No Longer Worried About Upcoming Story Updates

[Dracofish]

Short answer, YES.

The Devs have already decided that this narrative (that suits some people) is more important than the narrative that suits you.

 

 

Then don't play that character or quit completely, in the end it is your choice.

 

 

 

You seem to be in the minority here but regardless it doesn't matter what you like or don't like just like it doesn't matter what I like or don't like, this is already decided.

 

 

 

You have already lost this battle. There is no way for them to add the things you want now and they have already outlined these things are not an option, sure they could be holding back but to what ends, I highly doubt this is the case.

 

The only thing you have control over is your own narrative.

 

The problem is that they (BioWare) gave us these choices and are now handwaving them away, expecting us to just forget the last hundred or so hours of gameplay. And if we don't voice our concerns, how else are the writers supposed to get any sort of feedback? Just taking our cookies and being happy with them, no matter how stale they may be, isn't how things are supposed to work.

 

I do realize that we have to get back to The Conflict, but we have three thousand years to play with here. There was no reason to throw us into it overnight. And there was no reason to just discapoof the Alliance...because we would still have assets, such as the droid factories (where we make droids that are assets) as well as remnant Fleet ships...and that's not even taking into consideration our control of Iokath. All of that is just...handwaved away with some ill-written footnote we're supposed to swallow.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dracofish

[casirabit]

I never expected to actually "switch sides" as some have stated. I knew from the beginning we were not going to "officially" switch sides as that would create problems on the fleets. It would have only been inside the story. There is just too much they would have had to do to allow "official" switching and that I knew would never happen.

 

If they do the saboteur right then I will be satisfied. Of course I would have prefer to "unofficially" switch sides (story-wise only) but if they couldn't for whatever reasons then please at least do the saboteur correctly and would you at least please let us choose who we want to tell. For some of us Lana is a perfect choice, for others not so much.

 

I don't hate her but come on she is sith and if I am trying to sabotage the empire she should not be be the one that knows what I am doing.

[Dracofish]

I never expected to actually "switch sides" as some have stated. I knew from the beginning we were not going to "officially" switch sides as that would create problems on the fleets. It would have only been inside the story. There is just too much they would have had to do to allow "official" switching and that I knew would never happen.

 

If they do the saboteur right then I will be satisfied. Of course I would have prefer to "unofficially" switch sides (story-wise only) but if they couldn't for whatever reasons then please at least do the saboteur correctly and would you at least please let us choose who we want to tell. For some of us Lana is a perfect choice, for others not so much.

 

I don't hate her but come on she is sith and if I am trying to sabotage the empire she should not be be the one that knows what I am doing.

 

Yeah, these are concerns I have as well. I know they're saying Lana is it because she's literally the only companion we have who can't be dead. But why couldn't it have been Theron too? If he has lines anywhere in this content, that means they did have Troy Baker in the booth...so why not? For those of us where he's not dead? I'm sick of having her be It™ (And no, I don't want her to die...I just think it's really crappy that she's all we have...I'd just like to have my Idiot Spy Boyfriend be my contact and/or confidant for once.)

 

And now I'm even worried that my Imp characters will lose Theron by default...simply for being Imperial...and not sabotaging the Imperials.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dracofish

[SiegePro]

I never expected to actually "switch sides" as some have stated. I knew from the beginning we were not going to "officially" switch sides as that would create problems on the fleets.

Serious question... How would it create problems on the fleets?

 

Presuming the faction swap works like it has in every other game I've seen that's had the option (and most of those actually let you swap back and forth as long as you completed the requirements each time), you lose access to your old faction-only areas and gain access to the faction-only areas of the new one. If there's separate chat lists you lose the old one and gain the new one. If you're part of a guild, you automatically /gquit and know this going into the choice. Your Pub/Imp flag for opposing forces gets flipped as well.

 

The fact that this looks to be a one-time only faction swap also means you don't need to worry about the mechanics of what happens when they switch back again later. Its one-and-done so that's already less work than most games that implement faction swapping have to deal with.

 

While the voice actors are recording their new lines for 6.0, you also have them record the dozen-ish lines of dialogue associated with the terminal access versions of the heroics and faction specific flashpoints (probably lock out Black Talon/Esseles as its explicitly early tier content) and lock out the planetary missions that supposedly occurred years ago.

 

Alternately, if its REALLY an issue, simply announce that if you choose to faction swap, your character will not voice dialogue (only subtitles) while running older content. They basically did that already with the alliance alerts, billing it at "classic KOTOR" style conversations. Its a known element of the choice going in and players can choose whether they care more about the faction swap or getting full voice acting for all scenes.

 

Mechanically, its pretty straight forward and other MMO's have added faction swapping in the past, some even while on a pretty shoestring budget (City of Heroes/Villains for example).

 

Lore-wise, I've already pointed to examples of Sith and Jedi NPCs swapping factions and they get to run around on the fleet next to the PCs all the time. Why would the PCs having once been part of the alternate faction be any more of an issue?

 

Frankly, a former Dark Council member, Emperor's Wrath, Jedi Battlemaster or Bar'senthor of the Jedi Order, etc. defecting would be a huge propaganda win for their respective side so its not like they'd be some unknown figure to those who remained loyal to their faction and are visiting their respective fleets.

[QuinlanSaathis]

The problem is that they (BioWare) gave us these choices and are now handwaving them away, expecting us to just forget the last hundred or so hours of gameplay. And if we don't voice our concerns, how else are the writers supposed to get any sort of feedback? Just taking our cookies and being happy with them, no matter how stale they may be, isn't how things are supposed to work.

 

I do realize that we have to get back to The Conflict, but we have three thousand years to play with here. There was no reason to throw us into it overnight. And there was no reason to just discapoof the Alliance...because we would still have assets, such as the droid factories (where we make droids that are assets) as well as remnant Fleet ships...and that's not even taking into consideration our control of Iokath. All of that is just...handwaved away with some ill-written footnote we're supposed to swallow.

 

They allowed you to ally with a faction of your choice and are expanding that system with the Saboteur which for some characters could be a ton of fun.

Never did they say you could switch factions, that was merely inferred by the players.

 

I am not saying don't voice your concerns, of course it is important to do this, I am not trying to stop the discussion, just insert a little reality.

[Goreshaga]

But seriously, if your character openly sided with the opposing faction on Iokath, why would anyone in their original faction seriously consider calling that same character for help ? Why would they trust someone who clearly showed that they don't give a crap about helping them ?

That just sounds absolutely silly...

[IoNonSoEVero]

I think the problem with doing a full-out faction switch is that it would affect how your character behaves on every single planet and in every single quest. It would require changing so many flags it wouldn't be funny.

 

For instance, if your character was switched to Republic, you'd lose access to Vaiken, the Imperial-only flashpoints and the Imperial heroics. BUT the Republic-side flashpoints and heroics are all set during the class stories, when your character is still in *their* class story in their home faction. So it would break your character's story either way.

 

For every planet's map you would lose your Quick Travel points because they'd now be on bases you couldn't access.

 

On the rare instances when we have characters visiting the opposite faction - for instance a Republic character visiting Dromund Kaas in KOTET - you will notice that is a version of the planet where you don't see Imperial PCs walking around, because it isn't the same one.

 

I was never thinking that we'd have a full out faction change that way. What I DID think is that we'd be able to continue to carry on as we did on Iokath. Ie, we would choose our faction and work with them, and be able to visit their bases on the NEW planets coded specially for that, and so forth.

 

If they were planning on just forcing us to continue with our original factions, they really shouldn't have thrown so many tantalizing chances to switch in our faces. What's the point of Lana asking "we should think about who we want to align with" at the end of Nathema when we don't get to go with the faction we want after all?

[Goreshaga]

I always pictured that the faction swap would be something that is applied inside the solo storyline only, and not affect the fleet or older planets you visit before the choice.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I always pictured that the faction swap would be something that is applied inside the solo storyline only, and not affect the fleet or older planets you visit before the choice.

 

Yep, that is exactly what I thought too. Like you can align with whomever on Iokath and it doesn't affect anything outside that story.

[QuinlanSaathis]

But seriously, if your character openly sided with the opposing faction on Iokath, why would anyone in their original faction seriously consider calling that same character for help ? Why would they trust someone who clearly showed that they don't give a crap about helping them ?

That just sounds absolutely silly...

 

Now you have hit the nail on the head.

The success of this depends on how well they write this transition.

[Fallensouls]

The new expansion is about going to a ancient planet with old jedi ruins, hmm just like Tython , how JJ Abrams of Bioware, to replay Tython over again in a new shell. That doesnt sound fun at all. I really Enjoyed the Knights of the Eternal Throne, what everyone really hated was you were forced to play solo and that was bs. But the story was good. I can tell you it was better than this new story line.

 

And how do you put the Outlander back into a conflict that is over theology which you learn in the eternal throne is all wrong? The jedi are wrong, the Sith are wrong, Valkorian, Marr, and Satele showed him/ her that the power of the force is not light or dark so how do you go back with the story to fighiing over whether light or dark is better? That is why i totally disagree with him or her returning to the previous factions, your character is beyond them now. That will ruin what is already established for your character. You would not side with either faction you would conquer them as a emperor would when betrayed by his allies.

[Swingkittie]

Yeah, these are concerns I have as well. I know they're saying Lana is it because she's literally the only companion we have who can't be dead. But why couldn't it have been Theron too? If he has lines anywhere in this content, that means they did have Troy Baker in the booth...so why not? For those of us where he's not dead? I'm sick of having her be It™ (And no, I don't want her to die...I just think it's really crappy that she's all we have...I'd just like to have my Idiot Spy Boyfriend be my contact and/or confidant for once.)

 

And now I'm even worried that my Imp characters will lose Theron by default...simply for being Imperial...and not sabotaging the Imperials.

 

Theron isn't written out of the picture. I just don't think he plays a large role like tagging along with you. Same with Lana. They mentioned both Lana and Theron will not be major players in this. Those who kept Theron alive will still converse with him. That was confirmed on another thread when people (like me) were worried that he would be silent like the rest of the LI's they gave kill options for. I don't want to give spoilers....I am just saying don't worry about that one.

[Dracofish]

Theron isn't written out of the picture. I just don't think he plays a large role like tagging along with you. Same with Lana. They mentioned both Lana and Theron will not be major players in this. Those who kept Theron alive will still converse with him. That was confirmed on another thread when people (like me) were worried that he would be silent like the rest of the LI's they gave kill options for. I don't want to give spoilers....I am just saying don't worry about that one.

 

I was talking about one of the dev comments about how Lana will be the only one of our companions who knows our true allegiance (if we're supporting our faction or sabotaging). I forget where I saw it, but someone quoted it out on the forums. If that is true...that's kinda...crappy. Because if Lana knows, Theron should know too. (And don't even get me started on Koth.)

 

I always spoil myself so I've already read everything I could find...but a lot of what I've read is contradictory to what the devs have been saying on social media, so right now I'm just taking everything with a grain of salt.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[casirabit]

I was talking about one of the dev comments about how Lana will be the only one of our companions who knows our true allegiance (if we're supporting our faction or sabotaging). I forget where I saw it, but someone quoted it out on the forums. If that is true...that's kinda...crappy.

 

I always spoil myself so I've already read everything I could find...but a lot of what I've read is contradictory to what the devs have been saying on social media, so right now I'm just taking everything with a grain of salt.

 

this one?-- and yea that is where I have a problem as well.

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by casirabit

[Dracofish]

this one?-- and yea that is where I have a problem as well.

 

 

That's the one! And yes, that is, for lack of a better word...******.

 

If Lana knows, then Theron should know too. But because Theron can be "dead", he is essentially being written out. Even if he wasn't to be a focus, Lana is still getting preferential treatment.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[Swingkittie]

I was talking about one of the dev comments about how Lana will be the only one of our companions who knows our true allegiance. I forget where I saw it, but someone quoted it out on the forums. If that is true...that's kinda...crappy.

 

I always spoil myself so I've already read everything I could find, lol.

 

Then I'm sure you saw the same data mined script that I found. However, we don't know what cut scenes those conversations are taking place and if Lana's conversation is in a completely separate scene. I guess we will just wait and see in December. I will run my Jedi Knight through and Jedi Shadow first. They both allied with the Republic on Iokath and Nathema ending. So at least I know that won't be a problem.

[Dracofish]

Then I'm sure you saw the same data mined script that I found. However, we don't know what cut scenes those conversations are taking place and if Lana's conversation is in a completely separate scene. I guess we will just wait and see in December. I will run my Jedi Knight through and Jedi Shadow first. They both allied with the Republic on Iokath and Nathema ending. So at least I know that won't be a problem.

 

Yeah, I edited my post to say that a lot of what I read appears to be contradictory to what the devs have been sharing on social media so... *shrugs*

 

But based on the quote from Charles Boyd, Lana and your contact are the only ones who know your true allegiance...no mention of Theron.

 

And yeah, I'm only bringing testers through first. I'm starting to get fairly worried over an Imp player losing him by default (default meaning by not sabotaging the Imps).

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[Swingkittie]

Yeah, I edited my post to say that a lot of what I read appears to be contradictory to what the devs have been sharing on social media so... *shrugs*

 

But based on the quote from Charles Boyd, Lana and your contact are the only ones who know your true allegiance...no mention of Theron.

 

And yeah, I'm only bringing testers through first. I'm starting to get fairly worried over an Imp player losing him by default (default meaning by not sabotaging the Imps).

 

Same with me. My SI was my first character and the one I play the most. She was the first to do Shadow of Revan and we both got to meet Theron at the same time. Since then i have read his book and comics. So she was the first character I romanced him with and they have been through a lot. I don't want to see her heart broken (again)...

[Swingkittie]

However, at least Charles did say this: I can't promise nobody will ever get mad about it, but I don't think we'd automatically end a romance over it

 

So maybe that is what we will deal with - Theron getting mad at us and that's it. As long as we get a flirt of how can I make this up to you?

[Dracofish]

However, at least Charles did say this: I can't promise nobody will ever get mad about it, but I don't think we'd automatically end a romance over it

 

So maybe that is what we will deal with - Theron getting mad at us and that's it. As long as we get a flirt of how can I make this up to you?

 

Unfortunately, that quote from Charles does little to make me feel better...it's very wishy-washy feeling, like he doesn't want to confirm or deny anything.

 

As a fic writer, I would imagine there should be a moderate level of contention in their relationship (I am a glutton for The Angst, lol). Even though Theron is pretty Ride or Die with the Alliance now, I still can't imagine he'd be happy with taking steps against his people. I think he's smart enough to understand that war is war, and doing your job is doing your job, but he wouldn't be happy about excessive cruelty, etc. Those are just my random thoughts, tho...for whatever they're worth.

 

So if they want to add a bit of that contention in there, awesome...but Theron has already made his choice. He fought against his own people on Iokath, shot at his own father (even though he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn), and still continued on to potentially marry that same character. He should expect an Imp to be an Imp, though as I said above, that doesn't necessarily mean Imp-Who-Cackles-From-The-Rooftops.

 

I'd also like to think that if BioWare gave him to us (as Imps) in the first place, going all the way back to SoR...they wouldn't take him away now. But...I still have those fears.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[casirabit]

I am just getting tired of Lana (NOTE: I don't hate her or want her dead) always being the one we have to talk to. My Republic characters are still going to support the republic so why in the world would they tell Lana about that. She is Sith for goodness sake. It makes no sense for my Jedi to tell her anything about the Republic. My agent shouldn't even tell her since she is going to be sabotaging the empire. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[IoNonSoEVero]

IMHO even as someone who adores Lana and wants her to be my characters' main advisor, it doesn't make sense for a character who is going to sabotage the Empire to tell her. Nor would it make sense for a character who is going to sabotage the Republic to tell Theron.

 

But that's what happens when people cry for kill options on every single character so there's literally nobody left except Gault and Lana (and TBH I don't think Gault would be a good confidante with this). NOT saying anyone here has been asking for kill options, just that this unfortunately is the natural fallout from it. We're left with only one character and it isn't the one that some people want.

 

IMHO there might be a scene in the Stuff We Can't Talk About that has not been uploaded yet where a player might be able to reveal what they are doing to Theron, for those who have kept him around.

 

And I think it will have adverse effects for both Lana and Theron's relationships with the PC. Both them have fought for the opposite faction on Iokath, but they each also clearly want you to join *their* team on Iokath, and they also get upset if you leave the people from their faction behind during the GEMINI chapter. I don't think either one of them is going to smile and nod if you engage in mass murder against their original factions.

 

As far as Lana knowing no matter what, it could be how they plan to kill Lana off, if you sabotage the Empire and they find out that she knew, or if you sabotage the Empire, it could be another strike toward her wanting to leave the player (I am convinced that leaving Theron to die was Strike One with her and it will be cumulative).

 

Or it could be used to tie her (or Theron) to the opposite faction.

Edited October 19, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[FlameYOL]

But that's what happens when people cry for kill options on every single character so there's literally nobody left except Gault and Lana (and TBH I don't think Gault would be a good confidante with this).

Gault would probably low-key sell the information to the highest bidder.