MystyqeofXev Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 the dev teams in neither game can release content at the same pace as players are able to complete it' date=' [/b'] (1) story players are great and all, but swtor and other MMOs are a business,(2) and if you are looking at it from another perspective you are bound to continue to misunderstand changes and updates as you and the developers have a totally different mindset (1) That is an excuse used by bad and or lazy Developers. EQ? ALWAYS something to do. DAOC? ALWAYS something to do. WoW until Cataclysm? ALWAYS something to do. The raiders whined, so then the majority of developers focus in EQ and WoW went towards designing raids. Oh a bone, or a scrap, was thrown to PvPers or Crafters (Because raiders need widgets), but nothing that would threaten the almighty 'Gods of X-Man, Y-Mode' activities'. (2) <<-- WARNING, LOTS OF PROFANE LANGUAGE FF to 00:45. "Every time I call it a game, you call it a business, and every time I call it a business, you call it a game" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) (1) That is an excuse used by bad and or lazy Developers. EQ? ALWAYS something to do. DAOC? ALWAYS something to do. WoW until Cataclysm? ALWAYS something to do. The raiders whined, so then the majority of developers focus in EQ and WoW went towards designing raids. Oh a bone, or a scrap, was thrown to PvPers or Crafters (Because raiders need widgets), but nothing that would threaten the almighty 'Gods of X-Man, Y-Mode' activities'. (2) <<-- WARNING, LOTS OF PROFANE LANGUAGE FF to 00:45. "Every time I call it a game, you call it a business, and every time I call it a business, you call it a game" nothing of this is relevant to the issues raised by op tho, you are trying to make the argument that EA and Bioware, two profit-driven companies, are intentionally making decisions that would reduce the revenue and tank their game, seems pretty deluded Edited November 17, 2021 by RikuvonDrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystyqeofXev Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 nothing of this is relevant to the issues raised by op tho, you are trying to make the argument that EA and Bioware, two profit-driven companies, are intentionally making decisions that would reduce the revenue and tank their game, seems pretty deluded No, I'm not making that point, Mr. Strawman. The OP talked about the story in FF14 and how they seem to be doing better than raid-focused MMOs. What I, and others have said, REPEATEDLY, is that the raid-focused MMO is an outdated paradigm. That raiders are a niche group, and that "casuals" make up the majority of the game. You made my second point for me. Thanks btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) This is one of the funniest threads I’ve read in a long long time. 🤣 Edited November 17, 2021 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dareel Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) How does expecting players to complete the same content again and again, while focusing on microtransactions, differ from FFXIV? ... SWTOR (more so in 7.0 with current plan) - repeat to get something because we told you so. FF - repeat if you like and have fun doing it. Quite a big difference, because it is a player who decides what/when/how much to repeat. Plus, microtransactions are important for SE but not the focus. Game-play is (more below). Does FFXIV have a faster cycle with churning out new MSQ and dungeons? Sure, but FFXIV isn't fully-voiced (it's rarely voiced) and their dungeons are quite literally straight corridors. I'm not trying to say SWTOR dungeons are some revolutionary paragon, but they're definitely more complicated. True. They have different focus. SWTOR has more adventure in dungeons - clear/run around, work your way to the boss... while FF more focused on actual fights with bosses, while adventure mostly happen outside of instances. I hope it's not the case of "Fully-voiced almost everything but mediocre at best game-play features" vs "Fully-voiced main plot and quests, with game-play features focus on fun". Because, imo, right now it sure looks like it. Not to mention the fact that you're highly incentivized to use microtransactions in FFXIV, too, even if they're slightly-less invasive than SWTOR. Cosmetics (Gear Visuals & Mounts / Pets / dyes / etc.): FFXIV - same quality (textures / models / effects) as in-game loot. Best looking (and the most prestigious) visuals are drops/loot from hard content. Cosmetics from shop are unique (not drop/loot recolors). If you pay extra for a cosmetic it won't have bugs (closest thing to a bug are some costumes that look weird on races with certain type of long ears/horns). SWTOR - good quality only from Market, in-game loot recolors on Market, hardly any good quality drops/loot. Many market items have bugs. Housing / Stronghold: FFXIV - majority of models/decorations are from craft professions/jobs/classes. No quality difference between shop items and crafts. SWTOR - majority from Market, a lot of reused assets. Emotes: FFXIV - majority of them you have initially, some are from events or achievements, and only 7 from cash shop (can't be unlocked any other way). SWTOR - majority from market/unlocks. Premium Currency: FFXIV - No. (There are premium currencies for a companion mobile app, never used it, non of ppl I played with used it, not usable in a main game.) SWTOR - Everything revolves around Coins. Unlocks: FFXIV - not a thing SWTOR - a lot, even for subscribers. Pay to skip: FFXIV - Skip leveling / Expansion story, nothing else. SWTOR - Skip leveling / Expansion story, Skip Game modes/features (Galactic Seasons, SF currency, Races, Legacy unlocks, etc). With this ^ you can see how much difference there is between how much SWTOR and FFXIV incentivize microtransactions. FF points to game-play first, then Shops as a real extra. SWTOR points to the Market and Coins as a main go-to. Every company wants to make money, the difference in approach they take. You can see how each company like to do things by simple comparison: Login rewards - FOMO abusive design, FF Veteran rewards for subscription time - additional thank you. ... Both have incentives to log in daily, neither has incentives to play all day every day. ... Login rewards vs Subscription Thank you. Conquests/Seasons vs Nothing. Curated content to get upgrades (Daily/Weekly bonuses) vs Nothing. Seasonal event items (Sure, you can buy them on Mogstation, but I thought FFXIV didn't use microtransactions to encourage FOMO?) Collaboration events Events are FOMO only if player makes them so. They are extra content - not a main feature / system of the game, not something for character progression, not a main game-play or how game is supposed to be played. Ability to purchase one-time only rewards from a cash-shop is a bonus, specifically to accommodate players who couldn't participate in this extra content with an ability to get what they could be interested in. SWTOR players asked for something similar with one-time things for a long time (starting with Collector's Edition). Housing Housing - yes, fully agree. If you want a house in FF you'll need to spend a lot of time at a time that is not in your control, and probably ask a few friends to do the same with you, or you have high chances of missing out. Additionally, if all of you won't login for 45 (not sure how many exactly) days you'll loose the house and it's going to go on a market for somebody else to no-life for a time to buy it. All because FF has a limited amounts of houses for sale, they position it as a feature - owning a house is something you have to put effort in. First part is definitely a FOMO - you want a house, it went on sale, you have to be there to click it or you'll miss out. But there is also workaround - buy a plot / relocate. So there is a 1 FOMO by design, that could be avoided to some extend with preparation. Saying that FFXIV lacks FOMO is, in my opinion, nonsensical. With housing situation - yes, not completely. But not in main game-play / features / systems (progression / choice of content to play / thing like that...), not in player retention systems, where SWTOR does it with FOMO, FF does it with "Play if you want". Edited November 17, 2021 by Dareel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baletraeger Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Didn’t the devs create Galactic Seasons just for you casual story players? You don’t think they created that garbage for raiders, do you? GS targets the mindless conquest grinder crowd. Galactic Seasons was created (alongside Login Rewards) to provide mobile game style extrinsic reward systems that manufacture player engagement. Why do they exist? Maybe the devs don't think players want to play the game, and in the absence of new content or a modern endgame loop they believe they need to add these blatant systems to keep players engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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