allexj Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Can we not nerf this set into oblivion? Like as it stands without this set our damage is going to be woefully lowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMrSlappy Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Agreed. It'd be really nice if sins and shadows aren't made the most consistently underperforming class every single update. Just let us have something for once, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Agreed. It'd be really nice if sins and shadows aren't made the most consistently underperforming class every single update. Just let us have something for once, please. Sins are currently by far the best dps class in solo ranked. Removing the triple maul spam is the perfect nerf for pvp. If that affects pve too much, Bioware will need to find ways that leave sins viable in pvp without being overpowered in pvp. Edited March 8, 2020 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dready_tv Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Do people even read the notes or just casually find some stuff they like to cluelessly whine about without proper understanding? Hatred / Serenity Languishing Lashes / Atrophying Attacks now increases the damage of Leeching Strike / Serenity Strike by 20% against enemies with less than 30% health Severing Slash / Cleaving Cut now spreads Discharge / Force Breach and Creeping Terror / Sever Force periodic effects. Fulguration / Rebounding Force now correctly applies to the Two Time Trouble tactical Deception / Infiltration Crackling Blasts / Deep Impact critical damage bonus increased from 5% to 20% Dominating Slashes / Prevailing Strikes now increases the damage of Voltaic Slash and Reaping Strike by 20% Surging Charge / Shadow Technique does an additional 30% damage It is some what of a sustain dps buff/compensation for PVE at least for Deception even with the nerf on the set which was needed to avoid that maul spam going out in PVP. So can we maybe start to read more? It would be so nice if people actually did read things more before posting. Edited March 8, 2020 by dready_tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Do people even read the notes or just casually find some stuff they like to cluelessly whine about without proper understanding? Hatred / Serenity Languishing Lashes / Atrophying Attacks now increases the damage of Leeching Strike / Serenity Strike by 20% against enemies with less than 30% health Severing Slash / Cleaving Cut now spreads Discharge / Force Breach and Creeping Terror / Sever Force periodic effects. Fulguration / Rebounding Force now correctly applies to the Two Time Trouble tactical Deception / Infiltration Crackling Blasts / Deep Impact critical damage bonus increased from 5% to 20% Dominating Slashes / Prevailing Strikes now increases the damage of Voltaic Slash and Reaping Strike by 20% Surging Charge / Shadow Technique does an additional 30% damage It is some what of a sustain dps buff/compensation for PVE at least for Deception even with the nerf on the set which was needed to avoid that maul spam going out in PVP. So can we maybe start to read more? It would be so nice if people actually did read things more before posting. We will just underperform in pvp now, The closest class to us in terms of dps are sents. Edited March 9, 2020 by allexj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 We will just underperform in pvp now, The cloest class to his in terms of dps are sents. No you won't. Sins will still have double cloak, they still have off guard, they still can swap to life warden during the round. And their burst will still be good, they just won't be able to triple maul spam someone for 70% of their hp anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 No you won't. Sins will still have double cloak, they still have off guard, they still can swap to life warden during the round. And their burst will still be good, they just won't be able to triple maul spam someone for 70% of their hp anymore. I guess we will find out how well the tanks do after this. It was the one set that enables our survival due to the dps burst that could be controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMrSlappy Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 It is some what of a sustain dps buff/compensation for PVE at least for Deception even with the nerf on the set which was needed to avoid that maul spam going out in PVP. So can we maybe start to read more? It would be so nice if people actually did read things more before posting. And how about the all the Darkness / Kinetic Combat players who are using Death Knell because our tank set bonuses and tacticals are all hot garbage? They can't even come up with a decent tank set so we've adapted to take the DPS set. Where exactly is OUR buff/compensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakuryuukou Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Yeah, seriously, could we not? I remember back when Phase Jump was an assassin exclusive, now you've taken it away from us and gave it exclusively to sorcs, could we not get the short end of the stick for once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyne- Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 And how about the all the Darkness / Kinetic Combat players who are using Death Knell because our tank set bonuses and tacticals are all hot garbage? They can't even come up with a decent tank set so we've adapted to take the DPS set. Where exactly is OUR buff/compensation? Wouldn't creating a decent tank set that can be utilized in PVE be the solution? A thread to highlight things that are missing from sin tanks in PVE could be helpful and should be made. Asking the devs to hold off on a much needed nerf that ruins ranked PVP for the sake of PVE tanking is a bit misguided. Bringing a class back down to earth does not remove all viability from it being played. It's a bit disingenuous to even allude to that being the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Wouldn't creating a decent tank set that can be utilized in PVE be the solution? A thread to highlight things that are missing from sin tanks in PVE could be helpful and should be made. Asking the devs to hold off on a much needed nerf that ruins ranked PVP for the sake of PVE tanking is a bit misguided. Bringing a class back down to earth does not remove all viability from it being played. It's a bit disingenuous to even allude to that being the case. Precisely. This is the exact argument I made to pve op healers complaining about the tactician set nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMrSlappy Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Wouldn't creating a decent tank set that can be utilized in PVE be the solution? A thread to highlight things that are missing from sin tanks in PVE could be helpful and should be made. Asking the devs to hold off on a much needed nerf that ruins ranked PVP for the sake of PVE tanking is a bit misguided. Tell that to the Devs, they still have yet to make a decent sin tank set after all this time. Sins just keep getting weaker and weaker every patch. They completely removed DR from Force Speed when a simple and reasonable nerf would have sufficed. They've nerfed all the decent tacticals and sets from 6.0 PTS into irrelevancy despite all the feedback that was given. Now they want take a huge chunk of our damage away by nerfing Death Knell to oblivion. And they completely removed Assassinate's ability to autocrit as an added middle finger, because why not? The new Ballast Point set is only marginally better than the god awful Efficient Termination set, but it is nowhere near good enough to justify gating it behind Dxun NiM since that makes it essentially unobtainable for the majority of the playerbase. At this point sin tank gear needs a massive overhaul and it's on the Devs to deliver instead of expecting the community to spoon-feed them ideas. Edited March 9, 2020 by BadMrSlappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Tell that to the Devs, they still have yet to make a decent sin tank set after all this time. Sins just keep getting weaker and weaker every patch. They completely removed DR from Force Speed when a simple and reasonable nerf would have sufficed. They've nerfed all the decent tacticals and sets from 6.0 PTS into irrelevancy despite all the feedback that was given. Now they want take a huge chunk of our damage away by nerfing Death Knell to oblivion. And they completely removed Assassinate's ability to autocrit as an added middle finger, because why not? The new Ballast Point set is only marginally better than the god awful Efficient Termination set, but it is nowhere near good enough to justify gating it behind Dxun NiM since that makes it essentially unobtainable for the majority of the playerbase. At this point sin tank gear needs a massive overhaul and it's on the Devs to deliver instead of expecting the community to spoon-feed them ideas. It doesnt help that the ppl that the devs listen to actually wanted the Force speed DR gone, the efficient termination spike DR nerfed from 20 to 10%, the ancient tome of wrath changed from DR to shield and absorb. The whole phasing phantasm utility was changed to force regen on their say so. Ballast point is a meme set at best and doesnt bring anything new. If I wanted immunity to physics ill use shroud/spec into Dark stability or better yet bring a pt with hydraylics and the EP set. 3% DR is nice, but id rather have a decent cooldown for spike damage instead. Would I go to the trouble of farming Dxun NiM for this? NO So yes Death Knell even with the change would still be the option for a sin tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMrSlappy Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) I suspect that those people giving "helpful feedback" in 6.0 PTS did it as an act of sabotage and probably barely play sins themselves lol. Because I really can't fathom geniuine sin players actually advocating for their set bonuses and tactical options to be repeatedly nerfed again and again. Like can you imagine a sin main unironically saying '20% DR for 6 seconds tied to a skill that isn't even a part of our main rotation is way too excessive, please nerf it to 10%" or "I don't want DR, give me shield absorb instead" or "Ya know what sin tanks are really in desperate need of? Force regen"? At the very least the DPS boost from Death Knell helped us to hold threat. But they couldn't let us have this one thing either. At least sin dps got some compensatory buffs but sin tanks get got literally nothing lmao. Edited March 9, 2020 by BadMrSlappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/579224637032890369/641152811937300481/unknown.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/214721803732516866/641146977035485204/unknown.png Sin main and Darkness guide writer... Source Theorycrafter Discord, Tank Discussion, 6.0 PTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMrSlappy Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Woah, that's literally what we ended up getting word for word. Like they were so influential that all their terrible suggestions got implemented straight into the live servers. Guess that goes to show that writing class guides and being utterly out of touch aren't binary concepts. Edited March 9, 2020 by BadMrSlappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dready_tv Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I've Sin tanked several nims including the majority of the bosses in gods nim after stack removal & honestly the 10% DR on the efficient termination if used properly is more than enough, the set is nothing spectacular compared to certain sets out there for other classes but nor is it something broken, just enough to do its job. Personally I don't even miss that overpowered FS anymore, when you learn how to properly rotate ur DCDs you have in your arsenal to counter each of the boss mechanics etc, it can take some getting used to, especially since you have had the luxery to have something broken like old Force Speed DR to handle most of the heavy hitting abilities for free for a longer time but once you do then you will be more than fine & will understand that you don't need more DR or a silly FS. Also not understanding how broken that 60% DR on Forcespeed actually was then you are just someone who enjoys broken classes as long as it is YOUR class being overpowered but the second YOUR class gets nerfed/balanced out people go on a massive babyrage. If you are using Death Knell as a set over the other sets when tanking then the things you are tanking doesn't require gear to clear anyway. All hail the pepega stacks. The Force Regen on FS instead tho is quite useless & should probably have been something else & they could also have made some more interesting tacticals for sin tanks but it is not really required or needed. Sin tanks do not need any compensation they are fine where they are right now for all current PVE content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMrSlappy Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Also not understanding how broken that 60% DR on Forcespeed actually was then you are just someone who enjoys broken classes as long as it is YOUR class being overpowered but the second YOUR class gets nerfed/balanced out people go on a massive babyrage. Not sure why you're accusing me of saying things I've never said. I don't recall ever saying that the old Force Speed DR was fine and balanced. I do think it should have been nerfed to something reasonable like 20%, instead of being removed completely. Nice strawman argument though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllisonLightning Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Woah, that's literally what we ended up getting word for word. Like they were so influential that all their terrible suggestions got implemented straight into the live servers. Guess that goes to show that writing class guides and being utterly out of touch aren't binary concepts. The person who wrote that guide was the tank people got to bring their groups through for their Izax NiM kill and are exceptional at tanking. It's okay disagree with the point but they brought up a cheese which hadn't been propping up the class but had made them overpowered. They thought FS was overpowered and pointed out an issue with f/management they'd noticed. It's really nice this expansion to heal a combination of tanks and it was a major issue last expansion. Also, it was a DCD tied to a utility I've heard sin tanks who miss FS as a defensive admit it's nice to not need to save force speed and actually use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 We will just underperform in pvp now, The closest class to us in terms of dps are sents. So, if I get this correctly, sin performance in PvP is contingent on one extra critic maul (considering that ~50% every 2 hits 1 will critc, even if not guaranteed). Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 The person who wrote that guide was the tank people got to bring their groups through for their Izax NiM kill and are exceptional at tanking. It's okay disagree with the point but they brought up a cheese which hadn't been propping up the class but had made them overpowered. They thought FS was overpowered and pointed out an issue with f/management they'd noticed. It's really nice this expansion to heal a combination of tanks and it was a major issue last expansion. Also, it was a DCD tied to a utility I've heard sin tanks who miss FS as a defensive admit it's nice to not need to save force speed and actually use it. Youre missing the point here. Let me spell it out: We cant have nice things... There isnt one assassin setbonus or tactical that is decent; Its literally choosing best of the worst. The 2 real sin tank tacticals ward of continuum/ancient tome are best suited for disintegration, you take a general tactical two cloaks instead. The setbonus you choose death knell for more offdps or efficient termination for the spike DR, but its nothing to be excited about. The new setbonus is a meme that is not worth farming Dxun NiM for. And thats ok apparently, because sin tanks dont need it: learn to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Wouldn't creating a decent tank set that can be utilized in PVE be the solution? A thread to highlight things that are missing from sin tanks in PVE could be helpful and should be made. Asking the devs to hold off on a much needed nerf that ruins ranked PVP for the sake of PVE tanking is a bit misguided. Bringing a class back down to earth does not remove all viability from it being played. It's a bit disingenuous to even allude to that being the case. I mean it needed for PvP tanking too, because tanking sets just dont work in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 So, if I get this correctly, sin performance in PvP is contingent on one extra critic maul (considering that ~50% every 2 hits 1 will critc, even if not guaranteed). Cool. I am specifically speaking about sin tanking in pvp at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogueiraA Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Do people even read the notes or just casually find some stuff they like to cluelessly whine about without proper understanding? Hatred / Serenity Languishing Lashes / Atrophying Attacks now increases the damage of Leeching Strike / Serenity Strike by 20% against enemies with less than 30% health Severing Slash / Cleaving Cut now spreads Discharge / Force Breach and Creeping Terror / Sever Force periodic effects. Fulguration / Rebounding Force now correctly applies to the Two Time Trouble tactical Deception / Infiltration Crackling Blasts / Deep Impact critical damage bonus increased from 5% to 20% Dominating Slashes / Prevailing Strikes now increases the damage of Voltaic Slash and Reaping Strike by 20% Surging Charge / Shadow Technique does an additional 30% damage It is some what of a sustain dps buff/compensation for PVE at least for Deception even with the nerf on the set which was needed to avoid that maul spam going out in PVP. So can we maybe start to read more? It would be so nice if people actually did read things more before posting. That's a HUGE pve buff, holy **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Devs pls dont listen to OP!!! 3 70+k mauls is a troll, total ruining solo ranked. Thats too insane for a class which has 2 vanishes and decent sustain dps. In current state sins are taking everyones defenses in 2 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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