Gods from the Machine Mastermode/Nightmare Talkthrough-videos / Guides

[DragoshNashu]

First of all, congrats on the kills.

 

I just wanted to point out something regarding all this drama about top guilds not making guides, and withholding strats from the playerbase. This is totally untrue. Just because we only published kill videos and didn't make detailed guides doesn't mean we are trying to keep strats secret. It most likely means, we are real persons, with real lives, that most likely work for a living, have a social life etc. and don't have the time to commit to making guides. Kudos to you for making the time, I think it's very good. But stop accusing everyone else just because maybe they just don't have the time. As someone mentioned before here, I believe that if you are a capable player, you can understand all you need from a kill video.

 

Again, congrats on the kills and remember, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, so stop being so sour.

 

EDIT: I didn't read the whole thread, so if anyone already pointed this out... they're right )

Edited July 23, 2019 by DragoshNashu

[Zwirni]

First of all, congrats on the kills.

 

I just wanted to point out something regarding all this drama about top guilds not making guides, and withholding strats from the playerbase. This is totally untrue. Just because we only published kill videos and didn't make detailed guides doesn't mean we are trying to keep strats secret. It most likely means, we are real persons, with real lives, that most likely work for a living, have a social life etc. and don't have the time to commit to making guides. Kudos to you for making the time, I think it's very good. But stop accusing everyone else just because maybe they just don't have the time. As someone mentioned before here, I believe that if you are a capable player, you can understand all you need from a kill video.

 

Again, congrats on the kills and remember, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, so stop being so sour.

 

EDIT: I didn't read the whole thread, so if anyone already pointed this out... they're right )

 

Reasonable arguments. I find it hard to believe though that not one out of 120 people had enough time to release guides or even simple talkthrough videos in 6-8 months. The more obvious and comprehensible reason is that "you" as in "everyone of these 120" just didn't care enough to do it or, like chip, don't think guides are a good thing.

It is an understandable statement although I strongly reject it myself.

[chipequssmlgpro]

Where did I say guides are bad thing? It's nice to see somebody tries to do them but all I said was that kill videos should be enough for capable team to figure out what's going on in the fight, is this some language barrier I'm smelling here?

 

Edit: if you're not a capable team you should not even enter Gods instance considering it's hardest content up to date

 

Edit2: don't get me wrong Zwirni, real props towards you for doing guides, really man, but it feels like you're trying to make it our responsibility, like we HAVE to do them because we are among few groups that cleared the instance quick, but it's not our responsibility at all, we don't even have to release kill videos, but we do because it helps other groups, it's a fraction compared to fully fledged guide, but still help

Edited July 23, 2019 by chipequssmlgpro

[DragoshNashu]

The more obvious and comprehensible reason is that "you" as in "everyone of these 120" just didn't care enough to do it or, like chip, don't think guides are a good thing.

It is an understandable statement although I strongly reject it myself.

 

You can reject it how much you want, doesn't make it less true. Not everyone has time to spend writing guides. And tbh, everything is fine. The guides aren't written by the top guilds usually, it's just that this tier was either harder than past, or just raiding community is very low in numbers so it took 8 months for the people that usually write guides to actually kill the boss to write said guide.

From everything I see here, you can only blame yourself, for not doing it sooner, since you obviously had the time.

 

EDIT: Some other things were brought to my attention, so I want to clarify. I think it's very good you made the guide, for everyone. Don't let trolls get to you, usually they comment on **** they do themselves. Pot calling kettle black kind of thing. Good job for writing the guide and don't feed the trolls!

Edited July 23, 2019 by DragoshNashu

[Zwirni]

Where did I say guides are bad thing? It's nice to see somebody tries to do them but all I said was that kill videos should be enough for capable team to figure out what's going on in the fight, is this some language barrier I'm smelling here?

 

Edit: if you're not a capable team you should not even enter Gods instance considering it's hardest content up to date

 

I feel like figuring the fight on your own is much more rewarding and fills you with sort of pride

 

Your last edit is pretty much the attitude I despise and want to change in the SW:ToR playerbase.

 

You can reject it how much you want, doesn't make it less true. Not everyone has time to spend writing guides.

 

Again, I am not talking about everyone. I said it is hard to believe that not 1 out of 120 people didn't have the time. Time is not the limiting factor here.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Zwirni

[auroroavalor]

Any good will I would've had towards the publisher of a gods guide has been completely eroded by everything you've mentioned in this thread other than the links to you lazily narrating your kill videos.

 

If you have an issue with the raiding community in swtor, try do something about it. Taking veiled shots at members or groups and then denying it isn't going to change anything.

 

Maybe if Dulfy was still around she might've approached someone to make a guide for her site. Maybe if my guild wasn't actively involved in the progress of almost every NA guild working on Gods by either being in their raids, chatting with them in discord, backseat gaming from twitch, or just taking the time to respond to their DM's the need would've been more apparent.

 

Who benefits from a Gods NiM guide right now? Would a guide have reduced the time it took for your guild to clear? I doubt it.

 

But hey, what do I know? I'm just another toxic member of the swtor raiding community who's never done anything to help anyone clear any boss in this game right.

[neweses]

You read something into my post that is not there. I gave you facts. What conclusions you draw from that is up to you. I came to the conclusion that I don't care about comparing <Berserk> to other guilds. How you got to believing that I think <Berserk> is superior to everyone else is beyond me.

I criticized people who flamed us for taking "that long" on the GftM bosses when they took over 2 months to kill a single boss after kill-videos were released themselves.

 

I guess you are referring to Braindead's/Better Now's Nahut Kill.

 

While i agree that looking back at it we took way to long and kind of denied ourselves of any kind of relevant kills for Scyva and Izax, you have to consider that there are other relevant factors just than us ''being bad'' influencing the delayed kill.

 

Having said that, I think most people engaging in this thread are well intentioned in sharing their thoughts, you just don't seem to really understand each others points.

[OlagDebe]

You shouldn’t compare things going on at TH to other servers. TH is very small and the pool of ppl raiding nim is even smaller. There is a reason why only a few guilds are left raiding gods nim. As well as certain players aren’t representative for TH.

 

What I’m surprised of is that you’re claiming others not being social. Without making a complete list most of the guilds and raiding teams you joined split up. In general it almost seems of good taste at TH to poach ppl from other groups, let the groups split up so that left ppl stop playing and afterwards complaining about a small raiding community -gg.

 

Your original post doesn’t contain the time you needed to rekill all the bosses. Ppl should know that when they’re starting to prog gods nim from zero. You’ll need more than 40 hours. Besides you didn’t mention that members of two other nim teams were willing to get a lockout with you guys for Izax so that you could go on faster.

 

I totally disagree with your opinion that top guilds are not sharing their experience and knowledge. Whenever I had questions players from top 3 guilds were willing to spent time to answer them, explaining things to me and even watching my stream to tell me what can be improved. Yes, you have to ask. Shouldn’t be a problem to read names in killvideos and message anyone – worked fine. Judging about a community just bc parts of TH are becoming worse and worse, feels wrong to me.

 

Btw in case you didn’t know: There is a guide for sin/shadow tanks for gods nim (muito obrigada).

 

Regarding the point with the guides I guess it’s mostly missing time, motivation, all the different tactics you can play and all the small things you have to know for each class/role plus - most important -: nobody is bound to write them.

 

Nandoory

 

P.S Congrats to Berserk for your Izax kill!

[Zwirni]

What I’m surprised of is that you’re claiming others not being social.

 

Never claimed that.

 

I totally disagree with your opinion that top guilds are not sharing their experience and knowledge. Whenever I had questions players from top 3 guilds were willing to spent time to answer them, explaining things to me and even watching my stream to tell me what can be improved. Yes, you have to ask. Shouldn’t be a problem to read names in killvideos and message anyone – worked fine. Judging about a community just bc parts of TH are becoming worse and worse, feels wrong to me.

 

4.: We blame the nightmare community for not being helpful and simply put, toxic.

 

First off I want to say that we don't know every single nightmare raider or every single nightmare raiding guild. But if you want prove that some parts of the nightmare raiding community are very toxic, just look at our twitch chat during progression. We were getting flamed for wiping, because "there are multiple kill videos out already, why don't you just kill the boss with that information". Just Nahigo's reaction to the talkthrough videos today shows a lot about the nightmare raiding community. After our first A&E kill our marauder was getting flamed for doing low dps, without even congratulating us for killing a more or less hard nightmare boss. It's just flame and unnecessary toxicity. There certainly are some helpful nightmare raiders, but in my experience, there are little left.

I don't think it is fair to say that no one in the nightmare community is helpful and friendly, but there certainly are reasons for Zwirni's claims.

EDIT: I just want to underline that Zwirni used the word publicly. Yes, everyone is helpful if they get asked, but new players just don't know any nightmare raiders and for those players a public talkthrough video is very, very helpful. And if you don't want to know the fight before even entering the instance, you are able to just not watch the video, because we are humans and can make our own decisions.

 

Can't answer it better than that.

BTW: The toxicity didn't only come from a certain german guild that is known for having only toxic players but also from all the guilds you define as helpful and friendly.

 

Btw in case you didn’t know: There is a guide for sin/shadow tanks for gods nim (muito obrigada).

 

True I didn't know that. Haven't found it publicly released in the forums though.

 

Your original post doesn’t contain the time you needed to rekill all the bosses. Ppl should know that when they’re starting to prog gods nim from zero. You’ll need more than 40 hours. Besides you didn’t mention that members of two other nim teams were willing to get a lockout with you guys for Izax so that you could go on faster.

Totally valid point. Another totally valid point is that the other 2 guilds also benefited from that. It was not just for us, you got more Izax-trytime out of that as well.

I clearly stated though that the 41 hours we needed were progress hours, so excluding rekills etc. If you can only progress for 3h a week because it takes you a certain amount of time to reclear then the 41 hours still are accurate.

 

Regarding the point with the guides I guess it’s mostly missing time, motivation, all the different tactics you can play and all the small things you have to know for each class/role plus - most important -: nobody is bound to write them.

 

Again, totally valid point. I never claimed that anyone is bound to write them. It worries me that noone does it out of their free will.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Zwirni

[OlagDebe]

True I didn't know that. Haven't found it publicly released in the forums though.

https://www.twitch.tv/jaydenz

 

Totally valid point. Another totally valid point is that the other 2 guilds also benefited from that. It was not just for us, you got more Izax-trytime out of that as well.

 

True but they were getting the lock together for weeks without you.

 

BTW: The toxicity didn't only come from a certain german guild that is known for having only toxic players but also from all the guilds you define as helpful and friendly.

The screenshots you posted showed a chat with only one single person

[neweses]

BTW: The toxicity didn't only come from a certain german guild that is known for having only toxic players but also from all the guilds you define as helpful

 

Pretty close-minded to assume everyone in one guild is toxic just because some individuals who happen to be in that guild are, don't you think?

[Blackveldt]

It worries me that noone does it out of their free will.

 

Because in the scheme of things, spending hours upon hours after a long day of work/family, writing a video game boss guide for free should take priority. What is the world coming to??? (Oh the humanity!)

[MissBengtsson]

Hello,

so first of all I want to just say congratulations and thank you for making the effort to write a guide. Well done!

 

So second I just wanna give a quick background to who I am and what I cleared in this game.

 

I have been playing since 4.0 with a lot of different breaks. I been/am in guilds like Banthas, DoB, Honour, Lightning Masters and many more. Since 2017/2018 I had cleared everything except for gods nim on 8 and 16 m.

I wanna start off with saying that I would not have had all my cleares, my titels, wings, timed runs, nor would I have been where I am without the help of the NiM community, especially people from guilds like Farming Components/Mangos & Friends and Co. I’m mainly on Darth Malgus but I was on TOFN before and pretty much everyone there are helpful, especially when you ask for it, for a new player just go to twitch and ask. Most streamers and players ingame try to help. So I truly don’t get what you mean with “nim community being all toxic and unhelpful”, maybe its your server?

 

On a third note, we have previously been spoiled with alot of guides. But its not something to take for granted, its often done, as someone previously mentioned, not by the “top” tier players. They often just enjoy the game by actually playing it, often busy raiding almost everyday for plenty of hours and still maintaining a normal life. So accusing people not to first go through the long progression with a team, record it, write it, correct it, publish it, I think it is sad that you have come to that conclusion. I mean to write a whole guide it takes a serious amount of effort, it also requires a certain skill (writing, video editing and insight). Good on you for doing it! But don’t make your post negative, it sorta contradics the purpose of this post which should have been focusing on the fact that you guys cleared a very hard instance, and that you finally made a guide for us mortals to learn from.

 

So I want to round up this long post with saying, we rely on the “top” guilds alot. By them helping many teams out, sharing their ingame knowledge which allows the “average” nim raider to develop. I do sorta get the part of people being “toxicity” but it also depends on what is considered toxic. Imo alot of people nowadays gets offended when someone calls you out for a mistake you repeatedly do, is that necessarily bad, imo no, you call yourself a nim raider, so fix your mistake and don’t repeat it? But when you stream, when you write guides then - haters gonna hate, so learn to deal with it, like the rest of us do, but don’t drag the nim community as a whole in being unhelpful and toxic. But in the end if you cannot take criticism or someone call out the mistakes you do, or the fact that you need another try in downing the boss, then sorry buddy you chose the wrong platform. There isn’t gonna be a cheering crowd congratulating you every time you kill a boss, so I don’t understand why you would put yourself out there if you can’t stand what you call toxic.

 

Anyhow, I was thrilled the first few sentences when I saw there was a guide finally written, but truth be said, I was very disappointed when instead of keeping it positive and highlighting the fact you publish something helpful that can help others to clear gods, you choose to focus on the bad and the negative. I believe many react towards the way the post is written, what it focus on, not the fact that you guys cleared it, with majority of the people being without the previous clear experience, this is all very good by your team, maybe a ”thanks to team x, y, z for posting videos, for clearing gods instance, for helping out with players, for helping with questions etc, etc” then the tone of this thread might be slightly less aggressive.

 

Oh well this is like a mini book. However gratz on the kill and best of luck in 6.0 and all the changes that will come, exited to see if you have more guides in the future!

 

Best regards

MissBengtsson

http://twitch.tv/missbengtsson

 

Ps: sorry for my poor writing skills, this is why I don’t write guides

Edited July 25, 2019 by MissBengtsson

[Zwirni]

The screenshots you posted showed a chat with only one single person

 

http://prntscr.com/ojsdla

 

There are many examples. Unfortunately there are no logs for twitch chat. But if you are really interested just watch any kill on twitch.tv/raydusk and look at the chat.

 

Because in the scheme of things, spending hours upon hours after a long day of work/family, writing a video game boss guide for free should take priority. What is the world coming to??? (Oh the humanity!)

Please... stop using time as an excuse. Everyone has more than enough time to invest 5 hours in 6 months into the guides if they really wanted to. Time has nothing to do with the non-existence of guides. It is the cheapest excuse there is.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Zwirni

[chipequssmlgpro]

http://prntscr.com/ojsdla

 

There are many examples. Unfortunately there are no logs for twitch chat. But if you are really interested just watch any kill on twitch.tv/raydusk and look at the chat.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/aduswtor/clip/ObliqueNastyPangolinDerp

 

Pot calling the kettle black, my friend

I think you should first look at yourself than point out other people who actually genuinly tried to help.

 

I think you're actually delusional if you consider my sentence "healers too bad?" to be toxic, especially if they can't handle 3 droids, because accorsing to what Ray said on one of his streams, you guys needed to

Edited July 25, 2019 by chipequssmlgpro

[Zwirni]

But when you stream, when you write guides then - haters gonna hate, so learn to deal with it, like the rest of us do, but don’t drag the nim community as a whole in being unhelpful and toxic. But in the end if you cannot take criticism or someone call out the mistakes you do, or the fact that you need another try in downing the boss, then sorry buddy you chose the wrong platform. There isn’t gonna be a cheering crowd congratulating you every time you kill a boss, so I don’t understand why you would put yourself out there if you can’t stand what you call toxic.

 

4.: We blame the nightmare community for not being helpful and simply put, toxic.

 

First off I want to say that we don't know every single nightmare raider or every single nightmare raiding guild. But if you want prove that some parts of the nightmare raiding community are very toxic, just look at our twitch chat during progression. We were getting flamed for wiping, because "there are multiple kill videos out already, why don't you just kill the boss with that information". Just Nahigo's reaction to the talkthrough videos today shows a lot about the nightmare raiding community. After our first A&E kill our marauder was getting flamed for doing low dps, without even congratulating us for killing a more or less hard nightmare boss. It's just flame and unnecessary toxicity. There certainly are some helpful nightmare raiders, but in my experience, there are little left.

I don't think it is fair to say that no one in the nightmare community is helpful and friendly, but there certainly are reasons for Zwirni's claims.

EDIT: I just want to underline that Zwirni used the word publicly. Yes, everyone is helpful if they get asked, but new players just don't know any nightmare raiders and for those players a public talkthrough video is very, very helpful. And if you don't want to know the fight before even entering the instance, you are able to just not watch the video, because we are humans and can make our own decisions.

 

On a more personal note. I couldn't care less if people disagree with me or flame me. I have done stuff like this for over a decade now and I am well aware of the basic principles you talk about. I just point out one of the reasons why this game is so small.

If you have interesting guides or sources people can go to without the need of interacting with people who cleared the instance then people get intrigued to try the operation themselves.

You can disagree with that point all you want but a new player who sees someone with Wings of the Architect and "Eternal Warrior" title on the fleet will aspire to achieve the same.

The problem in SW:ToR is that if you put that into youtube "swtor eternal warrior" you will get the 10 best Sith armor sets instead of anything helpful because there are so few guides for raiding.

Most people don't get that the "community" is bigger than the people they know. 99% of the players would benefit from guides.

 

But your stoic behaviour towards toxicity seems weird to me. In every other game people get banned for that and you are done with it. That's the only thing I pointed out in my last paragraph. If people can't deal with that fact so be it. Not calling people out on their destructive behaviour will change nothing. So in the hope of change the only thing you can do is pointing stuff out.

So all in all I can stand it very well or I wouldn't do it. But if you want to change something you can't just hide under your rock, plus I am way too old and rich to take any of these young keyboard warriors seriously.

 

Good luck on your progression!

 

https://www.twitch.tv/aduswtor/clip/ObliqueNastyPangolinDerp

 

The cauldron was calling the pot, my friend

I think you should first look at yourself than point out other people who actually genuinly tried to help.

 

I think you're actually delusional if you consider my sentence "healers too bad?" to be toxic, especially if they can't handle 3 droids, because accorsing to what Ray said on one of his streams, you guys needed to

 

You noticed everyone laughing right?

As I said unfortunately there are no twitch logs but you should remember that you were on more than one occassion very toxic. If not kudos to your brain.

For example your constant memeing about us going in "blind" that we never claimed but you repeated every second

Edited July 25, 2019 by Zwirni

[chipequssmlgpro]

It's ok, we were also laughing and trolling just like you guys were, no tox

[Zwirni]

It's ok, we were also laughing and trolling just like you guys were, no tox

 

Kudos to your brain

[SineOris]

Do you even realise though that the guilds you blame are the only reason you were able to make your own videos, so maybe instead of blaming all the guilds for not releasing guides you should be grateful that they at least released their kill videos, because otherwise your team would still be somewhere around Nahut and this thread would most likely never happen

[MissBengtsson]

On a more personal note. I couldn't care less if people disagree with me or flame me. I have done stuff like this for over a decade now and I am well aware of the basic principles you talk about. I just point out one of the reasons why this game is so small.

If you have interesting guides or sources people can go to without the need of interacting with people who cleared the instance then people get intrigued to try the operation themselves.

You can disagree with that point all you want but a new player who sees someone with Wings of the Architect and "Eternal Warrior" title on the fleet will aspire to achieve the same.

The problem in SW:ToR is that if you put that into youtube "swtor eternal warrior" you will get the 10 best Sith armor sets instead of anything helpful because there are so few guides for raiding.

Most people don't get that the "community" is bigger than the people they know. 99% of the players would benefit from guides.

 

But your stoic behaviour towards toxicity seems weird to me. In every other game people get banned for that and you are done with it. That's the only thing I pointed out in my last paragraph. If people can't deal with that fact so be it. Not calling people out on their destructive behaviour will change nothing. So in the hope of change the only thing you can do is pointing stuff out.

So all in all I can stand it very well or I wouldn't do it. But if you want to change something you can't just hide under your rock, plus I am way too old and rich to take any of these young keyboard warriors seriously.

 

Good luck on your progression!

 

 

Hi Zwerni, thanks for reading through my long post. However please enlighten me, I feel like you misunderstood the point I was trying to make, for example I did commend you for taking the time to write a guide, like 3 times?, where did I say that it is a bad thing? Maybe its the language barrier, maybe it would be easier for you if I write this in german?

 

I find it quite hilarious that you claim to not care about our/my opinion when 50% is about ranting about the “negative” in the community, but who am I to speak, just a millennial speaking right?

 

Also on a personal note. I wouldn’t been playing this game if there wasn’t a helpful and overall nice nim community (not saying every encounter is pleasant as expected), I mean, if we were left alone with no help, no pugs groups forming, then yes, game would be extremely boring and we wouldn’t have “300/400?” nim raiders. But you cannot compare swtor to games like WoW. Just take a look at twitch. It has 80-400 viewers and wow has like 6k? They release new content every month. While BW in the past prioritized other content. So no, I don’t think people are leaving because there hasn’t been a guide? The fact that for the past 2 years the same ops has been done over and over again is the reason people leave. I mean would you really want to eat the same dinner every day?

 

Also, can you honestly say that you never talked bad about others skills. Have you never been elitist and said no to help out a guildy or friend on “easy” content like sm/hm or even nim because you know they will be stuck on a certain “easy” boss. I mean I speak as well for myself. So please take a look at yourself before shooting out accusations, thanks. The quote you just made isn’t your original post either. I was responding to yours not GamingCrimes.

 

Oh well instead of pointing it out what you think is bad. Present a solution other than say this and this is bad. For example it would be awesome if Bioware made it possible merge the server or to go into ops at least together. So the little nim raiders we have then could raid together without having to transfer now and then.

 

Regards

MissB

twitch.tv/missbengtsson

[Zwirni]

where did I say that it is a bad thing?

 

What makes you believe that I said that? My answer was directed at the paragraph I quoted.

Translating your post into german would get you the exact same answer.

 

I find it quite hilarious that you claim to not care about our/my opinion when 50% is about ranting about the “negative” in the community, but who am I to speak, just a millennial speaking right?

 

Again, directed at your paragraph about "knowing what you get into when going public", that's why I quoted it.

Maybe you got confused because I didn't answer most of your other points since they were already answered multiple times in this thread.

 

“nim community being all toxic and unhelpful”, maybe its your server?

 

This for example was never stated by me and therefor I normally don't answer it, especially if you put it in quotation marks. What I did say was that most people are helpful to other people they deem worthy of their time, but rarely publicly by releasing guides.

 

So no, I don’t think people are leaving because there hasn’t been a guide? The fact that for the past 2 years the same ops has been done over and over again is the reason people leave. I mean would you really want to eat the same dinner every day?

 

That's why I said "one of the reasons". There are many things in SW:ToR that led to the loss of many players but I certainly believe that the lack of interest in giving people something to aspire to is one of them.

 

Also, can you honestly say that you never talked bad about others skills. Have you never been elitist and said no to help out a guildy or friend on “easy” content like sm/hm or even nim because you know they will be stuck on a certain “easy” boss. I mean I speak as well for myself. So please take a look at yourself before shooting out accusations, thanks.

 

Of course not. But that has nothing to do with not creating guides. Please refrain from using Whataboutism in the future if you want an honest discussion.

 

Oh well instead of pointing it out what you think is bad. Present a solution other than say this and this is bad. For example it would be awesome if Bioware made it possible merge the server or to go into ops at least together. So the little nim raiders we have then could raid together without having to transfer now and then.

 

There are many things Bioware could do. For starters remove toxic players from the playerbase by banning them like every big MMO does it, then actually everyone has a more pleasant experience in SW:ToR.

Merging the servers is something I would not look forward to but sooner or later EA will decide that the amount of severs right now is not worth the investment.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Zwirni

[ragiista]

I don't know if this has been said already, but don't want to read the whole forum.

 

 

First of all, Gratz on the kill < Beserk >

I think it will really help the Guilds who want to progress Gods NIM. I'm sure this is already said. GODS Nim is difficult for 90% of the raiders in SWTOR. So u guys accomplished something nice.

 

Second of all, I don’t know what all the fuzz is about with the NIM community toxic and not helpful.

It might be true that people can be toxic and ‘labeled as Clowns’, but that doesn’t make the community directly toxic. So It’s inappropriate to say in my opinion that the community smells. You offend a lot of people with that including yourself since YOU are a part of this as well.

Before your post, no one knew who < Beserk > was.

---------------------------------------------

Hey there,

Lastly, I want to talk about the current state of the game and the player base.

It is always sad to see that most people who play small games like SW:ToR feel threatened by the success of others instead of being supportive and willing to help.

In total contrast to other games where guides are released even during PTS because everyone knows that guides don't diminish their chance of succeeding but rather keep the game alive and encourage other players to try the operation themselves. Instead, you get constant hate from people and a lot of them even told us that it is not a big deal what we accomplished because everything is known, even by guilds who took over 2 months to kill Nahut after <Farming Components> released their kill video. In comparison, again, it took us 14h30min.

Are we now better than them? The answer is: who cares?

The sad truth is that these people feel so threatened by us that they see no other way than to insult us because it is impossible for them to take a step back and reflect on their own behavior.

 

You are saying a lot in this quote Zwirni. Pointing at a lot of people here.

My question to you is. Have you ever been on another server then the German one? My conclusion of this post would be: No.

when I started raiding and cleared all HM content, I wanted to get into Nim raiding. Because of Mango’s and a few other Nim raid groups, it was possible for me. Now I pug 1-3 Nim raids together on a day for people who want to raid. I do this because I want to stimulate the Nim community on Darth Malgus. People can learn new roles in Raids and get more experience. This wouldn’t be possible if the top Raid teams didn’t help me to raid nim and learn me the fights. People From < Farming Components > & < Mango’s > help me out every day to let the raid going on and succeed. The ones you call toxic.

on top of that, I created also a discord for people to learn HM on. Nim raiders help people there too, who want to do harder content then just sm. Guess what? beside chip being bit toxic in my opinion I haven't heard any complaints about nim raiders being toxic to the new players. Later I reviewed this and apologized to chip because it wasn't toxic. Does that make him toxic because it was in that moment? No.

things are seen very often as toxic meanwhile it isn't. I made this mistake too.

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These players in the top raid teams killed it before you. Without ANY Guide to help them and they cleared it quite fast after release.

As far as I’m concerned, you got help. you chose to see a guide before you went in or get help from other people. These people haven’t got help form anyone except their own team. Isn’t that part of the game too? To figure out what to do on stuff?

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Instead, you get constant hate from people and a lot of them even told us that it is not a big deal what we accomplished because everything is known, even by guilds who took over 2 months to kill Nahut after <Farming Components> released their kill video. In comparison, again, it took us 14h30min.

Are we now better than them? The answer is: who cares?

Indeed. Who cares. If no one cares, why even taking the effort to mention this? People help each other in raids. Not with only guides. Every fight can be different and people help people by telling them what they could do differently in that situation.

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I just want to point out what you said. ‘Toxic Community’ and ‘It is always sad to see that most people who play small games like SW:ToR feel threatened by the success of others instead of being supportive and willing to help’.

What my conclusion is: if you have never raided Nim on a server except ur own, that is your bad. We can't do anything about the fact that people don’t help each other and are being toxic on your server, as far as you have seen. Of course, there are a lot of nice people too probably, don’t get me wrong.

But if you actually look to other servers you see that they work together. Maybe you should learn from that and work more together.

Does everyone has a Toxic and troll moment? Yes. of course. Does that make you a toxic person directly so you can label the community as toxic?

 

All that said, I hope you guys will succeed with achieving timed. Also good luck in 6.0 with the new operations!

 

- Ragiista

Edited July 25, 2019 by baoshengg

[Blackveldt]

http://prntscr.com/ojsdla

 

There are many examples. Unfortunately there are no logs for twitch chat. But if you are really interested just watch any kill on twitch.tv/raydusk and look at the chat.

 

Please... stop using time as an excuse. Everyone has more than enough time to invest 5 hours in 6 months into the guides if they really wanted to. Time has nothing to do with the non-existence of guides. It is the cheapest excuse there is.

 

Time *should* be seen as very valuable, especially if you have a busy work/family life. You're expecting people who have no interest in writing, perhaps no writing/editing skills at all, who have ALSO cleared this content AND are confident enough in their gaming skills and knowledge to spend time doing this. Not to mention, maybe some people don't want to write something and risk criticism or trolling (like you, who is whining about it *gasp*). We're all here to have fun. This should be the point! And you're there on your high horse belittling people for doing something that they don't desire because it's what YOU want? This is the craziest **** I've come across in SWTOR in a long while (I say SWTOR because this **** is vanilla compared to the majority of other gaming communities). Maybe you don't realize that dulfy got paid to run her site and she paid teams to write guides.

 

I think what's most hilarious is that I LIKED your post at first. I thought--DAMN! Someone used their own free time to create talk-through videos and even a timeline. I understood that it takes a high level of enjoyment, dedication and time and I would have never downplayed that (like you do above). Because rightfully so, that kind of effort should absolutely be lauded and appreciated.

 

But then you ruined it by having such a horribly negative and accusatory attitude. This became a post--not to help the NiM community--but to ***** about it and catapult yourself (I would hate for anyone to associate your team with you here) to the forefront. You might as well have just posted, "Look at me, I'm amaaaaaazing! P.S. you all suck lol"

 

You mentioned you want people to post things public as well. Well, let's think about how that is defined and what it entails. Every guide I've come across is public. Anyone can access it. Now, I can create a forum post that links to my guide, but I would be afraid it would disappear eventually and it's honestly not the best resource for NiM raiders. So at most, it's a means to get the word out that my guide exists. So I have this guide. OF COURSE I want to get it to as many people as possible! Nobody in their right mind spends the time and effort writing something if nobody is going to see it. So I try to spread the word, I post it in the best place that is going to be seen by the most people--Discord. Maybe I create a reddit thread about it to get more people to see it. I send it to different guilds and friends. But--and here's the kicker--*without an owned domain or website* that people know about and flock to (like Dulfy), that's the most I can do right now. So, tell me, when your thread disappears, how are you going to ensure that your talk-through videos are accessible and publicized for the foreseeable future? The only reason I knew about this thread was because I transferred a toon from SF to Tulak to raid with a German team. Otherwise, I would never have known about you to be frank. Never had access. Dulfy consolidated guides and videos and was a place that both casual and hardcore players knew about and flocked to. The funny thing is--the way guides are spread and shared right now--is exactly how your videos will be shared and spread.

 

I feel I've written too much already and it's been posted about several times, but honestly the NiM community here is one of the most helpful communities of which I've been a part. At this point, stop defending your terrible post. We'll have more respect for you if you just admit that it was coming from a place of anger and hurt and that no, people don't owe you ****.

 

P.S. Congrats on the kill! And please, remember to have fun.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Blackveldt

[Exocor]

I read some of the posts in this thread, including the initial one. Honestly, if you guys are all thinking that Zwirni is talking about you when he mentions 'toxicity' in his post, he might've hit some true points.

 

Regarding Zwirnis suggestion that groups that cleared bosses early on had to offer help in form of tutorials, I have to admit that I am very low on free time since GftM NiM was released and barely had time to lead my group at all. Writing or recording guides in addition to that was not possible for me. Nevertheless, we of course helped everyone who asked us for help.

 

In certain parts, I agree with Zwirni on the increasing toxicity in the raiding community. However, if you are streaming your raids publicly with such self-proclaimed high standards it's largely your own fault for attracting those sorts of viewers and comments. I'd suggest to just play your game with the people you like and stop giving a s*** about what other people say.

 

 

Regarding certain groups "claiming" certain strategies as their own, I honestly have to disagree. There is just a limited number of ways to execute certain mechanics. And, I can just speak for me, the strategy we are playing is always "our strategy". It is not in any way diminishing the work other groups are putting into it, it is just an expression about what we found working best for us. For example: For Nahut, we are using taunts by the tank who is having the boss to provoke the red energy wave before the other tank taunts, so that our DPS don't have to play this mechanic. It was a rather unique strategy on Tulak Hord for quite some time, however, I recently learned that the strategy is also in use by several groups on Darth Malgus. I don't know - and i honestly don't care who first invented it. For us, it's the strategy we are using, so tt's "our strategy".

 

So, all in all, I agree in certain points Zwirni made and I disagree in others. Either way, you all have to calm down a little bit. Congratulations on all your GftM-achievements. It's, after all, just the work you were willing to put in - and noone should be blamed for not having as much time for swtor as others do. It's, after all, a game.

[bogbogbog]

Do you even realise though that the guilds you blame are the only reason you were able to make your own videos, so maybe instead of blaming all the guilds for not releasing guides you should be grateful that they at least released their kill videos, because otherwise your team would still be somewhere around Nahut and this thread would most likely never happen

Agree. This is a meme. A guy that killed boss 9 months after release using multiple kill videos and strategies blaming ppl for not releasing guide. Next time no kill video for you

Stop bumping this thread (i didnt)

Edited July 25, 2019 by bogbogbog