[The "Leia" archtype]

...I can see it now...Very little combat during missions, but a [censored] load of talking and social choices...mostly concerning negotiations, treaties and political whatsahoozit and...z z z z z z z z z z z z z z...

 

...Wanna level Social? Party with a Diplomat...

 

Not really. The Noble would have to level and progress the same as any of the other characters. Besides, you don't gain social points in spectator mode.

[The "Leia" archtype]

the very nature of those two suggestions is far from mirrored, but I like them both as suggestions - tho an IRS i think we'll never see as they can easily be portrayed within the agent class alone- perhaps as a 4'th shared tree or the like if BioWare expand on what they already have created.

 

A universal-cross-faction class with politician, noble, merchant etc for inspiration? - overall I think we need more social sanboxy stuff and clasess for this to work within the very-extremly-choked-follow-the-yellow-road-theme-park BioWare has created

 

Problem being is twofold

A) that a sandbox game does not work with a well orchestrated story like Bioware is famous for.

B) that one class that does sandbox stuff doesn't work. MMO's succeed by everyone being able to do all of the content.

 

I think the Leia/Noble story would be really nice to explore. Using your political clout to try and accomplish things that the Galactic Senate can't.

 

The various acts could deal with helping ensure that vital systems don't defect, keeping your family's financial security, fighting accusations of treason or vigilantism, and so on.

 

I'm sure the books have probably delved into it, but I don't think any of the games in Star Wars have delved really deep into the political mechanisms of the Galactic Republic.

[The "Leia" archtype]

it is a funny thing to think of. If you look at the prequal series though, a diplomat can use guns. At the moment the two most closest to the Leia archetype in the game are (in forms of AC) Scoundral and Operative, but they are still way off.

 

If you look at the original series the same applies. Leia used her gun (or was willing to do so) more often than to talk her way through problems.

[The "Leia" archtype]

I don't believe there is one. Unless BW/EA can make a diplomat class

 

I for one would kind of like to see it.

[The "Leia" archtype]

I know we have most of the major character archtypes as the classes that we have already. Han Solo, Darth Vader, Bobba Fett, and so on.

 

Is there a "Princess Leia" Archtype out there, and if not, would anyone else be interested in playing one?

[BioWare developers should play KotOR]

The differences between what Knights of the Old Republic is, and what The Old Republic could be, are massive.

 

Firstly, KOTOR functions off of 3.5 d20 rules and is strictly turn-based. That doesn't bode well for a multiplayer game, and is downright impossible for a game with PvP in it.

 

Secondly, narrative control. KOTOR was able to dynamically alter the enemies in each of the worlds to what level you were so that you could visit any of the 4 main planets in any order you so choosed. Because TOR is a persistent online world that multiple people are using at once, you can't do that. As such the narrative is much more controlled.

 

Thirdly, the most memorable part of Knights of the Old Republic is the story that it told, and this game kept that focus, that rythm, and alot of the same themes that were present in KOTOR and the original trilogy.

[Do something BW!]

It sounds to me to be a lot chicken little nonsense.

 

Remember when (insert game here) was supposed to bring down (insert other game here)?

 

Just like any other game, there's going to be alot of hype involved. Just like how TOR was the fastest growing MMO and than taperred off over time, GW2 will do the same.

[Thanks for ruining SWTOR bioware]

Wait, since when were the forced transfers happening on the 30th of July?

 

I'd like to know that as well.

[I don't care how many.....]

If he didnt care then he wouldnt have come onto the forums and posted that he didnt care. Since he did post it shows that he does care/is worried.

 

This is suppost to be an MMO, which is a virtual life for players. If you dont care about how long its going to be around then you shouldnt be playing an MMO.

 

Horray for people trying to say how others think without any real evidence thereof.

 

I for one really don't care what other people think of this game. You can like this game or not, doesn't make an iota of difference.

 

Where I DO get involved is when people try to say that I am somehow "wrong" for what I think, and there are plenty of those here.

 

I am curious why I should automatically care about a MMO's longevity.

 

An MMO isn't a virtual life. An MMO is a game that you pay money for. Like any other product in the world, once you value the enjoyment the game gives you less than your subscription, you stop.

 

I'll continue to play the game until I don't enjoy it anymore and not a day longer, and when that happens Im certain there will be another game I can enjoy.

Why should I care any further beyond that?

[Port KOTOR 1 tot SWTOR]

I know the difference (and have played the KOTOR games multiple times), but I was suggesting a port with intact SWTOR mechanics (graphics, but also updated swtor based leveling, and of course having multiple people). It would just be a additional story/questing line. A lot of things/ideas could be put in there.

 

The problem is that the mechanics of TOR don't work for KOTOR. The latter is a turn-based d20 RPG that only has 4 variable attacks, and TOR is....not.

 

What you're asking for is not a simple port of the game but a complete restructure of it.

[I don't care how many.....]

It's pretty obvious that he's upset about the notion that people would care about this game's popularity to the world and is angry that other people have allowed that to impact their enjoyment of the game and is making an attempt to belittle the opinions of other people by repeating a mantra that he wont stoop to the level of allowing those things to impact his own personal opinion.

Belittling? Not at all. I don't see any implications of belittling other people.

"I don't care what you say..." is entirely different from "you're wrong to say..."

 

I'm sorry that you can't see that, probably because you agree with him, but it's fairly apparent if you're capable of reading between the lines.

I think you found something in the lines that isn't really there. It's not antagonistic towards you or anyone else. It's simply complete indifference to other people's opinions.

 

I've had my share of enjoyment from the game too, but it doesn't mean I have to forgive and forget all of the mistakes I've seen and the mismanagement of the entire project, which is what he's obviously seeking to do, nor does it mean that my opinion of the game is any less valuable or constructive than his.

If you actually look at what was said and not "between the lies", he's not saying that you should forgive and forget. He's not saying that you should like the game.

All that is said is that he doesn't care wether you or anyone else don't like it.

[I don't care how many.....]

It's comments like these that reveal the type of people that are still playing this game.

There's a complete disconnect from reality. The game has been losing subs left and right.

To think this game is growing is plain delusional. No offense.

 

I love how in threads like this no one can list any examples of what they like in this game. Haters can list hundreds of significant examples, but you people don't list any.

 

I did see one comment about how they really feel immersed in the star wars world.

And I find that hilarious. This game has the worst immersion I've ever seen in an mmo.

 

Welome to game design. Anyone in the business will tell you that it's easier to find the faults in the game than the plusses, particularly when you're talking to normal gamers.

 

And, more specifically, who cares what the reason is for enjoying the game? They enjoy it and that's all that you need to worry about.

If I have 6 reasons that I love the game and you have 10 reasons that it sucks, does that automatically mean it's a bad game?

No. We're talking about a completly subjective opinion about the entertainment value of a videogame.

[Why Hero Engine Bioware?]

Look at Aion, it is probably one of the best looking MMOs, if I am going to stare at a screen for years to co e it might as well be a nice sight.

 

And also look at how its subscriptions have fared. No better or worse than other mmo's.

 

There has never been any correlative data between how good the graphics of the game are vs. sales, especially in the MMO market.

 

What does drive purchases and subscriptions is content, wether story driven content or not, people play games for what they can do, not what they can look at.

[sandbox/thempark and how it relates to swtor]

But the great about the personal storyline is that you can ignore it completely and ...

 

Which is EXACTLY what I was saying about how sandbox games make the story of the game entirely redundant.

 

If your goal is to make the best story possible in an MMO, you don't make a game where the story can be completly ignored.

[sandbox/thempark and how it relates to swtor]

Go and try to actually read what I said at the top of this thread.

 

I missed the part where facts and logic were involved.

[sandbox/thempark and how it relates to swtor]

the mechanics that you use in game development are based on what your games mission statement is, and Bioware's mission has always been based on story. They even said as much in the announcement trailer for the game.

 

That said, sandbox style gameplay doesn't really help a deeply story-based game. In many cases it makes the story completly redundant.

[sandbox/thempark and how it relates to swtor]

Really? Then maybe you should explain this to all the WoW cloned MMOs that have released and since either gone free to play or closed down. Regarding EVE - growing slowly is the idea and its been very successful. Just because a game doesnt have the dizzy numbers of WoW but is making a profit = a success.

Going Free to Play is not in on itself a bad thing. Sure, alot of MMO vets cringe at the idea, but both subscriber trends and market analysis both suggest that's where the future of the genre is moving.

 

But, I would say that themepark MMO's are still showing more financial success because at least those games are still being made, even if some don't last long.

 

What was the last AAA sandbox mmo?

[Why Hero Engine Bioware?]

The benefit from making their own engine, or using a more tested one like Unreal engine is that they can fine tune it more, and then there is performance.

 

An engine is everything, from the sound you hear to the low system-function calls to print something on the screen. These things needs to go fast, and right, use as little memory as possible with good result. This is why licensed engines like unreal is good to choose, but Hero was still brand NEW and not even fully developed when they started developing swtor. This is what we're seeing with all the problems today.

Apparently I'm not seeing what you're seeing. What "problems" are there that I seem to be missing?

[Why Hero Engine Bioware?]

. I thought the engine was the critical part of the MMO, am I mistaken?

 

Yes. Graphics do not make or break any videogame (despite what the Crysis developers tell you). All an engine does is provide context and help create a certain feel for the game, and many engines cover the same ground.

 

 

I for one see no reason why you would bother making a new engine and inevitably still have issues, when they could just license the Hero Engine for alot less.

[Why Hero Engine Bioware?]

The engine really isn't that bad. It certainly isn't the worst part of the game, and a "better" engine doesn't actually make the game any more enjoyable to play.

[New Class Suggestion]

I'm curious though what the character archtype is.

 

All of the other classes that we have fulfill a (stereo)typical Star Wars Mold. The Luke Skywalkers and the Han Solo's and so on.

 

What doees this character do?

[Entertainer Class proposal]

Just wondering, you know the rock band and guitar hero stuff, does that plug into pcs and work ?

 

Only if you bought the one specifically for the PC.

 

I can sense where your mind is going, and no, it's a bad, BAD idea.

[Entertainer Class proposal]

Im actualy lost as to why your trying to make me create a whole back story for them ?

Because you disagreed with me when I said that you can't make a 3 act story on entertaining and make interesting, and in fact what you have so far isn't even that. it's not about entertaining, its about being a cover operative.

 

 

And again all those, Bringing space isnt consistent, we dont have space now, we have mini games. they are bringing in pazzak, we dont have anything like pazzak so where is it. Show me where the whole of the playerbase have stood up and said dont make an alternative, show me where bioware have said its got to be consistantly this class but not this class. Explain to me how you can state it isnt a valid gameplay when lucas has said it is.

True, space by itself isn't consistent with the rest of the ground game, because it's not the same game. However, all of the space combat missions are consistent with one another.

All of the class stories, while very differen narratives, function and are paced in a consistent manner.

All of the abilities are triggered in a consistent way.

All of the armor for each class is designed in a very consistent aesthetic.

All of the classes are consistent with each other

And than your class comes in and breaks up all of that.

 

Also the reason why no one bar swg in this market is probably the same reason no one did player housing. That answer is world of warcraft, every game creater followed the design of wow because wow made all the money and everyone has to have a bit of that pie.

Explain why games that came out before World of Warcraft didn't have them either?

 

And obviously 'people' want an alternative, i want an alternative, others in here do. And if bioware were ever to put a poll it would show that a section of the playerbase want this. Also whats so bad about having social features in the game exactly from other areas of the multiplayer world, if they make money from it then that is a proven feature.

They may want an alternative, but they don't want it to feel that way. They want it to work, look, and behave the same as everything else, and be able to do the same as everything else.

The Porshe Cayenne, an SUV, may be an alternative to the normal german racecar, but it is still expected to be and have everything that you would normally have with a Porshe.

 

 

So ask bioware and the bioware writters what story they would do for them.

I'd tell you, but you wouldn't believe me.

 

 

Now are we judging this on player skill and dificulty of content, guild they are in or gamestyle they play. As a player you chose what you want todo, what your stating is to re design the whole of the game to incorperate this into main classes instead of doing one bit of development aimed at a specific market of players just like arenas are aimed at a specific group of players and how space is.

I'm stating to add dance and instrument macros into the class, which is around 1% of the work that is necessary to create two classes, two different story arcs, all of the voice-over and lip-synching work, all of the abilities, the armor and equipment, the mechanics, the new locations, and beyond.

 

 

Show me someone who wants to complete all content and ill show you people who only want todo one part of the content.

That doesn't matter. The point is that they have to have the option to do any of it if they so choose. Next to nobody is actually do all of the content, but everyone needs to have the ability to do any of it.

 

 

All players would be able to, not all classes will. It is designed as such and its a choice you will make just the same as gamestyles is a choice.

The fact that not all classes will be able to do it is the problem, and I've said this so many time I feel like I'll get a better response talking to a wall.

I understand that's how you want it designed. What you don't understand is that it's a BAD DESIGN.

 

Please explain to me how players leveling up in the combat gameplay and getting a bonus for taking a time out in a rested zone for a buff and gaining rested xp for doing it is not encouraging breaks.

Because if their character is still logged in in the cantina, than they're still playing, and haven't really taken a break.

A legacy reward that increases the xp gain when you log off actually encourages breaks.

 

 

And the people who are entertainers shall stay, the people playing the entertainers wont be spectating.

I'm missing how this is supposed to be "socializing". This sounds like two seperate games operating in the same space and nothing nomre.

 

And whilst leveling or doing dailys you will have a companion out and not doing flashpoints, operations, warzones or group finder. But you hit on a good point, people in the group finder q could quite easily spend there time waiting for it in cantinas talking and interacting with entertainers until there group finder pops, the whole time they are gaining rested xp at an increased rate.

They could also, and most likely are, actually doing stuff to level up their characters while they wait. Since they are returned outside the flashpoint entrance once they're done, there's no real penalty for jumping in the middle of something.

And there's the other concern. The majority of characters in this game so far are already at the max level. What incentive do they have?

 

 

Its a defunked point, the spectators shall be the people gaining the buffs who will be the combat classes. the entertainers shall be socializing and encouraging socialising by having a presence within cantinas which can be used aslong as entertainers are within that cantina.

I'm still missing how this is socializing. I can be social anywhere in the game. What's the big deal about it being in a cantina?

I am still waiting for you to explain to me why your rules break down btw as smugglers dont smuggle and bounty hunters dont catch bounties

Their ability sets are associated with what their class does in a story. gunslinging, sneaking around, and such or using a great deal of tools to capture any target fits what you understand their class to be.

Where-as all of the dancers abilities are all about dancingn, all of the missions are actually about covert operations and subterfuge.

And by the way, The bounty hunter DOES track bounties for all three acts of his story.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=261596

[Entertainer Class proposal]

Your assuming that these arnt tied to the SIS, and whos to say they arnt part of imperial intelegence, the fact is that they are and that is who hired them in the 1st place and who they work for and whilst they are leveling they are being trained, everyone starts at some point. Also the sis have an agent discussed as an entertainer outside cora spaceport.

If they are full-on part of the SIS, or so on, than why not make it an Operative class? Make the person an Operative disguised as an entertainer, rather than entertainer doing Operative work on the side.

It provides more options, not just mechanically but narrativly.

 

 

Havoc squad go after the old havoc squad whilst leveling, and kicking the door in isnt the most subtle of methods also the bulk of havoc squad arnt exactly soilders and more mercs and a crazy droid. It is funny blowing a senator up on the seat though.

 

True, it's not subtle, but it doesn't need to be, and more to point, Star Wars is very seldom about subtlety. You said that the entertainer can get places the other character can't.

I stand that a team of soldiers can get anywhere they want.

And by the way, they are actually all soldiers. Every one of them (Minus 4X) has an alliance rank.

 

Jedi also dont poison people, kidnap people, Steal intel and plant false information. And any jedi stepping foot on an imperial vessel would be detected by the sith onboard it.

There's the Jedi Covenant, and Jedi are capable of hiding their Force Sensitivity.

 

 

It is optional, if you read what i stated there main combat is space, not that it revolves around space and if we are getting full 3d space to the degree people are thinking space will be as big as ground when it hits. Also consistency isnt key, variety is.

Consistency IS the key. Any good game you have ever played or heard of has been consistent from beginning to end.

 

A dancer on the imperial side is still a dancer on the republic side, doesnt require a mirror as they have no relevent role in pvp so there is nothing to balance it off.

They still need to not look and feel like the exact same class. It also shouldn't be the same story from either perspective.

 

People have the same choice now when they hit advanced class, they wont be limited from making another char, to state that people will not realise is painting a rather bleak picture of the type of people that play.

Except I don't lose out on not being able to play certain content by making that AC choice. I still have all the same options

 

Players want features, they want options, they want alternative game styles, This feature is not aimed at everyone, it was never intended to be as such. And plenty more wont play space, i dont play pvp but im not crying about ranked or new battlegrounds, its swings and roundabouts, one set get something then another set do.

Players want features and options, yes. They don't want alternative game styles. They want things to look, feel, and behave the same throughout the game. This is why nobody does Social Classes without being a complete Second Life social game.

 

To you it maybe unacceptable, but not to all, no character is capable of doing everything and stating they can is just a myth your beileving. And whilst every char is capable of doing all content that doesnt mean all players are forced to nor do they. Its the option you take when playing. Also they arnt pacifists they are just no where near as strong as combat classes with no companion. Also players cannot have all crafting profs, so some may have biochem, others cybertect etc etc they each have a bonus to being them but not everyone can have them as they have to pick one.

Find me a quest that my Trooper can't do. Show me a warzone that a Imperial Agent can't participate in. Show me a Sith that can never join Operations.

True, not all characters are players are going to do everything but they MUST have the option to.

It's not just unnaceptable to me. It's unacceptable by any means of good game design. Find any book on game design and they'll tell you the same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because the point of increased regeneration of rested xp is to promote the socialising of players in rested areas across all worlds where entertainers are levling with people of the same level, not just the fleet. This is set so people watching gain a presence buff to help them whilst leveling or doing dailys and the entertainers can get social points for doing it.

But that's not what you said. You said it was to encourage breaks.

 

 

That doesnt make everyone go into one space, that just makes people go into one space once, it also creates huge ammounts of work across the whole game and what do you replace the vendors with when you move them from the original area they came from.

And dancing will be any better? As soon as they get the buff they're gone. This is why I say its not ACTUAL socialization: it's spectating.

I also don't think a buff to Pressence is going to be very highly sought after. The only time that works is when you have a companion out and it doesn't even contribute that much. If you're doing a flashpoint, operation, warzone, or group quest, it becomes completly bunk.

If you want something to increase actual socialization, you want something that its active rather than specatating, and something that can be used no matter what.

[Entertainer Class proposal]

Darth_Halford, let me expand the idea onto you of how this will work and keep the narative.

 

You have a mission at lvl 30, you currently have 3 companions not counting ship droid. The mission is to head into deep space and meet a ship, the cover story is that your the entertainment for a military vessel of the opposite faction hire out of nar shadda. You board the ship and walk through the cargo bay and meet a dignitery at the main door, the cutscene starts.

 

You chat for a bit have some options of light chat, try and get some info out of them and possibly raise interest into why your asking which would make the mission a little harder or not press them and keep your cover fully intact, the cutscene moves on to show you performing a show and you look to your companions who are performing with you and one of them nods to you. you bow and walk off the stage with one of your companions whilst the others keep entertaining.

 

At this point you have to get around the ship without being seen, cameras do sweeps from left to right and you have to time it right to not be seen by the cameras. if you are seen you have the option to tell the person who comes to investigate that your simply lost and looking for a bathroom or something or take a dark option and you distract them whilst your companion sneaks up behind them and slits there throat and then hides the body.

 

Do this to many times and the ship will go onto red alert and roaming patrols will come out that make your job even harder, if this happens you have to utalies your offensive melle skills and the companion who is stronger then the average companion due to presence being your primary stat.

 

If you get through without being seen, you head to a terminal and download all the files on the computer, at this point you have some choices, set the self destruct and leave it at that, hit the self destruct and disabled all lifeboats and put it on silent alarm so the bridge dont notice or leave it and let the ship survive and not kill anyone on board.

 

You head back the way you came and if you didnt trigger the alarms before try not to trigger them on the way back, go back on stage, another cutscene you start performing again, nod to the companions you left performing, finsih the act and retreat back to your ship.

 

If you set it to self destruct when you exit the ship it will explode behind you and either killing all on board who you left trapped, just blow up the ship or they are none the wiser, you hand of the intel to whomever it was that sent you for it and continue in your story.

 

Now if i can think up a story like that of the top of my head then you know for sure that the bioware writters can make one ten times better.

Problem right away is that what you're doing as a story has absolutly nothing to do with what you actually do as a class.