[I just... I am at a loss for words.]

Founder here.

 

Subscription cancelled.

 

What were they thinking with this update?

[New to level 70 - Question about Command Crates]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I really appreciate it.

[New to level 70 - Question about Command Crates]

I played from pre-launch into SoR, but quit playing before KOTFE and KOTET came out. I’ve recently returned and just hit 70 on a character (I’ve been messing around with alts and class stories).

 

Being new to command crates, I’m curious about something. Is there any reason to not simply open every command crate I get instantly? The interface for opening them seems a little odd and is making me wonder if I’m supposed to save them to open multiple crates at once or something.

 

Thanks in advance and any tips that would be relevant to someone new to this feature would be appreciated.

[Why is the KOTFE & KOTET story so terrible?]

1) Mono-Story that allegedly fits everyone - it doesn't, most of it makes no sense at all from a Non-Force-User point of view.

 

2) Plot holes, plot holes, plot holes. From wasting time making a Force Weapon we don't use, to Magic Force Shields just dropping in from nowhere, to things like Aric Jorgan teaming up with Imperials, to Theron being able to hide his intent from the Barsenthor, the whole story is full of plot holes you can drive a Death Star through.

 

3) Combat Pacing - corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor, 4 mobs, corridor Boss + 3 Mobs, and so on.

 

4) Companion Returns. 'Nuff said.

 

5) "Choices That Matter" that really, really, really don't matter... ...ever.

 

I suppose all of them can be listed under one heading: Appallingly Bad Writing.

 

All The Best

 

Lots of good responses, but I think this one hits most of the highlights.

 

It also just feels so long...like trudging through an endless swamp.

[Why is the KOTFE & KOTET story so terrible?]

it's terrible because it's all about some boring npcs and not about the player character.

 

• It just drags on. Especially chapters 8 and 9 of FE. The pacing was entirely off.
  
• The long corridors of trash mobs.
  
• The extraordinarily long cutscenes. Most notably the ones that don't involve your character.
  
• No variation if you do it on another class/character.
  
• Feels completely out of place on anything but a force user.
  

 

Feel free to add.

 

I think both of these are spot on. Moving the story to something completely generic made it necessary to erase anything about the player character from the story. Not only must every hero of the Republic be able to fit into this story, but so must every hero of the Empire as well. This necessarily means that the non-player characters become the main characters of the story. The player character has to be an empty shell with no characteristics at all.

 

I also agree that the pacing is way off. It just drags and drags and feels like a morass you are wading through rather than something you can enjoy.

[Why is the KOTFE & KOTET story so terrible?]

I love playing through the class stories and I also enjoyed the Makeb & Revan stories.

 

Why is it that I just can't enjoy myself playing through KOTFE & KOTET? Why does it feel like work instead of fun?

 

I'm trying to put my finger on it, but I'm having trouble figuring it out precisely. I think it has a lot to do with the eradication of the Imp/Republic division as an important point in the story and the way it bastardizes the Force with the idea that the Knights of Zakuul are somehow more powerful than the light or dark because of their more neutral path.

 

It just isn't fun. It doesn't feel enough like Star Wars. Who thought this was a good idea for a story direction?

[Why I stopped playing SWTOR]

The best story in any MMO is YOURS! Not the one that ends, all stories end...but the story YOU make after you've completed what was written. No developer could ever keep up making individual stories...heck, some can't even produce 5 Ops bosses over the course of a full year...but I digress...so I've always believed that the best story possible was the one that "I" make...not the one that gets me there.

 

I'm sorry to see you go...I hope you return.

 

The problem is that the game offers no real sandbox to play in, which means you don't really have the tools to create your own story. It is reliant on developer crafted stories because its design doesn't really make space for users to make their own.

[Vanilla content too easy]

People are entitled to their own opinions about whether it has become too easy or not, but it's a fact that it used to be much more difficult. I've recently returned to the game to play through class stories again and it is really difficult to die on anything labeled as solo content. That was not the case at launch. There were some bosses in the class stories that had abilities that would definitely kill you if you didn't get them interrupted.

 

What's more, there were only a handful of Heroic Missions that were easily soloable (while level appropriate) when the game launched. It felt like a real accomplishment if you were able to solo a Heroic 2+ mission. Now, nearly all of them can be soloed without even bothering to worry about things like interrupts or keeping enemies CCed.

 

It isn't just an issue of leveling faster either. You can be level appropriate for fights that used to be challenging and they are an absolute joke now.

[Who is the worst companion?]

I'm a little surprised that Elara Dorne is getting a lot of hate. I really enjoy her character. She is extremely capable and her defection from the Empire and fierce loyalty to the Republic makes her character really interesting to me.

 

On the subject of evil, it's subjective. You don't have to commit mass genocide to be evil, but most people are more complex than just good or evil.

[Who is the worst companion?]

At that rate, that just seems like the only connections would be black hoods and shooting lightning from ones fingers. I can make a double-bladed assassin that looks like Maul too, but the character story in itself in no way fits Maul's archetype (even though I'd venture to say that it does fit Maul more than Sidious/Palpatine).

 

I'll just agree to disagree...we play the game and it's characters however we want in the end.

 

We can play the game and it’s characters however we want, but it’s a fact that the inquisitor was heavily inspired by Emperor Palpatine in the same way that Boba Fett inspired the Bh and Han Solo inspired the smuggler. It’s not really a matter of opinion. You can disagree all you like, it doesn’t make it any less true.

 

Whether or not that fact makes Ashara an inappropriate companion is certainly subjective, but I think it makes the inquisitor (who is after all Sith) seem pathetic.

[Who is the worst companion?]

I'm not really seeing how the Inquisitor class is supposed to represent the Emperor. If that's how you want to role play it, then that's fine...but the class at its base really doesn't jive that way at all to me.

 

You're a slave...who trades one master for another. Then you are betrayed by your new master. Then someone else tries to kill you five minutes later...someone who declares war on you simply for existing. You work to gain a power base. You suck in some Force ghosts...who try to kill you. You cure yourself. You get involved in politics. You make friends with Darth Marr...who most definitely is not a fan of the Emperor or the concept of one person having ultimate power...

 

Most of the base classes in this game are inspired by archetypes we have seen in the movies. If you want to be Luke or Obi Wan you can be a Knight. If you want to be Vader you can be a Warrior. Han Solo is a smuggler, Bobba Fett is represented by the BH...etc...etc.

 

The inquisitor, especially the Sorcerer, is the Emperor Palpatine archetype.

 

Now, you can obviously play these classes in many different ways. I’m not suggesting that an inquisitor must be dark side. My point is that the inspiration for the class is that Emperor archetype that can manipulate and twist people to the dark side. Forcing a light side Jedi companion (who cannot be turned to the dark side) on that character is an inexplicable and bizarre choice that simply doesn’t fit.

[Who is the worst companion?]

I really don't mind most companions. Some aren't all that interesting to me, but they don't bother me. Ashara sticks out because she just doesn't fit with the archetype that class is supposed to represent. I'm trying to be like the emperor and I can't twist one prideful padawan to the dark side?! It makes the player character seem pathetic.

 

I'm seeing a lot of people echo my complaints about Skadge. He isn't an interesting character on top of being annoying and not fitting the archetype.

 

As far as favorite companions, Khem Val comes to mind simply because he fits the inquisitor so well. Yes, I'd love to have a dark side monster who once served a legendary Sith Lord at my side. Honestly, there are a lot of companions that I really enjoy. Jaessa, Mako, Kira, Scourge, Qyzen, Elara, M1-4X, Bowdaar, and Kaliyo are all interesting characters to me.

[Who is the worst companion?]

I nominate Ashara Zavros and Skadge.

 

Ashara makes absolutely no sense as a companion for the inquisitor. The archetype based on the emperor...a being a dark side power...and your companion is a zealous Jedi who won't abandon the light that you cannot manipulate to the dark side. Who the actual crap thought that fit into this character's story? It is the worst. I want to jettison her stupid rear out of an airlock the first time she tells me she won't abandon the Jedi teachings. Really?

 

Skadge is just annoying. My Bounty Hunters are professionals and Skadge doesn't fit with my crew. He isn't especially talented. He isn't professional or discreet. He is a blunt instrument in the hands of a character who uses advanced weaponry. I want to put a hook through one of his 17 chins and drag him behind my speeder through the all of Tatooine.

[Why do people hate the Consular and Trooper so much?]

The consular story was ok. It might be a little weak, especially when compared to the Knight story, but it was fine.

 

I thought the Trooper story was excellent in Act 1 and Act 2, but Act 3 was underwhelming. I don’t think they did enough to build up Rackton so your showdown with him felt epic.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

This was uncalled for. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't give you the right to talk to them like this and no I am not taking sides, just think this comment was out of line.

 

If it were only due to his lack of agreement with me, then it would be out of line, but that wasnt’t the motivation. I’ve made every effort to engage with him in good faith, but he either can’t follow the argument properly or else he refuses to do so. Either way, he is wasting my time.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

How else is he supposed to give you an example, post video?

 

I'm not taking issue with his use of an imaginary example. I'm saying that even in the imaginary example he created, it's far from clear that his assertion, that having 4 DCDs is always better than having two, is correct.

 

This would make them Over Powered. It’s also not a simple feat to change. They’d literally have to change every class and try and rebalance. That would be a massive feat for them to do because a. They can’t balance as it is, b. It would cost a truck load of money and resources that the game can’t afford

 

I don't understand why you think a tweaking numbers would necessarily make anything overpowered. There are lots of ways to balance things that wouldn't be overpowered. That's why you test changes and adjust the numbers before releasing them on the live servers and do hotfixes after they go live if they don't work out as well as expected.

 

I don't think it would cost an unreasonable amount of resources or money to prune some unnecessary abilities and do a balancing pass to compensate. It likely wouldn't be any more complicated than the way they changed classes at the beginning of SoR. The problem is that the amount of resources that the devs seem interested in investing into fixing their clunky design = zero.

 

Lots of people hate how dumbed down it made WoW

 

Which is why I've said several times that they shouldn't go quite as far as WoW did. You can prune without overdoing it.

 

Is it possible that it’s you and not us? You seem to be the only one wanting this change and you aren’t getting any traction with your argument.

IMO, it’s got nothing to do with change, I don’t mind change, I’m just adverse to change that makes zero sense and isnt needed.

 

When the primary people on the other side of the argument are willing to admit that the design is clunky, but focus their arguments on all the excuses for why it can't be better, it reinforces my belief that I'm not the one that is simply being stubborn.

 

If you want to blame the ability bloat or clunky feeling, blame the rotations which are broken or a bit off for some classes.

Also the multiple CCs, slows, mez and stuns. It’s because of those that we need all of the DCDs. If we didn’t have all of those, “then maybe” they could reduce the DCDs ever so slightly. Until they look at that, changing DCDs like you suggest is just wrong. It’s a completely backwards way to approach the issue of ability bloat.

 

If you want start a thread about reducing all those slows and stuns, then I’ll be more agreeable with that idea or approach.

 

It seems like you may actually agree with me. I am in no way suggesting that ability bloat is limited to DCDs. I was simply using DCDs as a glaring example of the problem. I think the number of CCs, slows, mezzes, and stuns is bloated as well. I'm in favor of scaling back on utility abilities to allow players to focus more on their rotations and fight mechanics. If you want complexity, it should be in the rotations. Some specs could be simpler and others more complex so that there is something for everyone, but that's where the complexity should come from.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

Olagaton, I’ll make this as simple as possible. If your notions about how balancing works were correct, then they could never make any impactful changes to gameplay without redesigning every fight in the game.

 

That’s obviously not how it works. If you can’t see that, then you are beyond help.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

LMAO, that was a made up example to illustrate the most obvious reason why we may need 4 dcds. It doesnt ignore anything else, it simply presents a specific scenario where 4 > 2.

 

The point is that even your made up example doesn't demonstrate that 4 > 2...because there are lots of ways to make the 2 DCDs in that example greater than or equal to 4 different DCDs. It only works as a made up example if you ignore everything but the number of abilities.

 

 

And no, it isnt as easy as changing numbers of the boss fights. Some classes dont have any dcds that protect against certain attacks. Some have more than others. Depending on the changes, some classes will need to have skills designed or redesigned to give them an appropriate dcd for that encounter. Dps needed may be impacted. Damage taken may be impacted. Healing needed may be impacted. All the while, all of the other fights (boss, non-boss, trash, PvP) are impacted and need to be rebalanced.

 

DPS, damage taken, and healing needed are all simply numbers. They can all be tweaked. This already necessarily happens on a constant basis. It doesn't amount to redesigning encounters. No matter how many times you make the claim that tweaking numbers = redesigning the encounter, it will still remain untrue. Repeating it after it has been debunked only makes your position less and less credible.

 

 

Or they can perform your butterfly effect and change one thing, causing a series of other unpredicted changes and the game ends off worse than its current state.

 

Absurd hyperbole is absurd. Ability pruning did not cause a butterfly effect that ruined the game in WoW because balancing is a thing that exists. This is the exact kind of absurdity that makes your position look increasingly ridiculous.

 

 

Clunky design CAN always be fixed, with enough effort and/or resources. But it has to be worth it for the time, effort it will need vs the impact it will have/wont have. As you can see by this thread alone, the impact will likely not be felt as there is some opposition to it being needed in the first place.

 

This thread doesn't in any way show that the impact wouldn't be felt. All it shows is that many of the people posting here are averse to change. Ultimately, your problem is that you grossly overestimate the effort and/or resources involved in addressing this clunky design because you don't understand how balancing encounters works and you grossly underestimate the impact because you have no frame of reference for how much better the design could be.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

My argument presents one of a myriad of reasons to not change things.

 

 

The fights are "designed" to be "A."

You want fights to be "redesigned" to be "B" to account for revisions to skills A, B, C, and D.

When numbers are an integral part of balance and how the game/fight was designed, changing numbers IS redesigning the encounter. Juat as when skills are buffed or nerfed (like happened recently), people needed to redesign rotations for optimal dps.

 

Perhaps you are picking at semantics, but my premise is still solid.

 

The argument in question was the one that talked about mitigating 4 abilities within 1 minute. That argument ignored that there are options for addressing that issue beyond simply having 4 different DCDs.

 

Tweaking static number values is not equivalent to redesigning the encounter. The encounter can progress mechanically as it always has with changes to the numerical value of damage being put out by specific abilities. This isn't a matter of opinion. Your assertion here is just wrong. You don't have to start from scratch or re-do the work of designing the encounter. You just have to change the static number values. That's a fact. It's doesn't change based on what you believe. If they find during testing that a particular ability hits too hard, they just tweak the numbers. That isn't redesigning the encounter. It's just changing some number values.

 

Frankly, your arguments have become more and more absurd as this discussion has progressed. You admit that SWTOR was a WoW clone, but then deny that it can possibly change in ways similar to the way WoW changed because...reasons? This is particularly ridiculous because, if anything, the differences between the games actually make SWTOR easier to change than WoW. WoW had more character classes and way more content to balance when it decided to address ability bloat. There is nothing unique to SWTOR which makes this issue more difficult to address in this game than it was in WoW.

 

Some of this absurdity is a product of the fact that you have basically admitted that the design is clunky, but because you are locked into a defensive posture, you want to pretend that addressing that clunky design is somehow impossible. It's not impossible. Models exist in the MMO world for addressing this issue. You can't just wave your hand and dismiss them because "we aren't talking about other games." Those other games prove that your premise, that this cannot be addressed, is flawed. They are relevant to the discussion.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

On the contrary. I feel like I'm looking at a bigger picture than you. Not sure where my argument shows laser focus other than to focus on the fact it will require massive redesign due to ALL of the moving parts involved. Its not just one change that affects one thing. And we arent talking about other games either. We are talking about this game, with this design. Swtor may have been a wow clone, but its not anymore, so what worked for other games does not ensure it will be possible or successful in this one.

 

Your argument shows laser focus because it only accounts for *number of different DCDs* as a variable to deal with incoming damage. It ignores the myriad of other knobs that exist.

 

Once again, what massive redesign are you talking about? Tweaking numbers is not a redesign of anything. Pruning abilities and balancing does not amount to a massive redesign. The parts in question aren't moving. They are static number values that can simply be changed. What are you even talking about?

 

This game isn't a WoW clone anymore because it hasn't changed with the times. All I am saying is that it should change similarly (but not as dramatically) to how WoW has changed. Your argument here essentially seems to be that SWTOR can't change the way WoW has because WoW has changed while SWTOR has not. That's not a valid argument. You are essentially saying that yes it used to be the case that X=3, but since 3+1 you can't X+1. That's nonsense. It's not just wrong. It is so poorly expressed that it isn't even coherent.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

1. Tweaking one boss would require revisiting all classes for balance (offense and defense to maintain challenge, right?) Multiply exponentially based on how many bosses need individual "tweaking."

2. My example is a single minute of combat. Those attacks dont necessarily have to happen every minute to prove the value of 4 dcds over 2 combined dcds. Again, to maintain challenge, those attacks would need to be separated, reduced, or changed in some other way, and then see #1.

 

Its multiple rocks thrown into a pond. Can't do that with 6 years of content to revisit unless you are dedicated to that change. So far the only motivation given in this post would be criticism of clunky design - likely not the best route to go to expect such massive changes.

 

1. I am saying that all classes need to have abilities pruned, so yes it requires balancing the classes after said pruning. Pruning abilities and doing a balance pass =/= a full redesign of the game. Yes, you will have to balance boss encounters. No, that isn't the same as redesigning those encounters. You most certainly can tweak numbers on 6 years of content. WoW manages to tweak numbers on 13 years of content.

 

2. Those attacks do have to happen every minute if you have DCDs with lower cooldown timers. The number of different DCDs is not the only variable that can be changed. You can adjust timers, duration, and strength of DCDs and then adjust the damage of boss abilities. There are lots of knobs that can be turned. You are laser focused on only one for some reason.

 

I don't know why you are so intent on pretending that numbers tweaks and pruning abilities is some massive undertaking. It has been done in other games successfully.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

Scenario 1 - 4 dcds

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd#1.

Player uses dcd #1, mitigates dmg

10 seconds pass

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd #2

Player uses dcd #2, mitigates dmg

10 seconds pass

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd#3.

Player uses dcd #3, mitigates dmg

10 seconds pass

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd #4

Player uses dcd #4, mitigates dmg

10 seconds pass

 

Total skills mitigated due to 4 seperate skills : 4

Total skills not mitigated resulting in massive damage taken/death : 0

 

Scenario 2 - 2 combined dcds

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd#1/2

Player uses dcd #1/2, mitigates dmg

10 seconds pass

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd #2

Player uses dcd #1/2 - oh ****, no he didnt, he just got blasted (or died)

10 seconds pass

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd#3.

Player uses dcd #3/4, mitigates dmg

10 seconds pass

Boss casts skill defensible by dcd #4

Player uses dcd #3/4 - oh ****, no he didnt, he just got blasted (or died)

10 seconds pass

 

Total skills mitigated due to 2 combined skills : 2

Total skills not mitigated resulting in massive damage taken/death : 2

 

How to fix this, adjust every boss mob in the game that has mechanics in between cooldowns - yeah, no game redesign needed for that type of change.

 

Is this guy serious, or blind?

 

There are a myriad of options, the simplest of which is simply balancing the boss abilities so they don't require you to use a DCD every 10 seconds just to stay alive. This doesn't require a redesign. All it requires is tuning. Bosses don't need 4 lethal (if not mitigated by a DCD) unavoidable abilities per minute. Make those abilities hit hard enough to require raid wide healing without instantly killing people who don't pop a DCD. That's not a redesign. That's tweeking numbers.

[So are we ever going to get Kira, Mako, Nadia etc back?]

What an incredibly cynical view. It's not the players fault that story enthusiasts didn't enjoy the story that was presented. There was nothing wrong with a monthly chapter, except they weren't monthly and the writing wasn't very Star Wars oriented. Perhaps if this was a less known franchise, people would have enjoyed that story but it did not have that Star Wars magic.

 

I must agree with this. The problem wasn't the system by which they presented the content. The problem was with the quality of the content they were presenting. The ultimate problem with KOTFE & KOTET is that the stories don't feel "Star Warsey" enough for most players and they don't feel like they have much of anything to do with our specific characters and their stories up to that point. There is no way to give that content to players that was ever going to be well received. The beginning and end of that problem lies with the writers. They did a bad job, plain and simple.

 

I find myself constantly making new characters to play through the class stories again rather than playing the newest content, because the newest content just isn't fun to play through.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

this discussion feels a little bit like someone complaining there are too many different pieces in chess when there could be only one kind and then somebody else points out that those pieces do different things and there's already a game like that anyway and it's called checkers

 

No, this is like if we all paid for a service that provided us with a car to drive, which gave us only 2 choices of car model (a super-compact car or a massive SUV), but allowed us to choose from 350 colors.

 

I'm saying, maybe we don't need so many color options and it would be better if they gave us a few more options of what type of car we drive instead. I don't have a problem with choice. I think choosing between 5 DCDs isn't the kind of choice that makes games like this enjoyable.

[So many defensive cooldowns]

Why do you keep ignoring the other part of this discussion. PVP PVP PVP.

 

As myself and others have pointed out multiple times now.. WE NEED ALL OF THE ABILITIES IN PVP..

 

And out of the 5 DCD, you can only physically use 4 in PVE operations and the other one is relatively useless in PVE Operations. So essentially YOU ONLY HAVE 3 DCD to use Operations. IF you don’t like having 5 on your taskbar, remove those 2 you don’t use.. PROBLEM SOLVED..

 

If you can’t work out how to use 3 DCD on a Mara, you probably have problems on other classes too because they all have more than 3 survivability abilities.

 

Sorry, but your argument is a 100% L2P Mara. It is one of the more challenging classes to play well, especially without a healer. Maybe try playing a more simple class.

 

For the seventeenth time, I am not having a personal problem playing this or any other class well. It isn't a L2P issue because I have never once claimed the class was too difficult to play or that I didn't understand how to play it.

 

What I have said from the beginning, is that I think this game would be more enjoyable if we exchanged less meaningful choices (such as which of several DCDs to use in a specific situation) for more meaningful choices that affect our damage output or even choices based on fight mechanics.

 

It's about what kinds of choices we make and how those types of choices affect the enjoyment level of the game.