Dralanna
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Posts posted by Dralanna
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So by making it a quest, Bioware is violating their own TOS and just using the players as tools to do it? Got ya.
LOL... I'm not the one making that claim.
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Your choice, and those are not facts; only opinions.
Based on the RoC, an abuse of a mechanism that creates Grief for others in places of gathering, and one that is Flagged as PvP, appears to be within the In Game Harassment policy.
Not opinions.... please show me where it says that there are areas that are safe? Please show me where there are rules that are PvE specific. Most importantly, please show me where the actions you are describing violate any of these rules?
You conveniently left out a few important parts of the harassment policy. I'll include them for you:
Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.
Since part of the event includes a quest to infect other people, I think you'd have a hard time proving that their intent was to distress you, rather than trying to complete that quest.
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I have not changed anything; was infected/ attacked in a Safe Zone x3 on a PvE server by a mechanic intended for PvP w/o permission. Simply because I now know more about the mechanics, and the ways others have been Griefed does not alter what occured to me at all.
And if it makes you feel any better, you may disagree or Ignore me anyway.
And yet, as pointed out numerous times... there is no such thing as a safe zone... you just chose to ignore that fact.
And yet, as pointed out numerous times... it is not an attack... you just chose to ignore that fact.
Unlike you, I will not ignore anyone's points... I will, however, refute the blatantly inaccurate ones.
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Evidently the mechanics itself is meant for PvP, as it alters Flag settings. And AoE effects do count as attacks, I believe.
Griefing others should be eliminated, and banned from the game, IMO.
I like how you change your tune. First you complained that people were infecting you in non-existent "safe" zones. Once that had proven false, you tried to claim that the infection was an attack and therefore violated non-existent PvE rules. Once that had been proven false, you now latch onto the mechanics, under certain conditions, involuntarily flagging you for PvP. That I can agree with... no one should force you to PvP. If someone does intentionally exploit the mechanics to flag you for PvP you should report it.
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Flagging other players against their will is griefing. BW has already removed several vectors for abusing other people in this way and indicated that such activity should be reported.
It's been a few months since I was last here, so I don't have a link for you, but I'll definitely be reporting anyone who intentionally PvP flags me using this technique. I have no interest in PvP ever.
(I guess I do have a link in my sig)
Except his complaint has not been about people abusing game mechanics to flag someone for PvP... his complaint has been that people are infecting him with the rakghoul disease without his permission... and that is what he considers griefing.
I don't think anyone can argue that intentionally flagging someone for PvP through the misuse of a game mechanic is not griefing.
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And again, Griefing spoils play for others.
One may ask for serum if knowledgable of the Chat system, and be sure to get vaccinated before headed to the Fleet, as Green Gooey Griefers are now witing for lowbie shuttles to land.
If you are griefed, pls Report it, or at least notify Bioware of the incident later. Prerhaps this way, it may be eliminated before the next event.
And once again you fail to demonstrate how this is griefing. How this violates any rules and is therefore worthy of reporting. But, please, don't let logic get in your way.
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Well. First of all. I'm completly new to SWTOR. I bought the game and started playing it this week.
So obviously I am a rookie in the game's classes, races, skills etc... BUT I am a veteran WoW gamer with roots all the way back to the end of vanilla. Wich says alot to those who know about WoW.
So I know about the event system in MMORPGS very well. and I approve of it most of the time...
BUT.
When.. I.. as a fresh player to a game.. stand in the Republic Fleet... and get infected on my lvl 10 character.... and my only solution is to go and buy a vaccine for 2000 credits? Ask yourself.. is that a good event then? Since I can obviouslly not take part in anything on Tatooine... What fun or use does it have for me? I'm learnign the ropes of a game I've just bought and started playing. And one of the first things that happen is that I am forced into something I can not control or even experience to the max?
I personaly feelt that it ruind it for me. And is that a way for a game to gain new players?
I do not care for if anyone tell me that you can buy a vaccine or that you don't lose anything on dying. Ask yourtself if you would have wanted one of your first experiences in SWTOR to be you wasting 2000 creds on something you can't even take part of because you are lvl 10.
I can certainly understand the frustration.... there is absolutely no way any event is going to be a positive experience for every single player in the game. But, as a former WoW player, I can assume you've been around for any of WoW's holiday events? If so, then you'd know simply asking in chat for info and/or help would've probably resulted in several offers of free vaccine. An MMO is supposed to be a social game... I get that many people play it as a single player (I do, actually) but the mechanics are usually built with social interaction in mind.
It stinks that you had a negative experience in what was a fantastic event for most people.
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Even sneezing on his character is griefing. True story.
Only if you do it without permission
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This may be found in the Support Section within the In Game Harassment file:
And you are correct; I am Ignoring you.
Again, I don't see the relevance in what you are quoting. Nothing in there describes what you are complaining about.
Of course you're ignoring me.... because your rants do not stand up to criticism. Much easier to ignore them. You're not looking for conversation or debate, despite posting in a public forum.
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As I went right to the vendor, I believe the others were either looking at cargo or something else; not meds.
Exploding on me forced me to choose to remain ill - was not there before, so someone gave it to me w/o permission -or take the serum. At the time, and still today; cannot believe Death is an acceptable option.
I am upset that Griefing is being overlooked as there seems to be little reprocussion. Then what of the next time? I am unwilling to wait and see how far the envelope will swell before becoming 'just a part of a MMO''; this game desrves better.
So you just chose to ignore everything I mentioned previously?
You have failed to demonstrate that there are any "safe" areas in the game... you've failed to demonstrate that this is a violation of PvE rules, or that PvE rules even exist. You've failed to show how this can be griefing based on the accepted definition of the term, and the given Terms of Conduct as laid out by Bioware. So in other words, you're a troll.... just complaining for the sake of complaining.
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If a Player attacks or effects another Player w/o permission; could be Griefing. And as far as Buffs; not personally, but I have had to defend myself in another game because of that., as some wish to RP illness and tragedy.
Sorry, there is no rule that says a player cannot affect another player without permission. None. If you can find one, I'd like to see it. Technically speaking, there isn't any rule that says a player cannot attack another player without permission even on a PvE server.
Nope; no rules or citations since the original Boards were wiped around launch. Still, we have several strong indicators of Bioware's original intent to restrict Griefing thru the implementation extant; eg; Corpse Camping is removed with the addition of 12 second Stealth and med Center evacs, no blocking, recent discipline issued for PvP explots, etc.
None of which gives any indication that there are areas that are supposed to be safe from everything. Despite any evidence, I'll grant you the fact that pre-launch BW called some area's safe. But safe from what? Even during the beta, it was possible to die on the fleet... so you weren't safe from death. I would argue that the wording was meant to mean safe from being attacked by the opposing faction. Which again, is not what is happening in this event.
As I said, I plan to Report it and allow Bioware make the call.
That is certainly allowed.... I just hope that BW responds to you, because I'm fairly certain what their response will be.
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Yes; listed in the New Players Guide under PvE Sever descriptions. I am guessing they mean send an Invite or Tell like any other Mission to join, but I have yet to explore this myself; simply declined several.
I don't see anything relevant in that section. All it really says is, "On these servers, you have the option to role-play as your character, and player- vs.- player fights must be agreed to by both sides."
There is no fighting going on, so that certainly doesn't apply. There is nothing there that says that anyone has to ask your permission for anything other than fighting. Out of curiosity, Are you also offended when someone buffs you without asking?
Pre-launch, Safe areas were described as the Rest areas, Fleet, Med Centers, and the like. And I cannot find any current Official PvP rules either. Having some posted in the PvP Forums would be helpful.
Can you find any citations claiming that there are safe areas? Or that in said safe areas you'd be immune to everything?
You can't find official PvP rules, because there aren't any.... the rules are the same for everyone, regardless of server.
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Not seeking out everyone; only the ones that do not gain permission properly (ie; Invite in PvE, Flag set in PvP; no Safe areas, etc). The Griefers.
Really? Has anyone heard of anyone asking permission?
Also, I hear a lot of made up terms in this thread. What exactly is a "safe area"? I've seen no reference to any area being called safe from environmental effects (or any effects for that matter). I've looked in my documentation that came with the game... I've looked on the BW website... I've looked in the in-game help section and found no reference.
Secondly, I hear several people mention that they should be allowed to play how they want "as advertised". Again, I'm not seeing anything anywhere that says you can play as you want. I see references to playing "your story" but, thats not the same thing, is it? This is advertised as a story-driven MMO... and like it or not, this event is part of that story.
Lastly, I've heard people mention PvP vs PvE rules of conduct. I've found nothing but a standard set of rules of conduct that apply to both play styles. There are no PvE specific rules of conduct that I can find.
Are there bugs with the event? Absolutely, the ease with which one can unintentionally flagged for PvP is problematic, and probably not intended.... but overall, in my opinion, this was a phenomenally successful event.
Honestly, I realize I'm not going to convince anyone (mostly because they don't want to be convinced)... at this point I'm just here for my own amusement.
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- Whisper Firewall. When a player attempts to whisper you a pop-up alert will notify you and ask if you want to accept this communication or ignore it.
Best idea ever!
But seriously.... there is a very simple way for these players to get everything they want.... it's called KotOR 1 & 2
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Except there is a wolf; several of them, and some of us do not like paying for rabies vaccine. Plus, I for one hope the wolves are banned from future events if caught.
If they ban everyone that infected another player.... well, then you would be playing a single player game.
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Thanks for the concern; will try and make sure not to be Griefed too often....
As for others, pls attach vids and other evidence to insure your Reports are seen as clearly as possible.
LOL, I'm starting to believe that you're really just being satirical.
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While I'd agree with that, it isn't our (the public's) decision to make.
Indeed.... if everyone realized that, this thread would've died about 1,000 posts ago
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And nothing will happen for the most part since the event is almost over and whatnot.
And, more importantly, because they've done nothing wrong
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It was allowed to happen because BioWare designed it so it was not permitted. So it really is a issue I have with the design of the event. Players will do whatever they can to maximixe the credits they can ..esp when it is soooo easy for them. The players can only do what they are allowed to do by the developers.
Wait... so in one post you say that immersion is very important to you.... then in the next post you want the developers to limit what the players can do so that the virulent plague wont spread to the fleet?
To be honest, the idea that some people could be allowed to opt out of the event breaks immersion for me.
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Erm, no. It's comparing it to PvP and it's contrasting it with PvP.
This is very basic, 5th grade English class stuff here...
With all due respect, what you said certainly appeared to me to be equating it with PvP. You say you weren't so I accept that... but I hope you can't blame anyone for drawing the same conclusion that I did.
You are absolutely correct that no one can tell you what you should or should not enjoy, and I'm certainly not trying to. I'm not sure what your experience in MMOs is, but I can tell you that I've seen many times a, seemingly, vocal minority complain enough to have features in the game change. All too often these changes have proven destructive to the game and/or community. Based on the responses in this thread, I suspect I'm not alone in that. So, the natural reaction is fear that the developers will once again listen to these complaints. Hence, the huge debate. It's really not about you convincing me or me convincing you.... it's about making sure both sides are represented, just in case the developers are watching.
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It's close to a violation of the PvE server "terms."
Look, you've been very reasonable throughout this whole discussion, so I apologize for what I'm about to say.... comparing this to PvP is absurd. I play on a PvE server because I abhor non-consensual PvP. I enjoy the occasional WZ but when I'm questing I want to be left alone. So I get where you're coming from when you say you don't want other players affecting you. However, there is a huge difference between this and PvP.
When playing an MMO, people are going to affect you... whether it's by killing a target you were just about to kill, grabbing a resource node you were headed to, undercutting you on the GTN, or splashing you with a virulent disease during a world event it's going to happen... you will be affected by someone else. For some (probably many) that is the appeal of an MMO. BW is most likely not going to change this... nor should they, in my opinion.
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Well, for one small thing, this is a Forum; not the game. And one has the option to Ignore me if they wish, as I have also used that preference several times now.
But I would call a Player attacking another Player (ie; PvP) in a Safe Zone of a PvE server a decent way to gain the Griefer tag.
Well, I'd dispute that it's attacking another player.... I also dispute the statement that the fleet is a safe zone. Has that been stated anywhere? Even if so, clearly BW intended people to be infected and intended them to spread that infection. Therefore, it can hardly be construed as griefing. Griefing(A), is against the TOS(B).... doing what the developers intended© cannot reasonably be considered against the TOS(B). So logically if A=B and C<>B then A<> C
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I can live with the stigma of being rigid in my stance; sure beats being a Griefer, IMO.
From where I'm sitting, I'm not seeing much of a difference
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Of course they did. Thus the poor design of the event in the way the plague is spread.
You're opinion... and that's fine. I happen to think it was a well designed event for the most part.
Remove the rakghoul plague now
in General Discussion
Posted
Boy you are really reaching.... not sure how being infected with the virus can be called a "Zone Disruption". None of the examples listed in that section even remotely relate to this event.
You're still trying to call this an attack? Well, the New Player Guide you like to use as reference actually covers that too:
When you start playing the game, you are given a few basic attacks and abillities that are unique to your class. These abilities differ for each class, but they generally serve the same purpose. To use these abilities in combat, all you have to do is click on an enemy to target them and then either: A.) Press the corresponding numeral key on your keyboard to activate a particular ability, or B.) Left-click on the ability you want to use.
As there is no button to push to spread the virus.... and left-clicking does not spread the virus... it's not an ability used in combat... and hence not an attack.