Brainstorming: How does 7.0 make it easier for new players?

[JattaGin]

Fellow forumers and PTSers,

 

while testing the class missions up to chapter 3, I couldn't help thinking how any of the changes will make the gaming experience easier and more beginner-friendly for the average player?

 

I find everything more difficult to understand, more difficult to find out, slower to progress. I didn't feel guided by the game at all. Just alone the question: What is a loadout? I mean, I figured it out, because I have 10+ years experience with this game. But how shall a new player understand what this is, what this does, and why they would need it?

 

I have stated my very negative feeling about 7.0 plenty of times before. Having it tested out thoroughly now confirmed all my worries. I don't see how any of those changes make this game any better for the average player.

 

How do you see that? If you try to look neutrally at the changes that will come with 7.0: Do you think that these changes will make the game better? If yes, how?

[Taurax]

I dont think it will. I'm thinking more and more the changes are because the developers couldnt come up with more engaging content to challenge us. We already blow through all new content they spend months to create, in matters of weeks. Also balancing the classes has gotten too hard for them.

 

Their solution:

Take away abilities and lower the player stats, to make it harder while doing nothing to the content itself.

 

Case in point. The KOTFE mission Asylum, veteran mode.

On live I'm been able to complete this mission.

On test, level 80, I do everything fine all the way until Heskel, then I got wiped. As a Merc healer I can't keep up with the damage he does.

 

This change isnt about making it easier for new players, its about brining the level of the players to less than what they should be, to challenge them. Its not level-sync...its squishing the curve, or stat-clamping.

 

Another case in point. Merc/Commando healers cannot heal on the run. Basically all heals are required to stay still. This affect operations and flashpoints, unless you have the mission to get the special implant to move one heal.

[Pricia]

Maybe it's because of all the people who complained about how easy the game was? I only played a bit and definitely noticed a difference in my abilities compared to live - 5 more levels, same gear, and it was harder. It's very frustrating.

 

The confusing stuff - not going to lie, I played at launch, but it was super confusing when I came back last year. IMO... they would have been better off creating a tutorial mode for new players (just one zone where you would have pop ups explaining basic stuff like skill tree, fast travel, legacy perks, mission types etc) than doing so many useless changes.

[Sikssix]

I don't think this would make it any easier on new players should they introduce combat styles immediately. Probably once they hit level 50, but more so I believe they should be able to assist new players on learning their class and specs moreso before going into combat styles.

[JattaGin]

Thank you for your comments. I'm glad that I don't seem to be completely alone with my thoughts.

 

Two questions to BW (meant seriously, not as complaining):

 

1. Who is your target group for 7.0?

 

(I honestly don't understand for whom this expansion is supposed to be? I 50:50 rant seriously about that Mr. Kanneg makes all changes to the game according to how he likes to play it. I know it's hyperbole, but I kind of believe that this is the case, because I don't find any other sense in it. The game gets harder and more confusing for new players. And for veterans... what is the benefit of 7.0 for veteran players? Yes, some probably like to change their advanced class. But I'm sure that most veterans won't. I definitely won't. I don't see any reason to change any of my long-time 50+ chars. I only lose stuff with 7.0. I gain nothing from it (story aside).)

 

2. I request a proper TUTORIAL for new players in-game.

 

(Again, honestly: I don't fully grasp what's going on on the PTS right now. There are other threads where players tell that they don't get how gearing works now. My test char is level 79 now. I still have my Tactician 306 gear on. I haven't received or even seen any new gear yet. I played the class missions, then Makeb and am now on the Revan expansion. The gear I got so far is low level irating and is of zero use to me. How do I obtain better gear? How do I get that information IN THE GAME without checking the dev tracker or something? I believe that such information is crucial and needs to be available in-game. Alas, where do I get it? I have never had issues understanding gearing before.)

 

I have more questions regarding Galactic Season, Conquest, the new reputation, and other stuff. I'm highly confused by what I witness on the PTS. But that doesn't fit in this thread.

[WaywardOne]

For chapters - don't expect to be able to do those vet/master chapters as easily as you can @75 with 306 gear until you're @80 with 326+ (maybe 334) gear.

[Pricia]

For chapters - don't expect to be able to do those vet/master chapters as easily as you can @75 with 306 gear until you're @80 with 326+ (maybe 334) gear.

 

Good thing it's not needed for Galactic Seasons. Oh wait, it is.

[Ramalina]

I don't think it makes things easier for new players.

 

As things currently stand, I think it's actually a bit more difficult in solo leveling due to the adjustments to scaling (not enough to really matter though I think. Mostly it's just a bit slower, and you can compensate with rested xp, xp boosts, and double xp events, which are granted things that new players won't know, but they'll survive anyway.)

 

 

In low level group content, I think it will make things significantly more difficult. Tanks won't have the tools needed to tank, healers won't have the tools needed to heal, though I suppose DPS will just be a bit underwhelming. As it stands, in groupfinder flashpoints at low level you'll basically need to queue as DPS at low level and hope there's a surplus of high level tanks and healers queued up. Everyone always levels as DPS after all, right?

 

By the time you get to KotFE / KotET levels though, I think things will be about back to where they are on live, more or less, if you're well geared and have figured out how your class works with the game's mechanics.

 

In terms of quality of life improvements, it looks like 7.0 will mostly be neutral to slightly negative for players, or perhaps slightly positive if you really wanted to downsize the number of alts you play to just one or two, and were wishing you could cram several advanced classes of combat roles into one character. Unclear how much QoL the devs will get for themselves in terms of ease of maintenance and content creation out of 7.0.

 

Honestly, it looks like little to none of the expansion is really targeted at new players, and distribution of abilities as you level in the new system makes it feel like almost no thought was given to new player experience/QoL issues until they started asking for feedback on the forums a few weeks ago.

 

Not that I think there are really significant new issues for new players, but the longstanding ones are more noticeable because the leveling slog has been stretched out to 80 levels now. I do hope that the requests for input from the devs do reflect enough interest in new player retention that they actually put in some serious work to address some of the leveling QoL problems.

[WaywardOne]

Good thing it's not needed for Galactic Seasons. Oh wait, it is.

 

You can do them in story mode (which is the default). Vet/Master mode chapters and the Eternal championship are a couple things that I think solo players would like to have the best gear to do; they can be as hard as most raids.

[Pricia]

You can do them in story mode (which is the default). Vet/Master mode chapters and the Eternal championship are a couple things that I think solo players would like to have the best gear to do; they can be as hard as most raids.

 

I thought the Galactic Season 2 goal was specifically to do it in veteran or MM...

[Pricia]

I don't think it makes things easier for new players.

 

As things currently stand, I think it's actually a bit more difficult in solo leveling due to the adjustments to scaling (not enough to really matter though I think. Mostly it's just a bit slower, and you can compensate with rested xp, xp boosts, and double xp events, which are granted things that new players won't know, but they'll survive anyway.)

 

 

In low level group content, I think it will make things significantly more difficult. Tanks won't have the tools needed to tank, healers won't have the tools needed to heal, though I suppose DPS will just be a bit underwhelming. As it stands, in groupfinder flashpoints at low level you'll basically need to queue as DPS at low level and hope there's a surplus of high level tanks and healers queued up. Everyone always levels as DPS after all, right?

 

By the time you get to KotFE / KotET levels though, I think things will be about back to where they are on live, more or less, if you're well geared and have figured out how your class works with the game's mechanics.

 

In terms of quality of life improvements, it looks like 7.0 will mostly be neutral to slightly negative for players, or perhaps slightly positive if you really wanted to downsize the number of alts you play to just one or two, and were wishing you could cram several advanced classes of combat roles into one character. Unclear how much QoL the devs will get for themselves in terms of ease of maintenance and content creation out of 7.0.

 

Honestly, it looks like little to none of the expansion is really targeted at new players, and distribution of abilities as you level in the new system makes it feel like almost no thought was given to new player experience/QoL issues until they started asking for feedback on the forums a few weeks ago.

 

Not that I think there are really significant new issues for new players, but the longstanding ones are more noticeable because the leveling slog has been stretched out to 80 levels now. I do hope that the requests for input from the devs do reflect enough interest in new player retention that they actually put in some serious work to address some of the leveling QoL problems.

 

To add to that, fixing old bugs would be really useful as well.

 

Courting gifts not working, pets disappearing on zoning etc (guaranteed more people would bother with pets if that stopped happening).

[Lady_Myajha]

I tried to keep an open mind about 7.0, and even on PTS I've tried to keep an open mind figuring it's PTS and things can change.

 

But it's not easier on the vets and certainly won't be easier on the new player. It certainly doesn't help that the 7.0 content is so buggy that it barely works enough to be actually tested properly, but it's not easier to understand.

 

But lets be honest, other than bug fixes, they're not going to change anything major. What we have is what we get. Maybe they'll give us a new tutorial or two, but otherwise, it's not going to change, at least for 6 months after 7.0 goes live and the general outpouring of hate and frustration from the general population reaches their ears.

 

For example the current Renown System that is in place. When it came out, everyone hated it, to the point where months later they made changes to it.

 

The problem was, the fact that everyone hated it was made clear when it was on PTS, and the devs didn't listen.

 

The other issue here is EA/Bioware/SWTOR games I don't think play the game at the level that most players play it. You can see it in changes to the Sorcerer, where admittedly the Sorcerer was OP, but then they nerfed it into oblivion instead of listening to the players and finding a balance.

 

Course it doesn't help that the devs favorite classes are the Knight and the Bounty Hunter.

[JattaGin]

Thanks for your continuous feedback.

 

But it's not easier on the vets and certainly won't be easier on the new player.

 

This sums it all up. Old players won't benefit. New players won't benefit. That's why I asked BW earlier in this thread: Who is the target group for 7.0?

 

But lets be honest, other than bug fixes, they're not going to change anything major. What we have is what we get.

 

Exactly this. I'm still surprised that players are hoping for significant changes. Ain't gonna happen. We're testing their final version. They only fix the worst bugs we report (and which they are able to fix before February). Apart from that, 7.0 will be exactly as it is now on the PTS.