Failure to recognize sarcasm: CHECK

Ummm... basically the entire point of the thread was that, given the premise of easily farmable Commanders, that is an unacceptable state of affairs that needs to be changed, since the Commanders would easily be many times more efficient than any other way to achieve ship upgrades. Without price changes, crafting ship upgrades would take over 16,000 man hours just to farm the advanced materials in FPs and Operations. That's insane, and it has been acknowledged as such by people on both sides of the discussion. Of course, they might make crafting less crap and more reasonable by the time things go live, and we have no way of knowing how often Commanders spawn. Regardless, your attitude is not constructive nor is it indicative of having read and understood the contents of the thread.

Ha, I wish. I have a 10GB per month limit on my internet. Downloading the PTS build is... well, it's just not in the cards for me.

I wondered that myself, actually...

Nah, we don't need to comment on whiney pvpers - that's such universal knowledge it doesn't warrant comment. I suspect the commanders will be a smaller issue than we first imagined because it would be suicidally stupid to have them on anything but a long timer. Crafting is and will be useless without a change... even my guild's internal documents state that pretty baldly in their discussion of our stronghold and ship plans. That leaves Conquest, which might have its own issues, but at least everyone will be able to participate.

So long as you've acknowledged that crafting is ridiculous to suggest as an alternative to Conquest or the Commanders, I really can't disagree.

While I agree that you're right about pulling numbers from thin air, I don't think there is any question the crafting costs are over the top. You know how many man hours it will take to accumulate the 48600 endgame mats? Even a 500 man guild is going to take... well, assuming it takes 20 minutes to obtain each mat (a very low number), a 500 person guild would need every single member to spend 32.4 hours doing nothing but grinding those mats. A 100 person guild would need every single member to spend 162 hours doing nothing but grinding those mats. No events, no dailies, no bio breaks, and certainly no PvP or wipes. Chances are it will take MUCH longer than that freakishly ideal scenario of 20 minutes per with no delays. I'm sorry, but those are crazy numbers, especially for anything OTHER than a mega-guild. Most small guilds might as well hang up the towel... a 24-man guild with a 16-man team and an 8-man team would have to spend nearly 675 hours each farming under those ideal conditions. That's almost 17 weeks straight of playing 40 hours a week. Hell no.

I'm wondering if the Commanders are a weekly spawn. That means the primary source of encryptions would be from Conquest, if I understand rightly, and crafting would still be fairly useless.

So what you're saying is, you believe the Commanders won't actually be any faster than the crafting because of PvP competition? Wow, I hope you're wrong, because if you aren't nobody is going to have a maxed out ship for a LONG time. You need over 48,000 endgame mats to craft a fully upgraded ship.... you know how long that will take to get doing nothing but running Ops and FPs? The more I hear, the more I think this feature might as well not exist...

Presumably to keep NPCs that are helping you fight other mobs or players alive. They were trying to imply that it is also done by Imperials trying to stop Pub teams from taking down an Imp boss or vice versa. Scummy behavior if it's true. Proves the saying, "The biggest problem with multiplayer games is the players."

If the community were that far gone I would just stop playing. The game is supposed to be fun, I'm not here to teach people what their mama didn't. I've got a backlog of other games I could be playing, many of them single player, where I don't have to give a rat's fart what anyone else does.

Wow, I have literally never seen this done. Nice little bit of trivia though.

Kind of looks like we're being trolled, doesn't it?

You have no idea how ironic it is that I should be saying this, but I think you're overestimating how scummy people are.

I think what he's getting at is that if your player base has devolved to the point where they'd do just about any slimy thing they can think of to mess with people they're competing with (sort of like the Nancy Kerrigan thing years ago) then even open world PvE can be a miserable experience. I've seen mob stealing, but my impression of the PvE culture on my server is overall quite positive, and I've seen no indication they've sunk to that level of pond scum.

Ah, so you're saying that people don't really care about the spirit of competition and fair play, but more just about winning no matter what they have to do? Meh, opt me the hell out of that. That's not a game any longer, that's just an experiment to see who will sink the lowest. I hope they don't carry that attitude over to real life.

Competing I don't mind, it's the dirty tricks that make me want to sign out. That nonsense has no more place in SWTOR than throwing dust in the face of a batter in baseball.

If they make the PvE option costs reasonable I don't see a problem with that. Of course, if they make the PvE option competitive I don't think they need to change anything else.

Thank you. Maybe now people will understand what the problem is. When I said orders of magnitude I meant it.

Actually that's the entire point. Why design PvP content and put it on PvE servers that people specifically chose because they don't like that type of content? It makes no sense. That's like making a character on a PvE server because you want to play OWPvP.

*whiff* Right over the head.... You didn't actually get the point of what I wrote, did you?

Precisely. Given the option, we signed up for PvE and we expect PvE. Yes, and that skill is something many people on PvE servers don't care about, don't want to waste time on, and don't want to bother with at all. We rejected it as a possible aspect of our game experience and resent it when that choice isn't respected.

I'd be totally OK with that. Good post all around.

This. Why don't more people understand this? Isn't it obvious from the way they use PvP zones in various quests? They know people won't OWPvP because it's fun, so they have to lure you there with something so you'll put up with it for a little while. That's certainly not fun. I'd love to see some OWPvP rewards like he proposed instead of this "lure the bait in" garbage they've done for ages.

This is where the misconceptions come in. If the Commanders were not in PvP flag zones on PvE servers but PvP was allowed as normal on PvP servers, PvPers who are looking for a fight and not unequipped uninterested victims would lose nothing. I would never advocate removing that option from PvP servers.