Credit Transfer limits to SV

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

If you want to bring a balanced field to established players and new players (which by the way you post it sounds to me like you do) then:

There is an established way to do this in modern games, server wipes. FPS / survival servers have regular wipes erasing all effort players have done regularly. Go ahead and create s suggestion post to do that, I DARE YOU!.

I think this game will literally die if bs alienates either new or old players. Server wipes would definitely upset most of the subscribing old players and make CC purchase pretty much worthless effectively killing this game

letting inflation get to high will most likely deter new players from playing this game especially end game content (if everyone already has the current end game gear who will be buying those OEMs)

Sure there are some people who will play for story but if you had to pay for a subscription would you want to spend money on a new game with easy access to bells and whistles or an old game where you have to invest like 300 hours to get 100 million credit (4000 heroic at lv 80 with just reward. With 5 min average completion time) or spend an additional $19.99 on CC to get items that will definitely sell for that price. (Things to consider: graphics are not great. People drop your group finder queue if you’re under lv 25, story is you running around a planet to accomplish like 4 task that are hella far away from each other repeated over and over again. PVP low lv queues are virtually empty, maybe they can level through FP real quick… actually better get to level 25 first)

Edited January 20 by AFadedMemory

[AFadedMemory]

30 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

However people who have plenty of real money to spend will buy at any price if they want the credits. Only the credit sellers will benefit from this situation. People who don't want to buy from credit sellers are the ones losing. 

Not having enough credit to participate in the game does increase the urgency, for some players, to buy credit. Repair cost that are 100k generates less urgency then then the 2-30 million needed for end game armor components. If you’re spend 100k on repair without have end game gear,  why?

[Dylanof]

5 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

Not having enough credit to participate in the game does increase the urgency, for some players, to buy credit. Repair cost that are 100k generates less urgency then then the 2-30 million needed for end game armor components. If you’re spend 100k on repair without have end game gear,  why?

Not to mention its fun to build a toon and have something of a goal to accomplish. you don't need everything x gear score with the best augs strait away. Build your toon give yourself a goal on the server. 

 

Instant gratification has ruined a generation of gamers who are willing to burn the economy and take away the effort of the player base that has been on the server since day one.

[TrixxieTriss]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:49 PM, Dylanof said:

You want to play but not put the effort into sustaining the account

But here’s the thing that your condescending point doesn’t take into account. We’ve already put the effort in over the years. Why should we have to do it all over again? 

[Dylanof]

32 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But here’s the thing that your condescending point doesn’t take into account. We’ve already put the effort in over the years. Why should we have to do it all over again? 

And this is why you are transferring a toon with good decent gear that can sustain/produce for itself from the other server ?

 

I can understand money to start off your adventure but not billions of credits injected. DO you have a figure in mind that would work for you with a break down as to why in numbers please ?

[TrixxieTriss]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:12 PM, frizzydude said:

I agree with that. IF they cap credits at a low amount to keep "inflation" under wraps, they need to do something about ALL credit sinks in game. Remove/reduce: Repair bills, quick travel costs, trade costs, GTN tax etc. 

While I agree this would be a reasonable approach for SV, it’s just not realistic or viable. Because the other servers still have way too many credits to be removed & they won’t just do this for one server. 

The Thread OP needs to understand that the devs don’t want to spend more time & money setting up a system specifically for SV. Nor do they want to undo months of work they did setting up those credit sinks. 

The only reasonable & therefore most logical way they’ll see it is to cap the credits per character. That maybe 10 mil or 500 mil or may even leave it at the current character cap because it’s easiest. 

YES, I know they said they were going to cap the transfer of credits to the server. But here’s the thing. I’ve been rereading what Jackie wrote. She said they were going to offer limited free transfers. But they haven’t said anything about offering any paid transfers at all.

Why does that matter in this conversation? Well, these devs are notoriously known for not doing things “the way the players expect them to or actually ask for”. It’s why I often say to people asking for a major feature changes or nerfs, to be careful what you wish for. 

So what do I mean by all of that? Let’s just say I have a feeling that “their idea of limiting credits” might be by limiting the number of character transfers to the server instead of just limiting the amount of credits a player can transfer. And if they aren’t offering paid transfers as well, then they could just say, here are 2 free transfers & then the credits flowing onto the server would be capped at 8.4 billion per account. 
Now I know that’s not what they’ve said yet, it’s just an example of what they could do here to make less work for themselves. 

Would I want them to do it this way? No way because I don’t think it would have the desired result they are hoping for. Plus it would just piss off people in both camp (Which if you think about it, is probably why they’ll do it this way so they can say there was no favouritism & have a 😂 at the same time).

Plus, I also hope they don’t do it that way because I have 100 characters on the US servers. I want to be able to transfer as many as possible for free or as cheaply as possible. Even if that means only have a small amount of credits transferred per character.

Personally I’d like to see them come up with a credit number for the whole Legacy. Wether it’s 10 million or 1 billion credits. And then saying you can transfer as many characters as you want, but the total amount of transferred credits will be limited to “X credits” per Legacy. 

I also think 10 million is on the low side of things. A more reasonable amount per Legacy would be somewhere between 100-500 million credits.

 

Edited January 21 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

22 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

if I’m not mistaken quick travel is impacted by current amount of credit in hand. 

I know this is OT, but has anyone actually tested this theory out properly? 

I ask because I’ve about 10 characters on SV that are between lvl 15 & lvl 40. All I’ve noticed is the QT costs going up the higher I level. Not how many credits I have on my character. 

[Dylanof]

10 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Personally I’d like to see them come up with a credit number for the whole Legacy. Wether it’s 10 million or 1 billion credits. And then saying you can transfer as many characters as you want, but the total amount of transferred credits will be limited to “X credits” per Legacy. 

I also think 10 million is on the low side of things. A more reasonable amount per Legacy would be somewhere between 100-500 million credits.

 

You need to look at the average wealth per legacy on the server already and possible average it out as to how much is allowable to inject in.

 

There may also be the need to Tax the import for like for like value 100,000,000 credits on SS is roughly 100k credits on SV. Would you find this acceptable ?

 

There is many ideas floating around hence why i put up the thread and would like people to comment with numbers and explain their reasoning. Gives the devs a good barometer.

[frizzydude]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

While I agree this would be a reasonable approach for SV, it’s just not realistic or viable. Because the other servers still have way too many credits to be removed & they won’t just do this for one server. 

Whilst I agree with this, then why allow restricted transfers? All servers should be the same. BUT since they are only allowing restricted transfers, then they need to adjust the credit sinks. It isn't sustainable for a lot of players, new and old.

 

3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

The Thread OP needs to understand that the devs don’t want to spend more time & money setting up a system specifically for SV. Nor do they want to undo months of work they did setting up those credit sinks. 

Yep agreed, and this leads me into the unrestricted transfers debate. To set up a new way of transferring that have restrictions, code will need to be made (I am no software dev so I have no idea how hard this may be). Instead, they should be treating ALL servers the same.

 

5 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Personally I’d like to see them come up with a credit number for the whole Legacy. Whether it’s 10 million or 1 billion credits. And then saying you can transfer as many characters as you want, but the total amount of transferred credits will be limited to “X credits” per Legacy. 

Yeah I also agree with this! I will only be transferring as many toons as I can to get the max amount of credits I can transfer - I would rather only transfer 1 but if they have low caps then I'll have to bring more.

 

8 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I also think 10 million is on the low side of things. A more reasonable amount per Legacy would be somewhere between 100-500 million credits.

Also absolutely this! I just put 10mil as a number that is enough to sustain at least a few prog raids but not flood the economy.

 

 

The main issue I see with the majority of players not wanting credits, or capped transfers, are these players must not be heavily involved in endgame PVE. I know you're a PVPer Trix, so your credit cost for all things will be substantially lower compared to what someone like me needs. As I said in my previous post, I can go through 500k repairs in a raid. Now - I've just done 3 bosses in HM Dxun. We wiped ~3 or 4 times and I have a 300k repair bill. That isn't prog raiding, just a random PUG. So based on that, we NEED our credits. If they cap at a low amount, then it will destroy the end game PVE community. We won't be farming heroics to sustain our repair bills. I think BS seriously need to consider what they think is more important and thats pleasing the old school PVE community that have been raiding for years and can now finally raid on low ping (I've gone from 350ms to <50ms) or please the casuals that just play for fun, don't do group content (Even though SWTOR is an MMO) and won't be able to afford to look nice in game.

 

Either way, there will be people that are happy with what ever BS decide, and there will be people that are salty.

[frizzydude]

3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I know this is OT, but has anyone actually tested this theory out properly? 

I ask because I’ve about 10 characters on SV that are between lvl 15 & lvl 40. All I’ve noticed is the QT costs going up the higher I level. Not how many credits I have on my character. 

It is based on character level. Same as repair costs.

[TrixxieTriss]

14 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

And this is why you are transferring a toon with good decent gear that can sustain/produce for itself from the other server ?

But what if someone doesn’t want to do that? What if they just want to send over a couple of level 80’s with basic gear so they can grind out gear at the same level as the current progressive raiders.

People who’ve been playing for long time have already done the work to acquire enough wealth so they don’t have to worry about grinding credits for silly things like repairs or QT. Your now asking them to do that all over again just because you don’t have as many credits as them. Can you see that from their perspective? And why your tone comes off as condescending?

[Dylanof]

1 minute ago, frizzydude said:

The main issue I see with the majority of players not wanting credits, or capped transfers, are these players must not be heavily involved in endgame PVE. I know you're a PVPer Trix, so your credit cost for all things will be substantially lower compared to what someone like me needs. As I said in my previous post, I can go through 500k repairs in a raid. Now - I've just done 3 bosses in HM Dxun. We wiped ~3 or 4 times and I have a 300k repair bill. That isn't prog raiding, just a random PUG. So based on that, we NEED our credits. If they cap at a low amount, then it will destroy the end game PVE community. We won't be farming heroics to sustain our repair bills. I think BS seriously need to consider what they think is more important and thats pleasing the old school PVE community that have been raiding for years and can now finally raid on low ping (I've gone from 350ms to <50ms) or please the casuals that just play for fun, don't do group content (Even though SWTOR is an MMO) and won't be able to afford to look nice in game.

 

Either way, there will be people that are happy with what ever BS decide, and there will be people that are salty.

And this is why i brought up the issue of removing damage to gear entirely like other MMO's such as GW2 the unfortunate thing after the stronghold doors and legacy there isnt much of a credit sink after that.

 

Can you recommend a new credit sink you would be happy with ? or would you prefer a flat fee at yellow and red repair ?

 

[Dylanof]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But what if someone doesn’t want to do that? What if they just want to send over a couple of level 80’s with basic gear so they can grind out gear at the same level as the current progressive raiders.

People who’ve been playing for long time have already done the work to acquire enough wealth so they don’t have to worry about grinding credits for silly things like repairs or QT. Your now asking them to do that all over again just because you don’t have as many credits as them. Can you see that from their perspective? And why your tone comes off as condescending?

The value of the credits is what is at issue here.

You are thinking that 1 credit on SS has the exact same value as it has on SV it doesn't.

 

That is your issue you cant reconcile that fact.

 

[frizzydude]

1 minute ago, Dylanof said:

And this is why i brought up the issue of removing damage to gear entirely like other MMO's such as GW2 the unfortunate thing after the stronghold doors and legacy there isnt much of a credit sink after that.

 

Can you recommend a new credit sink you would be happy with ? or would you prefer a flat fee at yellow and red repair ?

 

Whilst I agree with the removal of repair costs - it still doesn't help with all the other QoL upgrades that PVErs want. As Trix just said, we have worked hard for YEARS to earn our credits. We shouldn't be put at a disadvantage because the causal conquest solo player won't be able to afford the dye from the GTN to make their outfit pretty.

[Dylanof]

Just now, frizzydude said:

Whilst I agree with the removal of repair costs - it still doesn't help with all the other QoL upgrades that PVErs want. As Trix just said, we have worked hard for YEARS to earn our credits. We shouldn't be put at a disadvantage because the causal conquest solo player won't be able to afford the dye from the GTN to make their outfit pretty.

What im saying is that the credits on SS are of lesser value due to inflation and bloat that has built up over the decade.

 

1 credit on SS is of much lesser value that it is on SV. if they were to offer equal real value for the credits would you be happy with that ? it would remove x amount of of the older economies repairing them to a slight degree while offering you equal value in this non inflated economy ?

[frizzydude]

1 minute ago, Dylanof said:

The value of the credits is what is at issue here.

You are thinking that 1 credit on SS has the exact same value as it has on SV it doesn't.

 

That is your issue you cant reconcile that fact.

 

If a repair costs me 100k after 1 wipe on SS, it costs 100k on SV after 1 wipe. 1 credit is EXACTLY THE SAME on each server. What isn't the same is the wealth of the economy. Returning players, new players, casual ftp players are always going to have a lower-class amount of credits. 

[TrixxieTriss]

46 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

There may also be the need to Tax the import

I don’t mind paying an import tax. But it should be based on a flat percentage, not a fee structure. So if I decided to bring 1 billion credits (as an example) & the import tax was 10% (only using 10% as an example because it’s easily divided), then I’d be paying 100 million in taxes. But if I only wanted to import 100 million, I’d only be paying 10 million in taxes. 

But here’s the thing, if they do an import tax idea, then it should be the same for every server transfer in the game, not just SV. And if they’re going to do that, then there should also be no limit on how many credits you can transfer between servers besides how many credits your character can hold. 

Edited January 21 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

10 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

It is based on character level. Same as repair costs.

That’s what I thought. Thank you for confirm that. 

[Dylanof]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

I don’t mind paying an import tax. But it should be based on a flat percentage, not a fee structure. So if decided to bring 1 billion credits (as an example) & the import tax was 10% (only using 10% as an example because it’s easily divided), then I’d be paying 100 million in taxes. But if I only wanted to import 100 million, I’d only be paying 10 million in taxes. 

But here’s the thing, if they do an import tax idea, then it should be the same for every server transfer in the game, not just SV. And if they’re going to do that, then there should also be no limit on how many credits you can transfer between servers besides how many credits your character can hold. 

1 billion credits would be roughly 1 million credits on the SV economy though. 

[frizzydude]

Just now, Dylanof said:

What im saying is that the credits on SS are of lesser value due to inflation and bloat that has built up over the decade.

 

1 credit on SS is of much lesser value that it is on SV. if they were to offer equal real value for the credits would you be happy with that ? it would remove x amount of of the older economies repairing them to a slight degree while offering you equal value in this non inflated economy ?

I would be impartial to a game-wide wipe of credits. If you have > x amount, after x date they will be removed from game. BUT that will piss off a lot of end game raiders and force them to leave. 

Credits currently do have the same value, it's the items that the value has changed.

[Dylanof]

Just now, frizzydude said:

I would be impartial to a game-wide wipe of credits. If you have > x amount, after x date they will be removed from game. BUT that will piss off a lot of end game raiders and force them to leave. 

Credits currently do have the same value, it's the items that the value has changed.

Well this was one of my original bubbles offer new american/european servers and allow free credit free toon transfers and give a closure date for the older servers. repairing the economy in one fell swoop. This could offer something interesting as well a cross server GTN because the inflation would have been taken out of the economy and could be controlled well current de inflation measures.

 

I do like the idea of flat fee repairs though.

[TrixxieTriss]

12 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

Whilst I agree with this, then why allow restricted transfers? All servers should be the same. BUT since they are only allowing restricted transfers, then they need to adjust the credit sinks. It isn't sustainable for a lot of players, new and old

I don’t disagree, what you’re saying is totally reasonable. I’m just trying to show you how they are probably approaching the issue from a cost benefit standpoint. 
 

14 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

they should be treating ALL servers the same

Also reasonable & logical from a cost benefit perspective. 
 

16 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

PVE. I know you're a PVPer Trix, so your credit cost for all things will be substantially lower compared to what someone like me needs

Totally agree. It’s why I’m staying out of that part of it because I accept other players needs are different to mine. I’d personally be over the moon with 100 million. It would allow me to play comfortably & not have to worry about credits all the time or wether I can afford to make the 20th outfit my character has on. But I also know that progression raiders would need 5 - 10x more than me. It’s why I suggested 100 -500 million as the range. And if you still don’t think that’s enough, then maybe 1 billion?

21 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

Either way, there will be people that are happy with what ever BS decide, and there will be people that are salty

Yep, but as long as they do what’s best for the majority of players & the continued growth of the server, then I’m ok with that. Sadly, I think everyone will be salty over the final decision. I have this feeling non of us will be happy. 

[TrixxieTriss]

21 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

Can you recommend a new credit sink you would be happy with ? or would you prefer a flat fee at yellow and red repair ?

I’ve already done that in another thread where they asked for credit sink ideas. 

[frizzydude]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Totally agree. It’s why I’m staying out of that part of it because I accept other players needs are different to mine. I’d personally be over the moon with 100 million. It would allow me to play comfortably & not have to worry about credits all the time or wether I can afford to make the 20th outfit my character has on. But I also know that progression raiders would need 5 - 10x more than me. It’s why I suggested 100 -500 million as the range. And if you still don’t think that’s enough, then maybe 1 billion?

Yeah certainly we need a lot more than PVPers.

 

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Yep, but as long as they do what’s best for the majority of players & the continued growth of the server, then I’m ok with that. Sadly, I think everyone will be salty over the final decision. I have this feeling non of us will be happy. 

The problem I see with this, is the majority of people that post of forums, are the casual gamers. I'm chatting to fellow PVErs in discord now, and none of them use the forums. So BS will make their decision based on the majority of forum posts, not what the community actually wants or needs. 

[TrixxieTriss]

21 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

The value of the credits is what is at issue here.

You are thinking that 1 credit on SS has the exact same value as it has on SV it doesn't.

 

That is your issue you cant reconcile that fact.

 

Please don’t condescend to me. If you want my continued interaction in your thread (which you specifically asked for), then be respectful.