Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

[grizbi]

D I V E R S I T Y

 

That's what I care about!

 

I don't care about small issues with balance as long as I can be "somewhat" or "enough" competitive.

 

Really, If I wanted to play a perfectly balanced pvp game I would choose Battlefield 3 or this kind of game.

 

What I want to see is...way more diversity, builds and choices.

 

Please don't dumb down this game to a FPS game with a MMORPG engine. This make no sense and the same people asking for "balance" will be the first ones crying or leaving because the game has becomen boring and linear.

 

Please don't forget all of us who are ok with small issues as long as the game gain more depth and diversity.

[Metalmac]

I like this, it's fun. Especially the part where no one brings up how the mechanics favor the republic in many ways:

 

Rupublic Salvation heals for more than 1k more than Revification does.

 

 

Grav round has a shorter travel time than tracer missile.

 

etc. etc. etc. WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE PEOPLE?! WHY IS THERE NOT MOAR QQ?! The sky is falling, why is everyone so calm?

 

Funny that you could only find these and pretty much that is it.

 

Perfectly obvious the love from BW is sprinkled on the Imp and not the Rep.

[Exoteis]

D I V E R S I T Y

 

That's what I care about!

 

That's fun ! Because PvP player also care about this ! That's why you have mirrors.

 

It looks different, weapons are diferent, rage/energy/mana/heat/ammo are diferent, but in the end both sides are equal.

 

This way you have diversity + competition all at once !

 

FACT IS THE MIRRORS HAVE ISSUES ! They are not accurate in both side.

So this has to be fixed.

 

IT WON'T AFFECT YOUR SO LOVED DIVERSITY.

 

Herp derp.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Exoteis

[DVSvictim]

i agree with this 100%, but then again all i do is punish you pesky imps with my awesome vanguard altho shame on you bio for ninja-nerfing my stockstrike crit not cool lol i liked my 3.5k crits

 

but screw your class imbalances, ill just play better

Edited January 26, 2012 by DVSvictim

[Exoteis]

 

but screw your class imbalances, ill just play better

 

Agree with you, think this is the only thing to do.

 

1: unsubscribe

2: change faction to imperial

3: stick with republic and be strong, be the underdog. Try to play even though you know imps have an advantage on 6 out of 8 classes.

 

$200.000.000 budget. Yet they can't balance a game.

[mikroh]

Actually that was brought up, but before I could add it to the OP the fix was put in the patch notes.

 

Which ironically made it work more in the favor of my argument because it took a few posts and immediately the one ability republic had working for them in favor against the sith was changed.

Actually the revivification/salvation bug has been popular in the Sorcerer class forums for weeks now(also had a few posts in the PTS forums which kept getting moved to the class forums). I know that I and many others have been sending in bug reports to BW since the beginning of the month to report that revivification does not receive an initial heal. Your thread is not the end all be all of bugs and disparities between the factions. Perhaps you should submit these issues via an in game bug report too. It'll take a few days and your response will be a generic "We have forwarded your issue to the next level. You will not receive any updates on this issue" but it will eventually get through. Very likely BW is aware of these issues and is working on correcting them as they themselves have said.

 

We're still not sure what the Salvation change even does since you need to level a new consular on the PTS to level 40. The fix says "Salvation: No longer heals targets twice on application. It now correctly heals all affected targets once when applied." So did they remove the initial heal or the first HoT tick that ticked at the same time as the initial heal? The spell tooltip reads "Heals all allies within 8 meters of the targeted area. Targets remaining in the area heal for an additional xxx over 10 seconds." which leads people to think there should be an initial heal, then a HoT. So if the ability is "fixed" and there is an initial heal + 10 HoT's the sorcerer version is still broken. If it removes the initial heal so both abilities have 11 HoT's both abilities would be broken (or the tooltip is very strangely worded). The actual fix is still unknown.

 

If you have followed and or read the thread as it progressed you would see I havent added some thing that I know were speculation, or people misreading lag or ability delay. And in several cases I have asked for video proof on some issues before putting them in the OP.

 

So if you want that added, let me see some proof. Chances are though you are just some troll trying to cause trouble. But if their is any legitimacy in that issue, someone let me know.

I would like to see your proof that Electrocute ignores resolve and/or LoS. I have tried hundreds of times and have never been able to reproduce any situation where it is possible.

Edited January 26, 2012 by mikroh

[Exoteis]

pumbb

[Kellindell]

Another person who didnt read the post. ITS ALREADY THE SAME...but one side has a series of advantages that have nothing to do with flavor or diversity. As I stated in another post, if two classes that are exactly the same in all ways except the spell fireball for one class its a 2 sec cast, and the other its a 1.5 second cast. Everything else is mirrored.

 

That isnt diversity, its just imbalance. No flavor, no nothing just pure and simple imbalance.

 

That is what is going on here.

 

D I V E R S I T Y

 

That's what I care about!

 

I don't care about small issues with balance as long as I can be "somewhat" or "enough" competitive.

 

Really, If I wanted to play a perfectly balanced pvp game I would choose Battlefield 3 or this kind of game.

 

What I want to see is...way more diversity, builds and choices.

 

Please don't dumb down this game to a FPS game with a MMORPG engine. This make no sense and the same people asking for "balance" will be the first ones crying or leaving because the game has becomen boring and linear.

 

Please don't forget all of us who are ok with small issues as long as the game gain more depth and diversity.

[Kellindell]

As I said, I have no hard proof that electrocute hits through resolve as I dont run fraps and my screen shot taking skills in PvP are not that amazing. not to mention, no combat log, so its hard to tell when what is happening.

 

I stated it was speculation, and I asked for it to be looked at.

 

I do know that twice in 1v1s with sorcerers I have been electrocuted through a full resolve bar, and a few other people claimed the same.

 

In my OP it says straight up "not confirmed". But it is a believed issue and thus I think its worth being looked at/tested.

[Ancaglon]

It would be nice if the Dev team would at least acknowledge the problems, even if they don't have any quick fixes.

[Trykon]

Perfect post on the imbalance, only issue is, the developers will never take a look at this post. It will only fade into the bowels of oblivion.

 

Sad..

Edited January 26, 2012 by Trykon

[Orlake]

Not if I can help it, up you go!

[SpawnMorePsi]

Interesting read. What shocked me the most is the obvious imbalance with a 90 SEC CD vs. a 60 SEC CD on the same abilities.

 

All the other "bugs" can be "justified" by the simple statement of "oops, The animations are doing this, sorry. We'll look into it". The cooldown is just right out retarded and shows that the Devs obviously shouldn't be creating Online games, as they can't even look by their own personal bias when creating a game that should be Balanced.

 

 

EDIT; Im very well aware the actually fixed the cooldown, That's not the point. The point is that something like that actually made it trough the BETA. It shouldn't even make it trough Development or the ALPHA.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SpawnMorePsi

[Karma_UK]

These issues need to be fixed ASAP or republic is going to keeping bleeding more and more players over to empire.

 

Bioware were quick to release some stats at launch about WZ played etc...

 

How about faction balance per server numbers now?

[Evray]

Interesting read. What shocked me the most is the obvious imbalance with a 90 SEC CD vs. a 60 SEC CD on the same abilities.

 

All the other "bugs" can be "justified" by the simple statement of "oops, The animations are doing this, sorry. We'll look into it". The cooldown is just right out retarded and shows that the Devs obviously shouldn't be creating Online games, as they can't even look by their own personal bias when creating a game that should be Balanced.

 

Yeah this is a glaring issue for me. I roll republic, we suck. Our armor is less cool, our republic fleet is significantly less interesting. All of our side has less polish, our stories are less interesting, and our entire class and chance in pvp is so gimped by comparison its not even funny sometimes.

 

Its one thing when you give orcs to one side and humans to another and the orcs are overpowered with special abilities. Its another thing when you give the same virtual class to both sides, and make identical trees and abilities, and then mess up the number difference.

 

Missing the 'animation' problem is a simple over-sight. But when two identical attacks do have different cds for no apparent reason? Thats just sloppy.

[CommanderFrog]

Imo biggest issue is BH/trooper resources, I have a 30 vanguard and 20 powertech, my PT can use their attack about 6-9 times before hitting heat cap, while vanguard can only use their shock 4-5 times...Huge difference

 

Project/shock is the 2nd biggest difference, smuggler/IA sabotage charge/probe doesnt seem to matter, it seems to put the debuff on them either way, regardless of arrival time.

[SteveConnors]

This has to be fixed asap, if they have to speed up or cut out the slow animations during PvP then do it, Republic is gimped too much as is.

 

maybe BW should force all their employees to play Repub for a month, I bet we would see fixes then...

[Taova]

I'd like to see a CM response to this. It is in fact affecting the enjoyment of the game.

[Metalmac]

Interesting read. What shocked me the most is the obvious imbalance with a 90 SEC CD vs. a 60 SEC CD on the same abilities.

 

All the other "bugs" can be "justified" by the simple statement of "oops, The animations are doing this, sorry. We'll look into it". The cooldown is just right out retarded and shows that the Devs obviously shouldn't be creating Online games, as they can't even look by their own personal bias when creating a game that should be Balanced.

 

 

EDIT; Im very well aware the actually fixed the cooldown, That's not the point. The point is that something like that actually made it trough the BETA. It shouldn't even make it trough Development or the ALPHA.

 

What is the justification for BioWare to say that a mirror class should suffer such a vast difference in the same ability?

90 seconds vs 60 seconds?

 

Now add in that when a Scoundrel throws the charge it also takes 1.5 seconds longer as the animation has to finish before the charge travels to the target. When you watch a Imperial Agent do the same this it takes .5 seconds to hit the target.

 

So you get 1.5 second travel time vs .5 travel time and 15 seconds less often?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Metalmac

[Metalmac]

I like this, it's fun. Especially the part where no one brings up how the mechanics favor the republic in many ways:

 

Rupublic Salvation heals for more than 1k more than Revification does.

 

 

Grav round has a shorter travel time than tracer missile.

 

etc. etc. etc. WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE PEOPLE?! WHY IS THERE NOT MOAR QQ?! The sky is falling, why is everyone so calm?

 

No imbalances on both sides need to be fixed. The problem is the number on the Republic side are 10 to 1 in favor of Imperials.

 

Now to ignore only one side would be a serious injustice, but then if you are evil you like that.

[ErrantMercenary]

No imbalances on both sides need to be fixed. The problem is the number on the Republic side are 10 to 1 in favor of Imperials.

 

Now to ignore only one side would be a serious injustice, but then if you are evil you like that.

 

 

The accidental Salvation doubletick has already been addressed. That leaves Republic players with one imbalance in their favor: Grav Round has a marginally shorter (my personal tests put it somewhere just north of a tenth of a second) travel time than Tracer Missile.

[GitRDone]

BUMPing for great justice.

[grizbi]

I hope that differences between the "mirror" classes will increase in the future.

 

"Mirror" doesn't necessarily mean "the same". It can be applied in different ways. I just see it as an indication on the playstyle and attitude.

 

Maybe you guys have heard from a developper that "mirror" was "exactly identical in every single aspect especially in pvp". I haven't. Feel free to point me the post or news where it has been stated officially. In that case I would call it an error from BW. Because they have obviously chosen to bring small differences here and there.

 

Anyway, I would prefer more depth and diversity in that game : new abilities, more teamplay, more builds. I'm the kind of guy who like to experiment. More diversity = more things to do and more ways to feel different. I hate clones.

 

That's my point of view and I'm certainly not the only one to feel that way.

 

And I post here because it is directly related to that thread : you want more clones, I want less of them.

 

I hope you can accept my point of view.

[savionen]

Diversity would refer more to if a Vanguard and Powertech fundamentally had some different skills, played differently.

 

Currently a Shadow and an Assassin have all the same skills, but different visuals. And the Assassin version of several skills have an advantage. It's not really diversity if one side has all the positives and the other all the negatives.

Edited January 26, 2012 by savionen

[grizbi]

Diversity would refer more to if a Vanguard and Powertech fundamentally had some different skills, played differently.

 

Yep. Ideally I'd like them to have different skills in the future.

 

Currently a Shadow and an Assassin have all the same skills, but different visuals. And the Assassin version of several skills have an advantage. It's not really diversity if one side has all the positives and the other all the negatives.

 

I can't say for sure - as I'm a Gunsliger - if those difference are as important as you say when it comes to pvp. If that's such a concern, it's ok if you ask for more justice.

 

I'm myself concerned by the time needed to adjust the game for the "perfect balance".

Balance is an ongoing process which never really end. I think that balance should be an overall feeling, not an exact science. I would prefer the dev to focus on more content for more diversified gameplay. Bcause , you know, since time is not infinite, they have to set priorities. Also I want the game to be a success, and I think that there are other things to focus on.

Edited January 26, 2012 by grizbi