At least in WoW there is a way to separate people by skill level. And standing around cities? It's the same as standing around the fleet. People only leave to do their dailies, then stand around the fleet while the wait for warzone queues or spam general for a group for a flashpoint.

Er, all that Swtor does while leveling that is different from other MMOs is read the story to you rather than have you read it. And amazing pvp? I...don't know what to say to that. Swtor pvp is horrible.

I really enjoyed both this and this

Once you remove voice acting and the class stories from the game, it is mediocre and does nothing above average. And considering that many people start skipping dialogue eventually and many people will not want to deal with level through the many poorly designed zones/planets and doing non-class quests they have done before to experience all of the class stories, you are left without much.

You say it like those are bad things. Pandaren are boss and have been around much longer than Kunf Fu Panda, and Pet Battles will be a welcome alternate for many people, even if not you, to do in WoW rather than the usual grind dungeons and rep for gear. Couple that with things like challenge modes for dungeons and you have even more alternatives to do for endgame. People like to bring up Pet Battles like it is somehow the focus of the expansion. Well, I suppose when the game you have waited for years finally comes out and turns out if is no where near as good as you wanted it to be, it hurts even more to know that pandas and pokemon will be better.

Yep, people just need to look at my screenshot comparisons that you linked in the second post on the first page, or on page 17.

Maybe when it was in alpha.

I think much of WoW is beautiful, but the way people talk about it, you would think it looked like Runescape or something. They hate on it not because the graphics are bad, but because it is WoW. No matter how it looked, certain people would still bag on it because, simply, it's WoW.

Well, I will agree that Swtor graphics look more modern. But, as I stated, I prefer the style and vibrance of WoW's graphics. I just get tired of people talking about WoW as if it were still the same graphics it had at launch.

You can't handle the truth!

Dang, killed the thread.

TIME TO SETTLE THIS. These screenshots were taken moments ago, both on the same machine, both games on Ultra. Swtor scenery shot: http://i.imgur.com/VaQwg.jpg Swtor up close character shot: http://i.imgur.com/hPd2m.jpg WoW scenery shot: http://i.imgur.com/p5JnV.jpg WoW up close character shot: http://i.imgur.com/JRUOb.jpg What do I think? I think both games look good. Both are cartoony, but ultimately I prefer the style and bright colors of WoW, I find the style more charming and interesting. Everyone will have their own opinion, but I am sure Swtor will improve once a lot of the texture problems get taken care of. Edit: I tabbed back in WoW after making this post, and something magical was happening. One of the many things that I beleive gives WoW more immersion than Swtor. WEATHER!!! Turned rainy and foggy all of a sudden. It's little things like this Swtor is missing. http://i.imgur.com/xDinT.jpg

You have to be very careful on these forums. Any critique at all about the game is met with "OMG it just launched" or " You expect it to have as much polish as WoW", or my personal favorite, "Then stop playing the game and go back to WoW/unsub/diaf". Just because someone points out areas of the game where there needs to be improvements does not mean they don't enjoy the game. It's like if you are not completely for the game, you are against it. And we all know that only Sith deal in absolutes.

It seems you didn't read my post. I, for the most part, am not talking about polish. I am talking about core parts of the game. Also, there is nothing wrong with comparing WoW to Swtor. Bioware said they wanted to compete with WoW. It is the same genre. And Swtor is being released in a time when games in general, not just MMOs are expected to be more polished than games released 8 years ago. WoW is right there to learn from. There is a certain amount of polish expected in an MMO, even at launch. But again, most of my post did not have to do with polish but with core game mechanics or features. Also, if you had read my post, you would have noticed that with things like no high res textures yet, which could be considered to be a matter of polish, I stated that I am sure it would be added soon and so it was not a big deal.

I never said that crafting in WoW was fun or not or that it was better. I just stated that in WoW you have to go collect materials (excluding auction house use) and in Swtor you don't have to. Just a simple observation. Swtor's crafting system being fun to use is debatable. Clicking a button to send your companion out to get materials or make something I don't count as being fun. Though I will say that crafting in Swtor seems to be more useful while leveling than WoW's crafting. Again, the whole point of your post is assuming that I said WoW crafting is better, which I never said. I said neither are great.