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Varteras

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    Am I just kidding myself or what?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Varteras

    MMO Veterans, this one is for you.

     

    This is my first big AAA MMO, and I have 90 days left on my sub. SWTOR is a great game, but I feel its lacking somewhat, and I am wondering is it just me (wrong player in the wrong game) or is there any hope for something 'more'.

     

    If this is truly your first 'big' MMO then I would definitely suggest checking out some other big name MMOs. Some of them do things differently than what is considered normal but here is what you'll likely find. Either the MMOs that do something different are also lacking in many other areas or the MMOs that do it the same are... well... mostly the same. MMOs evolve very slowly compared to most other gametypes and right now there seems to be a growing feeling of boredom with the MMO formula that unfortunately is not likely to change any time soon. Mostly because what many people want to see MMOs grow into is just not possible with today's technologies and methods. It's not that they CANNOT be what people want it's just that in order to achieve this 'today' would likely take decades of development.

     

    At the moment it seems I log on, do the same daily missions over and over, and then run 'False Emperor' again.. kill the same enemies, listen to the same dialogue, and think 'Ok, story is good, but this is like reading the same chapter over and over and over' I wouldn’t do that in a book, why am I doing it in a game?

     

    If all you're running is False Emperor I would advise trying some of the other high level flashpoints. Directive 7, Battle of Ilum, Kaon Under Siege, and Lost Island are all there. If you're doing hardmodes then I would certainly also shoot for Black Talon, Boarding Party, and Foundry if you're Empire or Esseles, Taral V, and Maelstrom Prison if you're Republic. I really don't know why you'd limit yourself to a single flashpoint to run at endgame when there are 8 of them to run hardmode or 5 of them to run normal mode. As far as the repetition goes... hate to say it but nearly all MMOs have repetitive PvE content at max level. Until the developer releases new PvE endgame content you'll be dealing with the same dailies, dungeons, and storylines for just about any MMO you go to.

     

    I am wondering then, if that is going to be it for SWTOR? Sure, they will release new stuff, but will it essentially be just another '1x Tank, 1xHealer, 2xDPS, kill trash, fight boss, repeat...'

     

    As far as the core content goes in flashpoints (dungeons), yes. This will likely be the case. I would not expect much different. This game uses the standard MMO formula for its core content. Again, many MMOs are like this. Some do it differently but even for what they do differently... you can expect that to be rehashed within that game again and again. It won't likely change. The only thing I've seen recently where an MMO created content that used its normal gameplay mechanics but moved away from the typical group composition found in that game is WoW with the PvE Scenarios they're adding in their next expansion. You don't need healers or tanks to complete them. You CAN use them but it's not necessary to succeed.

     

    I have played a lot of games over the years, and off the top of my head 2 features from 2 games come to mind that would, for me at least, improve SWTOR.

     

    The first is from Battlestar Gallactica Online. The game is a continual war between Colonial and Cylons. The interesting part of this game, its a space shooter, you pilot your craft and fight pvp and enemy npc pve, but the sectors you fight over constantly change hands. One side will amass a huge fleet, attack the other side, knock-out its NPC capital supply ship, then a period of time later an allied NPC capital supply ship will jump in, and the sector will change hands. The benefit of controlling a sector is the ability to mine all its resources.

     

    I know in SWTOR we kinda had this with Ilum, but it didn’t work out. There is nothing though that I can fight over with PvP, take for the Republic, and fight off the Empire. There is no galactic war outside of NPC storyline (which you play over and over and over, the same!)

     

    Fortunately it seems this will be addressed in the future. First, it is all but confirmed that 3D space combat will be added to this game so we'll see what happenes with that. Second, Ilum is being redesigned so we'll see what Bioware comes up with. Finally, on James Ohlen's twitter profile someone asked him if we would ever see this 'war' actually unfold. He said they definitely have plans to make you feel like there is really a war going on between these two factions. So nothing concrete right now but Bioware is definitely aware of how people like you feel and they claim to be working towards that.

     

    The second example comes from a planned announcement from Age of Empires Online. They intend to have a 3-faction base, that a player can choose one to join. After that every time a player scores a variety of points/exp/cash/resources etc they score points for their respective faction.

    A faction gives a skill bonus to its members as well as allowing them to get 'faction only gear'.

    At the end of a set period, the faction who is winning gets rewarded, which in turn is split between its members based on how active they have been.

     

    This would be amazing to see in SWTOR. Running Daily Missions, and sending credits/materials to the Republic War Effort, would give me a reason to actually log in and do something.

     

    This would definitely be amazing and something I would definitely post in the suggestion box.

     

    So, in summary, I ask the MMO veterans, do MMO games have this type of variety? Do they evolve this type of variety based on player feedback? Or, am I simply (like I expect) in the wrong game, and all that SWTOR will offer is another 4/8player repeatable storyline that is enjoyable and makes sense the first time around, but after you have killed DrEvil 14 times you kinda want to lay down your lightsaber and call it a day...

     

    And please don’t say 'go back to xx game', as I already still play those games (and several others).

    Thanks folks!

     

    Some developers do evolve their games based both on player feedback and the desires of the devs themselves. There is a ton of negativity on these forums but if I were you I would ignore a large portion of it. After being around here for awhile you really start to become well aware of who is giving constructive criticism and who is just simply crying like a spoiled brat. Bioware has already made quite a few changes and additions to this game based on player feedback. I would also recommend looking for stickies where the developers are asking for input on the general forums. Two of them were just added. One asking for what planet you'd like to see featured in this game and another asking what kind of UI improvements or additions you'd like to see. Head there and definitely post what you'd like to see. They may not make these changes or additions tomorrow or even next month but the more people ask for them the more likely we'll see it happen in the future.

     

    It's a solid game. The PvE content is really good for a new MMO. PvP is lacking definitely but I'm sure it will improve. Considering the hints the devs have been giving us about what they plan to add in the future I'm really excited to see how this game looks over the next two years into the first expansion. If you're really just not feeling it then unsub, try out another game, and in the meantime keep an eye on what TOR is doing. Come back when it adds something that makes you go, "....mother of god....".

    UI Feature Feedback Request

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Oh where do I begin. Here it goes.

     

    - Auto-arrange inventory button.

    - "Snap-to" toggle for customizing the UI.

    - Choice of colors for the UI. Maybe even allow us to set colors for individual UI pieces.

    - Either make the resource colors different by class by default or allow us to choose. Yellow is getting very old.

    - Area markers for group and ops leaders. Excellent for helping to explain a strategy and visual queues for where to be during the fight.

    - Separate UI piece where 'stances' automatically go. Would save on hotbar space.

    - A right-click target portrait option to set them as the Focus. For those people who aren't buttoneers.

    - A threat percentage indicator on target portrait.

    - Ability to see who the most recent mail was sent from by hovering over the mail icon.

    - Show potential completion rewards in the mission codex entry.

    - A pop-out panel that shows basic information on the mission (including rewards) by clicking it on the mission tracker. This way we don't have to open the codex window when all we want to know about is that one mission.

     

    Finally, for the love of GAWD please give us different mission icon colors! If I sit through another cinematic dialogue scene just to find out that it was a Heroic Mission that I have no intention of doing I will kill a kitten! I play this game a lot. That means genocide, Bioware. GENOCIDE! Make this change soon or the blood of an entire furry species will be on your hands. :jawa_evil:

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    If bioware would start listening to player feedback rather than outright ignore it all....then I'd be willing to consider maintaining my sub. Feedback is important to you is it? Well actions speak louder than words. It doesn't take much to realize when you are being ignored. If I see the game continue to go in the direction 1.2 went then I am afraid I won't want to continue playing.

     

    PvP was simply better prior to patch 1.2. All we needed was some tweaks to some things and the addition of rated warzones...NOT the *********** machete slash changes across the board we got.

    It also wouldn't hurt Bioware to hire an economist to fix their crew skill system and economy as a whole.

     

    Multiple options for cooldown animations with cooldown timers, clickable mission items on the mission tracker, UI customization (more than just scaling), more vanity pets, more emotes, increasing operation difficulty, and Ilum being redesigned (in the works) are all examples of things Bioware has done or are in the process of doing that is/was a direct result of player feedback. Just because we're not getting everything we want today does not mean they aren't listening. If you can't see that with the things they've done already then you're just a hopeless case.

    Feedback request from James Ohlen - potential future planets

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Some planets off the top of my head.

     

    Geonosis, Yavin, Bothawui, Dantooine, Dathomir, Telos, Onderon, Manaan, Kashyyyk, and Dxun. I figure why not just go ahead and add in all the planets that were in the two KotOR games. They don't have to be fully explorable. Geonosis, Yavin, and Bothawui simply because they were shown in the timeline segments. Dathomir just because I think a lot could be done with that world.

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Holy Batman /thread.

     

    These threads are getting old indeed. The ultimatum threads where if the OP does not get what he wants then BioWare will suffer the wrath of unsubbing! As if their $15 a month is worth more than hundreds of thousands of other players. There is no one forcing these players to stay here, no gun pointed to their head, no lightsaber to their throats. Yet they linger the forums, bash the game intensively, ridicule others who have a fondness for the game, and just burden themselves by sticking to something they obviously loathe. Me personally when I do not like a product I just stop using it. Whatever happened to that?

     

    The worst part is that these players assume changes could be done at a drop of a hat. I took programming, for two semesters my freshman year, sure it wasn't enough to fully grasp the skill, but from the basics, it's not hard to see that it is a time consuming process. Just making a character walk takes weeks of work. More patches will come I hope, but I know they won't be rolled at my convenience. A matter of patience.

     

    Getting old indeed. For the first month or two I could see it but I would have thought that after those people actually did leave that we would have seen the end of them. Apparently some people just can't let go.

     

    I am by no means a blind fan to this game. I have voiced my displeasure a number of times with it. Mostly how poorly I felt the PvP aspect of the game was handled. Only 3 warzones at launch when your biggest competitor has 8 of them. A broken PvP zone when your biggest competitor has done two of them 'well' at the very least. Planet designs and mission area placements that almost seem to discourage open PvP. Unlike PvE, PvP is one of those areas of a game where you really need to make sure there is solid amount of it at launch or else your diehard PvPers will just go to a game that already has it in abundance. I was also not impressed to see certain UI features that are standard in most MMOs not available at launch. Was target-of-target really that difficult?

     

    However, the game does provide for me a solid PvE experience. Plenty of dungeon content to bite into. Good stories and the fact that I have to play all 8 core classes to get the whole picture makes me want to keep plowing through. Raid content that is improving and about what I expected for starters. Cinematic dialogue that has honestly spoiled me for how I expect to interact with NPCs now. Amazing sound quality, music, and voiceovers. The visuals are not top-notch but they're solid for an MMO. What really keeps me coming back is to see what happens next. The game has hooked me in more ways than one. If they would just fix PvP I would sing this game's praises on every other MMO forum around.

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    how come it takes this company so long to do a patch? they're a billion dollar company and it takes two months to make a new LFG tool.....FAIL....i think they work 4 hours day and spend the rest on WoW

     

    give me a billion dollar company i will have you a patch every damn week

     

    If I take you up on that offer and you fail miserably, which I'm sure you will, what do I get in return?

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Varteras

    Quotes like this really nail it. Server populations are suffering beyond belief, and for a game that's only been out five months - that's almost unbelievable.

     

    There's an overwhelming majority of players (my guild included) who are simply dissatisfied and unhappy with the direction of this game. I mean, the "server population is dropping"" thread, is the largest and most active thread on these forums. It's had to be reset about five times already due to the amount of posts.

     

    James Ohlen is now on record saying they'll provide monthly updates. We're now in May so we'll see what happens. However, given the amount of bare-bones, uninspired content that's been released thus far - there's seemingly way too much work that has to be done to save ToR.

     

    Let me point out all of the things that are wrong with your post.

     

    1) Server populations are suffering beyond belief.

     

    In another thread there was someone else claiming the same thing. The poster claimed that 80% of the servers were light and that too few servers had significant or stable (standard) populations. I informed him that during the week the servers are typically 30% light. He attempted to use off-hours as evidence that they were infact 80% or more. That same day (a Thursday) at peak hours I checked the server status and guess what. About 25% of the servers were light. This has been the trend since late January. Server populations are not suffering beyond belief. It's a vocal minority who happen to be on low population servers making these doomsday remarks and the people who aren't truly suffering the same problems but using it as some kind of ammo against this game. It's unfortunate and I feel bad for those people but their problems are found on 25% of the servers. Just so we're clear, those light servers may represent 25% of the server total but they do not represent 25% of the game's total population.

     

    2) An overwhelming majority of players are dissatisfied and unhappy with the direction of the game.

     

    Exaggerated remarks like this are so common on these forums that I would really like to see a psychological study group come check them out. Apparently you haven't been paying attention to your own thread. If you were, you would see that this thread alone has nowhere near an overwhelming majority of its posters that say they're unhappy with this game and/or leaving. You and your guildmates are and so that is enough for you to determine that most people are as well? My friends and I did not like the Guild Wars 2 beta. Does that mean that most people didn't as well? Until you can provide hard evidence of this claim you look like a fool for making it.

     

    3) The "sever population is dropping" thread is the largest, longest running thread on the forums.

     

    Your point being? Have you looked at that thread? You probably did and just like what you apparently do in this thread you probably only saw what you wanted to see. The people who are complaining about it. Nevermind the many, many people in that thread who argue against it. There were threads longer running than that about people wanting to switch their advanced classes. Does that mean that the idea of switching advanced classes is desired by this "overwhelming majority"? No. It simply means that it went on for a long time and many people contributed. In my experience around here negative threads normally have a handful of people complaining and a very large amount of others basically telling them the contrary. I saw it with advanced class switching. I saw it with space combat. I saw it with the rakghoul event. A thread can be reset 30 times but if it's basically the same people crying and a ton of people telling them to stop crying your idea that it somehow represents a majority is very, very wrong.

     

    As well, OP. Why are you even still here? You apparently don't like this game or don't think that it will be saved. You've already made it very clear that you have a love affair with Guild Wars 2 which I have a feeling you'll complain about a couple months after its release. You've shown an apparent disregard for the people who feel contrary to you. Your only purpose with this thread now seems to be to convince people that this game is going nowhere and that another MMO is where it's at. Personally if I was a mod I would have locked this thread and banned your account for adamantly promoting another game and giving non-constructive criticisms of this one. You're entitled to your opinion but we are painfully aware of what you're opinion is because you've puked it up post after post. Now it just seems like you're trying to convert people and using this thread as some form of self-validation. In this thread there are a couple people who share your views and a whole lot who don't. You said you wanted to see what 1.3 brings but you've really made up your mind already. So I ask you... what is your purpose at this point?

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I think the fact that 1.2 launched with as much content as it did was even more of a testament to the fact that it was intended to be launch given the amount of content and features that were added in the limited timeframe. Creating the dailies, the WZ and the new PvE content in under 4 months is something that I just don't think they could have done. My guess is that most of it was already half finished by the Dec launch and was intended to be in originally.

     

    It's not a testament to that at all. MMO developers will often plan content a year or more in advance. What is the more likely scenario is that the operation, flashpoint, warzone, and dailies we got in 1.2 were planned to be released after launch as additional content and the UI functions, guild banks, and Legacy (all things that were either confirmed or hinted that the devs wanted at launch) were packaged in with the content that they had already planned to release later.

     

    Look at the datamined information on Torhead. That data was revealed about 3 weeks after 1.1 was dropped. It shows data on patches 1.2 to 1.5 that already existed in the game client. Obviously they were working on all that content prior to release. Should we then say that content released in 1.5, which is likely to not be around until later this year, was also content they planned to be in at launch? That data shows that between 1.3 and 1.5 Bioware had at least planned at the time to give us 2 more flashpoints, 3 more operations, and 3 more sets of dailies. Two sets of those dailies are on planets that don't even exist in the game right now.

     

    The only thing about that datamined information that can be seen as something that was in before but removed until a later time was the HK-51 companion. From what I understand that companion was available for a period of time in beta but was then removed a fair amount of time before launch. According to the datamined information, that companion will be added in 1.3 and apparently that companion's story is connected to things going on in that patch. The conclusion I draw from that is either Bioware decided that companion would be better suited for a story element they planned later or he was just simply put in beta as a teaser at the time.

     

    Coming to an automatic conclusion that just because patch 1.2 was big means that everything in it was planned to be in at launch is really just showing that you don't care to take anything else into consideration. It's very much the same as looking at some religious literature and saying that just because one item in it is accurate then the whole thing is accurate. Any reasonable person would see why it's wrong to think that way.

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Varteras

    1.2 and the rest of the "coming soon!" legacy features should have indeed been launch. There is really no other way to describe it.

     

    I agree that Legacy should have been in at launch. From what the devs have said even they wanted it in at launch so there really is no way to argue it. The "Coming Soon!" features I don't think should have been in at launch but I would say that if the Legacy was released on Day 1 those Legacy additions should have been here by now. I also do feel like certain UI functions were oddly missing. Target-of-target, UI scaling (being able to actually customize was a bonus to me), mission items being clickable on the mission tracker, guild banks... I also felt that those are probably things that they should have hammered down on to get out the door. If not launch day it should have been 1.1 not 1.2 almost 4 months later.

     

    What I do argue are the additions to the playspace. The new dailies on Corellia, Explosive Conflict, Lost Island, Novare Coast. Those really aren't things you can say should have been in at launch and they did represent a significant portion of that patch. They all represent a continuation of the story beyond the launch content, however light that may be. So if you're going to say that those should have been in at launch you'll probably say the same thing about the next 3 operations, the next 2 or 3 flashpoints, and however many other warzones they add between 1.2 and the end of the year. Those are the kind of claims that are annoying because no matter how much is added certain people feel like it's never enough. That it all should have been in on Day 1.

     

    I would be willing to bet that many of those same people would defend other MMOs from such criticisms. I should probably hop on over to the Rift forums and tell everyone there that anything Trion added over the last year should have been in at launch.

    If 1.3 Isn't Out by May - Will You Unsub?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    yip everything that should of been there since launch

     

    Seriously, there needs to be a line drawn where we say "this is the stuff that 'should' have been in at launch and anything beyond this is extra". Because at this rate we could have twice the content that was available at launch added before the end of the year and we'll still have people like this guy saying it should have been in at launch. Hell, they'll probably still say that for the first expansion. It really will never end with these people. Things weren't in at launch. Many things some considered standard at launch are here now. It's done and over with. It really is time to get over it and move on now.

     

    As well, I really don't think that just because other things were added into a patch along with things that many felt should have been in at launch means that those other things should be considered 'missed launch material'.

    Hate to say it, but this game needs e-peen

    in Suggestion Box

    Posted · Edited by Varteras

    If you dont have the time or skill to raid a really hard dungeon and get really good gear then why should it not exist for people that can? Why are you not happy with doing the hardest content and get the best gear your time alows? If i like to play baseball and play in a local league im not going to insist that major league baseball be done away with because i cant play in it.

     

    our society is just a joke these days, do the best you can do with what you have and keep trying to do better and be happy about it, dont try to bring anyone who is doing more or better than you down to your level.

     

    I do have the time and the skill. I do work for it. Don't make assumptions about what I'm capable of or willing to do. What I was pointing out to that poster was that when you make posts saying things such as "just like in real life..." you're overlooking the fact that people are paying for this. They are paying for a product to entertain them. So, if they are paying then they can absolutely request a change or attempt to block a change. If I was paying to exist in real life you can bet that I would make some requests.

     

    Society definitely has some short comings. Most of which revolve around people feeling entitled to things or to have their voices heard in attempts to alter things that they're NOT PAYING FOR. People ARE PAYING for this game. So just as you are entitled to make a request that the game be more difficult others can request that it not be. Furthermore, many people if not most play videogames to escape reality so ofcourse they don't want the harsh reality of life tossed back up in their face. Expecting that people try hard in real life and put forth great effort to succeed just to go home and sit on their computers to try hard in virtual life and put forth great effort to look cool is really just expecting people to never be able to have something easy. I don't mind it but don't expect everyone to be gluttons for that kind of punishment. People have a voice in this game. You know... just like they do in real life. So just like in real life you can either deal with that fact or go live somewhere where only voices like yours are allowed.

    Hate to say it, but this game needs e-peen

    in Suggestion Box

    Posted

    So you're saying that someone who has no life, puts 40+ hours a week into the game should get the the same stuff somoene that plays 4 hours a week gets?

     

    In anything in life, the more you put into something, the more you should get out of it. This includes MMOs.

     

    Difference being that I don't pay a monthly fee to exist. You could always try to argue that I do have to pay for things but that's no different than the ingame prices I pay for things I want. I don't literally pay to be alive. That's essentially what you're saying people should do. Make efforts, pay for things you want, and at the same time pay someone just for being alive.

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