The Nathema Story Line does not make any sense at all

[Nefla]

Taken directly from the link you've provided

"Define your Star Wars Saga

Choose from one of eight iconic roles and become the hero of your personal Star Wars saga—an interactive storyline with cinematic dialogue and full voiceover for all in-game characters."

As for your questions, I can't really understand them. Apologies, English is my 2nd language but I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

 

 

The Eternal Fleet wasn't created by Tenebrae, AKA The Emperor, he merely found it and used it. Nobody wants to kneel before us and serve? Despite the huge losses the Eternal Alliance has suffered after Nathema there are still loyal followers, the Commander still maintains the base and there are still ships that patrol Wild Space on the Eternal Alliance's name.

It's not your English skills, he simply can't string a coherent sentence together.

[SilverWF]

Anyway, Bioware has an experience in killing MMOs already - Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning as example.

Seems, everything going to the same end here too.

 

I never played KOTOR games and has no wish for it.

 

Taken directly from the link you've provided

"Define your Star Wars Saga

Choose from one of eight iconic roles and become the hero of your personal Star Wars saga—an interactive storyline with cinematic dialogue and full voiceover for all in-game characters."

As for your questions, I can't really understand them. Apologies, English is my 2nd language but I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

 

 

The Eternal Fleet wasn't created by Tenebrae, AKA The Emperor, he merely found it and used it. Nobody wants to kneel before us and serve? Despite the huge losses the Eternal Alliance has suffered after Nathema there are still loyal followers, the Commander still maintains the base and there are still ships that patrol Wild Space on the Eternal Alliance's name.

 

But at 1st there is words about MMO - look closely.

 

And what if I decided to not continues story? I am the Eternal Emperor! Knee before me, filth!

 

If you wanna talk about butthurt, look in the mirror kid. Why don't you go make a thread whining about your generic MMO aspects and stop ************ and moaning in story threads hm? Maybe go whine to your mom about it and spare normal people your nonsensical ranting.

 

Your moronic gibberish is hard to understand but I assume you're asking why I'm not asking other players to bow to my character or something? Because larping or whatever is an MMO aspect and again I have zero interest in that. I only have interest in the single player story and character aspects, you know, the aspects BioWare are actually good at? You can't honestly tell me that you play SWtOR for the generic MMO combat and grind right? That would just be laughable Out of so many innovative games you choose the extremely boring and generic one whose one and only saving grace is the great single player story stuff and then you...ignore the only good parts.

 

Or have you even been playing this game at all? You don't seem to know much about it, what did you just play for a few weeks during beta, forget about it for years, and then come back now to cry and whine? Seriously, go away.

 

You are talking like a teen female: that emotions, pathetic attempts to insult - I like you

 

Well, probably your RAM value is too low, so you already forgot. Nvm, I'll repeat: at start it WAS MMO. There was massive battles, gank, PVE etc. Now - not sure. All I've seen here so far - just a single-player game story. And nothing from MMO.

Yes, they has improved this game a lot, but did nothing for MMO part, even worse - they constantly killing this part.

 

Yeah, thx for asking this - I have Legendary Player ingame title. But go away or not - I would decide for myself

[FlameYOL]

But at 1st there is words about MMO - look closely.

 

And what if I decided to not continues story? I am the Eternal Emperor! Knee before me, filth!

 

Re-read my comment, the interactive storyline was also one of the pillars. I am not arguing against multiplayer content, but the story is also a core part of the SWTOR experience, whether you ignore it, enjoy it, hate it, its entirely up to you.

[Fallensouls]

You can thank the people screaming about how the Alliance stuff sucks and that Star Wars can only be Empire vs Republic for the destruction of the Alliance and us returning to Republic vs Empire. Personally I never cared which type/faction of story we got, I just wanted things to be good and make sense.

 

Me too, nice to find some one like minded about the whole Nathema rushed plot hole full story. i am not a fan of returning to the Sith vs Jedi because one it violates Star Wars Cannon. You cannot return to your previous faction because you use both sides of the force and would be viewed as a heretic. That is why Revan left, he could no longer be Sith or Jedi because he knew the force is neither dark nor light.

 

The whole reason the Sith and Jedi fight, is over who is right about which side of the force is better.

 

Also in the Eu it was not mostly about Sith vs Jedi, and the popularity of Star wars grew.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Nefla]

Me too, nice to find some one like minded about the whole Nathema rushed plot hole full story. i am not a fan of returning to the Sith vs Jedi because one it violates Star Wars Cannon. You cannot return to your previous faction because you use both sides of the force and would be viewed as a heretic. That is why Revan left, he could no longer be Sith or Jedi because he knew the force is neither dark nor light.

 

The whole reason the Sith and Jedi fight, is over who is right about which side of the force is better.

 

Also in the Eu it was not mostly about Sith vs Jedi, and the popularity of Star wars grew.

Not to mention it doesn't make any sense for your original faction to take you back if you sided against them previously, especially the empire. For example an imperial agent who was a double agent for the Republic, refuses to help the Empire in KotET, and openly sides against the empire on Iokath leading to the death of the sith empress and the empire's gonna be all "it's ok bro, we forgive you so come back into our ranks with our full trust and support :D" no, if the empire got their hands on him it would be a public execution on Dromund Kaas.

[Fallensouls]

Not to mention it doesn't make any sense for your original faction to take you back if you sided against them previously, especially the empire. For example an imperial agent who was a double agent for the Republic, refuses to help the Empire in KotET, and openly sides against the empire on Iokath leading to the death of the sith empress and the empire's gonna be all "it's ok bro, we forgive you so come back into our ranks with our full trust and support :D" no, if the empire got their hands on him it would be a public execution on Dromund Kaas.

 

Good point I didnt even think of that for my agent its like quadruple agent really lol. Yea they would killz me dead, if he has to go back to the Empire.

[Fallensouls]

Fair enough. But in KOTFE it is established that the GEMINI hyperwave relay station broadcasts orders across the galaxy, so I think it's fair to say it hit every droid who was part of the hive-mind. I don't believe that they ever explained how Arcann was able to control his part of the Fleet, maybe his flagship? Plot convenience? Theories aside. GEMINI 16 as I said in my original reply being the exception as she apparently cut herself off, which I would be very curious as to how but that is a discussion for another day. But you do raise an interesting point about other possible droids who have cut themselves off, makes me wonder what happened to the Eternal Fleet ship 16 was Captain of and if there are any others who did the same thing.

 

You know you make a good point here. i was thinking that must be how Scorpio originally got separated from Iokath as well.

[Ylliarus]

Me too, nice to find some one like minded about the whole Nathema rushed plot hole full story. i am not a fan of returning to the Sith vs Jedi because one it violates Star Wars Cannon. You cannot return to your previous faction because you use both sides of the force and would be viewed as a heretic. That is why Revan left, he could no longer be Sith or Jedi because he knew the force is neither dark nor light.

 

The whole reason the Sith and Jedi fight, is over who is right about which side of the force is better.

 

Also in the Eu it was not mostly about Sith vs Jedi, and the popularity of Star wars grew.

 

It does not violate "canon". Because yes, you can play through KotFE and KotET as a Force User who becomes something more than Light and Dark. However, you don't have to go down that path, you do get dialogue options and choices to say (especially in Visions in the Dark) that you remain a Jedi or Sith. When you forge your new weapon you even get the choice to dismiss either Marr or Satele instead of have them both aid you. So in my playthroughs all my characters remained Jedi or Sith, regardless of what Valkorion wanted my characters to be. In fact, he only wanted us to leave the Jedi or Sith teachings so he'd have an easier time breaking our mind, that's the only reason he encouraged us to become "something more".

 

What I do agree with however what is said here:

 

Not to mention it doesn't make any sense for your original faction to take you back if you sided against them previously, especially the empire. For example an imperial agent who was a double agent for the Republic, refuses to help the Empire in KotET, and openly sides against the empire on Iokath leading to the death of the sith empress and the empire's gonna be all "it's ok bro, we forgive you so come back into our ranks with our full trust and support :D" no, if the empire got their hands on him it would be a public execution on Dromund Kaas.

 

If you were a Sith or Imperial who sided against the Empire in Iokath, I do agree a bit that it seems odd your faction would take you back without repercussions. Vice versa for the Republic and Jedi of course. However, I do wager that it will have some form of impact in upcoming storylines. Maybe not immediately in Jedi Under Siege, but definitely in further story updates.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Fallensouls]

It does not violate "canon". Because yes, you can play through KotFE and KotET as a Force User who becomes something more than Light and Dark. However, you don't have to go down that path, you do get dialogue options and choices to say (especially in Visions in the Dark) that you remain a Jedi or Sith. When you forge your new weapon you even get the choice to dismiss either Marr or Satele instead of have them both aid you. So in my playthroughs all my characters remained Jedi or Sith, regardless of what Valkorion wanted my characters to be. In fact, he only wanted us to leave the Jedi or Sith teachings so he'd have an easier time breaking our mind, that's the only reason he encouraged us to become "something more".

 

Thats interesting because Valkorian wants you to learn to use the whole force, not just the dark or just the light. It doesnt matter who teaches you, Marr or Satele you are learning both sides of the force from either of them. Did you not listen to what Marr said that he was wrong about the nature of the force? Marr /Satele then teaches you to use the whole force.

 

Because you use the force now in a way that both the Jedi and the Sith DO NOT condone, you would be a force heretic and there fore not allowed back into either order. Most likely the Sith would try to hunt you down and kill you. The Jedi would cut you off from the force and exile you.

 

The whole chapter where you learn to use the force is about using both dark and light. You need to go back and replay it if you disagree. Because you cannot become stronger if you cant USE ALL OF THE FORCE like Revan or Valkorian. That was the whole point of that chapter.

 

It does go against the cannon George Lucas made if you go back to either faction and they just accept you.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Ylliarus]

Thats interesting because Valkorian wants you to learn to use the whole force, not just the dark or just the light. It doesnt matter who teaches you, Marr or Satele you are learning both sides of the force from either of them. Did you not listen to what Marr said that he was wrong about the nature of the force? Marr /Satele then teaches you to use the whole force.

 

Because you use the force now in a way that both the Jedi and the Sith DO NOT condone, you would be a force heretic and there fore not allowed back into either order. Most likely the Sith would try to hunt you down and kill you. The Jedi would cut you off from the force and exile you.

 

The whole chapter where you learn to use the force is about using both dark and light. You need to go back and replay it if you disagree. Because you cannot become stronger if you cant USE ALL OF THE FORCE like Revan or Valkorian. That was the whole point of that chapter.

 

It does go against the cannon George Lucas made if you go back to either faction and they just accept you.

 

Then you clearly haven't taken the dialogue options I have taken, because in the end you can tell Satele basically "nice of you and all, but I don't give a damn", in Visions of the Dark. Not literally those words but you can express that sentiment. I agree, the story does try to force the "use the entire Force" narrative on you but thankfully we do get some sort of rejection of it.

 

Everything Valkorion taught us or said to us was for one purpose only: weaken/break our mind so he could possess us. Think about it, who is easier to break: someone devoted to the Dark Side/Light Side who has made its teachings part of their identity or someone who abandoned what they believed in and have no commitment to any side. Right, the latter is the more easily breakable one.

 

Sure, Marr can claim what he wants about his vision of the Force, but we get the option to dismiss that and I believe we can even mock Marr for it after he says it. The fact that we can dismiss one of them during the weapon forging only proves that our characters get the option to say "no" to all of it, staying a Jedi or Sith.

 

Therefore, my Sith characters remained Dark Side all the way and my Jedi Light Side. At every dialogue option I had the opportunity to I made them underline that fact, that they still were Darth Nox, the Lord Wrath or the Bar'senthor, that they still were a Jedi or Sith. Those dialogue options are there to choose for those who want to.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Fallensouls]

Then you clearly haven't taken the dialogue options I have taken, because in the end you can tell Satele basically "nice of you and all, but I don't give a damn", in Visions of the Dark. Not literally those words but you can express that sentiment. I agree, the story does try to force the "use the entire Force" narrative on you but thankfully we do get some sort of rejection of it.

 

Everything Valkorion taught us or said to us was for one purpose only: weaken/break our mind so he could possess us. Think about it, who is easier to break: someone devoted to the Dark Side/Light Side who has made its teachings part of their identity or someone who abandoned what they believed in and have no commitment to any side. Right, the latter is the more easily breakable one.

 

Sure, Marr can claim what he wants about his vision of the Force, but we get the option to dismiss that and I believe we can even mock Marr for it after he says it. The fact that we can dismiss one of them during the weapon forging only proves that our characters get the option to say "no" to all of it, staying a Jedi or Sith.

 

Therefore, my Sith characters remained Dark Side all the way and my Jedi Light Side. At every dialogue option I had the opportunity to I made them underline that fact, that they still were Darth Nox, the Lord Wrath or the Bar'senthor, that they still were a Jedi or Sith. Those dialogue options are there to choose for those who want to.

 

Some spoilers if you have not played thru Kotfe you may want to skip this:

 

Wow how can you play through that whole chapter and not understand the whole point of it? Valkorian wanted you to achieve power like him other wise your body would not be what he wanted true but, it did not make you easier for him to take over. He tried to trick you into trusting him, that made it easier for him to take you over and by use of HIS power not yours. HE also wanted you to learn to use the whole force to be able to beat his son, otherwise Arcann would mop the floor with you.

 

The whole point of Marr and Satele being together was to show you that the light or darkside were one and the same. Marr basically said that, Satele basically admitted it. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO TRAINS OR HELPS YOU CRAFT A NEW WEAPON in the options. Because you learn more than just the Darkside as a sith and more than the lightside as a jedi to become more powerful to be able to fight Arcann. IF you was just more darkside as a sith you would not be able to beat Arcann. Besides you are already a master of the light or darkside when you come to be trained and Valkorian said you need MORE. You dont need more training in Darkside as a darkside user and same for lightside users. You had to have use of the whole force to defeat him that was the main point of that chapter.

I played both sides several times. You learn to use more than the darkside and that is enough for you to be labeled a heretic by the Sith and the same goes for the Jedi options.

 

Hence my point about not being able to return to your previous faction is if you use more than the lightside the jedi would not accept you back. Same goes for the Sith. IF you played KOTOR 2 the Jedi Council tried to cut you off from the force because the exile has a ability that is from the darkside. Kreia kills them saving you from the Jedi Council removing your connection to the force. So IT does matter if you use powers other than those your faction agrees with. That is part of the lore/ cannon of Star Wars.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Nefla]

Everything Valkorion taught us or said to us was for one purpose only: weaken/break our mind so he could possess us. Think about it, who is easier to break: someone devoted to the Dark Side/Light Side who has made its teachings part of their identity or someone who abandoned what they believed in and have no commitment to any side. Right, the latter is the more easily breakable one.

That wasn't how I interpreted it at all. I believe Valkorion wanted us to be as physically strong/powerful in the force/whatever as possible so he could have an ideal vessel. The training with Marr and Satele went towards that. The whole him offering you power if you let him take a little control at a time coupled with him acting like he was an ally to get you to let your guard down was the attempt to weaken your mind.

[Ylliarus]

Some spoilers if you have not played thru Kotfe you may want to skip this:

 

Wow how can you play through that whole chapter and not understand the whole point of it? Valkorian wanted you to achieve power like him other wise your body would not be what he wanted true but, it did not make you easier for him to take over. He tried to trick you into trusting him, that made it easier for him to take you over and by use of HIS power not yours. HE also wanted you to learn to use the whole force to be able to beat his son, otherwise Arcann would mop the floor with you.

 

The whole point of Marr and Satele being together was to show you that the light or darkside were one and the same. Marr basically said that, Satele basically admitted it. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO TRAINS OR HELPS YOU CRAFT A NEW WEAPON in the options. Because you learn more than just the Darkside as a sith and more than the lightside as a jedi to become more powerful to be able to fight Arcann. IF you was just more darkside as a sith you would not be able to beat Arcann. Besides you are already a master of the light or darkside when you come to be trained and Valkorian said you need MORE. You dont need more training in Darkside as a darkside user and same for lightside users. You had to have use of the whole force to defeat him that was the main point of that chapter.

I played both sides several times. You learn to use more than the darkside and that is enough for you to be labeled a heretic by the Sith and the same goes for the Jedi options.

 

Hence my point about not being able to return to your previous faction is if you use more than the lightside the jedi would not accept you back. Same goes for the Sith. IF you played KOTOR 2 the Jedi Council tried to cut you off from the force because the exile has a ability that is from the darkside. Kreia kills them saving you from the Jedi Council removing your connection to the force. So IT does matter if you use powers other than those your faction agrees with. That is part of the lore/ cannon of Star Wars.

 

Does it occur to you that it is perfectly possible for someone to interpret a specific thing differently than you AND NOT be wrong because you think they are?

 

Based on the dialogue options I picked in KotFE and KotET, the option to dismiss the entire "being taught something more" thing seems more than perfectly possible and valid to me. You get the option to dismiss Valkorion's teachings time and time again in the dialogue options, which proves the me the developers allowed for some variety in the playthrough of the story.

 

Learning about something doesn't mean you accept it. The Jedi study the Sith Code to understand their enemy so as to help them destroy them. Did the study of the Sith teachings make those Jedi Sith? Absolutely not, because they still held onto the Jedi Code. In the game we have also proof the Sith did the same. On Dromund Kaas you get the option to bring back Keleth Ur's holocron to Lord Alaric to study the enemy so as to learn how the Dark Side may triumph over the Light. Did that make any of the Sith studying their enemy for the purposes of learning how defeat them Jedi? Absolutely not.

 

The same can be applied to the Alliance Commander learning about Arcann's/Zakuul's view on the Force to learn how to defeat him. There is the option to also adopt those teachings as your own, but you also get the dialogue options to dismiss those views and remain Jedi/Sith (look it up on google and YouTube if you don't believe me, the material and proof is there).

 

I have played through Kotor 1 & 2 plus eagerly gone through most of the Legends content as well as new Canon material. The lore of Star Wars is no stranger to me and I'd appreciate it if you'd respect it that I am knowledgeable of the lore too. The fact I disagree with your view on some matters does not invalidate my knowledge of the lore of this fictional universe

[Ylliarus]

That wasn't how I interpreted it at all. I believe Valkorion wanted us to be as physically strong/powerful in the force/whatever as possible so he could have an ideal vessel. The training with Marr and Satele went towards that. The whole him offering you power if you let him take a little control at a time coupled with him acting like he was an ally to get you to let your guard down was the attempt to weaken your mind.

 

You are partially correct if you ask me. Yes, the offering of power and pretending to be your ally was part of his plot, but he also needs an empty vessel. Essence Transfer, the power Valkorion uses to travel between bodies, works on the principle of the invading entity overcoming their hosts will. The weaker the will, the easier the takeover. A subject firmly rooted in the Light Side or Dark Side has a strong will, because they strongly believe in their teachings. In order to erode such a someone's willpower one would have to break their strong alignment to either side of the Force by trying to steer them into a middle. In other words, by eroding our character's alignment to either side of the Force Valkorion tried to turn us into an empty vessel, so as to encounter as little resistance as possible in the moment he'd take over our body.

[Nefla]

You are partially correct if you ask me. Yes, the offering of power and pretending to be your ally was part of his plot, but he also needs an empty vessel. Essence Transfer, the power Valkorion uses to travel between bodies, works on the principle of the invading entity overcoming their hosts will. The weaker the will, the easier the takeover. A subject firmly rooted in the Light Side or Dark Side has a strong will, because they strongly believe in their teachings. In order to erode such a someone's willpower one would have to break their strong alignment to either side of the Force by trying to steer them into a middle. In other words, by eroding our character's alignment to either side of the Force Valkorion tried to turn us into an empty vessel, so as to encounter as little resistance as possible in the moment he'd take over our body.

 

That’s your theory at least. To me a nuanced person isn’t any more or less strong willed than a one note person. In fact I would go so far as to say zealots (someone wholly dark side or wholly light side) are often weak minded and just do and say the same things because that’s what they’re told or used to. Is mr “lol I kill all the things and people and stuff because lol killing is cool and edgy” more strong minded than someone pragmatic who weighs the pros and cons of each scenario or someone with a moral code that makes them spare innocents but crush their enemies? I just don’t find the theory that a more balanced character is weak minded and therefore easier poses to be compelling at all and if it were I would expect him to coax fully dark side characters closer to the light and vice versa to make them actually balanced.

[Ylliarus]

That’s your theory at least. To me a nuanced person isn’t any more or less strong willed than a one note person. In fact I would go so far as to say zealots (someone wholly dark side or wholly light side) are often weak minded and just do and say the same things because that’s what they’re told or used to. Is mr “lol I kill all the things and people and stuff because lol killing is cool and edgy” more strong minded than someone pragmatic who weighs the pros and cons of each scenario or someone with a moral code that makes them spare innocents but crush their enemies? I just don’t find the theory that a more balanced character is weak minded and therefore easier poses to be compelling at all and if it were I would expect him to coax fully dark side characters closer to the light and vice versa to make them actually balanced.

 

It's how the Force works in the Star Wars universe. It pushes people to either follow the Light Side or the Dark Side but a true "middle ground" is impossible. In the Plagueis novel, Plagueis speaks of a Sith who tried to unite both Light and Dark and because of it the Sith went insane because his mind couldn't endure it. I believe the Sith in question was called Darth Gravid and his Apprentice Darth Gean stopped him from destroying all the Sith lore in his madness.

 

In the Star Wars universe, if you choose neither Light nor Dark, you stand within a sort of limbo of neutrality, albeit true neutrality being impossible. So you'll still lean either a bit more to the Light or Dark. Only having a faint connection to either side of the Force makes a Force User weaker and therefore more easy to overcome by a stronger entity.

 

Because that's the entire point: Valkorion is a Dark Side entity. He isn't a being who has transcended the Dark and the Light, he is fully committed and aligned with the Dark Side. Always has been and always would be, had he survived. In order to successfully perform an Essence Transfer, he needs an empty vessel whose will would be easier to break. A Force User who is unaligned with either side of the Force is such an empty vessel, because without committing to either the Light or the Dark they can never evolve their strength in the Force and through it their willpower.

 

This guy om Youtube explains the lore surrounding the Force and how it forces all Force Users towards one side or the othet brilliantly. He also explains the failure of the Grey Jedi and how a middle road in the Force is impossible inside the Star Wars universe, by using a lot of Old Republic era lore, including Kreia's/Traya's teachings:

Edited October 21, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Fallensouls]

Does it occur to you that it is perfectly possible for someone to interpret a specific thing differently than you AND NOT be wrong because you think they are?

 

Based on the dialogue options I picked in KotFE and KotET, the option to dismiss the entire "being taught something more" thing seems more than perfectly possible and valid to me. You get the option to dismiss Valkorion's teachings time and time again in the dialogue options, which proves the me the developers allowed for some variety in the playthrough of the story.

 

Learning about something doesn't mean you accept it. The Jedi study the Sith Code to understand their enemy so as to help them destroy them. Did the study of the Sith teachings make those Jedi Sith? Absolutely not, because they still held onto the Jedi Code. In the game we have also proof the Sith did the same. On Dromund Kaas you get the option to bring back Keleth Ur's holocron to Lord Alaric to study the enemy so as to learn how the Dark Side may triumph over the Light. Did that make any of the Sith studying their enemy for the purposes of learning how defeat them Jedi? Absolutely not.

 

The same can be applied to the Alliance Commander learning about Arcann's/Zakuul's view on the Force to learn how to defeat him. There is the option to also adopt those teachings as your own, but you also get the dialogue options to dismiss those views and remain Jedi/Sith (look it up on google and YouTube if you don't believe me, the material and proof is there).

 

I have played through Kotor 1 & 2 plus eagerly gone through most of the Legends content as well as new Canon material. The lore of Star Wars is no stranger to me and I'd appreciate it if you'd respect it that I am knowledgeable of the lore too. The fact I disagree with your view on some matters does not invalidate my knowledge of the lore of this fictional universe

 

Just because YOU want your character to be a certain way for rp or whatever does not mean its like that in the game. I went back and replayed that part of the game today I am 100% correct all options you learn both sides of the force. You learn more than the dark or the light, therefore are Grey, or a force heretic. You are a Grey because one, you use both sides of the force and two neither faction would accept you, just like the Grey Jedi would not be. That is in the Star Wars cannon feel free to look it up. Revan is the prime example of a force user who used both sides of the force and was almost unbeatable because of it. The Whole KOTFE is about you taking Revans place to be the one to beat Valkorian or dont you get that?? You have to be like Revan in order to be able to do that.

 

IF you did not learn both sides you could not beat Arcann. Valkorian says that a few times all thru out the story. The Zakkuul knights use both sides of the force. How else could they defeat the Jeid and Sith so easily? Your desire for your character to be one way in the game isn't how the story goes, Im sorry but it is not.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Nefla]

It's how the Force works in the Star Wars universe. It pushes people to either follow the Light Side or the Dark Side but a true "middle ground" is impossible. In the Plagueis novel, Plagueis speaks of a Sith who tried to unite both Light and Dark and because of it the Sith went insane because his mind couldn't endure it. I believe the Sith in question was called Darth Gravid and his Apprentice Darth Gean stopped him from destroying all the Sith lore in his madness.

 

In the Star Wars universe, if you choose neither Light nor Dark, you stand within a sort of limbo of neutrality, albeit true neutrality being impossible. So you'll still lean either a bit more to the Light or Dark. Only having a faint connection to either side of the Force makes a Force User weaker and therefore more easy to overcome by a stronger entity.

 

Because that's the entire point: Valkorion is a Dark Side entity. He isn't a being who has transcended the Dark and the Light, he is fully committed and aligned with the Dark Side. Always has been and always would be, had he survived. In order to successfully perform an Essence Transfer, he needs an empty vessel whose will would be easier to break. A Force User who is unaligned with either side of the Force is such an empty vessel, because without committing to either the Light or the Dark they can never evolve their strength in the Force and through it their willpower.

 

This guy om Youtube explains the lore surrounding the Force and how it forces all Force Users towards one side or the othet brilliantly. He also explains the failure of the Grey Jedi and how a middle road in the Force is impossible inside the Star Wars universe, by using a lot of Old Republic era lore, including Kreia's/Traya's teachings:

We will have to agree to disagree.

[Ylliarus]

Just because YOU want your character to be a certain way for rp or whatever does not mean its like that in the game. I went back and replayed that part of the game today I am 100% correct all options you learn both sides of the force. You learn more than the dark or the light, therefore are Grey, or a force heretic. You are a Grey because one, you use both sides of the force and two neither faction would accept you, just like the Grey Jedi would not be. That is in the Star Wars cannon feel free to look it up. Revan is the prime example of a force user who used both sides of the force and was almost unbeatable because of it. The Whole KOTFE is about you taking Revans place to be the one to beat Valkorian or dont you get that?? You have to be like Revan in order to be able to do that.

 

IF you did not learn both sides you could not beat Arcann. Valkorian says that a few times all thru out the story. The Zakkuul knights use both sides of the force. How else could they defeat the Jeid and Sith so easily? Your desire for your character to be one way in the game isn't how the story goes, Im sorry but it is not.

 

Funny, I watched a playthrough of KotFE on Youtube where the player DID make the choices to not accept a wider view of the Force as their own and stayed Dark Side all the way, professing they're Sith any opportunity they had. So either you didn't pay close attention to all the dialogue options or something else is going on here.

 

Bioware has stated multiple times it will not force choices onto players by declaring them canon. In response to a question on Twitter about whether "Darth Imperius" is the canon name for the Sith Inquisitor, Charles Boyd explicitly stated that they would not establish a canon to such choices as that goes against their own policy of letting players make the choices they want to make in their storylines. It's why until this day we do not know who the canon ruler of the Sith is at this very moment, Acina or Vowrawn.

 

If you wish I can provide a link to the tweet in question so as to give proof to my statement.

 

Also, one very important thing to note: from beginning to end Valkorion is an unreliable narrator. He has only one goal: take over the Outlander's body. Everything he says and does cannot be trusted because his every action is to achieve that particular goal. The fact Valkorion says that you cannot defeat Arcann in any other way is nothing more but the unreliable claim of an unreliable narrator.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

Very well, I agree to disagree it's actually the beauty of Star Wars The Old Republic, that every player can shape the story their own way and no choice is invalid or "non-canon".

Edited October 22, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Fallensouls]

Funny, I watched a playthrough of KotFE on Youtube where the player DID make the choices to not accept a wider view of the Force as their own and stayed Dark Side all the way, professing they're Sith any opportunity they had. So either you didn't pay close attention to all the dialogue options or something else is going on here.

 

Bioware has stated multiple times it will not force choices onto players by declaring them canon. In response to a question on Twitter about whether "Darth Imperius" is the canon name for the Sith Inquisitor, Charles Boyd explicitly stated that they would not establish a canon to such choices as that goes against their own policy of letting players make the choices they want to make in their storylines. It's why until this day we do not know who the canon ruler of the Sith is at this very moment, Acina or Vowrawn.

 

If you wish I can provide a link to the tweet in question so as to give proof to my statement.

 

Also, one very important thing to note: from beginning to end Valkorion is an unreliable narrator. He has only one goal: take over the Outlander's body. Everything he says and does cannot be trusted because his every action is to achieve that particular goal. The fact Valkorion says that you cannot defeat Arcann in any other way is nothing more but the unreliable claim of an unreliable narrator.

 

 

 

Very well, I agree to disagree it's actually the beauty of Star Wars The Old Republic, that every player can shape the story their own way and no choice is invalid or "non-canon".

 

I have already told you more than once your choices dont matter in this chapter. Satele and Darth Marr both tell you its the will of the force you become stronger and that is why they are there to teach you. You even ask Marr why he has gone soft and ask Satele why she has gone to the darkside. SO if your a jedi and satele trains you , she is also training you in some of the darkside. Marr also leaning toward the light more, if he teaches you you also will get some light side training. The lightside or darkside choice does not mean you stay as just a jedi or just as a sith. You learn to be like Arcann and the Eternal knights to use all of the force to batlle. That does not mean you forsake your training as a jedi you just learn to use more of the force along with it. But because you do that you are not just a jedi or sith any longer you are more like the Eternal knights and JEdi view them as heretics. HEnce if you follow that, then you would also be considered a force heretic by them, even if you dont use darkside powers you are using parts of the force that the jedi teachings dont condone. The Will of the force makes your choices not matter in the end because it is your destiny to defeat the Emperor.

 

Please stop derailing my thread. If you dont have any more comments about the Nathema story and how it was aweful, or how it had serious plot holes and too many convenient plots, then move on please.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Ylliarus]

I have already told you more than once your choices dont matter in this chapter. Satele and Darth Marr both tell you its the will of the force you become stronger and that is why they are there to teach you. You even ask Marr why he has gone soft and ask Satele why she has gone to the darkside. SO if your a jedi and satele trains you , she is also training you in some of the darkside. Marr also leaning toward the light more, if he teaches you you also will get some light side training. The lightside or darkside choice does not mean you stay as just a jedi or just as a sith. You learn to be like Arcann and the Eternal knights to use all of the force to batlle. That does not mean you forsake your training as a jedi you just learn to use more of the force along with it. But because you do that you are not just a jedi or sith any longer you are more like the Eternal knights and JEdi view them as heretics. HEnce if you follow that, then you would also be considered a force heretic by them, even if you dont use darkside powers you are using parts of the force that the jedi teachings dont condone. The Will of the force makes your choices not matter in the end because it is your destiny to defeat the Emperor.

 

Please stop derailing my thread. If you dont have any more comments about the Nathema story and how it was aweful, or how it had serious plot holes and too many convenient plots, then move on please.

 

That's YOUR subjective perspective on the story, you cannot force your own personal take on the story onto anyone else. You can try to convince someone through reasonable discussion but they may have a different perspective on the story and still disagree with you. Your perspective and opinion is not the one and only truth, you have to accept that you can be wrong too. You're not infallible, neither am I or anyone else.

 

As to your request, since I have no issues regarding the Nathema Conspiracy as I quite enjoyed the story and you only seem to be interested in hearing the opinions of yes-men and yes-women, I'll indeed be moving on as I am interested in more productive discussions.

[Fallensouls]

You know I asked you nicely. yea so what i posted on the wrong one i got three of the forums threads up at once .

 

I also wanted to do more on Iokath and now they are returning to the Pubs vs SIth we may never get that resolved and get our Fleet back. So disappointing.What about all the Eternal Knights that serve you? Hows is that going to go over with the Sith or Jedi? no returning to our former factions was a bad idea. Plus the fact that you are a gray Jedi or Sith and your former faction would not take you back.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Ylliarus]

You know I just thought of a good battle ship and it would be a cool story as well. Darth Malak had Battle cruisers called Leviathan. Those were made by the Star Forge. It would be cool to find one, take it to iokath and repair it, and use that as our Flag ship.

 

You should discuss it in this thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=955268 as this thread is about the Nathema Conspiracy FP

 

Please stop derailing my thread. If you dont have any more comments about the Nathema story and how it was aweful, or how it had serious plot holes and too many convenient plots, then move on please.

[Boomysilvermoon]

Spoilers for those that have not finished this quest stop reading now:

 

 

 

This whole story line was poorly written and thought out. Theron Shan's whole story of going rouge was not fleshed out well and it has no real build up to the end.

 

But the absolute worst part is how you have them just want to give up and crawl back to the Empire or Republic? Are you kidding me?? You think America crawled back to Brittan for help after Japan blew the crap out of most of the American Fleet in Pearl Harbor? Nope, it made the Americans just want to fight that much harder and they ended up fighting 2 wars at the same time, when we took on the Germans at the same time. What the heck is up with them giving up? Zakkuul going independant ? for real? No way the Outlander would allow that because they could become a threat in the future. Again poorly written and thought out.

 

Obviously who ever wrote this does not know anything about history or politics at all. They still have Iokath technology, it would be easy for them to replace the fleet. Some body needs to hire some good writers, because BIoware story telling has gone into the trash bin lately.

 

I never thought about it that way, but it does make sense. Completely!

[Ylliarus]

No returning to our former factions was a bad idea. Plus the fact that you are a gray Jedi or Sith and your former faction would not take you back.

 

As I said before, it's nowhere said we are a gray Jedi or Sith in the story. If it's your personal subjective interpretation of it that's fine, but that doesn't make it lore or an objective fact nor can you enforce your personal subjective interpretation onto anyone else. The story can also be played while staying true to the Jedi or Sith code and teachings, I have verified this myself. The dialogue options are there.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Ylliarus