*Headdesk* I'm sorry, but you really don't understand the point of this MMO no matter how anyone attempts to explain it to you. You have 3 whole melee classes to choose from, you have goodness knows how many different permutations that you can build for those characters - when are they not using their sabers? Really - explain to me precisely when they are not being the Jedi you so demand? Then you have 1 class for all the rest of us who want to heal or stay at a distance to cast Force powers and do less melee combat - please, why do you want to take away the one class that won't do what all the others are doing? I don't understand how you know anything about the Jedi and whether or not they "should" carry a saber if you know nothing of the lore asides from the films...where you have Jedi not using their sabers and training without them....*cough*Empire Strikes Back*cough* I'd like to see you back up your evidence that any saber carrying Jedi SHOULD have many melee skills. The creator of Star Wars disagrees with you. He had some say in the making of this game and what went in it He even sanctions and directs most of the stuff in the Expanded Universe where there are characters who forgo or rarely use their sabers in favour of the Force. If George Lucas says there can be ranged casters of the Force I don't really see how your argument stands up that ALL Jedi should be melee combatants simply because they carry a saber around with them. A Jedi, as far as my reading of a heck of a lot of lore tells me and from playing this game, can carry a saber and either fight with it or rarely use it in favour of using the Force. I have plenty of evidence to back that up and not just what I think should be right just because I feel that way.

I've got a Level 50 character with purple level 50 Mods in it and the best hilt my creds could buy (Hilt 23 or something) and also wearing a few bits of Collomi gear or whatever it is called with lots of purple mods and armour in the other bits that are not - I should be able to do some good damage - we shall see. Your numbers sound about right though, that is good damage for a character that is not supposed to be using a saber that much.

So you'd be fine if you saw a non saber weilding Jedi in the movies, but not in the game as it is? Did you see Yoda pick one up in Empire Strikes Back whilst he was teaching Luke? If we hadn't had the other films, you could say Yoda, in his old school ways, never picked up a saber to be a Jedi. Just something I'd throw in there. As for pretending you are doing damage, I will do a quick test tonight and tell you what damage I can do with Double Strike - last time I checked it was not that bad but I can't remember the total, so will get back to you on that.

What is wrong with Force Project? Rock/R2 robot/Floor etc in the face to the enemy is rather cool isn't it? No doubt saber hurling is also a worthy thing to be mucking around with, I'm perfectly happy for the Knights to be able to do it - possibly even Sages... though Force Push might be more funny, but I rather like the idea of the Jedi recycling old robots or flooring to be used in the defence of the galaxy!

To be honest, the offensive powers for a Guardian are just as weak as Single Strike and Double Strike - Force Push hardly does anything, Statis too does very little damage - they are more there to interrupt so you can get back to doing what you do best, which is hitting things in the face with sabers. Same as the Sage has something weak to make up for all the harder hitting things, Smuggler has the same, Trooper has the same.

Tharan, dear Tharan, what an interesting chap he is! Were it not for my Jedi calm and patience, I too would agree with the OP that he might need a little quiet time in the airlock to think about what he has done! I like having Tharan around, when he does heal, he REALLY heals - when he is busy looking at his watch, no doubt looking for more interesting Holiday pictures, probably not so good! Yes, his voice and anti Jedi stance are not really good material for a companion that has worked with Jedi in the past and should jolly well know that The Force is what we do! But, he is a good companion in a fight, depending on your build of course. So for my Sage it goes like this: Fenton...sorrry, Qyzen will run headlong into a fight, whether you want him to or not, switch his shield on or whatever and scatters the nice little clump of enemies you had targeted to group kill with Force in Balance or Forcequake unless you turn that off but why would you do that when it does cause a bit of damage? Irresso - really nice guy, I like him tons, don't quite know how firing the blaster in the air actually does damage, but I guess if you are a healer and you kit him out really well, he could be excellent. I am not a healer, so using him is difficult but not impossible. Zenith, perfect for a sociopath, who would turn on you should he disagree with what you are doing - good with a rifle and again, like Iresso, keep him well kitted out and healed, he'd be fine. Just too grumpy for me, I'm a nice guy, I like working with nice people! Nadia, fun, naive, little bit shaken for obvious reasons, but excellent to have in a fight - might have been taking lessons in the Fenton...sorry, Qyzen School of dispersing clumped up crowds, but still, impressive none the less, good with a shield and a few heals. So then we get to Tharan - fantastic healer and professional creepy weirdo - probably best if your character is male, then you don't get all the weird flirting! My poor female Sage has had to fend him off so many times as "no" is something he doesn't work well with! But, for both my Sage and Shadow, he is invaluable, when he keeps me alive, he does it ever so well - more so when I take him along with Guild friends, his Holiday stun works very effectively, especially playing alongside a Trooper or Smuggler who can range shoot everything whilst enemies are stunned. I understand the OP's decision to have him hurled off the ship, but I also understand his worth, he just needs to shut up! (By the way, C2N2 apparently might be getting an upgrade in the 1.2 patch from tomorrow, I do believe that those of you who would like to get minus points in his affections will be able to do so! )

Have not noticed that the Guardian uses the Force to augment it's melee attacks? The Guardian does not use too many ranged attacks at all, if any, everything is all about being as close to the enemy as possible - Force Leap draws your right to your enemy - Force Push is there to interrupt your enemy from doing their special moves - Force Statis is there for you to stun your enemy so you can beat it up some more- the others available to a Guardian are all saber related skills designed specifically for a melee class. Sages use the Force to augement their ranged attacks, because Sages are designed to be a ranged/distance class that fits in with an MMO setting. Fact.

What is it about the Telekinetic type of Sage that screams anything other than "make sure my enemy is nowhere near me when attacking"? (I'm not talking about healers, that is a different class but has its reasons why it is ranged too - I'm soley concentrating on damage dealing like a melee class would) You have ranged powers which hurl many things or you can target whole groups, if you plonk Force Potency on, from nearly 35 metres away. You have stuns and lifts to stop enemies in their tracks, you have Force Speed to get the heck away from your enemies, Force Slow to stop them chasing after you so quickly, with Telekinetic Throw to slow them down even more. If they do get too close, blam, Force Wave sends them sprawling off in the air for you to get the hell away from them or have a bit of time to heal yourself before legging it away. To reduce damage taken you have your nice squishy armour and the Force Armour, which you can if you set it up properly, can blind your enemies should they get too close, so you can get better distance away from them. As someone has correctly pointed out, you use your saber for defence, not attack - you deflect blaster bolts, deflect melee weapons for long enough for you to get the hell away! What in the name of Yoda would then inspire you to want to get anywhere NEAR your enemy to go and bash it over the head with your saber repeatedly after all that? Are the powers you've been given not enough? I've recently got some better armour and crystals etc for my saber - I can do some serious damage now from afar, my Force skills are getting better, some day I'll have some better stuff coming if I can complete hard modes etc The only reason I see Bioware gave this ranged caster a couple of melee moves is if you have your enemy down to bad health but can't, for some reason, use the big powers, your trusty but minor damage saber skills can possibly get you out of a mess if you are lucky. But it is a last resort only. How many times does it need repeating that Sages are NOT melee combat classes for a good reason? Everything about the class is to do with distance, being away from your enemy - that is what an MMO ranged caster is designed for! What use more combat would give it would only make it over-powered or in need of better armour to make it more durable in combat - but we already have those classes - so why bother? You can still look cool with your saber by your side but really, you are fighting a losing battle if you think changing a ranged caster into a better melee fighter is a good idea.

It was me joking - if you read the whole sentence - Obi Wan never in his life sneaked around and neither did Han Solo EVER complain about it in A New Hope... it contains what I hoped would be the right amount of a hint of sarcasm! I apologise for any confusion caused, I was making the point that if the movies are going to be the only source of lore ArlindoGMNeto was going to refer to then there was evidence to be shown which backed up what I was saying.

The way I see it is you have the football, sure, you could play basketball with it, you have that choice, but you really are asking too much of it to be more of a basketball than it could be. You've got basketballs for basketball, they are designed that way, you could use them for football but it would really screw them up if you did. What you are asking of the Sage is the same thing as asking a basketball to be more of a football, it REALLY doesn't need it. You've already got footballs, you already have Melee combatants who can use the Force to varying degrees depending on how you put them together to suit your needs in this MMO - why bother changing them simply to suit a need that doesn't make sense? I'm still no closer to understanding why you'd want to change it, this is an MMO - there are designated mechanics for different roles in each class - be it Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Trooper, Imperial Agent, Sith or Jedi - they all fulfil various MMO roles. These could be healer, tank, dps, ranged etc - when the creators of footballs created the football they wanted to sell, they really didn't anticipate people dunking them through basketball nets, their main intention was to make sure people could kick it a lot. Same with Bioware - they stuck together a set of classes each having a different choice of MMO roles within those classes. Making a ranged caster a better melee combatant is not what they had in mind when they put the Sage together and neither should they for the future - it is doing its job as a ranged caster or healer - NOT a melee combatant. They put other classes together for that and I'd advise playing them.

I'm pretty easy going myself, not at all worried about the game, a few things I may not like but on the whole, nothing game breaking, I'm cool with it all I don´t really care much about what lore says dude, im talking about feel. I don´t feel that a jedi should be sneaky, and thats MY opinion. People may think otherwise, of course. Obi Wan never in his life sneaked around and neither did Han Solo EVER complain about it in A New Hope... You don't care about lore but you care about what happens in the movies...aren't the movies part of the lore or am I mistaken? Watch the fight between obi-wan and anakin. See that brown thing obi-wan take off before the fight? THATS a robe. Much different from the skirts (i know its a lower robe but whatever) that BW force consulars and imp counterparts to wear. And btw, im NOT confortable using one on my (female) sage. Then take a good look at the Jedi Knights - my Level 28 Knight is looking very much like Obi Wan these days. Im not talking about choices, im talking about freedom to tailor YOUR character, not choosing a given archetype. Can a guardian wield double-bladed sabers? Or a sentinel single ones? Where is this "abundance" you talking about? People who play a given jedi class, be it a sage, sentinel and etc, want an unique character, but they are forced to go with some locked choices BW gave them, like saber types, gear, and a few others. You describe a Jedi you want, it is in the list and then you moan about not being able to create the character you want? I was very right, you are extremely difficult to please! You also are asking for Bioware to overhaul the game completely to change it from being a standard MMO to something else - all that work, all that development, testing with not only their own people but with the public too, coding, programming over all the years they have been putting this together - good luck with that. If you had actually been following the various events that have been happening you would know that more customisation is in the pipeline - 1.2 I do believe has changes to the UI and also changing the armour colours etc with a mind to further improvements later this year. But I do not think that a complete overhaul is necessary, you have the characters, you have the skill trees, you have the abundance of choice which you don't seem to understand is there! Like I said, you want a single saber weilding close combat and Force proficient character with the sort of robes Obi Wan wears- you CAN have one and you can customise all of its skills and armour to suit your gameplay. I really don't understand why you keep insisting you can't do that. I objected only to the guardian animations, (baseball bat lightsaber ftw, and i DO NOT expect BW to make sages like melee killing machines. All im saying is that as a jedi (even with the BAD design BW came up making them mage-like), sages have a lightsaber and they should at least be given some skills to USE THE FREAKING THING. Or take their lightsabers away and call them mages, force-users, or whatever. You CAN use the saber as a Sage, I hate repeating myself over and over! You keep the saber skills you had before you became a Sage and you can make them reasonably effective - the abilities are Single Strike and Double Strike. Use them if you want to, they are there, you can do damage with them, you can defend yourself with them - stop asking for melee moves when they clearly have them! But please remember, they are a CASTER class and therefore do things AT RANGE and should NOT be in close combat for too long!

This is the problem when you are given too much choice!

First off - Guardians don't have to be tanks, they can be DPS, have a look at the Vigiliance skill tree, it is for damage, rather than defence Secondly, read the post after mine, Jedi are not just about lightsabers, they are about the Force too. Third - Shadows are not "Rogue" Jedi by any standards, in lore they are members of the Shadow Council, put together to fight the Dark Side and there is nothing wrong with what they do with the Doubleblade saber, it works just fine - please see YouTube of any videos of Shadows in action, they are pretty devastating with the Force and saber. They do not wear "skirts", they wear robes, vast difference. Besides - a Sage wears very much the same stuff - how come you are comfortable wearing what they do but not the Shadows? You are asking - as I keep having to repeat - for a badly armoured Ranged Class - to be a melee fighter. Why? Because you "feel" that any Jedi who has a saber in their hand should automatically be proficient in its use, regardless of lore saying otherwise. This makes little sense to me. Why on Tatooine do you want or think a badly armoured "skirt" wearing Force wielder would be good or effective in melee combat? You keep mentioning lack of freedom to choose - sorry, but how much more choice do you want? It is in ABUNDANCE! Guardian - Can take massive amounts of damage or deal it out - using Force techniques to bolster these skills - can carry 1 saber and has really good armour for close combat fighting - Uses Soresu, Shien or Shii Cho saber forms Sentinal - 3 different types of Saber Forms to choose from - Juyo, Ataru or Shii Cho - also using the Force to bolster these incredible skills. Can carry Two sabers to deal more damage than a Guardian, if damage is the more important attribute. Shadow - Another choice of Lightsaber and form to either use the Kinetic tree to really go to town in the saber and Force weilding or a choice to be a Stealth based character, using the Force and saber skills to work with it very effectively Sage - MORE choice again - if you want to be one of the best healing classes in the game, here you have the chance to be just that, even with the nerf batting they are getting this month OR you can be a Ranged class, dealing damage from afar if you prefer to do that rather than close combat. Seriously, tell me where you have not been given a wide range of choice? Look at that list and tell me that there is not a Jedi class there that you have not described as being what you want. You have objected to the melee animations, the clothing and the "feel" and yet still insist there should be a Jedi who should be a melee capable, trouser wearing, Force user. You sound like a very hard person to please.

You like Force attacks? Sentinal, Guardian and Shadow all have them, Shadow has the most. You like hitting things with lightsabers? All 3 carry lightsabers that cause significant melee damage. Where are they going wrong? You have made excuses as to why you don't like the above, even though it flies in the face of everything you actually want out of your Jedi and yet you insist on saying that the one ranged class that isn't designed in the slightest for melee combat, should have melee combat abilities. Furthermore, you have complained about how Bioware have done the animations for the melee classes. How on Tatooine are you ever going to change your mind on this when you accept two completely opposing arguments? As one poster rightly said - you'd be better off lobbying for better Guardian animations, it would be a lot easier for you.

I disagree completely, I think the Consular is a heck of a good storyline and very inline with what I'd expect from Star Wars. There is a reason why the Jedi Masters are all as they are, the end of Chapter 1 alone made a lot of sense to me - each Master was different, each world story was different and there were distractions inbetween the story in the bonus missions If you are looking for more of a fight, go and do Jedi Knight for all the action that gives out - the Sage is on the whole a diplomat and student of the Force, most of the story is focused on precisely that - diplomacy and the knowledge of the Force with the extra lure of the Dark Side. The whole storyline is a build of of minor crisis situations that in the end requires you to act on what you have been taught and how your decisions affect your destiny. I've played the Sage story all the way through, I was very impressed and took my time to absorb it all in - there is no rush! (Call yourself a Jedi? Learn some patience! ) I'm currently giving the Jedi Knight story a run and like I said, that really is more action orientated - you are hurled into as much trouble as you can Force Leap into, it is just as epic as the Consular story but in a different way.

I'm not entirely sure I can help you. You want a ranged class to be melee and you don't like how Bioware have put together any of the melee classes. Forgive me for saying so, I promise this is said without a hint of meaness or sarcasm, but I'm not holding out much hope that you'd like the Sage with melee skills.

Great idea, I've heard all sort of complaints for the story, I loved it! Its why I am doing it again as a Shadow! Where to start? The Building of the Lightsaber! That gorgeous moment when you get your ship! Taris: Nar Shaddaa: Belsavis: The ending: I loved playing the Sage story, I felt like a proper Jedi throughout the whole thing and I feel it was really rewarding!

You have 3 Classes completely devoted to the saber, who are melee classes, who use the Force. Can you really not allow that there is one class devoted to the Force more than the others? The Jedi started out learning the Force first, check the lore on it - they brought the sabers in second, well the Sith brought in the ones you are familiar with now, but nonetheless, a Jedi is predominantly a Force user, that is their wont. You've brought this up on another thread and I've done my best to explain to you that the Sage is a ranged class who DOES have melee options but the Sage is too squishy to fight in close combat for too long. You can use Double Strike, Single Strike, you can use your saber to charge your Force powers (Force Potency) you can block blaster bolts, block other sabers, you can use your saber to be more powerful in the Force - why do you need more? They have already had to nerf the Sage because they were too powerful - giving them more melee would mean you'd have to give them better armour, doing that would make them overly powerful - they are FINE how they are. This is an MMO - not KOTOR or KOTOR 2. Bioware have said since the start that this is not a sandbox game - they learned the lessons that Star Wars Galaxies made when they let things get out of control and I don't see why Bioware should make the same mistakes. MMOs require different types for different jobs - the Sage has been designated a healer or a Ranged Force DPS, they are not tanks or off tanks, they can't be, armour is too squishy. The reason you have 4 different classes for Jedi is really simple, so you can work as team with the other classes, each of you bolstering the weakness of the others. You have a ton of choice of saber and Force classes, you have the Shadow which I think would really suit your needs from what you have been saying -possibly even a Guardian could fulfil your love of sabers - seriously, why don't you give them a go? Can't you just leave those of us who want to use the Force more alone and chose your saber from all the other classes that are specifically designed to use them?

I have 3 female characters and 1 male - doesn't even occur to me that it matters what gender they are - don't let it freak you out, there is nothing wrong!

Staying with my Sage, might have to learn a few new tricks but on the whole, not worried in the slightest. I'm dreadful at this game as it is - can't get any worse!

You do have Melee skills - Double Strike and Single Strike which you can rank quite highly during your leveling up, get the right crystals and mods and you could do a reasonable amount of damage with them - hows that? Though I would repeat - the Sage is a Ranged class - fighting is the last resort when you can kite away from 35 metres away and pretty much almost stop most of the enemies who want to get closer. You are too squishy armoured to play a melee character anyway, you don't want to be near anything, you want to be as far away as possible from melee fighting. This is an MMO, not KOTOR 1 or 2 - you have to have set designs for different classes - you need Healers, Ranged DPS, Off Tank DPS, Tanks etc - you can't just have one class for everything - look at what happened to Star Wars Galaxies, they did exactly what you are asking for and it destroyed the MMO completely. Have you played any other class? If you are looking for a type of Jack of all trades - the Shadow really is the closest your Jedi will ever get to that, trust me, you have the powers of a pretty decent Sage and the blade skills to back it up - the only thing you can't do is heal but medpacks are useful and they have pretty good defensive stuff like Kinetic Ward - which uses the Force to protect your Shadow with. If you are looking for more saber than you can wave a Sith at - Guardian or Sentinal - fantastic stuff, you can do some magnificent work with either of those two classes whilst using a bit of Force as well - Guardian's Force push is a hoot. There, you have 3 choices of saber and Force weilding to choose from, I fail to see where you can go wrong with all that choice. The Sage is not designed to be a fighter with a saber, the Sage is designed to fight or heal with the Force from far away. My advice is roll a load of alts and play saber or Force weilder depending on your mood because I honestly don't think your idea of a Jack of all trades Jedi would work in an MMO, it didn't in Star Wars Galaxies and it would not work for this game.

So Bioware got their own class wrong? A Sage is a ranged class, not a close combat class, that uses the Force more than any other class - that is the design. I posted above what a Sage does with the saber and that should be enough - it doesn't need anything more - why would it? It uses the Force to do the damage that Knights or Shadows can do with their sabers As I said earlier, I've got a Level 50 Sage - I hardly ever use my saber because I'm too busy using the Force to deal damage. I have a decent crystal in it, some good mods to buff up my character along with all the armour mods, implants, relics etc Would you prefer to scrap the the Jedi Classes and just have one Uber Poweful Jack of all trades? I've always thought the classes were designed to fit in as a team - be it with your companions or those who you can play alongside for Operations etc. Each class fills a gap in the weaknesses of the others to make a better and more effective team - you give the Sage more saber skills, you break that balance, you give it things that make it better than the others. The Shadow fills the role of Force user and Saber weilder design perfectly, though it is neither massively powerful in both, the balance is maintained very well, you can be a support tank with this character very easily. Why do you want a ranged class with close combat skills when the Shadow can do a bit of range and a bit of close combat?

But why would you want the Sage to do what the Shadow already does?

He stopped because he knew he couldn't get past the Jedi who he'd just seen wipe the floor with a ton of people including someone he could not defeat! Yep, I knew it, washboard abs and a sexy voice is the only important bit - danger is superflous! hehehe

I'm in disagreement with making the saber any better than it already is - why would you need a Lightsaber form for a Jedi whose primary weapon/healing device is the Force? You have 3 other classes for you to focus on the saber/s or the Force - in fact, the Shadow uses the Force and the saber in great balance - so why would you want to make the Sage more like the Shadow, when the Shadow already does that? The Shadow has techniques and skills directly utilising specific forms to do different things whilst also remaining quite close to the Force powers of the Sage. The Sage's main attribute is the massive amount of Force you can weild, more than any other class - you hardly need your saber asides from the occasional bashing of your enemy in the face because its funny! You don't need a lightsaber form - what possible good would that do? You use your saber for Double Strike, Single Strike, deflecting blaster bolts, parrying sabers and for channeling the Force through it, utilising the augments from the mods and crystal inside it. Is that not enough for a class dedicated mainly to the Force instead of the saber? I'd need more convincing before I'd play a Sage with a saber form, I've played to Level 50 and only now use the saber for a bit of a laugh or when I have stupidly run out of Force and need to fight my way out before I get splatted! I've played the Guardian and Sentinal up to around levels 20/21 - the difference between them all is vast and from a personal point of view, I'd encourage anyone who loves hurling sabers around to give them a go. If you are looking for a balance between Force and saber, go Shadow, from a personal point of view again, after playing it up to level 20, it has everything I think you need in that class and it is excellent fun to play. I am sure others with better experience could elaborate more, but I really am not convinced you need a form on a Sage.