That also works,that was my build incorporating ravage but i can edit to fix that to as another method since i notice most people do this method also rupture annihilate The order matters more in PvP but in PvE I believe this is not as much so. But thanks for the input and useful information everyone. I will continu to edit this to make the ultimate guide for evryone or for myself

The only thing I could see that can be wasted points in carnage atm is 1-narrowed hatred (can adjust due to amount of accuracy needed) 2-cloak of carnage (can live with or without depending on rage output) * once you achieve certain accuracy goal, narrowed hatred can be reduce or you can simply hold it and buff yourself with other stats in armor. necessary points: imo since it increases survivability and damage output 1-dual wield mastery 2-defensive form (reduce dots and elemental damage) 3-defensive curl (aoe frenzy in wz like voidstar and rage builds) (unavoidable aoe like Zorn and Toth EC)

): I tried, but this helps me learn and trade thoughts on stats and trees

True, but there situations where they can simply cloak, throw grenade (no resolve for certain ones) or push you back for miles away. Plus lets not forgot the hour long cc from operatives/scroundrels that can burn you down in three to fives shots if geared really well. Ravage is the indicator to react where as annihilate/rupture is slightly more instant (giving less time to react). Of course I'm not saying don't do ravage, I use ravage when I know they cannot escape without using an "oh ****" ability or are low on health. And I have destroyed my fair share of inexperienced players who do not know how to react well to ravage. To address the accuracy portion, Narrowed Hatred can be taken off later for Blurred Speed when you achieve too much accuracy. I have achieved in obtaining black hole/campaign gear and also warhero gear to the point where I may have too much accuracy (above my 103%) since bioware puts accuracy in a chunk of marauder gear. Reducing the cd on force charge is good, but if a player knows how to conserve his force charge for certain timings I believe the 3 sec reduction isn't always necessary especially since we have multiple other utilities such as force cloak, predation, and movement imparing abilities. 2 points in Defensive Roll (better survivability esp in void star) would probably be a high priority for those who do mad aoe dps (bh, rage specs smashes, etc) edit: I realize that if a person was aiming for a PvE only spec, two points in ravager would be best simply due to the fact that most enemies will not interrupt/counter ravage as easily.

Yeah I would agree that the two points in Ravager may be helpful in PvP for newer players, but I feel that marauders should not depend on this skill simply because more experienced/season players can simply disrupt it from finishing (cc, cloak, etc). I rather marauder not get in the habit of ravage since it has a long channel as a first priority move or finisher but if it fits their playstyle it up to them. Accuracy: Chance that melee attacks will successfully hit the target. Accuracy over 100% reduces the target's defense. I'm lost on how 100-103% accuracy would prove ineffective in PvP especially for melee class. From what I understand accuracy will enable us to land a hit the target with a higher percentage and also reduce a target's defensive ability/armor. So wouldn't accuracy help in destroying tank's armor and also help us land more shot on other classes such as sorc, warriors and etc...? I believe accuracy is essential in marauders/melee classes but of course going over say the 105% may be too much to the point where it may be useless.

I never said it was bad to have 100%, I simply believe that 103% is better from the past. No I do not have proof anymore, but if you have data to prove 100% is better than anything above please tell. Its quite obvious my build tree will conflict with other experienced marauders but we do our builds to how we see fit. You may believed I'm bad, but I spent effort to make this to help new marauders and non-experienced marauder who don't know what they are doing. Marauder who know what they are doing have to build their own tree to see how they deem fit for them and how they play since there are countless way to make a rotation and counters towards classes. Calling me a fool without backup is not constructive at all. There are multiple ways to build one's tree and stats, I am simply building mine. Whether people take my advice/suggestion is up to them. If you want to help then post your guide or post some data to disprove me.

I reposted from a reply and some addons in order to make my own post on forums in case no one reads my post. don't hate My rotation as a level 50 marauder (full rakata/half warhero) *annihilation spec and builds below: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrR0RrfsZuuzZz.1 (My old tree) *lacked accuracy http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrRzRrfsZhMMZM.1 (recently made tree) In honest truth, pvp builds for marauders are various due to multiple scenarios, such as when not to force charge head first towards an enemy or to not pop certain ability. Healers/Channeled-Ability dependent users are a group of people you may not want to charge head first in sometimes. Charge Charge is a skill that can also disrupt a user's/mob's/boss' ability. So it is essentially to make sure you can throw down that ability only to gain an advantage. I believe that charge should be used during an opponent’s channeled ability. This allows marauders to disrupt the user’s next ability with our disruption which shuts down two abilities quickly and disabling them from doing serious damage (or healing) to your marauder. (This gives reason to why you must spec to reduce your minimum force charge range) It is up to your discretion whether or not charging immediately is necessary or favorable for your marauder. When your opponent is running away from you, you might as well force charge to cut that gap away along with the fact that marauders destroy most people in melee range. In huttball, charge is most favorable for us marauders who need to jump towards the goal line and also to disrupt others who may get the ball first but it is important to remember that interrupt are crucial to support our tanks and bring pressure to their healers, so use your charge wisely. Unless the user does not depend on a channeled ability to function, charging first is favorable move to make first to build rage. (classes such as warriors and assassins) *note that this is a general rotation and that it may vary depending on who you may versus in terms of player classes and boss abilities PvP: imo rage spec is best due to aoe and numerous other perks but survivability will be less likely annihilation build is dependent on dots and annihilate so the order of rupture and annihilate can vary. Many people prefer to rupture first then annihilate but I made to this build to incorporate ravage and my style of play. frenzy->predation (run to objective faster) *popped at the start of wz charge <-build rage for ds (please note the charge discussion above) cloak of pain (can vary in rotation) deadly saber/relic (deadly saber is important for more dps/bleed) battering assault <-build rage for annihilation annihilation crippling slash (slows them down for rupture/ravage) *not always necessary if they do not run away rupture (berserk heals only come from this ability) *can go before annihilate ravage (a good player will be able to disrupt it or avoid it) vicious throw (if opponent is low on health below 30%) deadly throw (healers dread this ability) *repeat back to charge *throw down vicious slash if other abilities are in cd *throw down force scream/vicious throw if you are not close enough to target and charge is on cd Frenzy/Marauder Party Buffs should really go to only predation and berserk in my opinion. Bloodthirst is nice for extra damage, but I believe the extra heals from berserk and speed boost is more essential in pvp survivability and objectives. (opinions may vary) *most important as I stress this from the bottom of my heart since it kills me so much from players… please buff yourself and your fellow teammates when you re-spawn PvE: imo anni is best due to higher heals/fury generation/survivability/dps Charge Cloak of pain (this can vary in rotation location) deadly saber/relic (note that popping relic and deadly saber at the same time could enable you to pull a bosses away from the tank which may not be favorable) battering assault annihilation rupture (berserk heals come from this ability) ravage battering assault (deadly saber if cd is down) or basic attacks for more rage vicious slash (if annihilation is not up yet) along with basic attacks annihilation rupture if boss/mob is a healer -> deadly throw if below 30% health -> vicious throw (use as much as possible when cd is up) *repeat back up top of deadly saber or charge *force scream if you are pushed back from target or are forced to be away from a certain distance Frenzy/Marauder Party Buffs should go to berserk and bloodthirst. Extra dps from bloodthirst is needed when doing operations to beat the rage timer. Berserk helps ease the healers of their jobs slightly. Predation should only be used if you need to be running to a location such as SOA in Eternity Vault or when avoiding an aoe attack or certain death. (opinions may vary) Defensive/Reduction Abilities: Obfuscate -> throw down when they are doing hard hitting abilities or when engaging a player 1v1 Cloak of Pain -> advised to use after charge ability, placement can vary Saber Ward -> when expecting a hard hit Undying Rage -> my “oh ****” button or getting targeted by multiple players (used around 20% health or below) Force Camoflage -> another "oh ****" button to avoid agro or to disable someone from casting a debuff or attack on you (helpful when avoiding a warrior's ravage or a high hitting ability) Please remember that your rage will not always be high enough to do all abilities consecutively, hence it is wise to spec to gain more rage and also to do basic attacks to obtain more rage. Gear Stats: (highest priority starts left to right) Strength-> Power-> Accuracy (98%-100%)-> Crit->Surge This can be debatable but this is how I currently see the priority as. edit: I am currently studying more about accuracy but from what I have read 98%->100% accuracy is ideal currently which is a correction made thanks to the comments below and from other website forums. source: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Watchmen-Discussion sry i don't remember my rotation as a low level marauder so I can only give out my 50's rotation >.< if I missed something…well I tried… -Selendis, Server: Nadd’s Sarcophagus edit: my tree is currently make to fit both pve and pvp for my style of play 1- two points in ravager would be recommended for PvE specs annihilation 2- points can be taken away from Narrowed Hatred once high enough accuracy is obtained for other stats such as: a. Blurred Speed b. Defensive Roll/Defensive Form *this helps a lot simply due to unavoidable PvE/PvP aoe/dots c. Ravager

My rotation as a level 50 marauder (full rakata/half warhero) *annihilation spec and builds below: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrR0RrfsZuuzZz.1 (My current tree) In honest truth, pvp builds for marauders are various due to multiple scenarios, such as when not to force charge head first towards an enemy or to not pop certain ability. Healers/Channeled-Ability dependent users are a group of people you may not want to charge head first in. Charge is a skill that can also disrupt a user's/mob's/boss' ability. So it is essentially to make sure you can throw away that ability to gain an advantage. I believe that charge should be used during an opponent’s channeled ability. This allows marauders to disrupt the user’s next ability with our disruption which shuts down two abilities quickly and disabling them from doing serious damage (or healing) to your marauder. In huttball, charge is most favorable for us marauders who need to jump towards the goal line and also to disrupt others who may get the ball first but it is important to remember that interrupt are crucial to support our tanks and bring pressure to their healers, so use your charge wisely. Unless the user does not depend on a channeled ability to function, then charging first is favorable move to make first to build rage. (classes such as warriors and assassins) *note that this is a general rotation and that it may vary depending on who you may versus in terms of player classes and boss abilities PvP: imo rage spec is best due to aoe and numerous other perks but survivability will be less likely frenzy->predation (run to objective faster) charge <-build rage for ds (please note the charge discussion above) cloak of pain (can vary in location) deadly saber/relic (deadly saber is important for more dps/bleed) battering assault <-build rage for annihilation annihilation crippling slash (slows them down for rupture/ravage) rupture (during any phase if you rinse and repeat pop berserk for heals if available) ravage (a good player will be able to disrupt it or avoid it which is why I did not put 2 points in ravage buff) vicious throw (if opponent is low on health below 30%) deadly throw (healers dread this ability) *repeat back to charge *throw down vicious slash if other abilities are in cd *throw down force scream/vicious throw if you are not close enough to target and charge is on cd Frenzy/Marauder Party Buffs should really go to only predation and berserk in my opinion. Bloodthirst is nice for extra damage, but I believe the extra heals from berserk and speed boost is more essential in pvp survivability and objectives. (opinions may vary) *most important as I stress this from the bottom of my heart since it kills me so much from players… please buff yourself and your fellow teammates when you re-spawn PvE: imo anni is best due to higher heals/fury generation/survivability Charge Cloak of pain (this can vary in location) deadly saber/relic (note that popping relic and deadly saber at the same time could enable you to pull a bosses away from the tank which may not be favorable) battering assault annihilation rupture ravage battering assault (deadly saber if cd is down) or basic attacks for more rage vicious slash (if annihilation is not up yet) along with basic attacks annihilation rupture if boss/mob is a healer -> deadly throw if below 30% health -> vicious throw (use as much as possible when cd is up) *repeat back up top of deadly saber or charge *force scream if you are pushed back from target or are forced to be away from a certain distance Frenzy/Marauder Party Buffs should go to berserk and bloodthirst. Extra dps from bloodthirst is needed when doing operations to beat the rage timer. Berserk helps ease the healers of their jobs slightly. Predation should only be used if you need to be running to a location such as SOA in Eternity Vault or when avoiding an aoe attack or certain death. (opinions may vary) Defensive/Reduction Abilities: Obfuscate -> throw down when they are doing hard hitting abilities or when engaging a player 1v1 Cloak of Pain -> advised to use after charge ability, placement can vary Saber Ward -> when expecting a hard hit Undying Rage -> my “oh ****” button or getting targeted by multiple players (used around 20% health or below) Please remember that your rage will not always be high enough to do all abilities consecutively, hence it is wise to spec to gain more rage and also to do basic attacks to obtain more rage. sry i don't remember my rotation as a low level marauder so I can only give out my 50's rotation >.< if I missed something…well I tried… Gear Stats: (highest priority starts left to right) Strength-> Power->Accuracy (103% roughly)-> Crit->Surge This can be debatable but this is how I currently see the priority as. Crit and surge has diminishing returns as well as Accuracy but I believe accuracy will marauders a consistent high amount of damage output rather than basing our luck on chance of crits. Also crits and surge also have diminishing returns so I would worry about this last in my opinion until you are fully geared. -Selendis, Server: Nadd’s Sarcophagus