I advanced my daily - weekly? Yep zero advancement. So objectives are lame, it's supposed they would be taken and then retaken. It's as lame as it sounds if you are successful i.e. killing opponents you get nowt for your effort. Overall Ilum PVP is the worst possible implementation of the PVP zones. Since i don't want to participate in win trading but don't want to spend time and get nowt for effort I simply left it.

Well this mean you have no clue about Rage specced Jugs. Not only 3K is rather simple, under the right boosts you can get 6-7k regularly.

As a Vengeance 50 SW, I really don't think Jug needs DPS increase it's fine as is.

Yep, second lightsaber is more of a stat stick then actual dps increase.

You are wrong, due to synergy with smash, Juggs actually do more damage then Maras. 3 points in vengeance and your smashes have 62% more dps then before. Try to beat that one and for Rage spec smash is crucial.

It's SMASH!!!! 9 cd specced.

Actually only those who played both to high levels Jugs and Maras can compare both of them. There are a lot of misconception here, like Mara DPS is great and Jug is not (in DPS spec). While it may be true(or not) it's absolutely not clear at the moment, but for example Rage specced Jug will do MORE damage then Rage specced Mara. Right now they are fairly even, for Jug pluses are Push and Taunt, for Mara invisibility is a really huge plus in PVP. Survivability for DPS Jug and Mara are about the same. But Jug in Immortal are really hard to kill while maintaining decent(but not good) DPS.

I greatly surprised a guy who was trying to repair machine by killing him, he didn't try to attack me - nothing. And then realization came - guy won't repair the machine and i can't take it back. So i won't do my warzone target... Well this is really counterproductive to kill enemy players. As soon as such thing came to my mind - I left warzone, because as is it's entirely pointless, basically free stuff for those who intend on farming it. Not my cup of tea.

I would like to repost http://s17.postimage.org/h9pc5czkf/results.png Now are you really going tell me it's not a problem with PVP sets? I mean come one... and FYI yes majority of the op team was 50 lvl, for my team only me.

Check this one http://postimage.org/image/xxgu7uubv/ and now go somewhere else and tell there is no imbalance in pvp now, or even it is viable. The only kill I was managed to do(for the whole team) was fight alone vs 2 50 lvl guys, see it was kinda a miracle.

Well FYI i do WZ quite a lot and never had an issues till 3 days ago when PVP sets started to appear. Before that problems 20 vs 40 lvl was not that big, i.e. 20 lvl had chance. Now 50 lvl in full battlemaster set just killing everyone else. I believe you you just haven't met them yet. As i said they just started to appear, and today it was really horrible - just killing everyone on the respawn zone at huttball. I am 50 lvl myself and quite OK in PVP but i can stand 10 secs 1v1 again such guys.

The problem is not premades but sets with Expertise, and when one team has 3 such players and another zilch... In any case other players without expertise are just filling numbers.

I won't repost from another topic, but problem is not 50 lvl - but expertise. I am 50 lvl too, but i can stand for 5-10 seconds tops against such players.

The problem is not 50 lvl itself but gear with expertise sets on 50lvls, this completely ruins whatever balance game had. Before such players appeared on WZ I actually liked matches, disparity wasn't so bad, but now its unbearable. I mean come on 1 guy vs 5 and he wins.

Here we got the situation finally - matching system is unusable as is. The story one team has premade with 3 players with pvp sets AND pvp buffs... well 3 of them can kill whole opposing team, or 1 can kill 4-5 opposing players. Since there is no gear score or whatever - this situation is expected, but are there a fun? I mean even for those guys - ok, you are great you will win get 8-10 medals, but are these even remotely fun? If the matching system could put in brackets based on gear with expertise such situation would be avoided but as of now you are either grinding till your death or pray that these guys on your side. And please note I am 50 lvl and can't even remotely touch such guys for 10-20 lvls well they should feel like i do not know... BIOWARE PLEASE FIX MATCH MAKING OTHERWISE THERE WILL BE NO PVP IN WARZONES SHORTLY.

Aren't player == silver(strong) mob for ability purposes. So pommel should work.