[Entertainer Class proposal]

The main narrative is that they are the eyes and ears of your faction, you can get into places that a known combatant cannot, they can gain influence and press normaly shut of people into there beliefs through diplomacy and tactical thinking, leaving false clues and seducing and capturing key targets who your companions overpower on timed missions. They are also mainly tied into space which at this time is not a major part of the game but with what could be coming down the pipe via space would give them a strong part in the combat part of the game.

But the question remains, why would they get an entertainer to do it and not a trained Covert Operative in the SIS or the Imperial equivalent?

Havoc Squad is able to get anywhere in the galaxy that they choose. Sure there may be resistance along the way, but they have the training and the firepower to get there.

Jedi, being peacekeepers can go into into just about any planet in the galaxy.

Space is optional with all other classes. Consistency being key, it should be the same for this class as well.

If they are working for a specific faction, than you need to come up with mirrors for each faction, like what we have now, which also means different narratives.

There's also the matter of Advanced Classes

 

These will also have 3 story arcs and the only difference is that these shall start with a companion where other classes get them at about lvl 7-9. For phased areas most of the quests will take part in and around cantinas of one form or another, in spaceports and in the main buildings that we see scattered about like palaces on alderaan and and the main citys on capital planets.Tattoine is a main part of there story arc and would probably be act 2 or most of it along with nar shadda because of the hutt cartels.

Tattooine and Nar Shadaa aren't really acessible until somewhere in the 20's if I remember right.

The classes need to follow traditional character progression, especially if the main purpose for having them is putting in them in unused areas. Focussing them on two planets leaves the rest of the galaxy as it was.

 

The only limitation is that this class will not be able to take part in ground based pve (to the same degree as a combat class) and pvp, but people taking this class will know this limitation. These classes will be able to go anywhere on any planet aslong as they have the relevent level, they will be able to attain codex entrys and even matrix cubes, some codex entrys shall require them to group with actual combat classes but at the end of the day that is what guilds are for.

That's still a (huge) limitation, and not one that many players are going to be willing to take.

You think that "oh, well people will know this going in" or "there will be a warning" will somehow pacify the or stimmy the complaints and problems that people will have with this class.

Again, players want consistency. They don't want 8 options and than 2 that are completly different. They aren't going to want to see that their monthly subscription cost (or expansion pack purchase) has gone to something that is not capable of actually participating in 99% of the game that a normal classs should.

 

And before you say it, yes there is the option of multiple characters, but that is missing the point. EVERY character is capable of doing EVERYTHING. Anything short of that is unacceptable.

 

What this class can bring to the table is alot more then the limitations of what the combat classes can, the entertainer classes wouldnt be beholden to the same rules of balancing as combatant classes and what can be added into an existing class like this without overloading there abilities lists or having to tune flashpoints and pvp to them. And the reason for the codex and lore link is due to the fact that people taking this class are primerily into the lore over combat and puzzles based from it is more tailored to these types of players and thus why there quests are tied into that.

But you can't tie the story to something that doesn't actually exist IN the story.

"Go fetch this lore object so that you can fill your players log...."

That's going to seem very odd.

 

Least not forget the basic principle of this has been rubber stamped in the past as cannon so is not lore breaking and the known advantages for this type of class are well known as they are designed to promote community, promote taking short breaks ( in the form of giving people increase rested xp whilst taking a break) and to make previously unused developed content relevent like cantinas and bars populated and used

While it may be canon that they do exist, the fact that dancers have every done anything covert for their respective government or faction is not. SIS, Imperial Intelligence, Bothan Spynet, and so on, all use highly trained professionals who than find an alias, rather than finding someone who is fits an alias and than put them into covert operations.

 

Community can be brought together without entertainers.

Rested XP gains can be used in other ways.

Unused areas can be incentivized without entertainers.

Why go through all the hassle of making 2 classes, 3 story arcs each, all of the voice-overs and lip-synch, the companions, and so on, when there are other facets open?

 

Why not just give extra rested xp through Legacy Rewards?

Relocate all of the vendors on each planet into the cantinas to consolidate people into one space

Introduce group quest chains instead of always doing one-offs. Create bonuses for random groups.

Create events that require large parts of the server to cooperate together to accomplish a specific task.

 

The only real reason to implement an entertainer class is because you don't have the opportunity to roleplay as an entertainer without it. Alll of the rest just seems like trying to distract away from that.

[Entertainer Class proposal]

Class quests, simple contracts to play at new venues and conversation and go fetch deliver missions plus entertaining missions tied into how they gain xp and tied into space combat. Also puzzle missions where you have to dig clues up through lore to complete the missions with actual clues on where to get specific codex entrys for your log.

What's the narrative though? All of the other characters are galaxy-altering protaganists that span 3 arcs, and there HAS to be consistency in that.

More specifically, all of the class missions that we currently have are in dedicated Class Phase areas. The majority of the codex areas are sprinkled across various planets. Again, consistency is key.

Why would you get entertainers involved in lore hunting when there are so many better qualified people for the job?

 

 

The actual possibiltys gained from this class and what it could bring is unlimted really when you think of how they could be interweaven with the legacy system and the gameplay type they actualy take compared to a combat only class.

To say that it's unlimited is hugely misleading considering they actually can't participate in the majority of the game. That is not only a limit, but an incredibly large one.

[A solution to the loss of names due to transfers]

Yes alignment, faction and class are also apart of that embodiment also, but you can't deny that a player's name is not, it's also apart of that embodiment. I tried renaming my character countless of times, but still the name has been picked over each time, I'm not just going to type in any name that's laid out in front of me, I need to be satisfied with a name if it's picked over it's going to take even longer for me to come up with a name that will pose my interest to my character.

 

Good names are hard to come by these days, I don't have the time of day to come up with a proper unique name, it's frustrating to the core that I am unable to play because I have to be forced to rename my character when I was already happy with the one I had prior to transfers.

 

Change is needed! The naming process is probably the most important part of the entire game, now that many of us who were robbed of that only to find out our original names are no longer accessable on the new servers that were provided to us, that's just poor marketing right there. Regardless it's only a matter of time before we were forced to move to a new server anyways so it makes no difference if we stay or not, I was already happy with the name I had prior to being transferred to my destinated server and like I said I tried varies names already only to be rejected of them.

 

Maybe it's time bioware introduced either a name generator, or fix the name policy altogether and make it better, because there is many players out there that aren't happy with it at all with it's design and mechanics, it's just too frustrating especially if you take naming your character seriously.

 

Yes I can. Names are not indicidative at all of who the person is.

Names are also easy. You've had a month to come up with one name. I come up with ten in a week.

Names are the most important thing? that's crazy. Between the story, the flashpoints, the operations, crafting, and everything that is actually part of the game, you want me to think that the NAME is the most important? Please.

If you haven't noticed, you're the only person still making an issue out of this. the rest of the world has moved on.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

It isnt classed as cannon because soe broke cannon by flooding the game with jedi in a timeline when jedi were rarer then hens teeth, thats why lucas set out that permadeath should be in at the start. but tell me, is max rebo cannon, is oola ?

 

So you see it does as dancers and musicians are in cannon, max rebo was also in swg. and obviously lucas aproved swg at launch and aproved of the none combatant classes or they would not have seen the light of day in swg otherwise.

 

If that's why the game isn't canon than why did he say something completly different?

 

Non-continuity since they exist only in a single galaxy/server.

 

Even if Jedi were still appropriatly rare, the game still wouldn't be canon.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

I never said where they start or if they should have a full 50 levels, whos to say that they do start at lvl 1 and goto 50 but they get there companions right away. And being the muscles dont always make you the best, it just means you can crush skulls on command. Also who to say they should have the acts like we have now. why not just have them unlocked when you have a char that unlocks legacy upon that server.

 

Because all good products are based on consistency, and video games are no different. Think back to Galaxies, KOTOR, Elder Scrolls, or any other game that you might have played that you enjoyed. At no point does it shift from one thing to another.

 

Galaxies didn't have a seperate leveling system for entertainers. D&D doesn't give you an XP cut just because you're different. No matter what class you choose in Skyrim, all of the functions are the same.

 

The game that a player sees and plays when they first play the game, is what they expect the rest of the game to be. Players already have an expectation of 50 levels of play and 3 acts, so any new class that doesn't do those similar things is not going to be recieved well. Once you get into it and realize that the class also doesn't play like the rest, that's going to be an even bigger problem.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

Right lets follow this.

And my point is that in SWG the vehicle for cannon were the holocrons, they were used for unlocking jedi. the jedi were the reason for the game changes and it was nothing todo with the none combat classes, They actualy broke cannon in swg due to this which resulted in the nge which was my point and in context with the conversation.

 

Lucas have only made an ip of its change once due to cannon. and that wasnt because of none combat classes, that was due to hundreds of jedi running about at a time there were meant to be next to none. Lucas is a fan of entertainers in canon and they are deep seated within it.

This still has nothing to do with the actual discussion. SWG could have never been changed and it still would not have been considered canon.

If entertainers are so deep in the canon, than why is it the most prominent game that has them isn't (and never was) canon?

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

Yes and that is why there companions are there bodyguards. None combatant and pacifists are not the same thing. Example is they would work like c2n2, he is none combatant but he can punch people in the face.

 

And what about before you even get a companion? You don't get your first companion until you leave the starting planet you don't get c2n2 until you begin Act 1.

 

Why would they choose you as a covert op when your companions are the ones that are actually skilled for the job?

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

I do actualy know who he is and its a database he maintaines, but with the rather rude remarks you make you really should stop them and just read what i wrote as it was in context with bap and yourself in reference to the previous reply you made.

 

I was purly putting context to what was being discussed so maybe lay off of the you cant read stuff and realise i can read and understand the context of multiple posts holding the conversation at hand as my reference to holocrons was in reference to the lore and how it revolves and is addapted to fit into that game not the actual database.

 

You're the king of not reading what is actually being written. You've made a carreer here of trying to rewrite what I've said.

 

The discussion was that the game was not canon. What you mentioned had nothing to do that conversation.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

Conflict doesnt have to be fisticuffs though does it, espionage and spys dont have to be all into the kicking people in the face, if there story revolves around them being the people in the shadows and there story is about being the eyes and ears on worlds that makes it fit, and thats just one example of how they can be involved in the war in a big way but never have to kick anyone in the face.

 

Lets say for example one of the class missions for them is they have to get into a hutt palace, entertainers how bad can they be you say, they have to slip poison into the wine and have a light and dark choice of the light being they warn the person in exchange for there life and any information they have or there companion will nail them to a post or dark they spike the wine, everyone dies and you simply get the information from digital records and send it to your controller.

 

It's rather out of synch with the rest of the stories in Star Wars. Anyone who is trained as a covert operative is trained in some form of self defense and firearms, so the "noncombatant" thing goes out the window. If you are doing covert operations, you're also no longer a "nuetral" party. And, do you really make 3 acts based on that? Somewhere along the lines they'll figure out who you are...

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

You want to know why they got rid of holocrons, its the same reason why they removed permadeath, not enough people were unlocking them, they made it a grind and what did that result in, everyone being a jedi. they didnt get rid of holocrons because of lore., they got rid of them chasing profit.

 

When they made jedi a grind they flooded the game with jedis, they became worthless and all other classes disapeared bar some tkm/fencers, they threw the nge in to try and balance it back out but by that time it had failed as anything but a roleplayers world and the only real mmo still to have some sandbox stuff as wow had by that time cornered the market and presseded to set the mmo genre for close to the next decade.

 

So it wasnt that swg pre cu was bad, it was that smedly and soe saw the $$$$ blizzard were making and broke the cardinal rule, they changed the core of the game, from 32 classes to 8 i think it was in the end.

 

PS its due to holocrons i actually know what the blue leaf temple is, and if it hadnt been for that holocron which was pure chance i would never have found the most powerful story within star wars lore. eXar makes vader look like a paper boy.

 

That's not what I was talking about at all. This is exactly what I've been getting on about regarding you and your reading comprehension.

 

I mentioned THE Holocron, rather than A in game Holocron. THE Holocron is a computer system, operated and controlled solely by Leland Chee and owned by Lucas, that keeps track of who or what is or is not canon, and their prospective stories.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

wow wow wow there, some of the best stories of all time are nothing todo with combat, they are todo with love, friendship and joy. For you to state they would have no story is just silly. If they can make story for companions that doesnt involve combat, confesses to love and the joy of freindship and you think they cannot create a story within the lore that follows the lore, expands that story based on where the player gets sent and who they interact with is just insane on your part.

 

Bioware could make you play a mouse droid and still weave story around it that pulls you into the lore of the game, just because we cannot state exactly how they would do it is only because we are not bioware.

 

All stories involve conflict of some kind, wether its physical or not. Yes, Star Wars does have romance in it, including with our companions and so on, but that's not what the movies (or franchise) are primarily about.

Star Wars at the end of the day is a fantasy epic about the conflict of good and evil.

 

I say they can't make a story about the entertainers because nobody in the past 35 years has. Noone has actually made a story about Max Rebo, he's only appeared in stories where the main characters feature.

 

Act 1 alone is longer than the original Knights of The Old Republic, and that's a pretty extensive game. Even if there's a full act of content in there, you still have two more acts to go.

 

You seem to be missing this whole concept of keeping things consistent. Star Wars has been doing things more or less the same, and touching on the same themes, for decades. Bioware as well has been making the same kind of stories (heroic fantasy) for their entire existance. Your proposal does not match up with either of these.

 

What themes in Star Wars can you touch on with an entertainer that you can't already touch on with the other classes?

How does the entertainer become the protaganist that changes the fate of the galaxy that all of the other character classes do?

 

Also they do put none combat people front and center, palpy was none combat and so was here mmoma lea, lando was to a degree and weedo most definatly was, i wont name the one not to be named aka the gungun but he was most defo none combat, so ye lucas defo likes to make the world he depicts as real as possible and entertainers and traders take a front seat with that. Even the jawas even though they were columni no longer are and are quite the none combatants.

I do remember quite well that palpatine was a combatant. He even bested the best lightsaber user at the time. Lando was too. Jar Jar was also made to be a combatant even though it wasn't his strongest suit.

 

Yes, noncombatants make apppearances. They may on occassion even be a supporting. They are never the main character.

Anyone who is a main character in star wars uses either a blaster or a lightsaber.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

they did in swg and they also didnt say anything about swg not being canon entirely

 

Leland Chee, the guy in charge of the The Holocron and master of all that is canon and continuity, was once asked if anything the player did was considered canon or not, his response was no.

 

Non-continuity since they exist only in a single galaxy/server.

 

Where-as since each of the class stories remain the same from server to server, they are considered to be canon.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

so in other words...lucas arts has spoken..and everyone in this argument aside from me and shingi and those like us has lost...because we are on lucas art`s side...the only side that ever wins

RIght....Because Lucasarts has always put dancers and entertainers in their story-canon Star Wars games. They always put characters that don't matter and don't fit in the with franchise, right at the very front of franchise stories....

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

Taken from the About Bioware page

 

BioWare develops high quality console, PC and online role-playing games, focused on rich stories, unforgettable characters and vast worlds to discover

 

Currently announced projects at BioWare include..., ...and the story-driven massively multiplayer online game, Star Wars®: The Old Republic™.

 

Story has been Bioware's primary focus since they opened shop, and this shows it plain as day, and they aren't going to introduce a class that has no story to it.

[why HK as a companion?]

The reason that they can't be a class is because droids (even the HK models) are considered to be nothing more than property.

 

A droid does not have the free will that a living creature does, and that creates alot of limitations. Not only do none of the current class story arcs work, but most of the overarching missions don't.

 

It becomes less "hey, it would be really helpful if you did this" or "please Master Jedi....", and almost immediatly "droid, go fetch this relic out from the wastes, now!"

[Droid playable class?]

We have cyborgs so why not go all the way and go droid, there are plenty of models in the game and we know that mx1 is it the trooper companion is self aware and it would definatly make a fun option.

 

My feelings are simple, if you like it fill ye boots, and dont ask dont get.

 

You also learn that droids can't hold rank in the Republic Military. The Empire also has similar views. Considering that droids do not feel the force, Jedi and Sith are out as well.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

A social class would not be limited to only crafting social gear, they would have the option to craft social gear or do any of the other trades in the game, they will have the ability to use instruments other players cannot, they would have the ability to do dances other players cannot, they have the option to buff presence onto players and to buff rested xp at an increased rate to other players. They have the option to play space and any future mini games that come into the game.

 

By there very nature a social class has more options then a combat class when it comes to gameplay.

 

my one character can craft, grant a buff to other players, dance, conduct space, do flashpoints, warzones, and so on, so they really don't.

What they are doing is something that any other class can do, it's just expanded

 

Even at equal that states that this would generate alot of income on a monthly basis for bioware.

While this is theoretically true, I for one don't think its very likely.

The statistical likelyhood of people coming to a predominantly action war game to play 1-4 social classes that are very limited in what they are allowed or able to do is very low.

 

 

 

Nothing becomes lost, the game will not change apart from the fact that players wishing to will be able to play a different aspect of the game if they so wished. But feel free to tell me how a social class would impact upon your ability to raid.

Opportunity Costs sound familiar? They should because it explains exactly how this being implemented affects other aspects, although indirectly.

Adding in a social class takes dev time away from other aspects, and continously working on the class over time, as all other classes are, means that an operation that would come out in the next patch now has to wait until the one afterwords, or that a series of bugs that could of been worked out now aren't because the team is instead working on a dancers "score"

 

You defeat your own point, the fact is people will pay a sub for a game that has features they want, as such adding something to the game that takes nothing away from another aspect of the game gets a net result of more subscribers as the people who are here for an already existing feature wont leave because something has been added that doesnt effect them in what they do day to day but players wanting that feature will come to the game because of a new feature they wanted being put in.

You'd be surprised what people will leave and have left MMO's over. There's folks in this game who quit just because they had to change their characters name when they transferred servers, and that doesn't actually affect anything in the game at all.

I wouldn't be the one, but I know that somewhere there would be a guy who thinks "this smells suspiciously like SWG, I'm out" or "This shows that Bioware isn't interested in endgame. That's the last straw"

I can't seriously believe that there are that many customers out there who will pay $50 bucks, plus an ongoing subscription, just for this feature.

 

 

Basically any mmo out there has roleplayers in who do nothing but solid rp, once they get to max level and sometimes not even then they do not take part ion the pvp nor pve and simply use the game world as a vessel to roleplay within that world.

But SWG was the only one that actualy put it into a mainstream mmo, but thats no reason to condemn the class type, swgs problems were not created because they had none combat classes, if anything it made swg feel more alive and created a great and vibrant community that included the pve'ers and the pvp'ers.

There are plenty of other games that are huge that work on the basis of none combat gameplay, minecraft, second life etc etc and people spend a fortune on those games. If some of those can be pulled into the game then £$£$£$£$£$£$££$

Of course there are players in any game who do nothing but roleplay. It's certainly not how those games were designed, but good for them.

More specifically, you can do that in The Old Republic. As you have already pointed out, you just can't roleplay as an entertainer in this game, and that's deliberate.

Some people would and have said that social classes were in fact part of the problem with SWG. I still have a Scorched Earth article about how the only way the writer was able to do anything with their dancer was to be a stripper while other players /lick him.

Is there a game that does both Second Life and themeparks.

 

Adding a social class isnt radically different, its just putting a different aspect into the game. Space is a different aspect to the game, at one point flying mounts in wow was a radically different change but it didnt kill wow. At one point it didnt have arenas but putting them in no matter how radical enhanced the game, only a limited number of people used it when compared top the entire playerbase but that has paid for itself.

Space Combat also makes sense in a game like this. Things get accomplished out there. and some of the most memorable events happened there.

 

WoW had paid flying mounts and the Gurabashi Arena, at the start of the game.

These weren't radical changes on gameplay when they were introduced in The Burning Crusade. It took what was already there and made it better.

The social class that you're implementing has nothing in common with current classes or mechanics. There is no "score" in any part of the Old Republic. There are no instruments. This is the only class that doesn't go to level 50. This is the only class that does not have a heroic narrative (and by its very nature, it can't)

This is the only class that touches the rested xp of other characters.

Adding a different aspect IS radically different.

 

This isnt a car or truck, but throw in a dvd player, free aircon and some other things and it will sell better.

A video game has the same design principles as any other product in the world. A product that does one thing exceptionally well typically sells better than one that does several things only marginally well.

 

How do you know it wont, Im pretty sure biowares plan and mission is to have all spaces and developed content full used and taken advantage of as it took alot of work to design it, public rest areas which arnt the fleet are baron, unused and wasted development at this time. giving them a purpose is what they want, im also pretty sure there mission statement is bums on seats.

Bioware's mission is heroic storytelling, and it's been that way since the beginning of the company. Their idea here is to bring the kind of storytelling and narratives that they've been very successful with in the Single Player games, into an MMO environment which has never had it.

Bioware actually only needs 500,000 customers to be successful according to their ten year plan

http://www.gamesradar.com/ea-the-old-republic-only-needs-500000-subscribers-to-turn-a-profit/

And for the majority of the time that the game has been alive, they've had over double that number.

 

 

Show me one mmo that suffered from adding a feature that didnt involve impacting on or changing the core of the games design. Any mmos stated that lost players due to wow nicking there ideas dont count.

The Going Rogue expansion comes to mind. It wasn't recieved well by its players and shortly thereafter, a ten-year vet MMO had to go Free To Play.

 

 

And that is the players choice to make, no one would be forced to play the class would they and having this feature would allow them to utilies this as an alt.

But you're missing the point. If a player only wants to make one character (and there are plenty out there who do), they have to either make a combatant class that has no access to the social stuff, or a social character that does none of combatant stuff. Normally, you can make one character and do everything, and that's how good games are made.

To say "oh, they can just make another character" is equivalent to saying "oh, they can just go play another game". It's not a solution to the problem: it's a refusal to acknowledge the problem exists

 

XP would, they would still be leveling, just not in a combat way minus space.

All but one of the xp perks is based off combat. The only one that doesn't is exploring.

 

We have 2 different games in the same space or will have soon when space gets revamped, a third will not harm a thing. It certainly didnt in swg.

The space game, is integrated into the main game in such a way that it appears to all be one game. More specifically, it's something that everyone can do and everyone can interact with, once they reach Act 1.

The combatant classes and the social class are completly cut off from one another. Aside from one giving a buff to the other, they are functioning in entirely different games using entirely different mechanics.

 

 

If you had a social class you wouldnt be locked out on any other chars you made. If you have a main that is your raider and you wish to staore them and only do dailys and the raids per scheduale in the week you could play a social class on the downtime.

You could, yes. What you fail to understand is that there will be players that don't want to have to do that.

 

 

So is love, forgivness, peace, understanding, the world that encompasses it traders and entertainers too, and the underworld and the choices of light and dark.

All of which are already expressed in the game through the various story arcs. There is no theme in the franchise that only an entertainer can touch on, because so far they haven't touched on any.

 

 

This isnt kotor or the comics, im pretty sure jedis went to the toilet and chewy scratched his bum, those arnt in the films or comics but they will have happened.

It's based on the same era. still functions on the same trends and differences from the films.

 

And yet they are some of the most remembered scenes in the whole films Also they are some of the biggest cosplay cosutmes used..

People may remember the cantina scene in general very clearly, but I doubt they remember it because of the bith musicians. Between suddenly being face-to-face with all of the aliens, Luke getting bullied, Obi chopping an arm off, Meeting Han and Chewie, Han shooting first, and so on, there's alot of memorable things.

I live in walking distance to san diego comic-con. the most common Star Wars outfit I see every year are stormtroopers and slave leia's.

 

 

They dont make storys of ben kenobie sat in the desert for a few decades eating choc ices and going to the toilet but its an integral part of the story. Also lando calrision, the guy who works for him, weedo, Oola and max rebo are some of the best known lore people in the lore.

Sure....best known, behind the Skywalkers, the princesses, Han, Chewie, Boba Fett, Jango Fett, Dooku, The Emporer.

Just functioning on those, they aren't even in the top ten. And sure Lando may be a memorable character, but weedo, Oola, or max rebo?

Get real. they don't name those characters, and it's hard to remember a character you don't know anything about.

 

 

No its not, its in the story, its just in the fringes and the background to the story. Its what makes to story come alive that the universe feels real.

And this isn't a game about the fringes and the background. Very little in Star Wars is. It's all Foreground, High Adventure and fantasy.

 

 

AAA but your stating i dont want______________

Show me wheere I said it.

 

And yet you would not take any part of this if it came into the game YET you feel the need to here, a social player fits into the universe, it fits into the lore but because they dont waft a light saber about or shoot a pistol and there part in the war is moral on the ground and taking to the fight in space it somehow doesnt fit to you.

If you asked bioware if it fit they would give you the same answer I did. It doesn't fit in the lore. The lore has NEVER given more than a glancing look at these kinds of characters.

Yes, they don't fit because they don't shoot pistols or use lightsabers, because that's what everything else in star wars is about.

 

 

I think we can fully believe this makes no sense to you, as such you would not use it even if it came and yet even though it has no impact upon you your still here in this topic.

Opportunity Costs

 

I have not lost any feeling of what this game is, but unlike you i know that the star wars story has deeper dimentions then smacking someone in the face with a lightsaber.

I know that as well. I also know that those deeper dimensions are not better expressed by a twi'lek in skimpy underwear.

The Old Republic already goes through the deeper dimensions of the franchise.

 

The rest of the game appeals to, but unlike yourself i see where the game can appeal to me in other ways, mini games, the casinos being functional with pazzak, swoop racing, spectator mode and set teams for huttball, a fully devolped space game and this.

Right, so because I disagree with you i'm somehow shortsighted and can't see the grandvision of what this game could become.

Oh what fun The Old Republic could be...if only Shingara were in charge!....

Please. Now it looks like your Straw Man is being visited by a Red Herring.

 

Your trying to right now in this topic.

No I'm really not. I'm trying to show you why it won't work and shouldn't be implemented. Even if I never said anything about this topic, it would still never see daylight.

 

And we are stating that the game we are playing can be alot more, alot better and alot more encouraging for players to play who are not currently in this game or genre by adding features and aspects to the game that other subscription based mmos do not have.

Right, so clearly the only way that Bioware will ever be able to get another customer interested in this game ever again will be to do what you suggest.

 

 

 

Your the one stating what bioware will do, what there mission statement is and what will and what wont fit within the star wars lore and universe.

Yes, because they've already said what their mission statement is, and there's decades of proof as to why dancers and entertainers don't fit prominently in the star wars universe.

 

 

Why would i need to win anything, what your saying speaks volumes way more then what words i could ever try tto place into your mouth.

And yet you've been trying to put things in my mouth for eight pages.

 

I wouldnt try, how could i tell someone what there try to say about a genre and setting when they dont even understand what sandbox and themepark are.

Easy, you've been doing it this whole time

"What you're stating is"

"You're saying....."

"Oh I get it now, the wow mentality"

 

And they have been proven to fit in the star wars lore before, swg did it. Aparently dancing games also fit in the star wars lore cos its in the new kinnect game. Guess what also those two are set in the real war not a cold one.

KINECT Star Wars is also blatantly non-canon and is a collection of nothing but mini-games. There's no story there. There's no story in Star Wars Galaxies either, and that's the primary vehicle behind The Old Republic.

Besides, you're really going to say that we should add something because two games have it, even when every other game in the franchise doesn't?

 

And what proof would you like exactly, the size of the genre for which this gamestyle is mainstream, the fact that features like this have been called to be implimented for years, that this feature alone used to sustain an entire mmo for a few years, That another mmo second life had double the number of players then even wow at 21.3 million users. To generate you have to speculate, to get players from outside of the genre into the game you have to embrase features and ideals which in the main part are not part of the genre.

Sure, to bring in new people you will at somepoint have to do something new. That does not mean that just because it's something new that it's automatically going to work.

Second Life also functions entirely off of that social concept. It's not a themepark game that's trying to put a small bit of social in it to get new people.

Other mmo's that work on that premise usually put all of their marbles into that premise, just the same that The Old Republic put all of their marbles into story and combat.

Show me an MMO that has actually added more social features overtime and grown. Show me a themepark MMO that has added an entirely new social/rp facet to it and not gone free-to-play.

Oh, that's right, you said SWG was the only MMO to ever introduce a social class, so you really have no of proving wether a social class will be successful or not.

 

Other mmos are doing that, they are bringing sandbox back into the mmo market, rift and sto for example, wow is declining massivley and people are bored of constant combat gear grind. Players want more and companys are realising that.

Keep it up Chicken Little.I've been told that the sky is falling for 6 years now, and look at where we are.

 

And in finishing you can find no alternative, your only statements against this is that there is a war and even though there are presidents in place for this in this exact ip that it would somehow not fit, that you find a player who does this is no better then an npc which is an insult to people who rp and take no part in combat now as if there gamestyle is a waste of time. You stand and try to state what bioware want and there missions statement which is so close to trying to impersonate a bioware employee its unreal. You have placed nothing constructive in any of your replys and in your previous reply above this post do infact try to state what should and should not be developed and the incrimental costs of developing this feature.

Funny, I didn't realise I had to come up with an alternative idea in order for yours to be bad. More specifically, I DID come up with an alternative several times, which is to improve the game that we have and continue to focus on the games strengths as they are, rather than trying to be something it was never meant to.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

Darth_Halford -- Thank you for the post, absolutely filled with your thoughts and opinions!! :-)

 

This post will not delve into the details of a social class/crew skills, after reading the above I feel you expressed extremely well why you believe this type of game play does not belong in this game. Below being my response.

 

If BioWare does implement some type of Social Skills/Classes this game will benefit from it. Adding variety in options is usually positive results. There are people who play,only PvP and people who only PvE , some who do both.

 

--- Adding additional activities is only going to increase interest. Most gamers understand there are 2 different games, * The grind to a max level * * gearing out at the max level* Adding content to do along the way, and at the top, while the content that is already implemented is not broken, can not be a bad thing. --- If you don't agree please quote this and respond.

 

Social classes do not appeal to everyone, but they do appeal to some. Just like continual crafting. This game should not change its core, but it should strongly consider adding this as an option.

 

BioWare has been, as far as I know, solid when dealing with patches and adding new content that works. Hopefully this game will get through multiple expansions, and add content as well as fix it.

 

MMO's are about having a second life, it's sad to say but that's why we play. There is a different level of intelligence(or stupidity), teamwork and effort in mmo gameplay.

 

As always please post your response's any opinions, comments, suggestions or idea's are welcome here. Thank you for reading and participating.

 

to begin, I'm sorry that I missed your thoughtful post amongst all the vitriol.

 

I do think it's a shame that you won't discuss the details about the various social classes. "The devil is in the details" is a very true statement, and the details about how something works can make or break it. It especially benefits a guy like me who wants to know exactly how something is going to work.

That said, this is your discussion and not mine, and I think I'v pieced it together by what the others have said.

 

Adding variety CAN improve something, but it comes back to the issue of economic Opportunity Costs. If you have a forty hour work week, and have 10 things to do, you can't work on them as well if there was only 5 things, and as a result, it's not going to be as good. Even if the social classes come out fine through production, they will continously eat up production that could be spent in other areas of the game.

It's my argument that by improving the game that we already have, The Old Republic will be more successful in the long run than if you continously add new things to it, and that the opportunity cost of trying to attract new gamers through social classes is to be high to be worthwhile.

 

I absolutly agree that adding new content along the way is a great way to get new players and hold onto the ones that we already have. What I don't agree with is that social classes will do that, especially if they are strictly noncombatant classes that actually don't access most of the game.

Adding more flashpoints, new warzones, more group-based content: the things that people already think that Bioware does a good job on, will continue to bring in customers and hold onto the ones that we have.

One thing that I personally think Bioware could do that not only maximizes on their current strength but also encourages more group play and interaction is to have group-based story arcs. All of the group classes that we have now are one-offs. I think that Bioware implemented multiplayer quest chains, that could really help. If they worked in such a way to be specific to another class, that would be really cool, such as if the Jedi use their knowledge of the Force to help a Trooper outmaneuver Imperial tactics, or if a Bounty Hunter and a Sith work together to capture a Republic Senator.

 

The key is to create content that everyone has the potential to access and enjoy. That's a foundation that every good game relies on. Social classes are basically blocked out of all of the content in the game that is not built specifically for them, and that is a huge problem.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

your pure awesome shingi...*sigh* i tryed my best with my earlier post to bridge the two ideas and he just spat at me....

I really don't think I did. I even said at the end that your idea would be interesting but that it just didn't belong in a multiplayer game.

 

this is capitalism,if there is money in it,there will be a way...no matter what you think about feasability or properness in this world....your opinion to denounce something will never be heard or even thought about by bioware..because your opinion wont make more money

Nobody here has been able to present any credible proof that it will make them more money either.

It is historically proven though that games that keep to the same format and continuously upgrade the mechanics and the features do better than ones that just add new ones.

Compare the Mortal Kombat franchise to that of Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, or other varieties of games. From MK4 onwards it kept trying to do something different or add something different from the game before, and as a result the games themselves suffered, and the sales followed. It wasn't until recently when they completly went back to the mechanics of the first game and expanded upon them that players began to take interest again.

Where as Street Fighter2 had remained the exact same for over a decade and was still considered to be the best game in the genre, and continued to sell.

If you want to stay in the same genre, you can look at how the New Game Experience, or City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion compares to some of the more successful expansions or games,like City of Villains, which offered the same gameplay as City of Heroes before it, but offered a mirrored character option.

You could even look at it from a pre-dev stage, at how much public interest there was for Warhammer Online, and than how quickly it died down after players found out how much the game had changed.

 

however,shingi`s opinion,and mine,will make them more money.....and mr darth,what ideas have you actually come up with to make bioware money?

Again, you have no proof of that. You have no way of proving that the costs of adding the classes will be outweighed by the profits gained by the new players who use them.

I haven't come up with a bankbreaker idea for this game. The absense of a better idea does not meant the current idea is good.

 

this is capitalism,pursuit of money is all important...and if you dont like capitalism im sure there are some primordial games out there to satisfy your refusal to work with capitalism

I used real economic principles to support my argument, I don't need to be told how capitalism works.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

LoL, just lol. lets look at this shall we, combat class's do exactly the same thing as npcs, they attack, talk to each other and are defeated, so if your now stating a player has to do everything an npc cant and do nothing an npc can then you have just defeated your own argument.

Nice try, but wrong.

A NPC doesn't have crafting, Legacy, or comapnions. By the very nature of what it is, it can't engage in PvP. An NPC is only limited to do one thing. A player character has the option of doing several things.

The idea of a social gear crafter does not have that same option, and while your idea of entertainers may have a choice in what dance they use or instrument they play, they are still confined to only doing one thing.

 

 

 

And you did say it was a good idea, if your stating that social only players would outnumber combat only players. cant have it both ways.

I didn't saying anything about social characters outnumbering them. At best I presented a theoretical situation where they were EQUAL.

And, for the third time, it is strictly that: a theoretical idea to show that if the idea becomes very popular, the games major theme becomes lost. Not once did I say that it WOULD happen, only saying what the problems would be IF IT DID.

 

Who said anything about all of those players exactly, and people pay money to have a sparkle horse so yes people will pay to play a game where they spend all there time in a cantina, they do it now in other games. And you somehow stating that if you want that then play a pirated lucas arts game is somehow justified then go ahead and see what happens, say it again.

I never advertised for the emulator. I never recommended that you or anyone else go to play it. You clearly have a problem where you see what you want me to say, instead of what I'm actually saying.

Yes, people do pay money for micro-transactions for downloadable content in other MMO's. That's how "free to play" games make their money. However, they wouldn't be paying for the WoW sparkle horse if they didn't already think the game itself was worth the $15 bucks a month.

 

I am curious though, what games are out there that people actually pay a subscription fee for just to be in a cantina or bar.

 

And under that thinking the game will never get above 2nd place as of yet i have never heard of an mmo failing because there was to much todo variety wise within them have you ?. 3-0

Many products have become number 1 with that kind of thinking. You don't need to make a radically different product, you just need to keep making the product you already have better.

The Ford F-150 hasn't gone through a major design change in ages, and it still maintains its position as best selling truck in the United States by doing what it set out to do better than anyone else.

Adding a Social Class does not help Bioware do what it set out to do any better than it would be without it.

You may like the idea, You may think its fun, but that doesn't mean that it helps the games (or the companies) mission statement.

I may not be able to think of any product off the top of my head that has been hurt by doing too many things, but I can think of quite a few where it didn't help.

 

Your not only stating the obvious but also proving yourself wrong at the same time. None combat class states that you would be making a choice to play a char that can do none of the combat orientated objectives in the game when it comes to operations and flashpoints etc but they arnt blocked from space combat. But as previously stated you arnt limited to only one char, there is no reason why they couldnt gain legacy or any reason why it couldnt even be part of legacy.

Even if they conduct space combat, that's still leaves the overwhelming majority of the game that's being left out.

Yes, they can always play another character, but you've completly missed the point, which is that shouldn't be necessary.

Every character should have the ability to do everything, because players are going to want to do everything.

This is the same reason that Bioware didn't institute "freaky aliens" as player characters that could not be romanceable, because someone, at some point, is going to want it.

 

Like everything else, Legacy is not suited for them or it just doesn't apply to how they work.

Bonuses to various companions? Doesn't work because the companions won't be following the DPS/Heal/Tank archetype as the combatant characters.

Extra abilities with Heroic Moment? Nope.

PvP bonuses? No

Increased XP Gain? None of it applies.

The only thing that really comes to mind that is of any benefit is the species unlocks and cooldowns to the Fleet Pass.

Yes, you could make Legacy Rewards specifically to benefit the social class, but than they won't benefit the combatant class.

If this doesn't sound like having two completly seperate games in the same space, It should, and no that's not a good thing for your profits.

 

If a player wants to play a tank and a healer they have the same limitations right now so what is your point exactly, you dont have one. 4-0

Except that regardless of being a tank or a healer, I still have access to the same flashpoints, operations, warzones, class stories, etc, as any other character. I'm not locked out of content by the choice that I made, I just play it differently.

 

This game is about Star Wars, it is set within a war. Not all things are equal, there will always be fewer tanks and healers then there are dps. everything always falls into a natural balance and people play how they wish. Trying to justify your stance with the fact that there is a war going on is not a valid point.

It is absolutly a valid point because the war is integral to the game, and the whole franchise.

 

All of the Holonet history entries are about war in some way. Every flashpoint or operation is about war. Every story touches on it. All of the cinematics advertising the game depicted war.

 

Branching outwards, both of the KOTOR games either involved war itself or the consequences thereof. Both of the key characters were war veterans.

 

The KOTOR Comics, centered around Zayne Carrick, not only took place and depicted the mandalorian wars, but also showed the Jedi Covenant's willingness to try and prevent another war with the Sith.

 

Tales of the Jedi, the first comic series to touch on the Old Republic era, functioned on war and conflict.

 

The original movies themselves and the majoriy of other star wars media are based on war.

 

The first thing we ever found out about The Galaxy Far Far Away, in the title crawl of the A New Hope, was that the galaxy was in a state of civil war.

 

 

That same title crawl actually has more screen time than either the entertainers of Mos Eisley. The ones in Jabba's palace clocks in at around 2 minutes

That I'm aware of, nobody has made a major story about either group, nor any other entertainers or crafters.

 

What you're suggesting is something that is completly disproprotionate from everything else in the history of Star Wars.

 

 

 

AAA ok, what your actualy saying is they can develope what you want but they absolutly cannot develope what you dont, got you.

You would have if I had ever said " I want ______". Not only did I not say it it was never even implied.

I have no problems with things being implemented into the game that I don't like. I've never done PvP, but it fits within what the game is trying to do and the conveyance of the war between the Sith and the Republic, so I keep my personal opinions out of those kinds of conversations. I'm not a big fan of the Cathar being the first new species being brought into the game, but it makes sense that it's the one that they chose.

When I do talk down an idea, its because either it doesn't make sense or doesn't belong.

 

Ow now i really see it, the wow mentality, sorry but this is not the poster your wanting to go up against, this is star wars and i will play it as much as i like. People will suggest ideas and when you get over your megalomania maybe you will understand that you have no say in what can be suggested, developed or implimented within the game. You cannot state what you can deprive from the playerbase content wise as if you somehow have control of what bioware develope for swtor.

You're right, your not the poster I want to go up against. The poster I want to go up doesn't make a straw man every chance they get.

Go ahead and play as it much as you like, i'm not going to stop you. I just think you would be alot happier if this was a completly different game, and I really do get the impression that you've lost the mark on what this game really is about.

If this thing is such a big deal and so (apparently) necessary, than what is it about the game currently that has any appeal to you?

 

Did I ever say that I was going to deprive you or the playerbase of anything? No.

Did I say that you or anyone else shouldn't post suggestions? Not actually. I made a (admittledly inappropriate) star wars reference about how the game that you're playing isn't the game you think you're playing, but not once did I (or would I) say for you to stop.

Somebody might have the dumbest, most poorly thought out, impossible to implement idea in the history of the forums, and I wouldn't tell them not to suggest it, because they have just as much right to say what they think as I do.

Did I say that I have any control over what Bioware does or not do? No. I said that I know what they think about the idea.

He is knocked to the canvas, the ref counts to 10, ding ding your out.

Not even in your dreams. The only way that you've convinced yourself that you've won anything is by creating things that I never actually said so that you can fight against what you've imagined i'm saying, instead of what's really there.

You've made enough straw men to populate all of the farms in the "bread basket" states.

Don't quote me and try to say for me what I've already said, as if you know what I'm saying or thinking better than I know myself. You do it everytime, and you always get it wrong.

 

If I say that this idea shouldn't be implement in the game because it doesn't fit, that doesn't mean that I only want what WoW has done, It doesn't mean that I don't want the game to ever introduce new things, it doesn't mean that I only want things implemented into the game that I enjoy.

It means that the idea shouldn't be implemented because it doesn't fit, and that's all.

[Droid playable class?]

IG-88 disagrees.

 

He can't disagree if he hasn't been created for another 3000 years. That technology doesn't exist yet.

 

It's also hard to justify making a class and story that tens hundreds of thousands of players will have the opportunity to play when the inspirations is one of a kind.

[Droid playable class?]

Yes, but according to canon, some droids became self-aware while other were damaged and became free property by taking out their masters.

Self-Aware droids are also feared by almost all sectors of the galaxy, particularly the official governments of the Republic and the Empire. Droids that exhibit that kind of behavior are memory-wiped, shut off, or destroyed

 

As for the ownership, your lead character in the legacy tree can be the owner.

That leads into two difficult scenarios that I can see.

A) How does the system know which character is your "lead"? by Legacy 50, you no doubt have multiple level 50 characters

B) How does the story respond to who your master is?

[Droid playable class?]

I'm just wondering, why isn't there a playable droid class? My main character is a Sniper Cyborg, and I honestly wish I could look like a complete droid. I'm talking about the body build like HK-47. I know there would be some things that would have to be worked on [such as some of the conversations options as a droid..], but I really think it would be cool. What's the point of all these droid parts and such if we can only use them on our companions?

Just an idea..

 

The problem is that all droids (Yes, even HK-47) are considered to be property, rather than a person. That said, it becomes very difficult to create a story (or for the current stories to be believable) when people are treating a talking piece of furniture like an actual living thing.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

That makes absolutly no sense, what your stating is that people who spend all day on the fleet doing not alot are just being npcs, so in that sense lets delete the fleets. A social player having no effect on your gameplay if you do not wish to engage with them is not in some way making them an npc.

Except I'm not. 0-1

I'm saying that if the only thing an entire class can do is the same as an NPC, than just keep the NPC's.

What individuals do is moot point: the class only has the potential to do one thing, whereas all of the classes we have now have the potential to do several.

 

 

 

So what your actualy stating is that this is a good idea, as the original concept of swg was a game that allowed you to be anything you wanted within the sw universe, what you stating is that you dont want to nge the game thus you want to unlock the potential gameplay elements within the game and unlock the mantra of themepark only. Think about that next time before answering. Because this isnt a radical departure from anything in the game, no class's would be deleted, no combatant roles would be adjusted and no skills or builds would be deletd or adjusted because social classes were implimented.

Except i'm not. 0-2

Nowhere did I say if the idea was good or bad. All I've ever said is that it doesn't belong in this game.

 

 

 

And i am stating that the emulator is illegal, untrusted and unfinshed. I am also basing the 100k figure on the number of people who actualy stopped playing swg when social class's were ditched, so that is a rough estimate of the playerbase back then that were activly interest and playing that gamestyle.

Right, because every single one of those players is going to be interested in a predominantly themepark game that has a few character where you can roleplay cantina rats, and pay money for it.

That's unrealistic in my opinion.

 

But here is a fact you cant get away from. without doing it you gain no new potential subscribers for that element of gameplay.

The Old Republic is still the 2nd most popular MMO out there, so I see no reason to deviate from the current strategy.

Also considering that there are several mmo's that don't touch that element of gameplay at all and are successful, clearly this isn't a necessary submarket to tap into.

I'd also wager that it's not a very large one, or else somebody would have tried by now.

 

Player A would not be limited from doing what player B does. If a player creates a tank class with no healing abilities are they somehow deprived of what another class can do, no they can play with a healer or create a second char who is a healer to enjoy that aspect of the game. Just in the same way a player who has a combatant class could simply create a social class to alternate the gameplay between chars, a social class would have no balancing issues with combatant classes. we have more then one char slot so what you say isnt viable as an argument.

It's absolutly a valid argument. With any one character, I can go do warzones, flashpoints, engage in a long 3 act narrative, progress to level 50, do operations, do Heroic missions with up to three friends or total strangers, advance my Light Side/Dark Side score, improve my Legacy, and so on.

Social characters do none of this. That's unequal, and thus players are going to feel it as being unfair. I shouldn't have to change to a different character just to play a certain type of content.

However, a player has to change from a social character to a combatant anytime he wants to do anything in the game as originally intended, and that's not good.

 

 

You counter yourself here, your now stating that the social classes would out number the combatant class which in that statement your saying that this would not only be a good investment for bioware development but also the fact that your stating my guess of around 100k players wanting this as grossly undervaluing this concept.

Except I'm not. 0-3

I'm stating a hypothetical idea based on the Theory of Large Numbers. "IF" should have been a good clue. IF all classes were played equal ammounts by equal ammount of players (and the Theory of Large Numbers states that the larger your value set, the closer it will be to equal distribution), you would see just as many noncombatants as you would combatants, in a game that is all about war.

 

Please show me where bioware said that.

Predev forum, was a statement made by Daniel Erickson. Can't find the actual quote, but he does exactly use the "Luke Skywalker v. Uncle Owen story" comparison.

 

 

So what your suggesting is that nothing new is ever to be developed for swtor, nothing fresh, no concepts to be developed and no features that have not already been proven in other mmos. And what mechanics and and themes are you refering to here exactly, is it the themepark and sandbox themes by chance becuase im pritty sure the mantra for this game is pushing the boundrys for a unique game.

Except I'm not. 0-4

I'm stating economic fundamenals. If you work on adding things to the game that weren't supposed to be there, you can't work on the things that are. That's not to say that they shouldn't try things that have never been done before or that they should never develop new content.

What it is saying is that there are things that this game is already trying to do that can be done better, or simply have more of.

It does not make any kind of logical or economical sense to spend all of that time and money on something entirely different when it can be spent improving what we already have.

 

 

And at the end of the day if you dont like them dont play them, but dont for one second try to deprive a part of the payerbase and community outside of the game an aspect of the game simply because they dont fit your ideals of this perfect little war you have in your own mind.

I don't have to. With the way that you set it up, Bioware will NEVER bite at it. The aspect you're talking about was never going to be a focus of this game.

This isn't a sandbox MMO. This is not the kind of game that you "live" in, and just because you pay money for it doesn't mean that this is negotiable.

 

 

This is not the game you are looking for. Move Along.

[4 combat class's / 4 social class's]

Who has said anything about a 3rd faction

you did.

 

the hutts and the voss are still neutral, they dont take sides, some people within the race may limp to one side or the other based on there own beliefs or profit but the race's as a whole are still neutral. So have they appeared, yes they have as you named 2 of them.

There's more to it than that. The Voss not only don't side with either group, they generally don't trust them. How do you explain a society that doesn't trust outsiders to suddenly start trading or entertaining for them?

The tired "individual" or "exception to the rule" argument? How does that work out when you have tens of thousands of "exceptions" the rule?

At that point it becomes a new rule that breaks the supposed cultural norms that were already set up.

 

 

 

 

And have i said anything about making a crafting class, no i have not, i have stated that allow the social class's to craft social armour. Now i know this must be hard for you to understand but lets take this slowly. social class can make adaptive armour that you can purchase upon social vendors. They would have the ability to reverse engineer event armour and then create it for retail in the future.

This would have no effect on the crafting that is within game, the armour type is already in game and it is a way to introduce future adaptive armour for retail on the gtn in the future.

No effect also means no purpose.

Why make a class that is nothing more than an NPC?

 

 

. Dont forget you were stating before that we were trying to 'nge' swtor when infact the 'nge' was the method to turn swg into a themepark game.

I was saying that and I stand by what I said, and it's funny that even explaining it several times, you STILL completly missed what I was saying.

The New Game Experience was a radical departure from what the game was supposed to be.

You are proposing something that is a radical departure from what this game is supposed to be.

Therefore, what you are proposing is the same as The New Game Exerience.

This has nothing to do about making something more or less themepark or sandbox, and all about what the game IS, and what you are trying to make it be.

 

 

And the only argument you have come up with is that you dont want it, and as for an emulator they are illegal and to advertise that as an alternative is actually against your eula here.

Except I haven't actually said that. I wasn't advertising the emulator at all. I was simply stating that your magical number of 100,000 players being interesting in this idea is simply a figment of your imagination.

 

 

 

It brings into the game an alternaitve gamestyle within the game not currently available within any mmo on the market, it expandes the roleplaying aspects of the game and helps to build community and populate fleet bars and currently unused social hubs on planets.

No it does not. Any roleplaying aspects that can be brought about with a social class can already be brought about with any of the other classes.

There are ways to utilize the social hubs without having to make entirely new classes.

 

Yes they are as the only playable aspect at the moment is dependant on taking a combatant role within the star wars universe, there is no facilitation of the gameplay within the game without access to these templates that social armour pertains us to be able to achieve.

This doesn't synchronize well with what you said above. If the reason you are presenting the class is to be better facilitate roleplaying and socialization, than being a combatant class shouldn't matter. If it does matter, than that should have been stated sooner.

 

Why do they have to goto level 50 exactly, they dont have to have the same level constraints as a combatant player as there gameplay isnt dependednt on ilvl of gear and stats stacking to overcome a pve or pvp enviroment.

Because the game needs to function on equivalancies. It's a strong foundation of game design, that while the player may have different choices in how they play the game, they should be given equal opportunity and equal ammount of content regardless of what choice they made.

A player should not feel "punished" because their character will only ever be able to be half as high of a level character as someone else just because of the class they chose.

 

You intergrate them into the game in the sense that they are living in the worlds created for the game, they dont take a pivital role in the war or any combatant roles within pvp or pve, If they are factioned they could take there role as a spy syndicate part of there faction gathering intel for there faction whilst not actualy engaging in combat of any kind.

Except for the fact that they aren't. You have a bunch of hedonists that do nothing but reside in bars and cantina's. It's the only hub a noncombatant class could ever access.

And there's still the point that if all classes are equal, you're going to see just as many dancers as you are going to see soldiers. Just as many characters that create social gear as there are that use lightsabers, in a game that is supposed to be about war and conflict.

 

This is about being a lando calrissian or the entertainers that played for jabba. this is about being a twilek slave dancer or a musician throwing out tunes from the star wars music libary, earning there way supplying small buffs to players and possibly increasing there rested xp within social areas, selling social gear and just having fun cos thats how they like to play.

And this is what I've been getting at earlier about things not fitting. What you are describing and suggesting is exactly what Bioware said this game is not supposed to be.

 

This gameplay cannot be done via a combatant role, the combatant roles require to level via combatant activities, it is false of you to state that we can do this with the class's we have now. We cannot be a jukebox, we cannot craft social armour, we have no reason to ever enter a bar for a social reason nor dance and we cannot play instruments and play music with others, we cannot attain new dances and the things like the glitterball would be perfect for this. There is no draw for social none aggressive actions within the game. NONE at all. And ading this would not take anything away from the combatant part of the game but it would enhance the game alot more then just stacking pve and pvp content only.

It takes away more than you're willing to admit. Not only is there the not fitting with established themes and mechanics which you have repeatedly ignored, but there is also the economic concept of Opportunity Costs. The time spent on something that was never supposed to be in the game in the first place can not be spent on something that is.

There already is a jukebox, you can already buy social armor, and while you may be correct about not being a one man band, that sort of thing doesn't belong here (as has already been stated)

 

How does /dance (or whatever method you want to use) somehow equate to being social?

Being social has a more connotative meaning of engaging in a friendly conversation with someone, and you can do that with any other player from any place in the server.