Wrong. I use the abilities, and the class is still weak. This is Juggernaut mind you, but it applies to our warrior class. When I leap in, I throw, leap, smash, by this point most normal mobs are nearly finished so i switch to the next mob, pommel strike, finish him with non cd abilities (usually one extra strike) at this point, if it is a group of four normals, i finish them off with about 70%. Against Strongs+1 normal I can finish off at about 30% hp. With elites, it's questionable, I generally have to pop all of my cooldowns just to survive. On tougher elites, I have to use a medpack. Facing two strongs is a challenge. My bounty hunter friend can take on a group of normal, champions, and even an elite patrol during the fight and come out alive. Single elites to him are strongs to me. It's a similar experience with the other classes. Either our dps needs to change (i'm dps spec) or survivability... Boosting our single target dps and/or adding some toughness might counter the gimpiness of our class due to the one difference of being melee vs ranged.

Unless you're immortal spec, that's an outright lie.

How sad would it be if they start balancing this game around huttball?

lol, yeah, the bleeds are a joke.

You're missing the point entirely. When I see other classes come out losing only 1/3 or less of their hp while fighting an elite, NOT popping cooldowns, there's something wrong with the class and it hardly seems to be the design of the game. The Juggernaut is STUCK in first gear.

Taking them on by having to blow your cooldowns isn't taking them on with no problem. Other classes can take on multiples because they can essentially cc mobs of their choosing for the entire fight until they're ready to deal with them. The longest cc I have is the 6 second aoe stun...

Too bad the experience doesn't change.

LOSing is a ****** and cheap tactic that no self-respecting person should use as a standard strategy, and if it's something you *must* use to be viable, then the game/class is flawed.

No, I'm talking about both. Other classes have abilities to keep mobs stunned or away from them while they take minimal damage while fighting. Plus, you're still talking about the rage tree right? That has some decent ranged abilities, but meanwhile vengeance pales in comparison within its own class.

Even if the dps is decent, you can't base the juggernauts worth on dps alone. You need to field the range of utility, melee vs range, survivability, player tactics, etc to other classes. DPS doesn't tell the full story.

Yeah, it's consistent. Consistently bad.

It's because the QQ is filled with tears of justice.

Bounty hunters crit for those numbers in their early 40s, with consistent damage.

Holy ****, who said we were tank specc'd?

Even if the Juggernaut rivals the bounty hunter, whether they were specced dps or tank, the Juggernaut loses simply because of the bounty hunter's solid aoe, cc, and the almighty kiting ability. If they were on equal footing, equally geared, and of the same skill level, the bounty hunter will come out on top because he is able to kite because he is ranged. You're talking about the Rage tree which has 10m abilities, the other trees, other than from a couple of skills you train, have no range. The juggernaut and other melee classes need to be able to be feared if they are able to even reach you for a moment.

'42' and am often seen slapping people with a soft white towel.

Because, they desire to be superior so badly, their judgement is clouded by the Derp side of the force. I've never been bothered by minor class inadequacies in any mmo to date, until I got my hands on a Juggernaut. The Juggernaut's name can only be revealed as some ironic twist to his actual ability. The discrepancy between being a fearsome warrior in the cutscenes to having to trigger all of his cds to barely come out on top against one of the tough elite storyline characters or when he has his hands full with npcs named "jedi apprentice" (or whatever) is huge. I don't feel like a ****** outside of his dialogue/cinematics. When the juggernaut has to time things enough to take out a group of normals +1 silver mob and come out with half hp, and two silver mobs are a gamble the Juggernaut. The big problem is that the juggernaut HAS to melee, but he's just about as tough as a bounty hunter who can easily kite with range, has massive aoe, and has multiple ccs, while the juggernaut chokes on pretzels.

The class is flawed, It's like the people defending the Juggernaut in its current state are cult fanatics trying to defend the character of their beloved cult leader who's been accused of pedophilia.

The Juggernaut doesn't use a lightsaber, but a giant foam pool noodle beating people repeatedly over until they somehow fall over and give up from the sheer absurdity of this class's impotence. Juggernauts must be a part of some cosmic joke everyone else in the galaxy is in on.

Possibly because one of the Juggernaut's class roles IS DPS.