Yeah, I'm in the vast minority who claim these classes are underpowered relative to their competition, lol. I made an argument and presented evidence to back it up, you merely stated your opinion, which my evidence puts into question. Tell me, what are the advantages a jedi knight/sith warrior has vs other classes? Take the tank classes for example - their competition has clear advantages in range and aoe. So what does the jedi knight/sith warrior have a clear advantage in? And try to understand the argument - nobody is claiming the class in unplayable, we are saying it is underpowered vs the competition, which is pretty important in an mmo, even moreso in one that offers pvp. This time try to form an argument, and offer some sort of point outside of a beseless opinion like 'i'm good at playing the class so you (apparently along with the countless others who have realized these classes are underpowered) must suck'. But if your playing skills are in the same league as your debate techniques, I'm very doubtful as to your claims of expertise.

I've got a 50 sith jugg and I'm working on a lvl 33 sentinel, and it's just ridiculous how underpowered we are. It really is unbelievable that the devs let the game go live with such glaring imbalances. Even those who claim the class is 'ok' admit it's 'harder to play'. Well the reason it's 'harder to play' is because it's ridiculously underpowered. I was running through an open world mish last nite, and a trooper one level lower than me was running through the same area. I was having my usual struggle going from group to group, having to rest every fight or two because I'd get knocked down to 1/2 health. So I watched the trooper running through the same mobs I was fighting, and he was mowing through them faster than I was, and was losing virtually no health at all, maybe 5%. That's just flat out ridiculous. Then as others have pointed out, you look at your padawan, and she's got better stats than you do. The only advantage you have is in armor, and it seems like armor is bypassed routinely or has very little effect in gameplay. I guess the devs were worried about too many people wanting to play jedi so they gimped the class? Well whatever the reason, it's a horrible failure to make what should be the most popular class in the game a gimpfest. The worst part is, it seems the devs are oblivious or don't care. The miniscule force push/leap 'fix' was a joke. It's a shame because the game has lots of good things going for it, but a star wars game with jedi who are severely outclassed by everything else is a joke, imo.

If the players are of equal ability and gear, Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors are extremely underpowered. Even the OP admits it accidentally when he basically says that they take 'more skill' to play, and when he remarks that you can just pick up some of the other classes and be great with little to no effort. And the gap is ridiculously huge, I'm literally amazed that the devs in this game seem to either be unaware of this, or simply don't care. Even in pve, the gap is enormous. I'm currently leveling a Jedi Knight Sentinel at lvl 32, and I was fighting through a mission next to a trooper. I'm going from battle to battle, losing about 30-40% of my health. Then I watch the trooper waltz by, and he's blowing through the groups at about the same pace as I am, but losing about 5% of his health. And before anybody jumps in with 'yer only lvl 32, l2p newb!', I also have a sith juggernaut at lvl 50. And lets be honest, learning to play this game isn't exactly rocket science. There's a reason so many people are complaining about these classes, it's because they're ridiculously underpowered.

I was playing a lightside marauder, and even I would have chosen to kill him. It was lame for bioware to bend to the will of morons who apparently couldn't figure out that choosing to kill him meant they would no longer be able to have him as a companion/pet.

At first I was very disappointed to find out space combat was on rails, but after playing it, I do enjoy the space combat and it's very well done for what it is. Having said that, if they can implement more of an x-wing vs tie fighter type game, with 360 free movement, and allow space combat pvp, it would be a HUGE addition to this game and would almost guarantee my sub for an extended period of time.

I'd love to hear one of the devs answer this question. If a dev reads this, and really can't answer - then you should realize this class, and the mirror class imp side, needs serious buffs to compete, and they need them now. I'm still completely astounded that they decided to gimp jedi and sith in a game primarily about jedi and sith. Maybe they'll come out with a shopkeeper class that will be OP'd.

Please point out where in my post I claimed someone was 'lying'? I didn't. I said that those who have been defending the class miss the point. Just because you can do the content with this class does not mean the class is not underpowered relative to other classes. And again, even those who claim the class is 'fine' because they do well with the class often add telling implications like 'it just takes more skill", which is just further evidence that the class is underpowered - because if the class takes more skill/more work to play, then obviously it's underpowered relative to the competition. And even then the class still falls short of the competition, because playing abilitiy being equal, there is a big gap in aoe ability - both damage and threat control, dps, ranged ability, and damage mitigation in large part due to the afformentioned shortcomings of this class. The bottom line is, if you want to tank, this class is demonstratively the worst choice you can make in this game - unless you're 'leet' and want to show everyone how awesome you are because you can make the weakest tank class work.

Notice how everyone who claim 'juggs are fine' say things like 'they're good enough' and 'they get the job done'? It's because even they know they are sub par vs. competing classes. The issue is not about whether or not they can get through the pve content, the issue is that they are underpowered vs. competing classes, which is even supported by those who claim the class is 'fine' when they continually admit it's 'more difficult to play'. The basic problem is, vs competing classes jugs are on par with single target ability, but sub par in aoe ability, overall dps, and threat generation/maintenance. If the devs want jugs to severely underperform in terms of aoe and overall dps, they should be equally superior in single target and survivability, but that is clearly not the case as of now. To bring juggs up to par with competing classes, they need to have sizable increases in dps and aoe ability or survivability, because right now, they have no advantage against competing classes, and yet have many disadvantages.

The problem imo is that, as with most games I've played, these devs have underestimated the advantage ranged classes have over melee. It's a massive advantage, especially in pvp. Because of this massive advantage, melee classes should have massive advantages in survivability and melee damage, but in this game, they clearly do not. Of course we have the 'leet' players coming in and claiming the complainers just need to 'learn 2 play', but even they make telling statements that imply you simply need more skill than your opponent to be successful, which is ironic because it supports the very heavily voiced complaints that this class is underpowered vs. the other classes in this game. I've also heard claims that this class just needs to 'play their role', which from what I've seen, is ridiculously limited, especially in pvp. Well I've been following the development of this game, and I was under the impression that you would have diverse choices to build whatever class you chose into several different playstyles. Well for warriors, our dps choices are clearly sub par vs the competition, and our tanking options are as well (save the 'but we're super good tanking one opponent!' argument, because in an mmo where you consistently face more than one opponent, that type of tanking is inferior to begin with, assuming that argument alone holds any water anyway). There's a reason there is so much noise in these forums about this class being underpowered - it's because this class is underpowered, and clearly so. So if bioware wants to hear the complaints stop, they need to fix the class, and with better measures than the half-hearted force push change. The explanation that they don't want to damage the balance by being hasty is pretty ridiculous when you consider the fact that the whole reason for the complaints is the massive lack of balance. But the worst thing you could do is stop complaining, because the squeaky wheel gets greased first, and this wheel is about to fall off. It still amazes me that the developers of this game thought that making what was clearly going to be the most popular class in the game gimped was a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love the game overall, but struggling through leveling and not wanting to pvp because my class feels gimped has really put a huge damper on my enjoyment of this game. Sure I could roll a bounty hunter or trooper, but I bought this game to play a jedi or sith, as I'm sure many if not most of their customers did. I hope this issue is addressed soon.

I really can't believe the BW devs are so out of touch that they thought the proposed fixes were addressing the obvious power disparities with this class. I'm playing this game because I wanted to play a force user, a jedi or sith warrior, and they end up making the best part of star wars the gimp classes. If they don't correctly address this problem soon, I'll be done with this game once I hit fifty. That's not meant to be a threat, I'm sure the game will survive without me, but I doubt I'm the only one who wanted to play a star wars game as a jedi or sith, who will be turned off by said classes relative weakness. BW made a great game here, but to gimp the most popular class and then to start trying to fix a gushing chest wound with bandaids is a really bad idea. I'm guessing they were worried about people not wanting to play the other classes so they intentionally made these classes weaker. In terms of pvp, I see the same problem in most games - melee is at a severe disadvantage vs. ranged, and in this game it's worse than most. If it's harder to engage in melee, then melee based toons should do far more damage than ranged once they do get into melee. Also, melee based toons should have clear survivability advantages, yet they don't, and the few they have in this game are wiped out or useless in pvp. The worst part of this deal is that the people running this game don't seem to see the massive disparity that exists.

Great post. After seeing the 'buffs' implemented, are the devs playing a different game? I ask that because the buffs are ridiculously miniscule and do very little to fix the problems with the jedi/sith warrior classes. Let me ask this directly to the devs - is it intended that as a sith warrior, I need to be leveled 3 or 4 levels above the level suggestion for pve content to be able to do it without dieing every other fight? Is it intended that I need to heal after every fight, even when 2, 3 or 4 levels above suggested level because pretty much everything I fight knocks off half my health or more? I understand the concern about players not wanting to play any of the other classes, but the answer is not to make what is probably the most popular type of character in the SW universe so pitifully underpowered. And as others have mentioned, I wouldn't take my sweet time making ridiculously minor attempts to fix the class, because if you damage your games reputation early and lose a bunch of players over it, mmos can have a hard time recovering from that kind of damage - kind of like a sith warrior when fighting even level enemies... You've made a great game, but gimping what is unquestionably the best thing to come out of the sw universe, is a huge blemish that can ruin the whole thing.

Well I'd say that all the complaints about this class being ridiculously underpowered isn't just a coincidence, it's due to the fact this class is severely underpowered relative to the other classes in this game. You know that's true when those who claim it isn't underpowered readily and universally admit it's 'harder' to play and requires more 'skill', which is ironically admitting that the class is weaker than it's peers. If only the 'leet' players can get the class to work, then the class is broken. I hope the devs quickly look at this and fix the problem, and make this class more competitive with the other classes.

This post drips with irony. You're fighting at plus four and you were still beaten down to about 25% health. That doesn't look sexy at all, it looks weak and underpowered.

I'm trudging throught he pve content on a juggernaut, only because I'm stubborn, have way too much time invested in the class, and want to advance the story. But the class simply feels feeble. Is it by design that we're supposed to have to use our rest/heal power after pretty much every fight? This class needs more damage or better survivability. I really hope the devs look at this class soon, and consider making some improvements.

I'm seeing the same massive disparity - playing a jugg and feeling extremely underpowered vs. competing classes.