improvements to help guilds

[Wolfeismyname]

hi

 

i have been playing this game for aver 10 years now and i have been a guild master for 9 of those years and it is a pain to keep a guild going so is it possible to help the guild and not just those who join it?

for example:

-a membership fee, a percentage of all the credit loot a member earns and that percentage is determined bij the gm.

that way big guilds can ask more because they offer more.

- that extra guild stronghold you where talking about.

- the ability to show a guild rank insignia next to your name

- guild conquest rewards for guildship upgrades go to the guild automaticaly.

- a guild conquest/event reward for the guild.

- a reward for people who recruit other players into the guild.

 

these are just a few ideas i have and i am sure other players have more of them (i know i do;-))

 

Dash Wolfe guild master of "Standing Tall"

Darth Malgus server

Edited January 10, 2023 by Wolfeismyname

[SteveTheCynic]

6 hours ago, Wolfeismyname said:

-a membership fee, a percentage of all the credit loot a member earns and that percentage is determined bij the gm.

that way big guilds can ask more because they offer more.

There's plenty of scope for abuse in that, especially if the GM chooses the percentage, and double-especially if the percentage is selectable differently for different ranks.  And there's even scope for abuse in the other direction, of the "well, you're already siphoning off my credits without a way for me to refuse, so no, I'm not going to chip in any more than that" type.

6 hours ago, Wolfeismyname said:

the ability to show a guild rank insignia next to your name

Who would determine the insignia, and why would it mean anything for outsiders?

6 hours ago, Wolfeismyname said:

a reward for people who recruit other players into the guild.

Paid how?  From where?  And why shouldn't that be left simply as the responsibility of the guild to do directly, as in, an officer/GM grabs the relevant item/credits from the bank and mails it to the recruiter?

[bluehufsa]

Nope. Just nope. I'm not paying to be a member of a guild, a lot of guilds keep players at the lowest rank forever, don't give them repair funds or summon funds, make Discord mandatory for rank advancement ( Discord is a hive of scum, villainy, abuse, sexual harassment ) and OF COURSE, Star Parse for each and every group activity, from heroics on Coruscant to Anomaly operation.

Why pay? Only to be hummiliated over and over again for my "low dps" as a mercenary ? To be FORCED to ERP on Discord? Yes i was kicked from 4 guilds for refusing to register on their Discord, ERP, send photos of myself and so on.

I'm not paying a single credit to ANY kind of guild, i make weekly 4-5 m conquest points, that should be enough payment for all the cr*p i have to endure.

 

 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

7 hours ago, bluehufsa said:

Nope. Just nope. I'm not paying to be a member of a guild, a lot of guilds keep players at the lowest rank forever, don't give them repair funds or summon funds, make Discord mandatory for rank advancement ( Discord is a hive of scum, villainy, abuse, sexual harassment ) and OF COURSE, Star Parse for each and every group activity, from heroics on Coruscant to Anomaly operation.

Why pay? Only to be hummiliated over and over again for my "low dps" as a mercenary ? To be FORCED to ERP on Discord? Yes i was kicked from 4 guilds for refusing to register on their Discord, ERP, send photos of myself and so on.

I'm not paying a single credit to ANY kind of guild, i make weekly 4-5 m conquest points, that should be enough payment for all the cr*p i have to endure.

 

 

I don't let other people in video games tell me what I have to do, what I can't do, what I can say, what I can't say, who I play with, take orders, or obey rules other than TOS. I take no one as my superior, other than a raid group leader, while in a raid, which is necessary for progression raiding for strategy purposes.

Might explain why I've been kicked out of 15 guilds over the last 9 years =p After # 15, which was about 3 years ago, I never joined a guild again, nor will I.

You don't need a guild in this game, all you need is some friendly players who like each other and that's enough to do all the content in the game.

I was in 2 HM/NiM progression raid groups where everyone in the group was from the same guild and they made an exception for me because I wouldn't join the raid group if I had to join the guild. - Both my raid groups were fine with that and we got on great and had a ton of fun.

 

I don't need no stinken guild! =]

[xordevoreaux]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:00 AM, Wolfeismyname said:

it is a pain to keep a guild going

This is the entire premise of your post.

As someone who created guilds in 2014 and maintained them until last year, one piece of unsolicited advice: spread the pain around.

Don't try to do everything yourself. If you don't have a cadre of officers helping you, and you have burdened yourself with the entire task management of running a guild, yes, you'll find it a pain.

I see an obvious problem with the solution to your premise: Your suggested series of rewards / enticements are based on the idea of individual greed: pay people enough, you'll induce the behavior you want.  When the money runs out, your guildies run out the door because that's the incentive you gave them to hang around.

If you cannot inspire people to help you do what you need done for the sake of the guild itself, but instead rely on handing out a steady stream of cash, you do not have guild members. You have mercenaries, and they will think and act like mercenaries.

Let's say you pay them x amount to do y.  Then one day you want them to do z as well.
Guess what? Naturally enough, because you have habituated them to it, they'll ask for more monetary compensation, and the second another guild offers more cash than you do, *POOF* those mercenaries are gone.

As a guild leader, I've tried my best over the years to build up my guild like a family. My members all know my real name, and call me by my real name.
They've seen my face. They know the city in which I live.

We're on a personable level with each other. We know who owns cats. We know who lives on the east coast. We know who lives in Canada, and we all know who loves to drink G.D. bourbon. And scotch. And amaretto. When members get sick, we miss them and wish them all the best to get better. When people have personal issues going on in their lives, we offer to be a sounding board. People can vent at me for anything any time they darn well please.

Short of it, we care about each other. We are not strangers. We value each other's company as much or more than we do playing the game. 

Forget what you believe a guild is supposed to be. Guilds, above all else, are player associations, like a soccer team, like a chess team, like a swim team.

The more those team members feel personally invested in the guild as a continuing concern because the guild provides them with the positive feedback of friendship, and good times, the more likely your guild members will want to help you to keep that guild a continuing concern and it won't cost you a dime.

They'll do it because they want to. That is the task before you: reshape the guild's culture so that people feel they're part of a team. A family. A going concern.
I'll hazard you'll get far better results that way than you ever will by throwing money at them.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[SteveTheCynic]

8 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

Guilds, above all else, are player associations, like a soccer team, like a chess team, like a swim team.

I've always called them "adventuring clubs".

[BladedDingo]

WoW used to have the ability for guilds to have a "tax". it was a guild perk that the guild could access by leveling up.

It didn't take money from the players, rather when a player in the guild looted gold from a mob, the game would generate 5-10% extra, then deposit the extra in the guild bank.

So, players didn't lose the gold they looted, but the guild got something in the bank.

It was removed in part because some guilds would embezzle the gold their members earned for the guild, creating massive casual guilds to invite any random joe who accepted their invite, then the GM pocketed the gold earned by the members.

Gold earned via trading, quests, auction house etc. was exempt, only gold earned via looting would generate the extra guild gold.

however, with the rampant inflation in SWTOR, I don't know if allowing players to magically generate more credits would a good thing or not.

Edited January 12, 2023 by BladedDingo

[casirabit]

There is no way our guild would ever charge a membership fee.  That doesn't feel right.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:11 AM, SteveTheCynic said:

I've always called them "adventuring clubs".

The D&D is strong with this one...

=p

[SteveTheCynic]

7 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

The D&D is strong with this one...

=p

"present" rather than "strong", but yes.

[StephenAlberts]

What about a guild tools kit to report information at a specific point in time (Tuesday Morning just before reset) so Raid participation or conquest rewards can be granted accurately?

The ability to update guild ranks based on the reports listed above?

 

[xordevoreaux]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:27 PM, StephenAlberts said:

What about a guild tools kit to report information at a specific point in time (Tuesday Morning just before reset) so Raid participation or conquest rewards can be granted accurately?

The ability to update guild ranks based on the reports listed above?

 

It's called Discord, and it's as great place to roll everything into one place -- calendar, playing tips, the dev feed, and interaction. No game could completely replicate those features fully, and human nature being what it is, I suspect many people would simply opt to continue doing that they do now, using their web site, Discord. whatever.

Even in Everquest 2, which has it's own built-in (albeit sourced from a third party) voice chat channel? What do my guild members use there?

Discord.

Edited March 14, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[kjarnage]

There are guilds that are very exclusive because they are the best or near the best at what they do. They can just tell you to mail the credits or they kicked you.  That is not how I operate guild nor am I good enough to belong to such nor would I want to belong to such if I were that good. Some guilds pay huge sums of credits or give valuable items or both to their best members.    

A guild should offer friendship, knowledge of the game, ability to compete in conquest if you want to, some repairs, let players play solo or with others.  In short the guild should exist to help the players enjoy the game but not spoil them. As a guild master I want you to be happy, not mercenary happy. If not happy here than even willing to help direct you to a different guild. If you are disruptive community influence expect to be kicked.

I can however understand guilds are very different and have different focuses such as ERP guilds wanting to make sure members are adults.  https://swtorfancommunity.com/guilds/ allows you to search for a guild that might fit you.  Or to advertise your guild. Recruiting is a pain. Too bad people opt to join any  guild rather than seeking one that fits their needs.

Top guilds have huge advantages over small or mid size guilds, Huge guilds do not need more advantages, they seem to be doing just fine.   

Other than bragging rights being in the top ten in conquest and not number one gets you nothing.

Maybe a top ten in PVP and GSF should be added. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mubark]

1. -a membership fee, a percentage of all the credit loot a member earns and that percentage is determined bij the gm.

No. No person will ever want to pay a guild just to be a member of that guild for any reason, ever.

In my guild(s), we pay members who get the top 10 ranks in Conquests each week. That's more in line as to "what it should be."

2. - that extra guild stronghold you where talking about.

I support the idea of more guild "ships" in the game. And I support the idea of having "several" guild strongholds.

3. - the ability to show a guild rank insignia next to your name.

I'm on the fence on this one honestly. We don't need another thing to put beside, under, over, or anywhere near our name. We have enough crap there as it is.

However, I would fully support something like what's in Star Trek Online. In that game, you can place a fleet logo on your uniform. But for this game, I'd want the ability to place a rank symbol on a chest plate, or on a shirt sleeve. Even better on the chest like the rank bars similar to the ones on the Rebel Alliance and Imperial Officer uniforms.

Our guild ranks are in Mando'a, but it would still work because our guild ranks are normal military ranks, just in the Mandalorian language.

4. - guild conquest rewards for guildship upgrades go to the guild automatically.

No. With exception to Flagship encryptions. And in that case, allow those to go automatically into the guild bank. Not become automatically applied to the guild flagship. So, I, as a guild master can decide how to use them and where to use them.

5. - a guild conquest/event reward for the guild.

That's already in-game. In every Conquest/event, if you achieve 100k conquest, and If your guild, as a whole gets over the amount for Small, Medium, or Large yield, you get another reward at the end of the week. It's basically crap and mostly useless, but it still counts as a reward.

What I would like to see, is rewards becoming "Better" than crap for conquests. Especially for smaller guilds. But also, I'd like to see a single reward that is only placed for gamers who achieve that 100k requirement. Even if their guild as a whole doesn't achieve it's weekly goal.

We used to get conquest rewards the moment we hit 50k conquest. But I think they removed that.

6. - a reward for people who recruit other players into the guild.

Honestly, that's usually up to guild leadership.

In our guild, we do promotions for many things and that's one of them. If we see a member recruiting others into our guild, that earns them a promotion to the next rank up.

But I "get it".

What you want is some kind of reward, like a token or something for each person you recruit into a guild. That would be nice. But I don't see the DEVs adding yet another currency into the game... Well, for that.

[Malibbu]

i started to play MMO with Asheron's call. Yes i told you already i was old 😛

Guilds in that game had an Allegiance system where one player was able to choose anyone "patron". That patron had up to 12 "Vassals" . This was creating a vast loyalty network, as a % of a vassals experience gain was pushed up to the patron and through the chain of command. The head was the Monarch. Patrons were taking care of their vassals.

So far i never had better systems. No member was ignored, everyone was helped, and all in great fun
 

Since then i experimented WoW system ( i was probably too young and naive, the one i gave powers emptied the bank and disbanded the guild). Then swtor, and eso (i dont speak of other games that would be too long.

After i tested those guild systems, i decided to always have my personal private guild (and husband was very happy of it). I do not agree with the obligations given to players to fullfill this or that, to pay for this or that.  I love to help, i dont no love to help the way guild wants. 

i always made a lot of friends, i helped more outside a guild than inside. Up to this day i still talk to my vassals from Asheron's call.

[SteveTheCynic]

2 hours ago, Mubark said:

We used to get conquest rewards the moment we hit 50k conquest. But I think they removed that.

They didn't remove it.  They changed it to 100K instead of 50K, but that's for the personal reward that pops as soon as you make the relevant figure.  If you get that personal reward *and* the guild's total beats the selected invasion goal, then when each member first logs in after the Weekly Reset point, that member gets the guild reward.

But that's what has happened for a long while, much longer than just 7.0+

[FrontLineFodder]

I would suggest that the guild conquest reward (the flagship ... encryption) mailed to the guild leader each week rather than given to the player.

also remove the crafting materials that the member could choose as one of the options.

 

If the guild is fully unlocked, allow the guildleader to then trade the flagship encryptions the guild earned.

 

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I would suggest that the guild conquest reward (the flagship ... encryption) mailed to the guild leader each week rather than given to the player.

also remove the crafting materials that the member could choose as one of the options.

 

If the guild is fully unlocked, allow the guildleader to then trade the flagship encryptions the guild earned.

 

Absolutely not. Not everyone will give those encryptions to the guild. Every guild I have ever been in gives the players the OPTION to donate them or to sell them on the GTN. The player earned them, not the guild. It should be the players choice to donate them or not.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have donated Frameworks (many) to guilds I have been in, but I've also chosen to sell many of them if I wanted the credits.

[casirabit]

9 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I would suggest that the guild conquest reward (the flagship ... encryption) mailed to the guild leader each week rather than given to the player.

also remove the crafting materials that the member could choose as one of the options.

 

If the guild is fully unlocked, allow the guildleader to then trade the flagship encryptions the guild earned.

 

No, our guild would never want that.  While I donate all my encryptions (at least until the ship is unlocked) I do not want the rest of the members' encryptions ever mailed to me.  They earned it by doing their conquest and it is their decision to do what they want with the encryptions.

 

[xordevoreaux]

10 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I would suggest that the guild conquest reward (the flagship ... encryption) mailed to the guild leader each week rather than given to the player.

also remove the crafting materials that the member could choose as one of the options.

 

If the guild is fully unlocked, allow the guildleader to then trade the flagship encryptions the guild earned.

 

No.  Just... no.

They invested their time to earn those rewards, they get to do what they want with them.

[FrontLineFodder]

wow I did not expect such passionate rejection on that.

Why ?, the players doing CQ "Earning" them are getting 15% boost to XP and CQ points, they are getting the:

• equipment crate
• Tech Frags
• Daily matrix's
• Credits
• Reinforcent components

If the Guild is providing them, they also get

• up to 6 Guildship Perks
• Guild summons
• Guild repair

Do they really need to be guaranteed the Encryption, used in game solely for the guild (actually this could be said for the reinforcement component also).

If Guilds are to be "rewarded" for conquest, it should not be my making more credits in the economy, but where can existing rewards be redistributed.

[Toraak]

45 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

wow I did not expect such passionate rejection on that.

Why ?, the players doing CQ "Earning" them are getting 15% boost to XP and CQ points, they are getting the:

• equipment crate
• Tech Frags
• Daily matrix's
• Credits
• Reinforcent components

If the Guild is providing them, they also get

• up to 6 Guildship Perks
• Guild summons
• Guild repair

Do they really need to be guaranteed the Encryption, used in game solely for the guild (actually this could be said for the reinforcement component also).

If Guilds are to be "rewarded" for conquest, it should not be my making more credits in the economy, but where can existing rewards be redistributed.

to be blunt. The guild doesn't provide all of what you claim anymore.

1) equipment crates were last expansion from the guild rewards. They do not exist anymore.

2) Tech Frags: I can earn a lot more tech frags from doing SM Ops. The ones from the guild rewards are nothing more then a bonus.

3) Daily Matrix's: Do not come from the guild rewards at all

4) Credits: Not really important. By selling the encryptions I make a lot more then from the 25k credit certificates.

5) Reinforcement Components: This is no real reward for the players. These are worthless unless donated to the guild for Guild perks

 

 

If the guild is providing.

1) guild perks are expected if your donating those reinforcement components to the guild, + if people are donating enough credits for those perks.

2) Guild summons: I don't know about others, but I donate credits to the guild whenever I use a certain amount of summons. A minimum equal to the cost of those summons, but usually a lot more. For myself ever 5 summons I'll put in 100k-500k to the guild bank. Far more then is needed, but I don't use summons often.

3) Guild Repairs: I have NEVER used guild repairs. I do not see it as the guilds job to pay my repair bills. Selling 1 encryption pays those repair bills for a long time. I once had a guild officer literally yell at me during a NiM progression night, because when someone commented they were out of guild repairs, I said outright so pay for your own. I always do and never use guild repairs. Not sure why he took offense to me not using guild repairs, but whatever.

 

The fact is the guild is rewarded for conquest by the Top ten board, and by showing that they are an active guild. 

 

Once a guild has it's ship unlocked, why would the players not want to keep those encryptions if they so desire? At that point the guild would just be selling them on the GTN like the players do, and the guild (and possibly corrupt leadership) will just put those credits into their own personal legacy storage, or alts.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Toraak

[FrontLineFodder]

Fair enough @Toraak

It sounds to me like your position is the players should support the guild, not the guild should support the players.

We have different positions then.

[xordevoreaux]

23 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

It sounds to me like your position is the players should support the guild, not the guild should support the players.

Taking the choice away from players as to what happens with what they earn during conquest is not supporting players.

[Toraak]

59 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Fair enough @Toraak

It sounds to me like your position is the players should support the guild, not the guild should support the players.

We have different positions then.

If the players support the guild, then the players will get more out of the guild. Supporting a guild creates a community the players will enjoy more then if all they do is expect the guild to support them.