Romance Review

[Estelindis]

I think the scene on Hoth with the imperial scientist, where you have the option to use a Mind Crush on the scientist, should have been written as a defining choice for starting the Iresso romance. Given what he's been through, watching a Jedi torture someone's brain with the Force should be kind of traumatic and something Iresso brings up later if you start flirting with him.

Believe it or not, I don't even remember that as an option. My consular doesn't give much consideration to DS choices, so I guess I don't either when I'm playing her.

 

One the one hand, the flirting starts significantly before we track down Sera Fray and uncover the truth of the holocron. Until then, Felix knows little of what happened; it's mainly missing time. On the other hand, he very quickly tells the JC the little he knows about his captivity, whereupon the JC can offer to help recover his memories. He then says some Jedi already tried, but the few memories they helped him retrieve he'd rather forget again (implying something unpleasant). So possibly, even at first, he knows enough that the Mind Crush incident would impede the romance. The truth is, I can absolutely still see him being attracted to a DS consular (certainly compelled or fascinated), but love is a much harder leap. He's a good person, but he's certainly tempted at times to give in to darker impulses, and I think he appreciates it when the JC helps him get past those moments and keep to a higher standard. In those times, she gives him a kind of support he needs to be his best self (the very thing he gives her, which I think healthy love is based upon).

 

I strongly suspect that if the Eternal Empire story hadn't been massively truncated, and every LI at the very least got their rightful return chapter where they receive special story focus, we could've seen a very dark ending to Felix's story. It probably would've happened in an expanded / modified verion of the KotET Nathema chapter, given that this already has two strong links to Iresso: Jarak, and uniquely interesting holocrons. I suspect such a story would've given a DS choice to recruit Jarak and sacrifice Iresso, or an LS choice to save Iresso and imprison Jarak. Even some DS consulars who had affection for Iresso probably would've been swayed by the DS option, if it was written compellingly enough. That's really the worst ending for his story I can imagine: going through years of hell, having the hope-spot of a romanced consular show up to "rescue him," and then have that hope turn to ashes as she decides something else is more important than his life. Now there's an "evil woman."

 

There's a version of Iresso that might admire you for thinking more about the safety of the republic than the individuals you screw over along the way, but he shouldn't be attracted to you.

Pretty much - or, if he is attracted, it's something he's able to rein in because the ruthless aspects of her personality disturb him.

 

I think there's something here that dovetails nicely with your argument, Estelindis, about sacrifice vs needing something for oneself [a DS character might not need Nadia or Iresso because DS cons aren't sacrificing themselves, they're sacrificing other people] but it needs more.

Sacrificing oneself vs. others, that's the key. Brilliant, it's so clear when you put it like that.

 

Some of the most relaxed, confident characters one can play in this game are DS. They have room to be confident because they're never going to run out of other people to sacrifice. If something goes wrong, there's another path to take, and more people who can be made to pay. But for a LS character who believes people are means, not ends, there's only one person they're allowed to sacrifice, and that's themselves.

 

What I find tangentially interesting about that is that a side-effect can be the most selfish characters, the DS ones, end up laughing at danger ("I am the danger") and being fairly cavalier with their own safety in a manner that might seem superficially heroic. Correspondingly, selfless LS characters might end up taking a lot of care with their own safety because they only have one life to spend so they need to make it count. And even that well-intentioned cautiousness might grow to the sort of fear that could lead to the dark side.

 

Lots of food for thought, thank you!

[Hudlar]

I strongly suspect that if the Eternal Empire story hadn't been massively truncated, and every LI at the very least got their rightful return chapter where they receive special story focus, we could've seen a very dark ending to Felix's story. It probably would've happened in an expanded / modified verion of the KotET Nathema chapter, given that this already has two strong links to Iresso: Jarak, and uniquely interesting holocrons. I suspect such a story would've given a DS choice to recruit Jarak and sacrifice Iresso, or an LS choice to save Iresso and imprison Jarak. Even some DS consulars who had affection for Iresso probably would've been swayed by the DS option, if it was written compellingly enough. That's really the worst ending for his story I can imagine: going through years of hell, having the hope-spot of a romanced consular show up to "rescue him," and then have that hope turn to ashes as she decides something else is more important than his life. Now there's an "evil woman."

 

As a fellow fan of the Iresso romance, I just want to say that I'm really enjoying this conversation. I would have loved to see full-chapter returns for more of the companions, and I agree that the Nathema chapter would have worked well for Iresso. I would definitely never have seen the DS version, though!

[Ardrossan]

Believe it or not, I don't even remember that as an option. My consular doesn't give much consideration to DS choices, so I guess I don't either when I'm playing her.

 

They don't call it a mind crush, but the animations are the same. You can start off by bluffing the scientist, which Iresso half-heartedly goes along with. The scientist will take the bluff, but I guess a DS consular believes in follow-through, and it looks like needles of light are stabbing him in the head.

 

The truth is, I can absolutely still see him being attracted to a DS consular (certainly compelled or fascinated), but love is a much harder leap. He's a good person, but he's certainly tempted at times to give in to darker impulses, and I think he appreciates it when the JC helps him get past those moments and keep to a higher standard. In those times, she gives him a kind of support he needs to be his best self (the very thing he gives her, which I think healthy love is based upon).

 

People say it's a boring romance. True or not, I don't find it coincidental that it's one of the only romances in this game with generally equal power dynamics, where neither partner has to lose their agency [Risha's romance requires her to essentially give up her bid at becoming Queen], and there's no creepy moments [ie. Nadia or Vette]

 

Speaking of compelled, there's no conclusive use of this in the game, but I tend to wonder if the SI isn't using some kind of mind trick to force Ashara to fall in love with him. Perhaps it's a DS option that got cut, and they left the corresponding dialogue in, but it would explain why players are so confused that Ashara thinks they're going to reform the empire even though the SI never says anything like this.

 

I strongly suspect that if the Eternal Empire story hadn't been massively truncated, and every LI at the very least got their rightful return chapter where they receive special story focus, we could've seen a very dark ending to Felix's story. It probably would've happened in an expanded / modified verion of the KotET Nathema chapter, given that this already has two strong links to Iresso: Jarak, and uniquely interesting holocrons. I suspect such a story would've given a DS choice to recruit Jarak and sacrifice Iresso, or an LS choice to save Iresso and imprison Jarak. Even some DS consulars who had affection for Iresso probably would've been swayed by the DS option, if it was written compellingly enough. That's really the worst ending for his story I can imagine: going through years of hell, having the hope-spot of a romanced consular show up to "rescue him," and then have that hope turn to ashes as she decides something else is more important than his life. Now there's an "evil woman."

 

That would be great, though idk that I'd want to play through three or more expansions of Eternal just to get there.

 

Sacrificing oneself vs. others, that's the key. Brilliant, it's so clear when you put it like that.

 

Some of the most relaxed, confident characters one can play in this game are DS. They have room to be confident because they're never going to run out of other people to sacrifice. If something goes wrong, there's another path to take, and more people who can be made to pay. But for a LS character who believes people are means, not ends, there's only one person they're allowed to sacrifice, and that's themselves.

 

Exactly, yes. LS and DS in this game isn't really explained in detail, and becomes particularly stretched when applied to NFUs. This definition is how I usually handle alignment questions. To that extent, pub characters actually have the best range of DS options, particularly the smuggler, who can callously sacrifice lots on named NPCs on the road to building an empire.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Ardrossan

[Estelindis]

As a fellow fan of the Iresso romance, I just want to say that I'm really enjoying this conversation. I would have loved to see full-chapter returns for more of the companions, and I agree that the Nathema chapter would have worked well for Iresso. I would definitely never have seen the DS version, though!

Glad you're enjoying the discussion. And yes, I can absolutely think up this stuff, but I could never play it. While my RP bias is strongly LS (my first playthrough of each class was LS), I do have a few very nasty DS characters (my sniper and juggernaut) who I've made as dark as the game allows. Theron, Koth, Vette, and Jaesa have suffered quite badly at those characters' hands. Yet I'd still have zero interest in playing a consular who would let something so despicable happen to Felix. I can't fully articulate why, not when my other DS characters have crossed so many lines, but this would be one line too far for me.

 

Maybe it's for the same reason that (I hear) BW stepped back from some of the DS story developments they originally planned, such as it being possible for Vette to totally break from her abuse if her collar is never taken off. Maybe some BW writers realized: yes, many Sith are cruel, and such atrocities absolutely would happen in the Empire, but we as a company are not obliged to put every dark thing that could happen into our games.

 

I don't find it coincidental that it's one of the only romances in this game with generally equal power dynamics, where neither partner has to lose their agency [Risha's romance requires her to essentially give up her bid at becoming Queen], and there's no creepy moments [ie. Nadia or Vette]

Agreed. All the padawan/apprentice romances have a degree of power imbalance, though I think it's extremely slight in Kira's case; she feels very close to the PC's equal. Vette starts as a slave, Temple is under the agent's command (though I think most of her creepiness is for a different reason), and a good portion of Quinn's romance can come across as sexual harrassment by the warrior. I enjoy Doc's flirtiness, but to plenty of others it's disrespectful and uncomfortable. Corso's gender double-standards imprison him and the smuggler in different ways, both unfair to each of them. Many more examples of inequality and problematic dynamics come to mind easily; I doubt I need to list them. But I feel like there are some perhaps surprising examples of equal relationships. I am still only roughly two thirds through the Mako romance, so I may be missing some problems that come up, but so far - in spite of her youth - to me she feels very much like a partner to my merc. And Kaliyo, of all people, feels like an equal to my sniper (I appreciate that she could seem very different depending on one's RP approach).

 

In Felix's case, he's not ordered to be the consular's subordinate but requests the posting. Working with her is a chance to do something meaningful and make some progress rather than constantly being shuffled around by a command system that doesn't know what to do with him. He doesn't flirt with the consular immediately, and when he does he's concerned to be respectful. Moreover, he seems to only need to be told "no" once (not that I could ever make myself choose this option). He wants to help and protect her, not because he thinks she's not strong enough to manage things on her own but because he cares for her wellbeing, happiness, and sanity. He never infantilizes her, and I don't remember any conversation options where she infantilizes him (though, in fairness, I clearly have very little sense of what a DS consular playthrough looks like). To me, he really comes across as an equal partner, which can't be an easy thing to write between a low-to-mid-rank soldier and a powerful jedi.

 

Speaking of compelled, there's no conclusive use of this in the game, but I tend to wonder if the SI isn't using some kind of mind trick to force Ashara to fall in love with him. Perhaps it's a DS option that got cut, and they left the corresponding dialogue in, but it would explain why players are so confused that Ashara thinks they're going to reform the empire even though the SI never says anything like this.

I haven't played the Ashara romance yet, but I do have a male DS torgruta sorceror in the works for her, and that is exactly how I intend to RP it. I don't see how it can make much sense otherwise.

 

That would be great, though idk that I'd want to play through three or more expansions of Eternal just to get there.

Exactly. I have very little interest in playing a DS consular, and going through all that nastiness just for the awful "reward" of betraying Felix doesn't remotely appeal.

 

LS and DS in this game isn't really explained in detail, and becomes particularly stretched when applied to NFUs. This definition is how I usually handle alignment questions. To that extent, pub characters actually have the best range of DS options, particularly the smuggler, who can callously sacrifice lots on named NPCs on the road to building an empire.

This actually ties in very powerfully with the "Sacrifice" trailer for KotFE, doesn't it? Valkorion's message is that willingness to sacrifice is everything, but I don't imagine he's ever considering self-sacrifice. As Vitiate, he's happy to sacrifice the entire galaxy. As the Immortal Emperor, he'll do anything even to his own family if it furthers his goals.

[Karameck]

Sorry for the very late response, I had a crazy weekend!

I enjoyed reading all your write-ups of the various classes with Theron! Before reading them, though, I guessed at what we might agree and disagree on. Seems our main point of agreement is that the BH brings the fewest interesting elements to Theron's romance. Just doesn't seem to be anything special that stands out. Theron's dedication to the Republic seems very distant either from the mandos who've scourged the Republic several times or a factionless adventurer who just wants to fight and get paid. There's an amount he has in common with all the Republic characters, the Sith have the dangerous/exciting aura of traditional enemy, and of course the agent is his opposite number. I feel like the hunter is almost unique in not meshing especially well with Theron. (None of which is to downplay anyone's authentic experience if they love the Theron/BH relationship.)

Yup, completely agree. By default all Pub characters have that common ground with Theron, so when you’re playing Imp really it needs some extra “umph” to make the romance play well, or at least, as well as the other options.

 

For my taste, JK and IA are the best matches for Theron.

 

As we've said earlier, there's so much shared history between Theron and the Jedi Order. Of the two Jedi classes, to me the knight comes across as more passionate, more active, more tangibly involved in the kind of field work that's Theron's bread and butter. I've always found the knight's voice-acting earnest, sometimes to the point of desperation, compared to the consular's default of calm control. As we know, while Theron is methodical, he's also kind of a hothead who'll dive into action if he thinks it's needed, then save himself when he gets into trouble. I think that's a perfect match for the JK.

I love that you describe the JK as earnest, because that’s the exact same read I get. Female Knight (in my head canon) is a character who has abilities that vastly exceed her own understanding or maturity. Due to her ability to effortlessly accomplish many tasks that would thwart others, she keeps getting pushed into situations other Jedi would have had years more training to prepare for. She would want to adhere to the code, but ironically, the very skills that let her succeed as a Jedi left her ill-prepared to stay true to the code.

 

The JK reads as a completely sincere, eager, young woman. I’m not sure how young the writers intended specifically, but as it’s mentioned several times that you are exceptionally young for your position/skills I’m assuming very early 20s at best. Doc has 5 years on Theron (28, and 23 at the start of Vanilla respectively) kinda adding to the “creep factor”.

 

That set up makes it hard for me to buy into the Doc romance. I can definitely see the Knight falling for him, she’s young, and likely highly emotional (and did I mention likely immature?). She would have all the compassion for others, but lack the training to constrain it. Despite his many “un-jedi-like” qualities Doc ultimately is a good person who does a lot of good for others. The issue is really that I just don’t really dig the whole “older guy makes young rising star his next conquest, but accidently falls for her, for real along the way” story. Theron is a much better match for Knight as for as LIs go.

 

As you said they have personalities that would complement each other, and Theron is one of the few people who have a believable reason to not go hero-worshippy on the JK. Theron is highly skilled, comes from famous/infamous roots, and his quite a career of his own. While I’ll grant that last point is actually one that does hold up for Doc as well (he is exceptional in his own right) all around Theron makes a better match.

 

As to the point about Consular Vs Knight I agree again. You can view the consular as either the epitome of the emotional control Jedi strive for, or as someone desperately attempting to project that control, but either way it’s much more unlikely they’d let the veil of “properness” slip, at least knowingly. The Consular would be unlikely to engage in the casual flirting and openness that leads to full-blown romance with Theron. In contrast Iresso gains her trust in ways that are not explicitly flirtatious or romantic, the dynamic for him (as you’ve pointed out very eloquently in your previous posts) is that of the supportive soldier, he got close to the Consular by subtle acts of protection and concern for her well-being.

 

The agent brings out Theron's other side: the careful spy who knows his trade, who plays a dangerous game precariously balanced on the edge. And, as you say, who could know what it's like to be a spy, except another spy? I'd love to be able to say that I think the SIS-loyal agent is the absolute best match for Theron, but (at least until the end of Nathema) my SIS-loyal agent never got to say a word to him about secretly working for the same people as him. I can head-canon that he knows (either that he was told before ever meeting her, or she told him at some stage in the story off-camera), and indeed I do have a very firm personal idea about this, but I don't think head-canon should come into the present discussion. We're talking about the various classes in general, not anyone's specific character. So: with the SIS-loyal agent, if we just judge from the cutscenes, they play their cards very close to their chest and become romantically involved with Theron while keeping something crucial locked away from him the entire time. That's quite a lonely place to be. In terms of what the game allows in its cutscenes, it actually seems like the agent who keeps working for the Empire, or acts as an independent operator, can be more authentic and honest with Theron.

I actually forgot that you could be SIS loyal, that is a whole other dynamic that would be very interesting to explore. I wish the game would have let you delve into this more. The idea that ultimately an Imp loyal is the most honest is also fascinating.

While we both agree the Agent is a compelling romance, I think it would likely be a more… distant one? I think the Agent and Theron could both fall for each other, hard, but I wonder to what extent either could fully let down their guard? I often think of Hunter and how by the end of the story it’s revealed they didn’t really even know themselves anymore. I don’t think Theron is at that point yet, but certainly your Agent could be considering all they’ve been through, particularly the conditioning.

 

My head canon for my agent’s romance ultimately was that of a broken person learning to be happy in their own way.

 

I imagine them playing loose as part of their job, casually making and breaking relationships as beneficial. By the time they meet Vector playing nice is all part of the game, while Vector was falling hard the Agent was mostly ambivalent, but she did care for him in a less serious sense. After the revelation of her conditioning she has a mental break-down and takes immense relief in Vector. This is the first time she feels genuine love for him, but there is still part of her that can’t fully open up. There’s nothing wrong with him, in fact he’s practically perfect, but she knows deep down he’ll never fully understand her, his sincerity is simultaneously endearing and frustrating. She sees in Vector and innocence she wishes she had, Vector isn’t stupid or Naïve to the world, but he has a way of seeing it that assumes some default good that the Agent can’t bring themselves to believe in.

 

Then the agent meets Theron, the casual flirting and sly lines were all just part of the game, and she thought nothing of it, but eventually she found herself revealing truths she never meant to share, and him doing the same. For the first ever she felt not just attracted but understood. She feels a spark of passion with Theron that she never truly felt with Vector, she knows she likely never will, but she decides to not pursue the relationship after Yavin 4. She instead chooses to return to Vector, picking the predictability and trust he offers. Theron may have been more her match in many ways, but due to her cynicism (although she would likely view it as pragmatism) she believes Theron and her would have never truly worked out. She knows what being a spy means, and she would never really trust him. More than anything in a world where everyone has a knife behind their back she needs someone she can truly count on, and that’s Vector for her.

[Goreshaga]

I love that you describe the JK as earnest, because that’s the exact same read I get. Female Knight (in my head canon) is a character who has abilities that vastly exceed her own understanding or maturity. Due to her ability to effortlessly accomplish many tasks that would thwart others, she keeps getting pushed into situations other Jedi would have had years more training to prepare for. She would want to adhere to the code, but ironically, the very skills that let her succeed as a Jedi left her ill-prepared to stay true to the code.

 

The JK reads as a completely sincere, eager, young woman. I’m not sure how young the writers intended specifically, but as it’s mentioned several times that you are exceptionally young for your position/skills I’m assuming very early 20s at best. Doc has 5 years on Theron (28, and 23 at the start of Vanilla respectively) kinda adding to the “creep factor”.

 

That set up makes it hard for me to buy into the Doc romance. I can definitely see the Knight falling for him, she’s young, and likely highly emotional (and did I mention likely immature?). She would have all the compassion for others, but lack the training to constrain it. Despite his many “un-jedi-like” qualities Doc ultimately is a good person who does a lot of good for others. The issue is really that I just don’t really dig the whole “older guy makes young rising star his next conquest, but accidently falls for her, for real along the way” story. Theron is a much better match for Knight as for as LIs go.

 

As you said they have personalities that would complement each other, and Theron is one of the few people who have a believable reason to not go hero-worshippy on the JK. Theron is highly skilled, comes from famous/infamous roots, and his quite a career of his own. While I’ll grant that last point is actually one that does hold up for Doc as well (he is exceptional in his own right) all around Theron makes a better match.

That's pretty much how I see my JK as well, i made her 19 at the start of her class story, which makes her my youngest main character.

It's always said from the begining that the JK is exceptionnally skilled for her age, especially for everything that has to do with fighting and lighsaber techniques.

At that time i think she trully believed in the Jedi teachings and really wanted to do her best, no matter how hard it would be for her, she's hard working and that's partially why she's so good at fighting.

 

So she's sent on the most dangerous missions, which is a burden of its own, then she failed against the Emperor's will, i think it's one of the thing that would weight the more on her on a psychological level, and that's also why i thinks it's really sad that we never get to know exactly what happened at that time (considering Valkorion latter states that he was never able to fully break and control her, i'd assume it was not very pleasant for her).

So she then became more focused on bringing him down but at that time i don't think there were many people who could trully understant what she was going through, except Scourge and to some extent Kira as well, but despite Doc's strong attraction to her, i don't think he could ever have been the kind of support she needed at that time, and she was not really fond of his flirting ways, things she saw as absolutely not sincere (for her him flirting with her was nothing more than a game to him, just to see if he could break her wall, so her game became rejecting him and it turned into a game to see who would stop first, hint that was not her).

 

Then she thought she managed to defeat Vitiate on DK, just to realise that he was not trully dead.

Then comes SoR, she meets Theron who is vastly different from Doc (and also closer to her in age and in many other ways). He's not too fond of the Jedi, but he was raised by them and can understand better than most what it trully means, he's not disrespectull to her, he's not someone who fan-boy over her, he doesn't really need to be protected. They try with him and Lana to stop Revan from awakening Vitiate but fail.

Then comes Ziost, they try to stop Vitiate but fail, again, resulting in the death of an entire planet. That's something that was really hard for her, and she trully feels responsible for that as she was the one who was supposed to stop him, but failed again and again.

 

Then comes the carbonite frozing, and whole Valkorion possession, and at every turn he was there for her, fighting by her side, conforting her when she needed, and in the end he's the only one who really saw her at her lowest, and with whom she can really, fully be herself, without having to be what everyone wants or need her to be.

And that's why i love this pairing so much

 

 

And so, that's why I also think that Theron is the best match for a JK, and that the JK is the best for Theron, but IA works quite well too, though i think IA is best with Vector.

I'm not sure a spy x spy would really work in the long run as they're both professional liars and i'm not sure they could fully trust each other in the end.

 

Ironically the JK has worked more closely with Sith (especially Scourge and Lana, but Marr as well to some extent) than with fellow Jedi.

There's also the fact that during all her time as a Jedi, she came to realise that despite her efforts, nothing has trully changed, or not for the best.

That's why the Alliance means so much to her, it's proof that there is hope the Jedi and Sith, Imps and Pubs could work together if they were really trying, and that maybe one day her dream of peace could come true.

[Estelindis]

Sorry for the very late response, I had a crazy weekend!

I am glad to receive a reply whenever it happens.

 

It looks like we agree on a ton about the JK. Our reading of the character's personality is very similar: my JKs are definitely less mature than my JCs, but I love that about them.

 

I think the Theron romance does make more sense for the JK than Doc, it's just that I played my first JK years before Theron came along, and I can't make her give up on that relationship just to hook up with someone else (she might give it up for more heroic reasons). Theron and the JK are nicely balanced against each other by the weight of heroic expectations on them. As you say, there isn't much danger of hero worship in either direction. Seems like a very equal relationship.

 

While we both agree the Agent is a compelling romance, I think it would likely be a more… distant one? I think the Agent and Theron could both fall for each other, hard, but I wonder to what extent either could fully let down their guard? <snip> She feels a spark of passion with Theron that she never truly felt with Vector, she knows she likely never will, but she decides to not pursue the relationship after Yavin 4. She instead chooses to return to Vector, picking the predictability and trust he offers. Theron may have been more her match in many ways, but due to her cynicism (although she would likely view it as pragmatism) she believes Theron and her would have never truly worked out. She knows what being a spy means, and she would never really trust him. More than anything in a world where everyone has a knife behind their back she needs someone she can truly count on, and that’s Vector for her.

That's largely how I played my agent too: attracted to Theron, in many ways finding him more of a kindred spirit than Vector, yet Vector is someone she can absolutely trust in a way that she can't quite trust Theron, and she needs that one trustable person. In a crazy backstabby world, Vector is safety and comfort. All that being said, I've never been 100% clear on just how much of what Vector perceives and knows is shared with the Hive. I play my agent as being very careful with her secrets (especially necessary considering her SIS allegiance). I have often wondered at the potential security issues of being close to a Joiner.

 

Wait, I just had a brainstorm. It's not entirely on-topic, but while we're talking about Vector - and after I mentioned what I thought BW's original plans might've been for Iresso & Nathema - what if they originally would've written Malora as modifying killiks instead of geonosians? We already have a tasty plot hook of the killiks being pressed into Imperial service, wouldn't Malora doing that have worked so much better? Could've happened if Ossus originally would've been written within the Alliance story arc, or later (with Vector's return being delayed until then in that case). I swear I don't have some need to make my favorite LIs suffer more or anything, I'm just consumed by curiosity re. the original return plots before half the story got scrapped, and this really seems like it could've worked.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Estelindis

[Karameck]

And so, that's why I also think that Theron is the best match for a JK, and that the JK is the best for Theron, but IA works quite well too, though i think IA is best with Vector.

I'm not sure a spy x spy would really work in the long run as they're both professional liars and i'm not sure they could fully trust each other in the end.

 

Ironically the JK has worked more closely with Sith (especially Scourge and Lana, but Marr as well to some extent) than with fellow Jedi.

There's also the fact that during all her time as a Jedi, she came to realise that despite her efforts, nothing has trully changed, or not for the best.

That's why the Alliance means so much to her, it's proof that there is hope the Jedi and Sith, Imps and Pubs could work together if they were really trying, and that maybe one day her dream of peace could come true.

I think that all makes a lot of sense, it is easy to see how Theron and the Knight could fall for each other, and I definitely agree that their romance reads much more natural and “pure” than the Doc/JK romance does.

 

I’ll explain my rationale a little bit more for the Warrior romance, as it seems Knight is the run away favorite so far, so I’ll do my best to represent my position. Funnily enough the Knight and Warrior are (intentionally) mirrored in many ways, so it makes sense they would share many of the same strengths. I feel it’s the differences that give the Warrior a more compelling edge for my tastes.

 

I’ve already given the big picture outline in the previous Theron post, but here’s a little bit more insight into the way I experience Warrior x Theron (er... actually here's a lot now that I've look at it all typed up lol):

We start the story with a perfect parallel to the Knight. A young, highly skilled Sith who is rapidly outpacing those around them and the expectations given to them. As alluded to in game the Sith Warrior comes from a great Sith bloodline, so assuming you follow the given canon material heir upbringing would make them predisposed to accept certain tenants of Sith life without question (at least initially). You set off on your adventure convinced by your own success, and that of your family before you, that you have the whole world figured out.

 

When you first meet Quinn you’re sold on the Empire and the future it promises, you’re openly flirtatious (why wouldn’t you be? Quinn is physically attractive, and your goals mutually aligned, and after all a little passion only makes you stronger) and while Quinn initially seems put off by your “unprofessional behavior” he rapidly grows to respect, not just your raw skill, but the ways in which you differ from all the Sith he’s known before. He expected a wrecking ball he’d have to keep under control, but instead he is pleasantly surprised to find that there is a method to your madness.

 

The relationship is unequal in many respects, from both sides. You’re young and naïve, and frankly not looking for anything serious initially anyway, so you barrel ahead thinking only that it feels right in the moment. Quinn is more reserved, he understands the dangers involved from many facets, you’re professional relationship would be compromised, he knows Baras likely has ulterior motives for sending him, and he is not ignorant of the age difference. Yet there is chemistry there, despite whatever faults Quinn may have, he is a man of action, and he is effective at what he does. The warrior is drawn in by his boldness and intrigued that he resists despite sensing his true feelings for her (and outright having them confirmed on Tatooine). Despite his many reservations, Quinn can’t help himself from falling for the Warrior, and looking at all she’s managed to accomplish for the Empire it’s not hard to see why, he’s not surprised by his own feelings, he mostly just can’t bring himself to believe she returns them.

 

For a brief moment the Warrior is riding high, Baras betrayed them, but they had their doubts on him anyway, besides now they were THE Emperor’s Wrath. Then the incident happens. The writer left what exactly happens here up for interpretation, my personal take is self-sabotage. I think Quinn being in the Empire for so long has become cynical without realizing it. Some lingering self-doubt that he’s really considered an equal by the warrior (he’s seen how often and carelessly Sith throw away their lovers, it’s not uncommon in the Empire) and his misguided loyalty to Baras make him feel like his in a no-win situation. I imagine any non-force user would often feel like a rat caught up in the machinations of the Sith. Quinn’s own willingness to sacrifice for the greater good becomes twisted in his mind to the point he thinks sacrificing himself is the best solution. The warrior will go on to beat Baras, and all will be well in the end.

 

Quinn never anticipated the true depth of the Warrior’s feelings for him, and is mortified at the end result of the incident. Seeing the heartache he caused is more than he bargained for, and the cloud of guilt never fully leaves him. The betrayal ends up breaking the Warrior mentally, she not only can’t trust her closest companion, but by extension the Empire as a whole. Quinn represented the best the Empire had to offer, and if the epitome of what the empire should be was… this, then she wanted nothing to do with it. She was sick of the games, sick of the betrayal. What she had been forced to do by Baras’s orders, killing good, loyal servants, had started the doubt, but this cemented it.

 

The Warrior started off full of self-confidence, assured they knew best, now they are confronted with an existential crisis. Nothing they know makes sense anymore. They kill Baras, but it offers little satisfaction. Quinn has remained by her side, attempted to make amends, and she has forgiven him for the act after learning his ultimate plan was to sacrifice himself, but she can’t bring herself to resume the romantic relationship. Not that she doesn’t want to, she still feels for him, and she hates it.

 

Then SoR happens, and the Warrior welcomes the distraction. She meets Theron and at first is reluctant to trust a Republic Agent, but she is disarmed by his warm and genuine personality. She is surprised to find herself with such an unlikely ally, but he’s so different from the people she’d been surrounding herself with in all the right ways. She lets down her guard and ends up confiding her sordid past with him, including the betrayal.

 

Theron finds himself falling for her, more than he wants to admit to himself. Nothing about their relationship makes sense, but considering the current affairs that shouldn’t come as a surprise anymore. Before all of this he’d heard of her exploits as the Wrath through the course of his work, but now he struggles to reconcile the tales of a ruthless warrior with the vulnerable woman in front of him. She’s demonstrated she can handle herself, but when he hears about Quinn he feels protective. As they say their goodbyes on Yavin 4 he almost can’t believe the words coming out of his mouth, something about being enemies, not seeing her again. He knows it’s what he should say, but it feels wrong. She takes it well, almost too well… although he could swear he saw a sadness in her eyes. She makes a joke about how Quinn has probably missed her, and Theron’s cool persona almost cracks. He leaves quickly before he does something he’ll regret.

 

They’d barely even kissed, but something about the relationship keeps pulling them back in. Unable to shake the thought of her from his head Theron uses his contacts to keep tabs, not entirely sure what he’s hoping to find. The Warrior is oblivious to all of this, believing she left the relationship back on Yavin 4. She is hurt when he leaves, but expected nothing different. Quinn is around, and senses a change, but can’t place it. The Warrior hardly feels anything when she looks at him now, she realizes what they had, whatever it was, wasn’t right. Everything about the Empire was tainted, which made sense now that she’d learned more about it’s founder. She has no hope of seeing Theron again, but thinks of him often.

 

When fate brings Theron and the Warrior back together on Ziost she knows she can’t bear to just walk away again, but the issue never has a chance to resurface. After the events of Ziost they continue to work together to hunt him down. The relationship resumes, albeit at a slow burn. Theron was never good at relationships, and the Warrior is still nursing old wounds, but their attraction is undeniable.

 

After the time skip the Warrior is desperate to get back to him, but trusts Lana and the process. After finally reuniting on Odessen the warrior can barely contain herself, the feeling when she’s around him… it’s like being home. She’d never felt that way with anyone else. Think take their natural course, while the Warrior saves the galaxy their relationship only becomes stronger. Quinn happens to spot Theron and the Warrior embracing on Dromund Kaas, resulting in his realization the Warrior had moved on.

The Crisis on Umbara cuts the Warrior deeper than she thought possible. After all she’d been through, Theron was the one person she’d finally allowed herself to fully trust, and now this. She’s hurt, enraged, but mostly broken. She keeps fighting for the sake of the alliance, having always had a sense of obligation to a greater good, but her heart isn’t in it anymore. She attempts to channel her rage like she was taught as Sith to push herself forward. When suspicious clues start appearing indicating Theron might still be on their side, she latches on, trying to convince herself it's a sign. Lana doubts it and tries to dissuade her, but Lana's skepticism is unnecessary. No matter how much the Warrior wants to believe Theron is still on her side she is too jaded after a second betrayal by a lover to believe it's possible.

 

The reunion on Nathema is bittersweet. Both feel overjoyed to see each other, be near each other again, but the wound is still fresh and needs time to heal. The warrior understands, but she can’t keep herself from having flashbacks to her last relationship, her mind needs time to process everything. Theron knows how much he’s put her through, and even though he knows he made the best decision, the only one that kept her safe, he can’t forgive himself for putting her through the exact hell Quinn did.

 

While the events of Theron’s “betrayal” hurt, the Warrior is surprised by how quickly she finds herself forgiving him. At first she thought it was Quinn all over again, but she slowly realizes what she had with Theron was never that. Quinn betrayed her out of misguided loyalty to a man who wanted her dead, he may not have intended her to be harmed, but he acted on his own motivations. Theron acted only to protect her and the Galaxy. The feelings she and Quinn had for each other were strong and passionate, but they never shared the deep and real connection she shares with Theron. Upon realizing this she decides Theron is the only man she’ll ever truly love. When they return to Odessen they officially commit to each other.

Now I know that’s a lot to read, so for those who don't have the time/interest in the play by play, here's the best I can summarize it:

 

- The Jedi Knight pairs well with Theron because her fiery/emotional nature makes her likely to fall for him, and their shared goals make them a natural fit.

 

- The Warrior shares that same passionate nature, and in turn has no reason to hold back on it. While on the surface her and Theron may have opposing goals, the Warrior meets Theron at a time where her entire worldview is likely undergoing dramatic changes. Instead of just being a natural fit, Theron has the potential to serve as the turning point for the warrior, paving her path to "redemption" and a new appreciation for life away from the Empire.

 

- Perhaps the most compelling point for me is how much more... impactful the Traitor Arc feels.

If you play a character who's only ever gotten along with and trusted Theron the betrayal hurts, but you're given reasons to believe Theron is still on your side pretty quickly. For someone less paranoid than Lana it's easy to keep the faith in Theron, and minimize the true pain of the arc. My Jedi Knight would likely have blind faith in Theron, being hurt by what he's done, and maybe doubting initially, but at the first hint of him being on her side she'd be right there OK again, trusting in him and only anxious to get him home. A Warrior who's already been cut by a lover before, this whole scene is too familiar, and cuts much deeper.

 

I think it makes Theron's lines about "not forgiving himself" ring much more true. The first time I romanced him was with a class other than Warrior and I kept thinking "it's not that big a deal, obviously you did the right thing, I get it." Not that he shouldn't be sorry, but the whole "I'll never forgive myself" seemed melodramatic considering all the other things we'd been through by that point, and the fact that he'd left a pretty clear trail that he was still on our side.

 

For a Warrior who's been betrayed, that deep lingering regret is 100% believable and appropriate. "I know how much Quinn hurt you, I've helped you heal from those wounds, now I'm the one causing them." That's a powerful punch for the story to pack.

[Karameck]

I am glad to receive a reply whenever it happens.

 

It looks like we agree on a ton about the JK. Our reading of the character's personality is very similar: my JKs are definitely less mature than my JCs, but I love that about them.

 

I think the Theron romance does make more sense for the JK than Doc, it's just that I played my first JK years before Theron came along, and I can't make her give up on that relationship just to hook up with someone else (she might give it up for more heroic reasons). Theron and the JK are nicely balanced against each other by the weight of heroic expectations on them. As you say, there isn't much danger of hero worship in either direction. Seems like a very equal relationship.

I really hate breaking up with any companion (those scenes kill me) but I think I'll likely stick to Theron with my knight. I haven't played through Ossus yet with them, so I'm still trying to decide how she'll handle the reunion with Doc. I know I prefer Theron, but I like experiencing a variety of options, and I would hate to miss out on future content for Doc just to have multiple toons for Theron. I'm probably just going to see how I feel when seeing the reunion, if Doc really wows me he stays, otherwise it's Theron bby.

 

That's largely how I played my agent too: attracted to Theron, in many ways finding him more of a kindred spirit than Vector, yet Vector is someone she can absolutely trust in a way that she can't quite trust Theron, and she needs that one trustable person. In a crazy backstabby world, Vector is safety and comfort. All that being said, I've never been 100% clear on just how much of what Vector perceives and knows is shared with the Hive. I pay my agent as being very careful with her secrets (especially necessary considering her SIS allegiance). I have often wondered at the potential security issues of being close to a Joiner.

I've thought about that quite a few times myself, and I think the only real options are either A) After everything the Agent has been through they totally go off the grid from either government, not caring about their secrets (although you'd still have to be weary about exposing your location, but I imagine Vector would help in concealing that as needed) B) you keep a secret persona private even from Vector.

 

Option B sadly seems like the most common. The life of a spy sure is lonely.

 

Wait, I just had a brainstorm. It's not entirely on-topic, but while we're talking about Vector - and after I mentioned what I thought BW's original plans might've been for Iresso & Nathema - what if they originally would've written Malora as modifying killiks instead of geonosians? We already have a tasty plot hook of the killiks being pressed into Imperial service, wouldn't Malora doing that have worked so much better? Could've happened if Ossus originally would've been written within the Alliance story arc, or later (with Vector's return being delayed until then in that case). I swear I don't have some need to make my favorite LIs suffer more or anything, I'm just consumed by curiosity re. the original return plots before half the story got scrapped, and this really seems like it could've worked.

That would have been infinitetly better. I think a lot of companions got shafted on their reunion. Honestly ALL romance options should have been brought back through the main story w/full cut scenes. It's OK if they weren't KOTET/KOTFE (like Doc/Nadia is nice) but they should have been bigger than one off fetch quests.

 

It is sad to see the missed opportunities. I like the way you think though, I don't think it's twisted to imagine/want those scenarios either. Stories are meant to be tests of character imo. Looking closely and critically at different types of people and how they respond to stimulus, the harder the choices they have to make, the more compelling the stories and the more we can get from them (as long as they are within believable limits).

[Goreshaga]

I think that all makes a lot of sense, it is easy to see how Theron and the Knight could fall for each other, and I definitely agree that their romance reads much more natural and “pure” than the Doc/JK romance does.

 

I’ll explain my rationale a little bit more for the Warrior romance, as it seems Knight is the run away favorite so far, so I’ll do my best to represent my position. Funnily enough the Knight and Warrior are (intentionally) mirrored in many ways, so it makes sense they would share many of the same strengths. I feel it’s the differences that give the Warrior a more compelling edge for my tastes.

Not quoting everything because it was pretty long, but i've read it all though.

 

While i understand your take on the relationsship and that was quite an interesting reading, it's a bit hard for me to roll with it with the way i see my SW.

 

As a whole, i pretty much agree on the character and her relationship with Quinn and the way i see it end after the Quinncident.

I can see my SW forgiving him, but not wanting to pursue the relationship after that point and not trusting him again with her privacy. He was the person she trusted the most and what he did trully hurt her.

 

Though, i find it a bit hard to imagine that same woman being attracted to and even more so allowing herself to fall for a man who on several aspect could remind her of Quinn : they're both non Force-sensitive, yet very intelligent and skilled at their job, and Theron as a spy is a professional liar and from the opposite faction too, that would somehow be running after many problems, especially for a woman who ends up betrayed by literally everyone.

Then, the traitor arc, that would put a lot on her, and that would not even suprise me if that same woman would completely loose it and kill both Quinn and Theron in the end rather than forgiving Theron in an instant.

 

So in the end i think she'd go for a man, or even a woman (considering all the men she worked with so far betrayed her) who would be pretty much the exact opposite of Quinn, and who she could completely consider her equal on everything.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Goreshaga

[Karameck]

Not quoting everything because it was pretty long, but i've read it all though.

 

While i understand your take on the relationsship and that was quite an interesting reading, it's a bit hard for me to roll with it with the way i see my SW.

 

As a whole, i pretty much agree on the character and her relationship with Quinn and the way i see it end after the Quinncident.

I can see my SW forgiving him, but not wanting to pursue the relationship after that point and not trusting him again with her privacy. He was the person she trusted the most and what he did trully hurt her.

 

Though, i find it a bit hard to imagine that same woman being attracted to and even more so allowing herself to fall for a man who on several aspect could remind her of Quinn : they're both non Force-sensitive, yet very intelligent and skilled at their job, and Theron as a spy is a professional liar and from the opposite faction too, that would somehow be running after many problems, especially for a woman who ends up betrayed by literally everyone.

Certainly problematic, not sure the Warrior is capable of a completely ideal relationship at this point. You've got someone who has no idea what a real relationship looks like and basically just got out of the world's worst. Not to mention you've got a highly emotional young woman on the rebound.

 

As far as being similar though, I can' t say I feel the same. In fact the only thing I think Quinn and Theron have in common is being non-force users, and working a lot. Beyond that any similarities seem to be shared with everyone else just as much as each other.

 

Quinn is a by the book patriot, with a condescending, no-nonsense attitude. Not to mention likely somewhere north of 15 years your senior.

Theron plays fast and loose with the rules, cracks jokes even in the most serious situations and seems to have an open respect for just about everyone, and is likely within a couple years of your character's age.

 

Being a spy would be cause for reservation, but as a Sith warrior what would being a spy mean compared to everyone else you know? Not to mention throughout SoR proves himself to be trustworthy where even Lana backstabs Theron. It wouldn't be a trust from his position, you would be unlikely to trust anyone at that point, let alone on their title alone, it would be an earned trust through the sharp contrast he provides to your previous experiences and his actions throughout that arc.

 

Then, the traitor arc, that would put a lot on her, and that would not even suprise me if that same woman would completely loose it and kill both Quinn and Theron in the end rather than forgiving Theron in an instant.

 

So in the end i think she'd go for a man, or even a woman (considering all the men she worked with so far betrayed her) who would be pretty much the exact opposite of Quinn, and who she could completely consider her equal on everything.

How a particular character would react is obviously going to be dramatically different from one person to another, but my Warrior definitely wouldn't go psycho and kill people who didn't "deserve it".

 

She might have killed Theron on the Train given the chance, or Quinn after the incident given the chance, but it wouldn't make sense to kill Theron after it's revealed he was working to protect her the entire time, nor would it make sense for her to then go back and kill Quinn who was uninvolved in the entire affair.

 

The way I see it Theron is the opposite of Quinn, so I guess it's just a difference in perception honestly.

 

Not to mention the entire arc of her romance with Theron is growing and moving past her life as a Sith. She's grown from what she experienced, and she recognizes a lot of that growth was due to the genuine support she got from Theron, another foil to her relationship with Quinn which wasn't strong enough to withstand the blow.

[Goreshaga]

It all comes down to how we see our own characters and their relationships in the end.

I see your point and why you like that pairing but i don't share the same view.

I'm mainly basing my observations on what i saw, and felt while playing, especially with the French VA which may be slightly different than the English one, and it's very subjective.

As I tried to pair my JK with Arcann at first, I've tried to pair Theron with nearly every class except JC, trooper and BH.

 

JC for me is probably too Jedi, being pretty much everything a good Jedi is supposed to be in every aspect of her life (always calm, detached, always sacrificing everything for others, and apparently feeling nothing), so i don't think considering Theron's past with the Order he'd find it particularly attractive, while the JK is probably less of the perfect Jedi the JC is, which could help him see past the fact she's a Jedi.

 

Trooper is just too good with Aric, i just can't picture her with anyone else than him.

 

BH, i don't think would work that well with Theron, and she's nice with Torian anyways. She may work with Koth though, if she's not too DS.

 

I've already said it, JK is my personnal favourite with Theron, which is why i paired them together in the end while it was not my first intention.

Other than what i already said, of all the characters i tried to pair with Theron, she's the only one who truly sounded like she was genuinely in love with him (even when not romancing him, which was slightly disturbing).

I could see the JK working with Arcann or Lana too, but they would not be my favourite pairings with a JK.

 

Smuggler, well, i've tried and they sounded like they truly did not like each other. Theron looked like he had no respect for the work she was doing and she had good reasons not to trust a spy, especially if she fell for Darmas.

My personnal fav for a smuggler would be Koth actually, i think they work well together, as I feel like Corso is a bit too much of a puppy for the female smuggler.

 

IA works not that bad with Theron, but i never felt like she was giving everything to that relationship and when Vector came back, it really felt like she was with Theron mostly not to be alone and all she wanted was Vector.

Her reunion with Vector looked like a firework, while her whole relationship with Theron felt like a firecracker in comparison.

So that can work, but i like her with Vector better.

 

And finally the Sith, i don't think Theron really suit a Sith, none of them.

I've tried both SW and SI, and in both case, i felt like Theron was some kind of lost puppy they were keeping around waiting to find someone who would suit them better, and that none of them really loved him, he was just there to keep them warm at night and keep them company.

Dunno, i feel like he's somehow too soft for a Sith, but honnestly i find most romance options don't fit any of them.

Andronikos could work with a SI as he's clearly not afraid of her and she could find that attractive, but he would not really feel like her equals in the long run, but i'm not really fond of that pairing anyways, well i don't really like any of the vanilla romances for the SI, and that's why my Nox is still single to this day.

Cytharat was a nice match for a male SI though, too bad it was so short lived and not a full fledged romance. I'd really love to have someone like that for him.

The only ones for me that could work for them as real romances would be Lana or Arcann.

 

My personnal favourite with the SW is Arcann, they're both powerfull warriors who were used as tools / weapons by Vitiate / Valkorion, and even when they were ennemies, he never lied to her, or tried to manipulate her.

Well, they tried to kill each other, but that was mainly Valkorion's fault, and while i could see a case of hero-worshiping from Arcann towards the JK as she would probably save him out of compassion as it was proven during her class story that she's a firm believer in redemption, i think the SW who decides to spare him would probably do so for a much more pragmatic reason which is : he's strong and they both want to get rid of Valkorion, he can be usefull, and if not, she can still kill him.

He did awfull things, but so did she, so who is she to judge him while they were at war.

And after being redeemed he's never given any reason not to trust him. I think that's a relationship that would develop while they're fighting side by side and as time passes, she sees him first as a valuable ally, and then a potential partner that is vastly different from Quinn on every level, and who could truly be her equal, so everything Quinn ended up not being to her.

And well, my SW is a BT3, so except Arcann, every BT2 male quite look like shrimps compared to her

[Karameck]

It all comes down to how we see our own characters and their relationships in the end.

I see your point and why you like that pairing but i don't share the same view.

I'm mainly basing my observations on what i saw, and felt while playing, especially with the French VA which may be slightly different than the English one, and it's very subjective.

I have lots of toons (as I imagine most here do, lol) and I definitely have some Sith characters that would react as you described, so I just wanted to say I totally see where you’re coming from. My main toon actually stayed with Quinn as they were a loyal to the Empire.

 

It’s not that I think the Warrior x Theron is the most likely match up, rather I think it’s the most compelling. As I mentioned before I think this is a classic “star-crossed lovers” set up, so unlikely, but not impossible, and all the more interesting for the ways it defies a more traditional romance.

 

The romance stories have always been my favorite part of The Old Republic games, so often I’ll plan my characters around who I intend to romance with them. When looking at romancing Theron you obviously have a lot of options, since in theory anyone could end up with him. So, starting at the baseline of “all of these romances happen” I then work backwards and say if Theron ended up with [insert class] what would that look like?

 

So assuming there is a version of the Warrior who falls for Theron, what do they look like?

• To fall for Theron they would have to be open to the idea of being with someone in the Republic
  • The Warrior likely wouldn’t initially, given their background, but over the arc of their story the repeated betrayals set the perfect groundwork for a character who would be ready to put the Empire behind them, or at least open to an alternative

  [*]They would have to be able to respect non-force users as an “equal” or at least an equal in a relationship sense

  • Vanilla content already gave you the opportunity to define if this is true of your character or not. For my character who already fell for Quinn, this is a non-issue. As long as the other person is perceived as competent and skilled in their own right she could be drawn to them. I imagine someone as powerful as the Wrath would find most force below her combat ability already, so that wouldn’t be the determining factor for her attraction. Likely she would be more drawn to people who are intelligent and capable in non-combat ways as that would be the area they could truly impress her in.

  [*]They would have to be able to trust each other, eventually.

  • This is likely where we have the most divergence based on what I’ve seen so far. I think it’s fair to point out that most characters should be weary of both Theron and Lana initially, given their occupations of spy and sith respectively. So the question isn’t really should you trust him at the onset, but is it plausible that they could learn to trust each other? I think there are definitely scenarios where this would/could happen. I think one of the defining features of a stereotypical sith is the emotional instability. I can imagine several motivators for flirting with Theron initially:
    • Attempting to get back at Quinn
      
    • Attempting to rebound/district herself from the previous heartache (not a serious commitment)
      
    • As sith it wouldn’t be strange to be openly flirtatious in general

    [*]As a Spy Theron would likely respond in kind regardless just to keep his options open. Once you have the ground work for how the relationship starts for me it’s not hard to picture a gradual slip (likely unnoticed at the time it happens) from playful banter to genuine feelings. I think by they time they part at Yavin 4 neither would consider themselves in love, and neither would view the relationship seriously, although both would sense the connection and likely be surprised by the strength of it.

 

By the time you get to KOTFE/KOTET I think as long as the relationship had believable roots it’s easy to see the progression for any character at that point. You’re literally saving the galaxy together, that’s some quality bonding time. When Traitor Arc occurs all you’ve had a vastly different experience with Theron compared to Quinn, and time to prepare for it. Even though I imagine the Warrior wouldn’t let herself believe Theron was still on her side after the betrayal the time between it happening and her meeting him again would allow processing time, even the shadow of the doubt the subtle clues would provide would help soften the blow.

 

I think there is a real character in there with realistic motivations and enjoy the ways in which learning to trust again, and a republic agent no less, could really shape and change the course of her life.

 

As I tried to pair my JK with Arcann at first, I've tried to pair Theron with nearly every class except JC, trooper and BH.

 

JC for me is probably too Jedi, being pretty much everything a good Jedi is supposed to be in every aspect of her life (always calm, detached, always sacrificing everything for others, and apparently feeling nothing), so i don't think considering Theron's past with the Order he'd find it particularly attractive, while the JK is probably less of the perfect Jedi the JC is, which could help him see past the fact she's a Jedi.

 

Trooper is just too good with Aric, i just can't picture her with anyone else than him.

 

BH, i don't think would work that well with Theron, and she's nice with Torian anyways. She may work with Koth though, if she's not too DS.

 

I've already said it, JK is my personnal favourite with Theron, which is why i paired them together in the end while it was not my first intention.

Other than what i already said, of all the characters i tried to pair with Theron, she's the only one who truly sounded like she was genuinely in love with him (even when not romancing him, which was slightly disturbing).

I could see the JK working with Arcann or Lana too, but they would not be my favourite pairings with a JK.

 

Smuggler, well, i've tried and they sounded like they truly did not like each other. Theron looked like he had no respect for the work she was doing and she had good reasons not to trust a spy, especially if she fell for Darmas.

My personnal fav for a smuggler would be Koth actually, i think they work well together, as I feel like Corso is a bit too much of a puppy for the female smuggler.

 

IA works not that bad with Theron, but i never felt like she was giving everything to that relationship and when Vector came back, it really felt like she was with Theron mostly not to be alone and all she wanted was Vector.

Her reunion with Vector looked like a firework, while her whole relationship with Theron felt like a firecracker in comparison.

So that can work, but i like her with Vector better.

 

And finally the Sith, i don't think Theron really suit a Sith, none of them.

I've tried both SW and SI, and in both case, i felt like Theron was some kind of lost puppy they were keeping around waiting to find someone who would suit them better, and that none of them really loved him, he was just there to keep them warm at night and keep them company.

Personally, I’d place myself opposite. I actually just don’t find Jedi x Theron all that appealing myself. I appreciate many of the story elements of it, and I think it can be good (as I’ve described with others) but when it comes to personal preference I enjoy him with Sith so much more.

 

I picture him having a lot of hang ups with the Jedi given his past (not that they couldn’t be overcome for the right person) and the idea of exploring what it means to have a connection to the force, but not choose the path of a Jedi seems like interesting ground to tread with him. Also I like the way and Imp character would push him and vice versa.

 

For example, I have a hard time picturing a Jedi executing an unarmed person who poses no immediate threat, yet when you have Saresh cornered after her assassination attempt you can kill her getting approval from Theron. I don’t think Theron would ever shoot her on his own in that situation, but the idea that he secretly wants it in intriguing. You wouldn’t see eye to eye on everything, making it fun to see where you could push each other to grow and the areas you have surprisingly similarities.

 

Dunno, i feel like he's somehow too soft for a Sith, but honnestly i find most romance options don't fit any of them.

Andronikos could work with a SI as he's clearly not afraid of her and she could find that attractive, but he would not really feel like her equals in the long run, but i'm not really fond of that pairing anyways, well i don't really like any of the vanilla romances for the SI, and that's why my Nox is still single to this day.

Cytharat was a nice match for a male SI though, too bad it was so short lived and not a full fledged romance. I'd really love to have someone like that for him.

The only ones for me that could work for them as real romances would be Lana or Arcann.

 

My personnal favourite with the SW is Arcann, they're both powerfull warriors who were used as tools / weapons by Vitiate / Valkorion, and even when they were ennemies, he never lied to her, or tried to manipulate her.

Well, they tried to kill each other, but that was mainly Valkorion's fault, and while i could see a case of hero-worshiping from Arcann towards the JK as she would probably save him out of compassion as it was proven during her class story that she's a firm believer in redemption, i think the SW who decides to spare him would probably do so for a much more pragmatic reason which is : he's strong and they both want to get rid of Valkorion, he can be usefull, and if not, she can still kill him.

He did awfull things, but so did she, so who is she to judge him while they were at war.

And after being redeemed he's never given any reason not to trust him. I think that's a relationship that would develop while they're fighting side by side and as time passes, she sees him first as a valuable ally, and then a potential partner that is vastly different from Quinn on every level, and who could truly be her equal, so everything Quinn ended up not being to her.

And well, my SW is a BT3, so except Arcann, every BT2 male quite look like shrimps compared to her

I Think Theron is "soft" compared to a true Sith, in that he ultimately believes in mercy, compassion, etc... but if you play an Imp character who either never bought into the Sith ways (for Inquisitor this can be rather easy, you were forced to be Sith after all, so it's easy to resent them and reject their values), or had a crisis of conscious/change of heart, etc... it still can work out.

 

As far as looks go I almost exclusively stick to BT 1 and 2, I just haven't found a character I feel fits the others yet, as you pointed out it can make cut scenes where they interact look awkward.

[grania]

Vector is the rock for an agent caught up in an otherwise insane treacherous world, I see him as the only thing holding my agent back from insanity.

 

I felt the exact same way about Vector, but more strongly with my dark side agent.

 

I'm going to be playing a dark trooper soon and I'm almost nervous about it, just like I was when I first played the agent dark - I had no idea how Vector's romance would play out, in my head anyway. As it turned out, it made my agent's relationship with Vector even richer and more memorable.

 

Anyone have any insight on the relationship between Aric and a dark trooper?

[Karameck]

I felt the exact same way about Vector, but more strongly with my dark side agent.

 

I'm going to be playing a dark trooper soon and I'm almost nervous about it, just like I was when I first played the agent dark - I had no idea how Vector's romance would play out, in my head anyway. As it turned out, it made my agent's relationship with Vector even richer and more memorable.

 

Anyone have any insight on the relationship between Aric and a dark trooper?

It depends how Dark you want to go, and what you consider dark. Aric already approved of certain Darkside choices, such as killing people who are already defeated.

 

As far as going full psycho mode, assuming you have some dark history of “Imps killed my history/homeworld, I’m out for revenge” it could work if played right, but Jorgan cares a lot about protecting pub troops, so if you’re evil to the point of sacrificing your own I think it’s a hard sell.

 

And Vector romance is super sweet, really loved that one, I wish his return would have done him more justice.