Yes, that is exactly what it means unfortunately. But what do we expect? the "uniqueness" of the shadow/assassin made them also more effective in certain situations then the other tanks. this same effect made them less effective in other situations. the players griped about this difference, so they have removed that difference. simple as that. while I don't like it, i understand the logic. if they kept the self heals in, but added to the base mitigation, then the shadow/assassin would become better then the other tanks in most situations, and equal in a few...which would pretty much kill any need for the other two tanks. not sure why players think that they can make each class special and different, but NOT different when it comes to harder play. can't have your cake and eat it too. Uniqueness = differences in play = bad in hard progression, but more enjoyable play Homogenization = similar play = better for progression, worse for overall enjoyment of play. I don't like it, but after 10+ years in MMO's i understand that in this kind of environment, it eventually happens. if we want unique classes but still want to be able to complete all content, then the only real choice is to simplify the top end content. if your willing to accept that, then perhaps they can go back to unique classes.

Glad it's not jut me (sounding repetitive hehe). though i had my graphics settings out of whack. Nope. Harbringer server. my comp specs are nothing to shout about, but always did 60+ in most areas. barely sc****** 10 atm in Czerka. when I was on Makeb things seemed fine. It honestly looks like a graphical issue....when i switch screens i can see my UI initially, and hear things, but the rest of the screen is blank. then the graphical layers slowly come in, almost like in stages. very crude, basic graphics at first, then more detail in layers. can barely run around, choppy as heck. Didn't they have an issue like this last time they tried bringing in chat bubbles? my memory could just be getting old too.

Hehe I certainly know what you mean for most Dall...i ran without my juggernauts set bonuses for a long time because it made my stomach cring just thinking about wearing that gear! But ironically, there were a few sets that I loved, and i even started a class specifically because i liked the end game look (and it was fun to play too once I got into it). that being the Opoerative and the Trooper. and sadly, neither reached level cap before they snatched away my loved gear sets! And in all honesty i don't like ANY of the new ones....at all. I'd take the old sets over the new in a heartbeat. But either way, they really should bring those back in the game. even if they're on the market...though for fairness' sake, they should have a "legacy" or "archive" NPC that sells them for discounted comm prices.

Much appreciated Eric. WOrking in the networking field myself, I know how often an issue that seems simple ends up being horribly complicated to fix, how decisions often are made hours into a breakfix to roll back instead, and how a unified patch can take time to isolate and pull individual elements out of it to disable. Keep up the good work! I also believe that a small CC credit isn't that far off the mark. The nice thing about CC is you don't have to do it in big chunks. 100 or 200 would make allot of peeps happy.

PvE or PvP? both very different games. If it's PvE, the I suggest reading Matt's guide: 2.0 Guide: Guardian DPS for PvE Raiding Read the whole thing. his tips at the bottom for effective raid damage are golden...IMO those are more important then gearing. 5% of the population of a given MMO can fully optimize their class, but 95% of the player base thinks they're the 5% . so use his aproach to gearing and practice his tips as much as possible and you'll be fine. TLDR - str > accuracy to 100% > power > crit > rest. alacrity is still bottom for us. Don't just buy gear and equip it, switch out mods to get the most optimum stat makeup based on the list above.

Ya know it's sort of funny. I remember people being concerned about Guard/jugg DPS back before 2.0 as well, even though a well played Guard could put out the required numbers, even back then. it's easier for them to do it now...yet the old perceptions still linger. Having said that OP, the Guardian isn't the easiest class to get a decent DPS number out of. but they are for sure no longer the hardest (I think the smuggler falls into that category currently). But they can post good numbers when played well. they always have been able to. it was just tougher back in the day.

I think the real question OP is, How is your guild doing in the Ops runs with him in it? are you killing the boss, are things running smooth? are you meeting the enrage timers, etc. If things are going OK, then why worry? if you are constantly running into problems and are looking for places to streamline the group so you can actually beat the bosses, then it may be a concern. but if your doing fine...well, ultimately it's up to you. I'd rather bring a well played scrapper over a horribad commando or sent any day of the week. EDIT: I would go further to add that if your running progression, and your hitting a wall, I would require everyone to run parses first before I would drop someone because of a perceived class disparity. a single DPS performing at only 70% of their potential can cause issues...but if you make choices based on perceived class disparities, that person will never know that he is doing poorly, and very possible will not improve their ability. Iwould do parses first...and if everyone is doing reasonable well (within an acceptable range of what the class can do), and your still at that wall, then yeah..at that point id look at class disparities. But far too often I see people drop a buddy or player because of what someone wrote on a forum, rather then look at the real data. It's like the old saying, "measure twice...cut once." but with this its, "parse twice, judge once".Not saying your were doing this OP, I think at this point in speaking to the general issue. the advice applies though

This sums it up. the best comparison IMO is comparing an action movie to a british murder mystery ( a good one). the mystery has allot of depth, character development, and interesting lore. but you have to want to invest yourself into it to get that out of it. by contrast, an action flick will pull you in, one way or another. the loud explosions and blood and action till get your attention no matter what. although there isn't a huge amount of mystery to the JC story...but it is a good story. but like the mystery, you have to want to invest yourself in it. it won't pull you in with explosions, violence, and cute sidekicks (though nadia certainly fills the cute role..perhaps a bit too cutsy for me, but meh). and in all honesty, political negotiations are never really "exciting". and the LC is as political as jedi can get.

Unfortunately you fail to understand the design behind the AC's. that each AC has specialty roles AND DPS roles that are designed to be able to fulfill a DPS spot in progression content (and just about all of them do). a quick browsing of the parses on torparse will show this. Shadows deserve a DPS spec as much as a marauder does. Kitru, hope you enjoy your new pursuits. been browsing these forums a long time, got used to enjoying the threads we posted in. You were always a good resource. wish you the best of luck. to the rest: Kitru's leaving isn't some huge sign from the heavens that the class has issues. it's has issues for awhile. if anything the timing was a choice on kitru's part. nothing in the game forced Kitru to leave at this point. the vote actually brought her back for a small period of time. we'll have to see if the changes moving forward will attract back old school players. I've been here off and on since earl launch (followed the game a year before that). I've taken breaks myself. nothing wrong with that. it's not the impending hammer of doom. but we do need a class rep for the shadow, and the dev's do need to listen to the player base about our desires on how the class plays out. no matter what they want to do, at the end of the day, if no one wants to play the class, the dev's failed their job. But I have hope. they are moving in the correct direction on getting representatives for each class and focusing on the critical issues for each class by giving the rep's direct response from the class dev team. To me this is hope. we just need to not let up now.

this is pretty good advice. pre 35 or 40 you don't really need to worry about it much. in all honesty, i like the rage tree early on for the extra skill you get at 20 (obliterate). but if you want to be immortal up through the levels, then go for it. just work up the tree...its best abiliteis are at the higher levels. a few things to consider: early on, rage gen simply sucks. taking anything that helps with rage gen makes a huge difference in feel of play for early juggs (were a late blooming class). so the reduced CD on sunder, the extra rage from the same, the skill that nets you a free force scream after leaping...all amazing talents for early levels. beyond that just crawl up the immortal tree. and above all else have fun

Jugg Tank is in a good spot right now. they have amazing passive mitigations, and decent CD's. Threat is good, and there are no glaring deficiencies in the spec. fun and versatile spec. Assassins are in an odd spot right now. they have to deal with spike damage cycles that are borderline broken. the class is viable, but many are discussing how to best balance the spikyness out. they aren't really better, only have more situational control (if you could say that). If you like the playstyle of the jugg, stick with it, no tank spec at this moment is a shining star over the others. Of course, on the flip side, this also means that the other two tanks are viable, and if you want a different approach, go for it. the Assassin/shadow is very different from the jugg, and also different from the warrior in WoW. they must be very active in timing their defensive CD's to deal with incoming damage. that said, when CD's are useable, they have some of the best mitigations of all the tanks...but again, this is situational, which results in spikey incoming damage. but they are a fun class to play. Can't say much about the PT/Vanguard, don't play one at level cap. but they are like the jugg in that they rely more on passive mitigations then active ones. and they light things on fire allot.

glad im not the only one on that note...I've had my healers solo silvers before, and tank golds until could get to them. it's slower then my DPS or tank comps, but then again their job isn't to do damage, but to keep me alive so i can do damage. to the OP: the greatest benefit of leveling defense is flexibility. you can choose your companion, your situation...it allows you to make more choices then if you were a DPS spec. after leveling multiple Juggernauts (the mirror class to the knight), a DPS spec with healing com is the fastest overall....but thats pretty much all you'll be doing. with the Defense tree, you can bring in a DPS comp to kill faster, or a tank comp to help you hold other mobs, or a healing comp for really tough fights. and it also allows you to not have to worry about multiple gear sets as you level...you gear up as a tank and your set. not to put you off of leveling as a DPS spec...it's still my preferred approach, but Defense is definitely viable. if you like its feel, go for it. especially with the Knight...you don't get your healer comp till mid 30's, so that's not an early option anyways. though i have used my ship droid as a healer on my newest guard lasted all the way up to balmorra (where it started to show it's limitations...) but not bad at all. EDIT: something I will point out ahead of time OP. Tanks in this game are highly dependent upon assistance via healing and crowd control. it's part of design...so don't be too put off if your uber tank feels a bit squishy. I've seen peeps from other games complain about how the tanks in this game don't feel so "tanky". but I didn't have any issues.

I don't believe focus is bad. I leveled one of my 3 juggs in it prior to 2.0, and im currently leveling two guards (one focus one vigilance) post 2.0 because the changes have helped smooth out the rage generation early on. But after leveling both across multiple juggs and now guards, Im merely pointing out the differences between the two at various levels. If it makes you feel any better, I think that focus is actually a bit better then Vigilance up to the mid 20's. having obliterate early on is fun, and its gap closing effect is not to be understated. And to repeat: you can level with all 3 trees. I know guys that leveled without even choosing an AC. but truth be told, both vigilance and focus have their disadvantages. with my two guards in their 30's, my Vigilance guard still has smoother rage management. I'm just speaking from experience. after leveling both trees back to back, i find vengeance is smoother from a "general" perspective. the fact that i have one rage jugg, and am leveling a focus guardian, should show you that i am not anti-rage. the difference is not a good vs. bad...it's simply an apple vs. an orange...but when put down back to back I found vengeance to be smoother with less rage issues and overall a better survival curve (less downtime for healing and recoup). Rage has excellent mobility, and downs groups of weaker mobs at insane rates. both are viable. If I had to pick one, it would be Vigilance, but that is personal preference.

Most DPS companions are equal for most classes. Knights run into a special situation with Rusk due to the bug where he is under-performing. so I agree with the Kira sentiment. Course, I run heals for the most part, but when I pull a Dipser, its KakakakaKira.

I have never had to deal with many of these issues. I usually run him with his DPS stance on, and he still heals me like a champ. Shouldn't be any reason you have to turn off his attacks. even with the cryo freeze (thought that can be irritating at times), he still heals me just fine in most situations. the tips up to this point are spot on. a few suggestions: 1) hotkey the 'passive' button and toggle it on and off. this may get him back into action. Also make sure you don't have it off by accident...when his action bar is on the side I noticed it's hard for me to see if its on or off. remember that when it's on, he's passive. 2) watch for ground interruptions. anything that you couldn't step over yourself can impede him. if he's too far away, he won't heal. most issues with him have been fixed. if you are experiencing situations regularly where he won't heal you at all, and you are sure that he is NOT in passive, then you need to submit a bug ticket, for that is very abnormal. I've leveled 3 juggs to 50, and have multiples in ranges from 20-40, and have yet to experience any drastic issues with Quinn.

This. no GCD = free damage (based on time). if you are suffering for Rage, it's definitely not your first choice (same rage cost as VS). but if you have plenty of Rage, and it procs, its basically adding a strike withing a single GCD.

well, the best spec when leveling right now is Vengeance. Shien form gives you a ton of rage savings, and Rage development. although I'd also say that Rage up to mid 20's can be fun too. but it suffers from Rage production and useage in ways that Vengeance doesn't. For Rage managment, it sounds like your trying to micro-manage it a bit too much possibly. if your using Sunder smartly, you should have the rage needed for a solid rotation of skills (though it's really more of a priority cycle). the downside with leveling is that you don't have all the tools right away... At lower levels, ravage ASAP should be top priority. as you gain levels, this becomes less of a prio, but its still great early on in the fight. free damage, and a ton of it. you build rage while your executing it. It's not optimal for larger groups of weak mobs though. I will usually use it on silvers or above. outside of that. Vengeance gets a free smash, so using that on CD as you level is also good. my typical prio list on a leveling Jugg is: leap (throw if its available) smash If silver or greater, ravage check rage...more then 4-5? then use impale/V.slash. less then 4-5? use sunder, then followup with Impale/vSlash. Scream. once you get the talent that resets ravage, then use the proc as soon as it's up. keep in mind that a decent rotation prior to 45 will include smash, impale, and scream (and oftentimes one VS). in shien, a cycle of impale, slash, and scream will cost 8 rage (smash is free). 10 rage if you get a riposte proc. sunder is 5 rage every 12 seconds (with talent). given average rage production for the jugg, you can do one complete cycle per sunder I've found 9this is very generalized). So essentially you just need to throw, leap, smash (or ravage), check rage, and hit your cycle. you will often find yourself with excess rage after a few mob groups...just delay sunder a skill or two. often if i leap and i have half a bar of rage, ill throw out impale and a scream, and usually at that point I can sunder and follow up with smash or ravage or just a VS to dump rage. VS is your rage dump, especially pre-45. Got nothing else to push, and extra rage? VS. this happens more then you would think pre-45. the two best talents outside of the vengeance tree to help are Decimate and enraged sunder. i invest in those skills early on, even if i haven't capped my vengeance tree yet. the two extra rage per sunder is huge, and the CD reduction for smash really makes it fit into your rotation allot better. plus, with your free smash in vengeance, the extra damage and reduced CD affect you quite a bit.

Immortal is a great spec now. Is it top DPS? no, but it's flexible enough that you can back it up with a solid DPS comp and not feel to behind the curve....or go full tankish and feel invincible. I still prefer Vengeance for my spec of choice, but both Rage and Immortal are viable enough that it boils down to personal preference.

I don't play my Powertech much, it doesn't appeal to my playstyle. I have leveled and tanked end game content with both Shadow and Juggernaut. the two posters above me pretty much covered it all. Just thought I'd throw in a few pennies: I prefer the jugg over the guard due to combat animations. they are very different, and the jugg imparts a feel to the class that I simply enjoy more. they feel like they are pounding their opponent into the ground. Story is good too...you are following your sith masters orders on a huge plan unfolding as the sith leadership fight each other for power and control in the wake of a new war. lots of domination, difficult choices, and sacrifice...and even betrayal. Like the "holy crud I can't believe he did that" kind of betrayal. won't spoil any more though. the assassin is the mirror for the Shadow. they are less involved in empirical domination like the warrior is, and more involved in personal exploration, and discovering their ancient ties to some very powerful sith. i won't reveal too much, but they have some very suprising and fun twists to their story that make you go "wow...***?". if your looking for story, I'd say overall that the Sith versions have a slight edge in just "story". But im a big fan of being the good guy (it's my nature), and so dealing with some of the decisions that rock the sith world were tough. like killing the slaves instead of torturing them. I didn't have an option to free them.....so i decided on a quick death for them. lots of choices like that. repub side it's allot easier to do both good and dark choices, whereas with the sith stories, you pay a heavier price for doing "good", but it also feels better at the same time. Play wise, they are both viable In their DPS as well as Tank roles. Shadows do great DPS, but with the changes in 2.0, many of the original shadow players were put off a bit. but those that are still doing it are posting good numbers (they simplified the rotation...it's easier now). but Jugg's also can do DPS easier now, so i see them allot. the single saber is very iconic in the SW realm, and I think that imparts some popularity to the class. Play-wise, the shadow zips around allot with a speed buff, and drops force bombs, and goes sneaky-stabby (they get stealth). The jugg leaps around allot, throws their opponents into walls, off bridges...and gets to choke them. they are both fun, but different in those ways. try both. You may end up (like I did) playing them both to level cap. my Jugg did get there first though.

Soley PvE here. Juggernaut. Pure and simple. I play all the classes, but i have 3 Jugg's at 50. I am working on a guardian, but the animations don't pull me in as much as the jugg does. Very Visceral and powerful feeling. And I love leaping into the thick of combat and laying waste to my foes. And the juggernaut feels like your doing this, and doing it well. After that, I'd say that my second favorite is the shadow/Assassin (based purely on how many i have, 2..). again, a melee class, but this one darts around dropping force bombs on people and digging in with their staff instead of the leaping thing. and shadow over assassin....just not fond of the whole lighting zap...it looks like my assassin is constipated when he casts it. the rock throw looks much smoother and eloquent. If the assassin didn't crouch over like he does, it would look cool. I like all the other classes, but based on what I end up playing the most, it's those two.

Solo: Merc/Commando. I prefer the merc dual wield style, but either way, they get their healing comp early on..and can heal themselves as well. this makes a big difference in play in solo work. and Mako is one of the best healers to play with. cute, witty, and enjoyable to bring along. only other healer I like as much is Gus from the smuggler class...he cracks me up. They don't do as well in PvP. they are doing better then they used to do, but they are still limited allot as they are essentially a ranged turret. PvP: Sniper. Dominates PvP right now. they're mix of ranged attacks, escapes, and defensive CD's makes them pretty powerful. Solo play they're biggest limitation is healing...or lack thereof. they have none. Snipers get their healer on Taris (mid 30's), and the repub counterpart, the gunslinger, doesn't get their till HOTH. so both AC's spend close to 3/4 of their life having to heal after most groups. some people are OK with this, but it throws a wrench into my playstyle. And alternative is the Operative/Scoundrel. they are the "other" AC for the Agent/smuggler. they are "mostly" melee, but have some ranged attacks. they do quite well in both PvP and PvE....but you would be spending about 3/4 of your time in almost melee range. But thought I'd throw that in there...they do have some ranged attacks, and the combo of stealth, the ability to stun mobs, and self healing make them a versatile and fun class to play. Honestly, if you want a pure ranged class, it depends on which you will do the most, PvP or PvE. if you will do mostly PvP with PvE Being just your story, and perhaps a few side quests, then Id go sniper/gunslinger. if you will do mostly PvE, with some PvP games on the side, Id go Merc/Commando.

this matter squat in the grand scheme of things. are you talking about bleeding edge content? or are you going to kick a DPS jugg from an HM run because he's not a maurader? even with the DPS buff they get, mara's are still on par with jugg's. Juggs have the ability to apply a constant armor debuff, multiple bleeds, and their mobility and capacity to control mobs helps out a ton in every environment in the game. the only place i think you'd even want to worry about this is the new NM modes coming up...but ill bet there will be guilds that end up conquering those runs with a jugg in the group as DPS. it's a moot point. bring the player, not the class. I'd take a well played Veng jugg over a crud mara any day of the week, Buff or no. to the OP: if your playing a well known and well developed DPS spec, your fine. Juggs are top DPS. they always have had good DPS, it's just easier now to get it out of them. anyone who thinks they can't do good DPS are still living in the stone age. Of course...if your using a hybrid and are mixing and matching stats, and want to just hop into an HM flashpoint, you may get some backlash. right now edge content requires some focus and work from the team as a whole, and people expect a focused class build as a starting point. to me that is a reasonable expectation. If you are leveling though, it doesn't matter what you run. I know peeps that have played Warriors with no AC all the way to end game, flashpoints and all. And this was prior to 2.0. so up to level cap you can do what you want. Story mode same thing.

Not sure where we went from game population to post activity. they do not correlate. people come to the forums for two reasons generally: they want to complain, and they play PvP (which means they complain allot....or boast allot...or are just looking for advice. they are active, one way or the other). and there are a small group of people who post ALLOT, so you have most likely 5% or less of the games population contributing to 75% of the actual posts. so...not really a good indicator of actual class participation in the game. Just wanted to point that out. were talking about popular classes in game...not about classes talked about the most.

I like this idea too. it gives you more flexibility in using those CD's that shadows apparently need to deal with the Alpha situations.

Honestly, they could just drop the cost of shadow strike. its damage is not directly correlational to it's cost, even in normal mode. the positional limitation itself should justify a HIGHER damage then a normal damage/force ratio would provide. if anything, it should be a defacto choice for any shadow spec who is behind the target. I don't see any reason to not provide a specific buff to each spec if/when you use it. Infiltration could get the big damage spike/severely reduced cost, balance could get either a DoT increase, or a DoT consumption on use (this could give us some burst back were missing while not over boosting our damage), and Kinetic could get a mild damage debuff or something (like 2% reduced damage for X seconds). While I don't think that SS should be a required balance ability, I can see why it is an iconic shadow ability, and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be an adaptive aspect of all 3 specs, as Puff said in his post. I think the issue were going to run up against is the "# of skills used" that they quote. I don't necessarily agree with it, but someone in Bio thinks it's a big issue...that all classes have the same amount of button presses to use in their regular rotation. cause....you know...actual diversity would be bad. everyone gotsa be da same. so I like allot of the ideas, but not sure who they would fly against Bio's new authoritative stance on class complexity.