The Third-Faction Compromise

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Aren't the Voss pretty much neutral in terms of their Force alignment ? Wich would make them pretty much "grey" Force users.

They only have a different view on the Force than both Sith and Jedi and use it differently too

 

You need to consider the wording of things. This is from a description of them them on the wiki.

 

"Voss that were said to have had incredible aptitude for the Force. However, they possessed no formal knowledge of the Force and were uninterested in outsiders' opinions, and were considered to be Gray. "

 

"The Voss had no formal knowledge of the Force and were uninterested in training from outsiders.[1] They held an entirely different view of the Force and believed themselves to be its chosen people. They were considered to be Gray by the Jedi and Sith.[2] The visions had by the Mystics were never wrong"

 

Voss Mystics are noted for two things, thier 'vision quests' and healing abilties. The Voss definately held a different view of the Force than Jedi and Sith do. There are cultural aspects that effect the way they viewed the outside world.

 

'Gray' with regard to them was more about the Vision quest aspects because when they were in a vision state, the user themselves were not in control, the vision itself was. So if the vision manifested in such a manner that it would include aspects of a Darkside User for example, they would seem to take on some of mannisims and speach patterns that the vision itself was trying to express. Visions quests caused them to "step outside themselves" so to speak so that the vision itself was in control.

 

The Voss Mystic themselves had no influence or even consiuness of what the Vision was conveying so the actual user themself was not in any way in control. They didn't get to make choices, they didn't get to take actions, and they couldn't make any personal decisions while they were in 'enraptured' by the vision.

 

If you get no say or influence in something you can't be held responsible for what happens and it's not a fair estimation of the user thenselves. It's not them doing anything, they were just sort of like the storyteller as opposed to the writer.'

 

This is my wording by the way, I'm simply trying to describe how the visions acted and how the user was not actually in any control.

 

The Voss Mystic is the messenger, and you don't shoot the messenger, so to speak. They weren't in control of what they were doing or saying, they were the the conduit of the vision, not actors in it. So, no, they couldn't be held responsible or have 'intent' so they aren't really force users in the tradtional sense. The Force uses them, they don't use the Force, if that makes any sense heh.

 

They were also known as great healers which is a decidedly lightside manifestation and that was them and that was their intention. They never 'willingly' called upon the Darkside of the Force, but as healers they did call upon the Lightside of the Force.

 

So this is why I think that to an outsider view it seemed that way, but it wasn't actually that way because of the lack of control and intent in the vision manifestations.

 

That's why the wording is as its presented. "were considered to be" as opposed to 'they are'.

 

This whole Grey Jedi started do to a misinterpetation of what it meant by imaginative fans. The term Grey Jedi when it was first used was to describe a Jedi who who didn't think that the council was always right and sometimes they disobeyed an order given to them. The example that it was first used in was about Qui-gon.

 

Qui-gon was considered a 'grey jedi' because he didn't think all the rules and rituals were all written in stone. And when he went to the council and asked for permission to train Anakin, they refused the request and told him he wasn't to train Anakin. Well, as we know, Qui-gon disobeyed that order.

 

When used about Qui-gon, and this is a quote - "The Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn was thought of as a Gray Jedi by some members of the Order for his frequent disagreements with the Council. Jedi Master Tyvokka expressed concern over this and Master Obi-Wan Kenobi confessed that he could see why some might view Jinn as a Gray Jedi."

 

That didn't make him a darkside user, that didn't make him not on the Lightside, he never used one Darkside power ever. He is every bit the measure of a Jedi in the most tradtional sense, he just sometimes broke some rules. He never even considered the use of the Darkside or even tho notion of someone using both. So grey jedi was a term to use for Jedi who were bit of a maverick at times.

 

When it was used in conntection with Revan it was intended as and this is a quote - "A maverick yes, but no gray Jedi. Revan is unusual for being one of the only, if not the only, Sith Lords to ever turn back to the light side and live, but the only time he could ever be considered a gray Jedi is when he broke from the order to intervene in the Mandalorian wars."

 

The term was used for Asoka because she was kicked out of the Jedi Order and than when she was pardoned and was asked if she wanted to return to the Jedi Order, she refused, because she didn't have faith in all the Jedi Order's strictures. She never even once used the Dark side of the Force.

 

Jolee Bindo was called a grey jedi because -

 

 

During the war with Exar Kun, his wife, like many other Jedi, fell to the dark side. She attempted to turn Bindo, who resisted, culminating in a vicious lightsaber duel, which brought her to her knees. Unable to kill his own wife, Bindo let her go; this would ultimately lead to the deaths of many Jedi at her hands before she was finally struck down in battle. A sensitive topic for Bindo, the Jedi believed that he was unlucky in his life and just had, "So many bad memories, some you never want to think about ever again." In fact, it took much prodding and questioning by Revan to extract any information about his wife at all, much less the entire story.[1]

 

The Council did not punish Bindo for his actions, though, stating that he had learned his lesson the hard way. When instead they wished to promote him to the status of Jedi Knight, Bindo lost faith in the wisdom of the Council and went into self-exile, giving up his aspirations to be a Jedi Consular.[1]

 

 

The term "gray" was specific to the Jedi "Gray Jedi", anyone ever hear of a "Gray Sith" or a Gray Witch of Dathomir?

 

It's only official use was in regard to some Jedi who sometimes broke some rules or disobeyed the council on something. It was never anything to do with using both sides of the Force. That was a purely fan made idea and misuse of the term of "Grey Jedi"

 

The following is nothing but me ranting and raving for a long time in a somewhat hostile manner, please feel free to ignore -

 

I'll be honest, -personally, I think the concept itself is rediculous, and a total misrepresentation of what everyone knows about the Force in Lore. Star Wars is whatever George Lucas and Mickey Mouse say it is. It's a slap in the face to the genre, and I'll be honest, if you ask me, if you don't like there being a Darkside and a Lightside, if you don't like there being War between the Empire and the Republic, of you don't like the idea that Jedi and Sith are implaccable primordial enemies that are polar opposites of one another, if you don't see that Sith are soppose to be the bad guys and the Jedi the good guys, than I don't really understand why they would consider themselves a Star Wars fan at all. That's why we feel in love with Star Wars. That's why we can't get enough of it. And That's why everyone on the face of the planet knows what Star Wars is. - If you meat a pigmie while in Africa on safari and asked them who Darth Vader is, even the zulu tribes everywhere know who he is.

 

I'm not saying anyone is wrong or stupid for liking the "gray" whatever the hell, there's no accounting for taste. There's no right or wrong to it But what I don't understand is why people think that's a real thing in Star Wars when there is not one thing in any Star Wars movie that anyone has ever seen that anyone could possibly confuse or be led to believe that it's even possible for them to exist.

 

If they exist, than that means, Yoda, Palapatine, Darth Maul, Vitiate, Kenobi, Windu, Exar Kun, Darth Bane, the Qel Dromas, Ki-Adi Mundi, and every other force user idiot you have ever seen in any movie were totally and utterly incompetant and have no idea what the hell the Force is. They were all wrong. heh

 

I see a Darkside and a Lightside cateogory on the align read and the battle going back and forth up top on the menu, but I can't seem to find anywhere that it says Gray. Neutral is not gray, neutral means you're totally uninvolved and Gray is friggen color heh

 

How come I never heard of the Grey Side of the Force? How come no one ever,not even 1 time every got even 1 Grayside point? heh - Why would anyone in their right mind ever be anything but Gray if that was an option? You can do whatever you, your chuck Force Lighting at Force Grips at every 5 year old who pisses you off, and heal some other idiot and be totally unaccountable for your actions? heh How come no one in the Star Wars universe ever heard of a Grey Jedi? They've heard of Jedi, they've heard of Sith. No one every heard of Gray anytthing. I guess they forgot to teach that part of history in Social Studies class on Naboo. Why would they be so mysterous and go out of their way to ensure no one ever even knows they exist? How come we never see them? How come no one has ever seen them? Why are they the Bigfoot of Force-land?

 

In what material way is a Jedi capable of being gray but that is totally infeasible for a Sith? So a Jedi who pretends he's Gray, its okay for him to use Force Lightning and Light some idiots *** up who cut him off, but Darth Vader is totally incapable of healing someone's paper cut but its totally rediculous to think that a Sith could be Grey, but a Jedi, yeah no thats fine because we always hear about how emotional they are and how they are so cool calm and collected that no one notices that a Jedi is using Force Lighting and not getting in trouble for it.

 

The Jedi are Lightside users and they only use the Lightside of the Force. Sith are Darkside users and they only use the Darkside of the Force. How do I know that? Because that's what George Lucas told me.

 

Does anybody think that if they asked George Lucas what he thought about the Gray Jedi crap that he would think that's cool and a good idea? Or would he just reply by slapping the taste out of their mouth?

 

I'm fine with people liking the idea, but when it comes to SWTOR, can we just play Star Wars please?

 

 

[HoloTweed]

Insane. There is no balance between the Light and the Dark with regard to force users themselves. Your either on the Darkside or the Lightside.

 

That is not true. You are not "ON" the darkside or lightside. You use the Force for good or for evil, for others or yourself... the darkside is alluring and CAN overpower a person's force of will, but that doesn't mean they are ON the darkside.

 

Has "canon" ever spoken about whether there even IS a "lightside"? It's never been mentioned in the films... only the Force or the Darkside of the Force. Jedi use the darkside from time to time (theoretically, any force power used for attack is "darkside" - only the Force used for knowledge and defense is considered otherwise).

 

So there is EASILY a balance between light and dark in Force users. Jedi likely were originally in balance and skewed too far into goody-goody land and became pious and separated from "humanity" - take their thoughts on relationships and such, true human connection. Darkside users, obviously ONLY care about their personal desires.

[SiegePro]

Insane. There is no balance between the Light and the Dark with regard to force users themselves. Your either on the Darkside or the Lightside.

First comes the day

Then comes the night.

After the darkness

Shines through the light.

The difference, they say,

Is only made right

By the resolving of gray

Through refined Jedi sight.

-Journal of the Whills 7:477

(Star Wars - The Force Awakens novelization)

 

“Jedi and Sith wield the Ashla and Bogan. The light and the dark. I'm the one in the middle.”

-Bendu (Star Wars Rebels)

 

Luke Skywalker: Breathe. Just breathe. Now reach out. What do you see?

Rey: Light. Darkness. A balance.

-Star Wars - The Last Jedi

 

Canon Star Wars says you’re wrong. Bendu alone is sufficient proof that an individual can be a balance of light and dark. The others are just gravy.

 

Indeed, as early as the novelization of Revenge of the Sith (2005 - half a decade before Lucas sold it to Disney) the entire message of the canon has been that the prequel-era Jedi had a fundamental misunderstanding of the Force; that they’d lost something critical along the way and could only triumph if they regained that lost understanding.

 

It is further hinted, again as early as Revenge of the Sith novelization, that what they lost was LOVE. It was not the power or mastery of the Jedi that destroyed the Sith. It was the love of a father for his son.

 

In other words, it is passion channeled towards positive ends and the natural cycle of birth, death and rebirth that embodies the true and proper nature of the Force, not the fractured dogmas of the prequel-era Jedi and the Sith.

Edited November 5, 2018 by SiegePro

[MandFlurry]

If they ever make or even acknowlede a "gray force user" if The Lucas Arts Storyteller's Group doesn't shut that stupid crap down in 20 seconds, I am cancelling my subscription and never coming back and tell every gamer I ever come in contact with to avoid the game for the plague that it is.

 

It's official, no grey anything, the force isn't one thing, its a darkside and a lightside. -

 

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/98917/are-grey-jedi-canon-official-lucasfilm-response - Are Grey Jedi Canon? Official Lucasfilm Response!

 

Does the The Lucas Arts Storyteller's Group try to give the game some breathing room? Sure it does, but that's not breather room that is breaking with canon and lore and there is nothing that has the Star Wars Trademark on it that the The Lucas Arts Storyteller's Group can't order or tell them they can't do. They have authority over anything and everything that has the Star Wars trademark and if they tell SWTOR they can't do something, SWTOR must obey them.

 

They can make anything they want canon, they can unmake anything they want canon they can even change their minds and unmake some canon that they had said was canon after it was originally declared not canon.

 

No grey anything. That's not Star Wars, that's just making shizzle up.

 

Nothing personal, my distain is for the idea, not you and not anyone who agrees with other RPers that they want to play that alternate universe idea and as long as everyone in that group is cool with it, go for it.

 

But, it's a fan made idea, it doesn't exist in real Star Wars.

 

And no, Ashoka and Revan aren't Grey Jedi or anyone else, they mention them by name in the press release.

 

Your right and wrong, also Disney really isn't that much Star Warsy right now, as they don't follow GL's vision. You are right that there isn't such a thing as Gray Jedi, just as there was only 1 Light sided Sith?. Different topic.

 

There are Gray force users, that is a Fact. But Gray Jedi are not following the way of the Jedi code, so to say that there are Gray Jedi, as opposed to Gray Force users is totally different. There is such a thing as Gray force users and there was Gray Jedi in which even Kyle Katarn and other Jedi dabbled in. Even Luke Skywalker himself dablbed in the Dark side while staying true to the Light.

 

Thing is in later both Canon's would redo both how the Jedi and Sith were interpreted, where Grand Master Luke Skywalker would restate that Jedi could not be dabbing in the Dark arts because to many Jedi had failed to learn to use the Dark side and make that Dark art a Light sided 1 like with Force lightning in which Luke was able to use in the Lightside.

 

So, you lied a bit there. True there is no real Gary Jedi anymore, but there was. Fact is there are Gray Force User's thought. That is a Fact though.