GTN selling an augmented item strips the augment slot but doesn't return it if the item doesn't sell

[Silicon_Dragon]

Is this working as intended? Should it only remove the augment slot when someone BUYS the item? If we cancel the listing or it expires, we get the item back w/o the augment slot.  I can see this being a simple, lazy way of handling this, but why not think of us crafters, instead?

While you're at it, please give us something of equal value when stealing our augment slots, ok?  Maybe as with other items, we get 2 items upon crit'ing instead of getting an augment slot that just gets taken away when we attempt to sell it?

[Char_Ell]

You really aren't taking the time to do your research before making these "bug reports."  You were pointed to the info about the GTN changes when you thought you should be getting your listing fee refunded and thought that was a bug when it wasn't.  This was an announced change to the GTN with its redesign in 7.4, same as the deposit being changed to a non-refundable listing fee.

Quote

 

Galactic Trade Network (GTN) Revamp

The GTN is completely rebuilt, making it more accessible but also familiar to players. Players will see a new advanced search section, and a more streamlined flow for claiming and selling items. More information can be found here.

 

When you click the here link you will be taken to this thread that has the following info:

On 10/27/2023 at 9:52 AM, JoeStramaglia said:

Additional Changes:

• Due to some backend changes we no longer support items with random stat allocations  on the Galactic Trade Network. These are primarily world drops from leveling up to 70. These will continue to be tradable and marketable versions of their appearances will eventually be made available in game wherever they are not currently.
• Similarly in the case of Crafted Augmented Gear, we will still allow the gear to be sold but the Augmentation Slot will be removed. We will warn you in this case before you list the item 

 

I've seen someone else post a pic of the warning message they got when they went to list an item with an augmentation slot.  As a game developer I hope you can appreciate the value of not cluttering up bug reports with reports that are not bugs.

[Silicon_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Char_Ell said:

You really aren't taking the time to do your research before making these "bug reports."

@Char_Ell  Since you claim to know what I have and haven't done better than I know myself, I suggest you post all my bug reports for me, please?  I also strongly suggest you reading the forum sticky, Bug Report Sub-Forum Guidelines, where it never mentions cross-checking expected behaviors with Test Server postings.

My bad for expecting to find production changes in the official Patch Notes instead of Test Server postings. 😕

Now, since a bug refers "incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways", and the determination of a bug report's validity is the responsibility of the triage team, not end users. Referring to "behave in unintended ways", that is according to the viewpoint of end users, not developers. Devs are responsible for find and fixing code bugs, usability issues as well if the company doesn't have a QA team. Actual behavior differing from expected behavior is completely subjective and in no way invalidates an end user's judgement of a feature not behaving as the user expects; these differences are also bugs.  Sadly, not everyone is a software engineer and has been coding games for 40+ years. 😢

Edited December 8, 2023 by Silicon_Dragon
Suggestion added.

[Char_Ell]

2 hours ago, Silicon_Dragon said:

@Char_Ell  Since you claim to know what I have and haven't done better than I know myself, I suggest you post all my bug reports for me, please?  I also strongly suggest you reading the forum sticky, Bug Report Sub-Forum Guidelines, where it never mentions cross-checking expected behaviors with Test Server postings.

The 7.4 patch notes have a link to the post detailing the GTN changes (yes, said post is in the PTS forum).  I provided that to you in your bug report post about not getting your deposit, now listing fee, refunded.  My guess is the devs did not want to include all the detail of the GTN changes in the 7.4 patch notes post itself because the list is extensive and would have made the patch notes a lot longer.  Judging by the GTN complaints I've seen posted some highlighting some of the major GTN changes in the 7.4 patch notes posting itself may have reduced complaints about unexpected behavior, heavy emphasis on the phrase "may have."

So if I return to your original thread title "GTN SELLING AN AUGMENTED ITEM STRIPS THE AUGMENT SLOT BUT DOESN'T RETURN IT IF THE ITEM DOESN'T SELL" and question "Is this working as intended?" my answer/opinion is this is working as intended and is not a bug.

In the process leading up to posting an item with an augment slot on the GTN 7.4 I performed the following steps and observed behavior:

1. Open GTN window, BUY tab is pre-selected.
2. Right click on item with augment slot in my inventory and word [Augmented] in its item name.
3. RESULT - item I right clicked on has a lock symbol in my inventory and also appears with lock symbol in the SELL tab of the GTN window.  Additionally a pop-up window appears with title "WARNING" and text "Putting this item up on the GTN will remove any augment slot this item has." with two clickable buttons, OK and CANCEL.

If CANCEL button is selected, the item is removed from the SELL tab and no longer has a lock symbol over it.  The item retains its augment slot and the word [Augmented] in its name.

If OK button is selected, I was able to then enter buyer's unit price and select a duration for the listing.  After clicking on the CREATE SALE button the augmented item appeared in the Active Auction section of the SELL tab.  Additionally the item no longer has [Augmented] displayed as part of the item name.

I then clicked on the X button to cancel the listing, clicked on the CLAIM button, and Claim Items window appeared.  I observed the item name in the Claim Items window still does not have the word [Augmented].

Clicked on the Claim button in the Claim Items window and the item then appeared in my inventory.  I confirmed it still did not have the word [Augmented] in its item description and no longer had an augment slot.

CONCLUSION: The updated behavior for the GTN works as intended with respect to the listing of items with an augment slot.  The game warns the user that putting the item on the GTN will remove any augment slot.  The user is able to cancel the action to retain the item with its augment slot.  If the user selects OK in the warning message then the augment slot is removed from the item.

If you did not receive the warning pop-up window when listing an item with an augment slot then I think that would be a bug, a.k.a. unexpected behavior.  However, if you received the warning message and clicked on OK and then expected the item with augment slot to be returned with its augment slot when it didn't sell then you expected behavior from the game when it did not set an expectation that unsold items with an augment slot would be returned with augment slot intact.  Patch notes are not needed for this.  The process of informing the user about what happens when items with augment slots are listed on the GTN is fully addressed within the game.

[Thorzek]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:06 PM, Char_Ell said:

You really aren't taking the time to do your research before making these "bug reports."  You were pointed to the info about the GTN changes when you thought you should be getting your listing fee refunded and thought that was a bug when it wasn't.  This was an announced change to the GTN with its redesign in 7.4, same as the deposit being changed to a non-refundable listing fee.

When you click the here link you will be taken to this thread that has the following info:

I've seen someone else post a pic of the warning message they got when they went to list an item with an augmentation slot.  As a game developer I hope you can appreciate the value of not cluttering up bug reports with reports that are not bugs.

You don't have to be so high-and-mighty about it.  I thought greenies were supposed to be helpful leaders not sniping wankers.  A simple "this was an expected change" with the links would have sufficed.

[Char_Ell]

Just now, Thorzek said:

You don't have to be so high-and-mighty about it.  I thought greenies were supposed to be helpful leaders not sniping wankers.  A simple "this was an expected change" with the links would have sufficed.

Not sure what you are talking about.  Perhaps you're confusing SWTOR forums with some other game's forums?  The use of a green font on SWTOR forums doesn't mean anything other than the person specifically chose to use green as their font color, a personal choice.  It doesn't mean I'm a "helpful leader."

[LD_Little_Dragon]

28 minutes ago, Thorzek said:

You don't have to be so high-and-mighty about it.  I thought greenies were supposed to be helpful leaders not sniping wankers.  A simple "this was an expected change" with the links would have sufficed.

Dev posts are yellow.  There are no other assigned colours.

Any other colour text is just vanity on the poster's part.

Personally I tend to skip over posts with colour text.  Most times it's harder to read the default text anyway and you rarely miss much by skipping them.

[Silicon_Dragon]

2 hours ago, Thorzek said:

You don't have to be so high-and-mighty about it.  I thought greenies were supposed to be helpful leaders not sniping wankers.  A simple "this was an expected change" with the links would have sufficed.

I agree, there was no reason for Char_Ell to be insulting, especially if he's ignorant about the software industry actually works; I can forgive him for the latter, but not the former which is why I reacted so.

I don't understand about the "greenie" part, though. Is that referring to text color? If so, I didn't know there were rankings in these forums. Or according to LD_Little_Dragon, text color is just arbitrary?

[Grendel_Echo]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:40 PM, Silicon_Dragon said:

Is this working as intended? Should it only remove the augment slot when someone BUYS the item? If we cancel the listing or it expires, we get the item back w/o the augment slot.  I can see this being a simple, lazy way of handling this, but why not think of us crafters, instead?

While you're at it, please give us something of equal value when stealing our augment slots, ok?  Maybe as with other items, we get 2 items upon crit'ing instead of getting an augment slot that just gets taken away when we attempt to sell it?

I fully agree with your point. Moreover I cannot understand this devs decision. They literally stripped us of an extra possible income, that was always connected with augmented item. In return they do not give anything. Not even explained why they did this change, which in my understanding means only "we did it because we wanted and don't give a heck about players opinion". It was explained on PTS, but it's wrong and should be always considered a bug (or if not bug, than at least a bad change/functionality) because it worked before, and now doesn't work. If people will accept without cultural objections any such decisions, than one day the devs will think that way about all their changes to this game. Hey people, now it works as intended. Was working better before? Nooo, now works better. Don't you like it? Your loss.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Grendel_Echo

[Silicon_Dragon]

5 hours ago, Grendel_Echo said:

I fully agree with your point. Moreover I cannot understand this devs decision. They literally stripped us of an extra possible income, that was always connected with augmented item. In return they do not give anything. Not even explained why they did this change, which in my understanding means only "we did it because we wanted and don't give a heck about players opinion". It was explained on PTS, but it's wrong and should be always considered a bug (or if not bug, than at least a bad change/functionality) because it worked before, and now doesn't work. If people will accept without cultural objections any such decisions, than one day the devs will think that way about all their changes to this game. Hey people, now it works as intended. Was working better before? Nooo, now works better. Don't you like it? Your loss.

I think whoever's in charge of commerce for SWTOR is...The Empire.   Think about it.  Here's a real example:

1. I want to sell a Discovery Mission for 1,000 creds
2. Post the item at 1,000 creds (using default settings)
3. Buyer's Unit Price: 1,000
4. Buyer's Tax: 57
5. Listing Fee: 250
6. Total Profit: 693

Result: I lose 30% of my price.  What to do?  Jack up my price to get my expected price of 1,000 creds.  Does the GTN window allow for this?  No.  I have to GUESS at a price, estimating losing 30% of my price.  So I try changing my price to 1,300 which gets me closer at 976.  I then start trying price after price until I finally zero-in on 1,000 profit; it took a total of 6 price "guesses" where I finally landed on a price of 1,325 to make 1,000 credits.  The poor buyer ends up paying 1,325 creds for a 1,000 item, then complains about how over-priced everything is on GTN.

What's wrong with this and why do I say that the game owners work for The Empire?  Think...the seller pays the Buyer's Tax!  Why in the heck would the seller ever pay the buyer's tax?  This isn't a buyer's tax at all, it's a SELLER'S TAX.  This game truly is "in a galaxy far, far away" because I doubt there's anyone in THIS galaxy where the seller pays seller tax and the buyer gets off Scot free.   At least, everyone on Earth where I've seen a sales tax, the seller collects a tax that the buyer pays and passes it on to their governments.  SWTOR's system has always been pretty screwy, only it's just now that I really stop and think about just how bass-ackwards it really is.  The only way I can explain it is that the SWTOR commerce system is run by The Empire. 😛

/rant off

[Thorzek]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:52 AM, Char_Ell said:

It doesn't mean I'm a "helpful leader."

Well you delivered on this

 

On 12/10/2023 at 1:40 PM, Silicon_Dragon said:

I don't understand about the "greenie" part, though. Is that referring to text color? If so, I didn't know there were rankings in these forums. Or according to LD_Little_Dragon, text color is just arbitrary?

Back at release I think (or incorrectly recalled) that "community leaders" or some other such designation as helpful always posted in green text.  That was over 10 years ago though, so maybe things have changed and maybe I am just remembering wrong. 

[Char_Ell]

3 hours ago, Thorzek said:

Back at release I think (or incorrectly recalled) that "community leaders" or some other such designation as helpful always posted in green text.  That was over 10 years ago though, so maybe things have changed and maybe I am just remembering wrong. 

Let me help you with this.  You are remembering wrong.  SWTOR never had this "community leaders" that posted in green text you refer to.  You must be confusing some other game's forums with SWTOR's.