Clarification on SWTOR's Development

[Faefrost]

The KOTOR style cutscenes were a cute homage when you released them. But if you are going to be using this approach for even more mainline story missions and stories, really some tweaking needs to be done.

The biggest one is Time. These scenes are too slow for what they are. They were originally tuned to mimic a game from the last century. The interactions just feel painfully slow. With slow dialog, too much one sided dialog in places, Whole speeches delivered over 2-3+ sub scenes that just drag on and on. Actually navigating in this dialog system is a nightmare. There is no flow or rythem to it. And anything that requires back and forth interaction, like turning in Alliance Crates is painful for how poor the UI functions.

I'm not complaining about unvoiced PC character content. Dropping us back to unvoiced for side stuff or even non critical mainline story is fine. But please can we get a better functioning UI? Not one borrowed from the 1990's? 

[eabevella]

The point is using voiced player characters, not what "style" they use when player characters are talking.

You think story quality will be better just by removing voice actors when all the devs are trying to do is to cut corners and make changes for changes sake? LMAO the story will only be worse because they don't even need to think about how those 10 lines sound when they are spoken out by actual people.

No Talking PC means "Yes, I love it" "Yes, that's ok" "Yes, I guess" "I don't think so" "No" "Nope" are SIX diverse dialogue options, look at how long the dialogue list is and how hard-working the devs are. As already seen in the current main story.

[supertimtaf]

2 hours ago, eabevella said:

The point is using voiced player characters, not what "style" they use when player characters are talking.

You think story quality will be better just by removing voice actors when all the devs are trying to do is to cut corners and make changes for changes sake? LMAO the story will only be worse because they don't even need to think about how those 10 lines sound when they are spoken out by actual people.

No Talking PC means "Yes, I love it" "Yes, that's ok" "Yes, I guess" "I don't think so" "No" "Nope" are SIX diverse dialogue options, look at how long the dialogue list is and how hard-working the devs are. As already seen in the current main story.

I disagree that having a mute main character means less impactful cutscenes. If the other part of the voice cast is good enough and the story is okay, you *will* have impact provided it's presented correctly, I can point to a few examples where that's the case on games other than swtor.

 

You can't say that visual presentation doesn't impact immersion but hearing your character does. Both can, for sure. But atm I've seen more games succeed with cleaner visuals and no player VA than the opposite.

[felleto]

16 minutes ago, supertimtaf said:

I disagree that having a mute main character means less impactful cutscenes. If the other part of the voice cast is good enough and the story is okay, you *will* have impact provided it's presented correctly, I can point to a few examples where that's the case on games other than swtor.

 

You can't say that visual presentation doesn't impact immersion but hearing your character does. Both can, for sure. But atm I've seen more games succeed with cleaner visuals and no player VA than the opposite.

I was thinking about this the other night. 

Hear me out. Non-voiced updates for minor story bits here and there sure no problem. Maybe improve the interface and use more character emotes etc. 

HOWEVER, on top of that use this minor unvoiced story bits to foreshadow (and hype up) a MAJOR (CAPITAL LETTERS!) STORY UPDATE - an expansion if you may (EA execs if you are listening you can charge us for that *wink* *wink*). We need hype for this game and MMO players LOVE expansions, it is something engraved in our brains I think. 

This major and paid for story update needs to be major though (don't know if you have money left for this) I mean fully voiced, action packed, beginning middle and end story. Actions that have consequences, I mean "people can die!" kind of consequences. Sprinkle that in with maybe a new class or race, maybe a daily area some fps (an operation if you are feeling adventurous) and TAKE MY MONEY!

One good example of this would be the OMEGA DLC for Mass Effect 3. You had some foreshadowing introduced with some minor missions and some exposure that OMEGA had been taken over by Cerberus. Nothing major just giving that sweet taste that "hey guys, you know this planet? Yeah we are going there... coming soon...". That builds up hype and you basically just need one NPC voiced and the use KOTOR style of dialogue (the interface could use some work though I agree)

AFTER THAT, HIT US WITH ALL YOU GOT. I want to finish a story in Swtor and be thinking wow I got my money's worth, what if I chose something different there? Would that person have survived? What would have happened differently. 

Copy Omega that's the summary. Thank youuuu.

[KyraMalakai]

All our misconceptions are caused by the radio silence that followed the recent updates, bugs are pilling up with no acknowledgement from your part, quests missing from daily areas, choices not being reflected on story, achievements not triggering and when they get referenced is just to say "We know about it, try again next year" it's good that you finally decided to adress an issue that players have been having with the game mostly since 7.3 I guess better late than never.

That said this looks like an excuse like I ever seen one if you have been choosing the best way to use kotor style you need to reevaluate because this isn't it.

None in their right mind would think that having a conversation with the leaders of our nation not being voiced was a good idea and then all Sa'har interactions not being voiced made me feel like I wasn't the main character anymore only she would talk and it was her plan and we would have no say in it and even if you had ten choices in there it would still only come down to two paths which would converge on the same one.

As for the daily area type of quests not being voiced I guess it is fine but do it like on Manaan where it was a clearly defined separed area not like it is now when you mix everything together and we never know what we are getting next, everytime I see those black bars appear my soul dies a little.

In short do not do kotor style on the main story our character not having a voice is a dealbreaker for me and recent events are not making me hopeful.

[ForfiniteStories]

Perhaps they can finally give us a story that has an end, a unique farewell for each eight classes even. Then after, we'd only get story through daily areas and group content, if even that. Just no more isolated story content.

I can forego new story content if it means we can finally get a conclusion. I'd hate to have things continue as they are now, spread out over years with little voice acting being incorporated. Better to have it end with a bang than a whimper.

To fill the game in its place, they can then give us the ability to replay any part of the story on our characters, like how chapters are set up.

This would free up resources tremendously, no? And we can just replay any story if we feel like doing that content, no?

I understand that some players may not appreciate the fact that our characters also need to retire at some point. How else can they drag things along? How many times do we need to save the galaxy? I mean, if the budget isn't there...

And if it ever becomes a necessity to continue the story in some way, perhaps then they can do so. If not in-game, then publish books and comics. It'd be great to read post-SWTOR story for example, and have 'The Barsen'thor' be mentioned or even make an appearance, as I can just pretend that it's my Barsen'thor.

Edited June 21 by ForfiniteStories

[toomanyluigis]

All these questions "when/where have they ever taken player feedback seriously" are just getting stupid. There has been many times the devs have applied player feedback to the game, most players are either just grumpy that the new "problem of the month" is not fixed "now".

Here are a few examples of player feedback being put into the game:

-High res character preview
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179942-suggestionhigh-res-item-preview/#comment-1806731

-Customizable UI layouts
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179930-ui-improvement-thread/#comment-1806918

-Cross faction PVP
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/180012-allow-cross-faction-ilum-amp-pvp/#comment-1806975

-'Repair All' Function for vendors
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179213-suggestion-repair/#comment-1809080
 

-Legacy Banks on Fleet
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/851307-legacy-banks-on-fleet/#comment-9177811

-Weapons in Outfitter
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/796970-being-able-to-include-weapons-to-your-outfit-design/
 

- Seasonal PVP items re-obtainable
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/849409-please-make-furious-weapon-set-and-armor-set-be-obtainable-again/#comment-9174867

These are only a handful of player suggestions that became reality, there are many more so don't say the devs don't apply player feedback.

You also need to remember that ALL things development-wise MUST go through Lucasfilm's approval first so that is another roadblock.

[eabevella]

1 hour ago, supertimtaf said:

I disagree that having a mute main character means less impactful cutscenes. If the other part of the voice cast is good enough and the story is okay, you *will* have impact provided it's presented correctly, I can point to a few examples where that's the case on games other than swtor.

 

You can't say that visual presentation doesn't impact immersion but hearing your character does. Both can, for sure. But atm I've seen more games succeed with cleaner visuals and no player VA than the opposite.

Sure, BG3 won like 5 GOTY and it has a silent player character.

But that's not the point

The point is SWTOR having no speaking player character is a DOWNGRADE from what it has.

But sure, keep convincing yourself that nothing wrong about the continue downgrading of the content quality and quantity. Soon you'll have no actual voice acted NPCs.

[Toraak]

5 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Sure, BG3 won like 5 GOTY and it has a silent player character.

But that's not the point

The point is SWTOR having no speaking player character is a DOWNGRADE from what it has.

But sure, keep convincing yourself that nothing wrong about the continue downgrading of the content quality and quantity. Soon you'll have no actual voice acted NPCs.

The reason BG 3 did so well wasn't because the PC had no voice acting to it, it was because the story was so amazing. The fact is BG 3's story is simply so much better then what we have been getting here for years, that people are so caught up on that aspect. If the story was actually Amazing, people would feel immersed into it anyway. The truth is since the end of Chapter 3 in the original stories, the story has simply gone downhill every expansion. I was barely able to get 1 character through Manaan, ruhnuk, interpreter's retreat, and Kessan's landing, because I simply have no interest in the current storyline.

[felleto]

46 minutes ago, toomanyluigis said:

All these questions "when/where have they ever taken player feedback seriously" are just getting stupid. There has been many times the devs have applied player feedback to the game, most players are either just grumpy that the new "problem of the month" is not fixed "now".

Here are a few examples of player feedback being put into the game:

-High res character preview
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179942-suggestionhigh-res-item-preview/#comment-1806731

-Customizable UI layouts
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179930-ui-improvement-thread/#comment-1806918

-Cross faction PVP
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/180012-allow-cross-faction-ilum-amp-pvp/#comment-1806975

-'Repair All' Function for vendors
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179213-suggestion-repair/#comment-1809080
 

-Legacy Banks on Fleet
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/851307-legacy-banks-on-fleet/#comment-9177811

-Weapons in Outfitter
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/796970-being-able-to-include-weapons-to-your-outfit-design/
 

- Seasonal PVP items re-obtainable
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/849409-please-make-furious-weapon-set-and-armor-set-be-obtainable-again/#comment-9174867

These are only a handful of player suggestions that became reality, there are many more so don't say the devs don't apply player feedback.

You also need to remember that ALL things development-wise MUST go through Lucasfilm's approval first so that is another roadblock.

Lol. Expect for Seasonal PVP Items it basically took them 10 years to implement these changes woopity freaking woo.

So if their track record is the same we should expect 10 years for getting UI Changes to the KOTOR dialogue or voiced content back. Glad I can set my expectations. 

Omg I can't even.

[Pirana]

1 hour ago, toomanyluigis said:

All these questions "when/where have they ever taken player feedback seriously" are just getting stupid. There has been many times the devs have applied player feedback to the game, most players are either just grumpy that the new "problem of the month" is not fixed "now".

Here are a few examples of player feedback being put into the game:

-High res character preview
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179942-suggestionhigh-res-item-preview/#comment-1806731

-Customizable UI layouts
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179930-ui-improvement-thread/#comment-1806918

-Cross faction PVP
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/180012-allow-cross-faction-ilum-amp-pvp/#comment-1806975

-'Repair All' Function for vendors
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/179213-suggestion-repair/#comment-1809080
 

-Legacy Banks on Fleet
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/851307-legacy-banks-on-fleet/#comment-9177811

-Weapons in Outfitter
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/796970-being-able-to-include-weapons-to-your-outfit-design/
 

- Seasonal PVP items re-obtainable
https://forums.swtor.com/topic/849409-please-make-furious-weapon-set-and-armor-set-be-obtainable-again/#comment-9174867

These are only a handful of player suggestions that became reality, there are many more so don't say the devs don't apply player feedback.

You also need to remember that ALL things development-wise MUST go through Lucasfilm's approval first so that is another roadblock.

It's the internet, usually those are hyperbolic statements regarding 'when have they ever taken our feedback seriously', when in reality it's that staff rarely takes our feedback seriously. Now, go into the PTS section of the forums, where they specifically ask for our feedback and find how many times they didn't listen, and no matter how many times they were asked not to do this or don't do that, and still pushed something through anyway. The older forums, the beta ones are no longer around, but they were asked and warned not to release certain things and still did back then as well. The biggest one would obviously be releasing this game too soon, which is probably nothing more than the L.A. contract with SOE ending and them wanting to push this game out, a buggy, unfinished mess. Shareholders wanted to start seeing a return on their investment, which by the way, the game wasn't in the net positive until somewhere around 2018-2019, you can find that info online.

As for your final statement, provide some evidence backing that claim up. I'm sure when it comes to something like lore, for whatever that's worth now, yeah, they probably did. All the other releases, those are part of every day MMO mechanics. I've posted this list a number of times in the past, but I seriously doubt L.A. had to be consulted prior to changing these: 

* Game launches without a group finder, a 2011 game at that. Had to meet on the fleet for something as simple as Flashpoints
* Another Star Wars MMO launches without space
* Vehicles weren't an option until level 25
* Sprint level 15, yes, you had to run sluggishly around until that level
* Anytime you loaded into a planet, you were forced to run through the orbital station prior to landing on the planet, couldn't mount up, run only
* No Strongholds and daily heroics menu to short cut quick travel and/or fix their bugs when you got stuck
* Speeders on planets, (the mechanized travel spiel droid) had to be opened up by visiting each area, you couldn't click the speeder near the spaceport and travel anywhere.
* QT terminals, you had to click on the ones you wanted to open, couldn't travel anywhere you wanted to, you either had to run there or use your own mount
* The inner ring on the fleet where the ship phase doors are located, classes had to enter their specific doors, Trooper, Smuggler, Jedi Knight etc. If you were a Trooper, you couldn't enter the Smuggler phase door for instance

If you think L.A. had to be consulted before any of that was pushed through, I have some real estate somewhere in the desert to sell you. All of those options should have been available at launch and contributed to the mass exodus that forced this game to go FTP in under a year. 

There are plenty more things I can list, but I'll let you dig it up. 

Edited June 21 by Pirana

[eabevella]

Just now, Toraak said:

The reason BG 3 did so well wasn't because the PC had no voice acting to it, it was because the story was so amazing. The fact is BG 3's story is simply so much better then what we have been getting here for years, that people are so caught up on that aspect. If the story was actually Amazing, people would feel immersed into it anyway. The truth is since the end of Chapter 3 in the original stories, the story has simply gone downhill every expansion. I was barely able to get 1 character through Manaan, ruhnuk, interpreter's retreat, and Kessan's landing, because I simply have no interest in the current storyline.

Exactly.

SWTOR story as it for not is already in a bad shape, and they downgrade the only special aspect that makes it somewhat unique. Let's face it, the animation, though I believe the animator tried their best, isn't the most impressive. The writing is watered down, and you can't have consequences like BG3 because this is a MMO game. The most SWTOR can do is class flavors and it did well in the past. Getting rid of it is just a big glaring mark that the devs don't understand their assets, waste their resources, instead of using it. I'd honestly be ok if they use a more static dialogue scene but with fully voice acted interaction. A lot of vanilla dialogues are more like this and with the use of expressions and small gestures, you can make the interaction engaging, instead of the current *space bar because why bother to read the 7 dialogue "options" that's just "yes/no" in different dialects*

[Toraak]

1 minute ago, eabevella said:

Exactly.

SWTOR story as it for not is already in a bad shape, and they downgrade the only special aspect that makes it somewhat unique. Let's face it, the animation, though I believe the animator tried their best, isn't the most impressive. The writing is watered down, and you can't have consequences like BG3 because this is a MMO game. The most SWTOR can do is class flavors and it did well in the past. Getting rid of it is just a big glaring mark that the devs don't understand their assets, waste their resources, instead of using it. I'd honestly be ok if they use a more static dialogue scene but with fully voice acted interaction. A lot of vanilla dialogues are more like this and with the use of expressions and small gestures, you can make the interaction engaging, instead of the current *space bar because why bother to read the 7 dialogue "options" that's just "yes/no" in different dialects*

You missed my point.

 

That tells me they simply need to make far better story, then worry one way or the other about whether or not a PC is voiced or not.

[felleto]

16 minutes ago, Pirana said:

It's the internet, usually those are hyperbolic statements regarding 'when have they ever taken our feedback seriously', when in reality it's that staff rarely takes our feedback seriously. Now, go into the PTS section of the forums, where they specifically ask for our feedback and find how many times they didn't listen, and no matter how many times they were asked not to do this or don't do that, and still pushed something through anyway. The older forums, the beta ones are no longer around, but they were asked and warned not to release certain things and still did back then as well. The biggest one would obviously be releasing this game too soon, which is probably nothing more than the L.A. contract with SOE ending and them wanting to push this game out, a buggy, unfinished mess. Shareholders wanted to start seeing a return on their investment, which by the way, the game wasn't in the net positive until somewhere around 2018-2019, you can find that info online.

As for your final statement, provide some evidence backing that claim up. I'm sure when it comes to something like lore, for whatever that's worth now, yeah, they probably did. All the other releases, those are part of every day MMO mechanics. I've posted this list a number of times in the past, but I seriously doubt L.A. had to be consulted prior to changing these: 

* Game launches without a group finder, a 2011 game at that. Had to meet on the fleet for something as simple as Flashpoints
* Another Star Wars MMO launches without space
* Vehicles weren't an option until level 25
* Sprint level 15, yes, you had to run sluggishly around until that level
* Anytime you loaded into a planet, you were forced to run through the orbital station prior to landing on the planet, couldn't mount up, run only
* No Strongholds and daily heroics menu to short cut quick travel and/or fix their bugs when you got stuck
* Speeders on planets, (the mechanized travel spiel droid) had to be opened up by visiting each area, you couldn't click the speeder near the spaceport and travel anywhere.
* QT terminals, you had to click on the ones you wanted to open, couldn't travel anywhere you wanted to, you either had to run there or use your own mount
* The inner ring on the fleet where the ship phase doors are located, classes had to enter their specific doors, Trooper, Smuggler, Jedi Knight etc. If you were a Trooper, you couldn't enter the Smuggler phase door for instance

If you think L.A. had to be consulted before any of that was pushed through, I have some real estate somewhere in the desert to sell you. All of those options should have been available at launch and contributed to the mass exodus that forced this game to go FTP in under a year. 

There are plenty more things I can list, but I'll let you dig it up. 

Some heroes wear no capes. 

[Trlance]

Good devs finally say anything about this Kotor style cutscenes which i strongly dislike but anyway they said nothing optimistic. In next story updates this will be more style cutscenes like that and that means they don't listen to the players but only doing what works for them what is huge dissapointment.

You said: "we can produce enough story content for the scale of each update, while also not overloading our current narrative team". Then fully voiced story update is a problem now, why it wasn't before? Look like this whole topic is no room for hope things will be better ....

[DAWUSS]

1 hour ago, ForfiniteStories said:

Perhaps they can finally give us a story that has an end, a unique farewell for each eight classes even. Then after, we'd only get story through daily areas and group content, if even that. Just no more isolated story content.

I can forego new story content if it means we can finally get a conclusion. I'd hate to have things continue as they are now, spread out over years with little voice acting being incorporated. Better to have it end with a bang than a whimper.

To fill the game in its place, they can then give us the ability to replay any part of the story on our characters, like how chapters are set up.

This would free up resources tremendously, no? And we can just replay any story if we feel like doing that content, no?

I understand that some players may not appreciate the fact that our characters also need to retire at some point. How else can they drag things along? How many times do we need to save the galaxy? I mean, if the budget isn't there...

And if it ever becomes a necessity to continue the story in some way, perhaps then they can do so. If not in-game, then publish books and comics. It'd be great to read post-SWTOR story for example, and have 'The Barsen'thor' be mentioned or even make an appearance, as I can just pretend that it's my Barsen'thor.

As long as it's not a rushed ending, which, given the seeming state of the game, might just be.

Some would posit that all 8 classes got their conclusion on Darth Marr's flagship when it went bye-bye (they all died so the Alliance Commander could advance, similar to how in Dragon Age Origins all 6 origins died so the Hero of Ferelden could advance). I'm fine with the PC getting an ambiguous exit to close out the game, where you can headcanon if your character died or not.

[Exly]

I do appreciate the effort to communicate with us.  It would be nice to see more of this.

While this is obviously disappointing news for many who have posted in this thread, it seems honest, and that is a refreshing change.

My advice going forward is that if you stop breaking things with "good" ideas that you have like you did with pvp and start talking to us more when you are in the planning phase for changes that you want to make so that you don't chase off more people.  

Remember, this is a game and will only be successful if you provide fun and entertaining content for your customers.  Your job, in my opinion, is to make it as fun/entertaining as possible. 

So, when adding content or reworking old content please keep that in mind, and even when you think you have the best idea ever, please remember to pass the idea by us to see if we agree before spending a lot of time, effort and money, making changes that we might not appreciate.

[supertimtaf]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

You think they'll make better story when they are cutting corners like this?

I'm just saying that having a better story is more important than having our main character be voiced at every cutscene *if* the presentation is alright *and* if the voice acted characters are decent at the whole acting thing. Imo having our player character be voice acted is *not* what will make or break the story. The way it is presented will however hugely impact immersion.

And, I agree, if the story is bad overall then there's not much you can do to salvage it. Definitely.

 

2 hours ago, ForfiniteStories said:

Just no more isolated story content.

I would say that the reason it feels isolated is due to the slow release of updates. I know that ESO and XIV have fairly "isolated" stories on each content update, but they're releasing those every three months instead of every six, as well as them lasting far longer than an hour (without even including the potential new dungeons that you have to go through every patch).
Here everything feels isolated because it takes forever to get a new story update, which doesn't even last that long too. If you're a stealther, chances are that you finished 7.5 in an hour or two at best. It feels bad to wait for six months, have an hour of story, and not enough meaningful content on the side to last for the five to six months of wait until the next update. It's why everything feels so disconnected from each other. Going through LotS all at once feels rather coherent on the other hand, because the content chains together fairly well.

[cannibithobbal]

While I appreciate the devs taking the time to respond to this, I do feel like from their response that they do not actually understand why we have an issue with the KOTOR style cutscenes, and don't really understand what we want.

Yes, not overworking the small dev team is important, and despite being extremely vocal about hating the unvoiced cutscenes I am always the first to say "I understand it takes much more time and money to make those scenes", but IMO the way to solve that problem and keep the game satisfying for players is not to cut down on cinematic cutscenes, but to just take longer to make each update.

We have been getting updates pushed out so fast, and clearly it is too fast to make the cutscenes cinematic without overworking the team, so omg SLOW DOWN.  We can be patient, and when the updates come out, we will all be super happy.

I would rather wait a year to get a fully voiced and cinematic cutscenes update than have an update every few months where my character is totally not engaged in or involved in half the story. 

Having more "dialogue" options with more specific references to class, etc that are unvoiced does not make a cutscene feel like it has "more depth", it makes it feel extremely shallow.  It makes it feel like my character is not involved at all, period.  They are set dressing in the scene, and I'm clicking buttons and listening to OTHER people talk.  That's not what I come to SWTOR for. 

My character not talking for half the story does not make the story feel "emotionally impactful, dynamic, and personal", more like the exact opposite on all three fronts.  It makes me feel 0 emotional connection to the story, is super boring, and makes my character feel like they may as well not even be there at all, like I am watching someone else's story, or at BEST that my character is a silent companion to another NPC.  That does not make the story feel personal, it makes my presence in it feel pointless.

As many other people have already voiced, if I wanted my character to just stand there, I could go play any other MMO, but I don't want to go play any other MMO, I love SWTOR and my characters in SWTOR and the world of SWTOR.   But as update after update has MORE of these KOTOR style cutscenes, it is sapping my will to keep playing each update.  It is just making me sad and care less and less about the overall story and about playing the game in general.  And I want to keep caring about SWTOR.

Edited June 21 by cannibithobbal

[supertimtaf]

2 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

take longer to make each update.

Genuine question, would you be okay to wait a year for an update the size of what we got for 7.5 ?

[DAWUSS]

9 minutes ago, supertimtaf said:

I'm just saying that having a better story is more important than having our main character be voiced at every cutscene *if* the presentation is alright *and* if the voice acted characters are decent at the whole acting thing. Imo having our player character be voice acted is *not* what will make or break the story. The way it is presented will however hugely impact immersion.

And, I agree, if the story is bad overall then there's not much you can do to salvage it. Definitely.

 

I would say that the reason it feels isolated is due to the slow release of updates. I know that ESO and XIV have fairly "isolated" stories on each content update, but they're releasing those every three months instead of every six, as well as them lasting far longer than an hour (without even including the potential new dungeons that you have to go through every patch).
Here everything feels isolated because it takes forever to get a new story update, which doesn't even last that long too. If you're a stealther, chances are that you finished 7.5 in an hour or two at best. It feels bad to wait for six months, have an hour of story, and not enough meaningful content on the side to last for the five to six months of wait until the next update. It's why everything feels so disconnected from each other. Going through LotS all at once feels rather coherent on the other hand, because the content chains together fairly well.

Having taken a long break from the game (before this latest sub, we just got introduced to "If HK-47 Made It Off The Station Somehow Why Not Malgus?") I was able to binge on The Story So Far content, making those gaps and time advances feel a lot smaller.
In those gaps, we really don't get any idea of what's going on either with our characters or elsewhere in the galaxy. OK, there are event weeks and what not, but even that would represent a short blip. I guess there is headcanon (where your PC has kids, visits someplace nice with the LI [or LIs, for some of you], or goes about in day-to-day activities), but that's a barely relevant wildcard.

[felleto]

1 minute ago, supertimtaf said:

Genuine question, would you be okay to wait a year for an update the size of what we got for 7.5 ?

Personally no. I would be okay with waiting a year for an update similar to MAKEB, SOR, KOTET or KOTF. Beggining, middle and end. You can charge me for that too.

[supertimtaf]

7 minutes ago, felleto said:

Personally no. I would be okay with waiting a year for an update similar to MAKEB, SOR, KOTET or KOTF. Beggining, middle and end. You can charge me for that too.

This is my feeling too. 7.5 was shallow enough. Waiting even longer just for the sake of story, without any other improvement or actual content to go through for a year would most definitely make it stop. The typical content release schedule for popular MMOs is to take between three to six months for a *complete* patch including new PvE content, PvP balance updates, side content like dailies for reputation, upgrades to crafting, new permanent (not tied to events) in-game cosmetics, new seasonal events with new rewards each time... You get the thing.

Things are not like that here, things are bad. Be it because of management issues, the lack of fundings, or anything like that. Either we find ways to increase the budget the game has, or we accept the fact that content quality will go downhill the longer time goes on. Asking players to wait a year for a content update would be akin to killing the game. I know that most of us would not stay if we had to wait a year for the next hypotetical PvP/PvE/Whatever update.

Edited June 21 by supertimtaf

[DAWUSS]

2 minutes ago, supertimtaf said:

This is my feeling too. 7.5 was shallow enough. Waiting even longer just for the sake of story, without any other improvement or actual content to go through for a year would most definitely make it stop. The typical content release schedule for popular MMOs is to take between three to six months for a *complete* patch including new PvE content, PvP balance updates, side content like dailies for reputation, upgrades to crafting, new permanent (not tied to events) in-game cosmetics, new seasonal events with new rewards each time... You get the thing.

Things are not like that here, things are bad. Be it because of management issues, the lack of fundings, or anything like that. Either we find ways to increase the budget the game has, or we accept the fact that content quality will go downhill the longer time goes on. Asking players to wait a year for a content update would be akin to killing the game. I know that most of us would not stay if we had to wait a year for the next hypotetical PvP/PvE/Whatever update.

The Grind (Dailies, etc.) can only do so much for filler content.

[cannibithobbal]

25 minutes ago, supertimtaf said:

Genuine question, would you be okay to wait a year for an update the size of what we got for 7.5 ?

If it was fully cinematic and voice acted, even all the Hutta planetary stuff?  Yes, 100% yes, no question.

I would definitely prefer if there was an update of the same length but the entire update was actually relevant ongoing story content and not "tootle around on this planet doing this side mission", but an update of that overall size that is actually quality, yes, I would wait a year for that.

 

I will also say, like, idk if I am alone in this, but honestly at this point if they devs just insist they can't do enough cinematic cutscenes due to time and the issue is time because of the small dev team and not money..... could they at least fully voice act the non cinematic scenes? 

It would still feel stale and less engaging to have stagnant unmoving cutscenes but if my character at least TALKED, and I got to hear the wonderful voice actors for the entire update, it would be so much better than uncinematic AND unvoiced. 

Ideally I would rather wait longer for fully cinematic voiced cutscenes, but if I absolutely can't have that, I would compromise and take uncinematic but fully voiced.