The Nathema Story Line does not make any sense at all

[Fallensouls]

You are not correct. Perhaps you need to replay Chapter V: Ascension. I just did. Ares never says anything like that. Ares intended to use the existing stun weapon to kill you, not something new or new droids. Ares even tells SCORPIO that she is flawed and he'll recycle her into something more useful. There is another aspect about Iokath that you are either forgetting or not considering. Iokath was built to house the entire population of its builders. The codex, History of Iokath: Entry 5, even states that the population is endlessly breeding. Then they're all wiped out. And all of the resources for a very large population, and all of the infrastructure needed for a very large population are all left behind for Ares to use. That explains the droids Iokath was able to produce. Not feeding off of a star.

 

It does say that, way before the stun weapon part. Ares tells you he is gathering information not only to see if you are worthy to inherit the planet but also to build droids to combat you. Maybe you did not pick the same conversation choices I did but whatever.. Because obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or are just trying to twist the facts to fit your agenda.

 

 

The old resources would have been used up by now because it has been ten of thousands of years without anyone bringing resources for the droids and weapons to be built. So how does a planet that is that old have resources to build weapons, droids and star ships? Because there is no way a surplus of anything would be left after so long a time. Droids would have needed repair or replacement , facilities would have needed repair and other structures to keep the planet running. All those resources would have been used up if they were even there to begin with.

 

The only logical conclusion is that those resources are created from the matter from the mass of the dwarf star inside it. If you cant comprehend that then, obviously you have no idea what the star forge or the foundry back stories are.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Paulsutherland]

It does say that, way before the stun weapon part. Ares tells you he is gathering information not only to see if you are worthy to inherit the planet but also to build droids to combat you. Maybe you did not pick the same conversation choices I did but whatever.. Because obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or are just trying to twist the facts to fit your agenda.

 

 

The old resources would have been used up by now because it has been ten of thousands of years without anyone bringing resources for the droids and weapons to be built. So how does a planet that is that old have resources to build weapons, droids and star ships? Because there is no way a surplus of anything would be left after so long a time. Droids would have needed repair or replacement , facilities would have needed repair and other structures to keep the planet running. All those resources would have been used up if they were even there to begin with.

 

The only logical conclusion is that those resources are created from the matter from the mass of the dwarf star inside it. If you cant comprehend that then, obviously you have no idea what the star forge or the foundry back stories are.

 

Agenda?

 

Ares could have been taking droids that have been dormant for centuries to combat the Outlander? He could also of been taking parts from other droids and updating them? Simple answer is we don't know.

 

The fleet could be as old as Iokath itself, I don't recall where it was stated but Valkorion found the Eternal Fleet, so my best guess is the fleet was inactive until Valkorion stumbled upon it. As for Iokath, who knows? It could have been on minimal power? Or all the major systems were offline as there was no need for them?

 

Resources? Maybe they had a lot of storage? :S No idea.

[ceryxp]

It does say that, way before the stun weapon part. Ares tells you he is gathering information not only to see if you are worthy to inherit the planet but also to build droids to combat you. Maybe you did not pick the same conversation choices I did but whatever.. Because obviously you don't know what you are talking about, or are just trying to twist the facts to fit your agenda.

 

I'm starting to sound like a broken record here but, you are not correct.

 

The first time you speak to ARIES he is playing the part of a glitchy information terminal. Nothing about testing you or building droids to combat you.

 

The second time you speak to ARIES is after you reunite with your crew. You speak to ARIES with Vette and he tells you about the fleet, SCORPIO, etc. Nothing about testing you or building droids to combat you.

 

The third time you speak to ARIES is during the initial cutscene for Chapter V: Ascension. You are speaking to SCORPIO when ARIES cuts in. The conversation, with each response, goes as thus.

 

[ARIES] Thank you for your participation. My examination is now complete. I intended to see if any among you were worthy of inheriting Iokath. You failed.

 

[Player Response 1] Let my people go, give us the Gravestone, and we'll call it even. I never wanted to be here anyway.

[ARIES] Nevertheless, you will remain. Permanently.

[Droids attack and ARIES cuts off]

 

[Player Response 2] It wasn't a fair test. You didn't say what you were measuring.

[ARIES] There is no reason to explain now.

[Droids attack and ARIES cuts off]

 

[Player Response 3] I'm claiming Iokath and everything on it. You can't stop me.

[ARIES] Your statement is incorrect.

[Droids attack and ARIES cuts off]

 

The next time we hear from ARIES is during a cutscene with SCORPIO that immediately follows the droid fight from the previous cutscene. This is a conversation between ARIES and SCORPIO so no player dialog options.

 

[sCORPIO] You underestimate your enemies. They are survivors.

[ARIES] I command legions.

[sCORPIO] Numbers are irrelevant.

[ARIES] Your logic circuits are corrupted, and you passed that corruption to the GEMINIs. They are as much a threat to Iokath as you. I will recycle your components into something more useful.

[ARIES shoots at SCORPIO]

[ARIES] There has been an error.

[sCORPIO] Yes. Yours. I escaped while you were distracted, but I promise we will meet again. Soon.

[The cutscene concludes with a little dialog between the player and Vette before you enter the tunnel]

 

The next cutscene involves the player and Vette finding the Colossus droid. You do speak briefly with SCORPIO, but nothing is said about ARIES building droids to combat you.

 

After defeating the Colossus droid there is a cutscene wherein your crew shows up and you decide to repair the Colossus droid while Theron remotely pilots his shuttle. Your character does say: "ARIES wants us dead. SCORPIO wants him destroyed. Vaylin's chasing her fleet. We need out of here, and going underground didn't work." Nothing about ARIES building droids to combat you. You then fight more droids.

 

After defeating the droids you rejoin your crew and take off in Theron's shuttle. SCORPIO contacts you and warns you about the shield stating that ARIES controls the shield. ARIES then cuts in and says:

 

[ARIES] Your struggles provide invaluable design feedback, but they do not change my decision. You are not worthy of inheriting Iokath. Soon you will die.

 

[Player Response 1] You keep premising that, but we're still here. Think about giving up, it's not too late.

[ARIES] Your perception of time is distorted. My creators were flawed beings, but they left a great legacy at my disposal. The weapon I used to incapacitate you is re-energizing.

 

[Player Response 2] You've lost control--and we're coming for you.

[ARIES] The odds are against you. My creators were flawed beings, but they left a great legacy at my disposal. The weapon I used to incapacitate you is re-energizing.

 

[Player Response 3] Is there anything more to you than vague threats? I think your creators killed themselves out of embarrassment.

[ARIES] My creators were flawed beings, but they left a great legacy at my disposal. The weapon I used to incapacitate you is re-energizing.

 

[Lana] The energy wave that knocked us unconscious. We have no defense against it.

[ARIES] When it fires this time, you will not wake up.

 

[Player Response 1] You abduct scores of people, then kill us for failing your test? You're a monster, ARIES.

[ARIES] I am a caretaker. This world's technology must not fall into the hands of barbaric beings. If you have any affection for your remaining companions, I recommend using these final-

 

[Player Response 2] If you could kill us with that technology, you would've done it by now.

[ARIES] The energy required to fuel the weapon takes time to harness. I began the process when Vaylin escaped her cell. If you have any affection for your remaining companions, I recommend using these final-

 

[Player Response 3] I'll destroy you, claim that weapon for myself, and conquer the galaxy with it.

[ARIES] The weapon is a part of this world. It cannot be separated. I appreciate your intentions, however. If you have any affection for your remaining companions, I recommend using these final-

 

[sCORPIO - cutting in] I have identified a design flaw in ARIES. He talks too much, and has revealed his location. We no longer require his input.

[Theron] She's transmitting coordinates.

[sCORPIO] You will find ARIES there, along with his weapon and the energy shield controls.

 

You can say one more thing to SCORPIO but it doesn't matter what you pick, she just replies with a single line then cuts off. Koth wants you to kill SCORPIO, Lana is concerned if you say that SCORPIO has no intention of leaving, but nothing about ARIES building droids to combat you. You then go to fight ARIES.

 

ARIES does say a few things as you're making your way to him.

 

[ARIES] Your attack will not delay me. This battle is pointless.

[ARIES] Capturing you for study was a mistake I must correct.

[ARIES] Whatever your allies plan at the fleet docking array, it will not succeed.

 

The next cutscene occurs when you get to the terminal inside ARIES base of operations.

 

[ARIES] I have seen this irrational, self-destructive behavior before. Ultimately, you and Vaylin are failed designs.

 

[Player Response 1 ] I am nothing like Vaylin. I'm here to save lives.

[ARIES] I find that inconsistent with your methods.

 

[Player Response 2] Don't judge us. You were built by a race that exterminated itself.

[ARIES] I see the folly of their ways. You remain blind.

 

[Player Response 3] And yet here I am, about to put an end to your reign. Not bad for a failure.

[ARIES] Still, you are unfit to inherit this world.

 

The cutscene then switches to Vaylin taking back the fleet and Theron making off with the Gravestone.

 

[ARIES] It will take decades for Iokath to recover from the destruction your kind has wrought in one day.

 

[Player Response 1] If you stop trying to kill us, we can discuss helping you rebuild.

[ARIES] Like SCORPIO, you are designed only to destroy.

 

[Player Response 2] Don't blame us for your terrible choices. We never wanted this. You brought it on yourself.

[ARIES] It was SCORPIO's need to take what is not hers.

 

[Player Response 3] Your creators appreciated a good war. If anyone deserves to rule here, it's me.

[ARIES] You are a guided missile, sent by SCORPIO.

 

That line right there, about it taking decades for Iokath to recover from the destruction we've wrought in one day, totally destroys your argument about Iokath being able to simply pop out an army of droids and a new fleet of ships.

 

The next cutscene is right around the corner.

 

[ARIES Base Computer] Weapon power at ninety percent.

[ARIES] Increase energy transfer rate.

[ARIES Base Computer] Additional increase will overload weapon capacitors.

[ARIES] You are... resilient. I believe you may be some type of virus.

 

[Player Response 1] This is your last chance to do what's right. Shut down the weapon. Let everyone go.

[ARIES] I cannot permit your infection to spread further.

 

[Player Response 2] You're just another mass-produced droid. I expected... more.

[ARIES] My form befits my function, which is to eliminate you.

 

[Players Response 3] I have endured countless insults. One compliment won't stop me from tearing you apart.

[ARIES] No praise was implied. Viruses must be eradicated.

 

The cutscene then switches to Vaylin, which includes the scene where she has the Iokath droid reset the GEMINI captain. When it switches back to the player you are given three options.

 

[Player Response 1] Forget about me, Theron. The Alliance can't lose the Gravestone.

[Theron] And I can't lose you! (That response may be specific to a romanced Theron)

[ARIES] Overload weapon capacitors! Fire at will!

 

[Player Response 2] Vaylin has the right idea. The Gravestone can destroy the weapon before it fires!

[ARIES] It is too late for that. Overload weapon capacitors! Fire at will!

 

[Player Response 3] You heard him. Prepare to die.

[ARIES] Overload weapon capacitors! Fire at will!

 

[ARIES Base Computer] Acknowledged.

 

Now, ARIES does make some taunts during the fight, but never says anything about building droids to combat you. At this point, ARIES is dead (well, after SCORPIO gives it a shot). ARIES died and never said anything about building droids to combat you. There were no conversation choices that you chose that I didn't. I backed out of every cutscene and took every choice then transcribed them here.

 

You are not correct.

[ceryxp]

I had no intention at the outset of derailing this thread with a series of posts debunking the OP's claims. Unfortunately, so much of what the OP has claimed is wildly incorrect. Even when presented with evidence that refutes their claims they refuse to address their mistakes or alter their position. I had originally intended to discuss my hypotheses about Theron's motivations, plot holes, and why the Commander has to choose a side. In brief, I believe that Theron is motivated to take the course that he did due to Saresh's attempt on your life and attempted coup. He is a spy and hates when he fails. I believe that he views Saresh's coup attempt as a failure on his part. Many of the holes in the plot are, I think, due to the truncation the story received more so than poor writing. The why of the Commander choosing one faction or the other is explained in game through codex entries. The Alliance is still a force to be reckoned with, a force that can mean a shift in the tide depending on which faction the Commander chooses to support, but the Alliance is not a force that can withstand the full assault from either one of those two factions without the aid of the other. Without allying with either the Republic or the Empire it would not be long before one faction decided that Odessen would be a good place to annex. Thus, the Commander has no choice. They must ally with one side or the other or be crushed in between them. Edited September 17, 2018 by ceryxp

[devilkat]

Iokath can create droids as fast as the Foundry yes, and if that is the case I dont see why it would not work for ships too.

 

I dont see why Bioware doesnt create another faction that is stronger than all three, and make that the real threat of the Galaxy and they could be like the Rakata darkside users whose tech runs off the darkside. OR bring Darth Malgus back, who has found the secret to Valkorians power of draining worlds and intends to do the same. There are so many possibilities. FYI Bioware Im for hire since your current writers suck for ideas.

 

I'm not sure they suck. The traitor arc felt incomplete, not bad. It was like they had to cut out massive chunks to get it to fit in the budget that EA gave them. If EA would loosen the purse strings a bit, then we'd see good, complete stories again. I hate seeing some of my favorite characters become the victims of a bunch of pencil pushing cheapskates....

[Fallensouls]

I'm not sure they suck. The traitor arc felt incomplete, not bad. It was like they had to cut out massive chunks to get it to fit in the budget that EA gave them. If EA would loosen the purse strings a bit, then we'd see good, complete stories again. I hate seeing some of my favorite characters become the victims of a bunch of pencil pushing cheapskates....

 

I agree totally with what you said. Suck is probably too strong of a word, The Eternal Throne story line was the best they had done Since the Revan stuff, and this Nathema story feels really rushed with huge plot holes and just too convenient things added to the story. For example: The Gravestone barely could get one shot much less 2 before its systems shut down because the ship obviously was left in the swamps for thousand years. But amazingly Zilrog can make it shoot multiple times with out anything breaking? And before each shot could destroy maybe a half dozen to a dozen ships but Zilrog makes it destroys hundreds a shot.When writers do this kinda stuff its really annoying to the fans.

 

Then conveniently the troops want to run back to their previous factions because your two biggest weapons are lost.

 

Just too much convenient plots, too soon, and not really good for the story. Honestly if they keep writing like this, I dread the story line from the new expansion.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Fallensouls

[FlameYOL]

I agree totally with what you said. Suck is probably too strong of a word, The Eternal Throne story line was the best they had done Since the Revan stuff, and this Nathema story feels really rushed with huge plot holes and just too convenient things added to the story. For example: The Gravestone barely could get one shot much less 2 before its systems shut down because the ship obviously was left in the swamps for thousand years. But amazingly Zilrog can make it shoot multiple times with out anything breaking? And before each shot could destroy maybe a half dozen to a dozen ships but Zilrog makes it destroys hundreds a shot.When writers do this kinda stuff its really annoying to the fans.

 

Don't forget you pick up upgrades for the Gravestone on your short time during Iokath. It's the only reason the Gravestone was able to bypass the blockade the Eternal Fleet had over Zakuul.

[Paulsutherland]

Don't forget you pick up upgrades for the Gravestone on your short time during Iokath. It's the only reason the Gravestone was able to bypass the blockade the Eternal Fleet had over Zakuul.

 

But it didn't? It engaged the fleet over Zakuul ... only the escape pod managed to bypass the fleet.

[FlameYOL]

But it didn't? It engaged the fleet over Zakuul ... only the escape pod managed to bypass the fleet.

 

Which wouldn't have been possible had the gravestone not been able to bypass the Fleet.

[Paulsutherland]

Which wouldn't have been possible had the gravestone not been able to bypass the Fleet.

 

Meh, I'll tae my chances with the pod.

 

Lol that hammerhead got torn to shreds rather quickly.

[Hevell]

The Alliance was the third force, affect the fate of the galaxy, and it was over ... what? We offer all dissolve and go back to the Empire or Republic? Nonsense.

I hope that in 5.10, we make a alliance with someone and restore Alliance. Or in 5.11. Or 5.12.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Hevell

[FlameYOL]

The Alliance was the third force, affect the fate of the galaxy, and it was over ... what? We offer all dissolve and go back to the Empire or Republic? Nonsense.

I hope that in 5.10, we make a alliance with someone and restore Alliance. Or in 5.11. Or 5.12.

 

The Eternal Alliance isn't dissolved yet. You're still the leader of your own faction. It seems you'll merely ally with someone else to take down a common enemy. Unless 5.10 has the Alliance properly dissolved we're still safe.

[Hevell]

The Eternal Alliance isn't dissolved yet. You're still the leader of your own faction. It seems you'll merely ally with someone else to take down a common enemy.

Well, let's hope.

[Swingkittie]

This is just my personal opinion, but in part why the story line has so many plot holes is because they had to make it fit in a certain time frame (project budgets probably had a big part in this). So they took what they felt was most important to the story and went with it. And for the majority of players, it was getting Theron back home or resolving his part in all of this. We don't know if there was more script. The writers could have written a fully fleshed out story only to have it chopped. That happens a lot in games, movies, etc.

[FlameYOL]

This is just my personal opinion, but in part why the story line has so many plot holes is because they had to make it fit in a certain time frame (project budgets probably had a big part in this). So they took what they felt was most important to the story and went with it. And for the majority of players, it was getting Theron back home or resolving his part in all of this. We don't know if there was more script. The writers could have written a fully fleshed out story only to have it chopped. That happens a lot in games, movies, etc.

 

I agree completely, time and budget were the biggest issues here IMO. If they had reserved the story for an expansion it would've allowed for more screen time to be given to Theron, Vinn and even GEMINI-16. But it would also mean dragging the plot along until the expansion which would've likely meant us having to wait even longer to resolve Theron's arc.

[lawfig]

You can chose Republic or Empire-- or lay low with the Alliance. I chose to believe the last option means the alliance still exists... and is a power in it's own right. That said, I've chose empire on some republic on some and alliance on some. We will see if it even matters.

 

Spoilers for those that have not finished this quest stop reading now:

 

You can chose Republic or Empire-- or lay low with the Alliance. I chose to believe the last option means the alliance still exists... and is a power in it's own right. That said, I've chose empire on some republic on some and alliance on some. We will see if it even matters.

 

 

This whole story line was poorly written and thought out. Theron Shan's whole story of going rouge was not fleshed out well and it has no real build up to the end.

 

But the absolute worst part is how you have them just want to give up and crawl back to the Empire or Republic? Are you kidding me?? You think America crawled back to Brittan for help after Japan blew the crap out of most of the American Fleet in Pearl Harbor? Nope, it made the Americans just want to fight that much harder and they ended up fighting 2 wars at the same time, when we took on the Germans at the same time. What the heck is up with them giving up? Zakkuul going independant ? for real? No way the Outlander would allow that because they could become a threat in the future. Again poorly written and thought out.

 

Obviously who ever wrote this does not know anything about history or politics at all. They still have Iokath technology, it would be easy for them to replace the fleet. Some body needs to hire some good writers, because BIoware story telling has gone into the trash bin lately.

[Nefla]

I'm sure they did it because of how many people complained that they hated the alliance and wanted to go back to classic Republic vs Empire. What bothers me are:

 

1) It's never explained how the Gemini droid watches us and it makes no sense

2) The villain's motivation makes no sense for certain characters. Whether you played an evil emperor type character who oppressed the people of Zakuul, let the sun generator thing blow a bunch of them up, and then blow more of them up with Kaliyo later, and give them no help or whether you were completely LS, saved everyone you could, sent help to Zakuul, etc...the villain acts like you devastated Zakuul beyond all imagining and that people are starving and dying in the street. You can even play a character who had no hand in any of the destruction: if Arcann kills Valkorion instead of you, if you save all the civilians you can, if you refuse the throne, and if you send help and supplies to Zakuul. The only thing you can say that might be that PC's fault is killing Vaylin which causes the fleet to go nuts but you're also the one to stop it and Vaylin had been killing tons of people before that and she's the one who comes to you and attacks you. Vinn Atruis still acts like you're this monster that destroyed everything.

[FlameYOL]

I'm sure they did it because of how many people complained that they hated the alliance and wanted to go back to classic Republic vs Empire. What bothers me are:

 

1) It's never explained how the Gemini droid watches us and it makes no sense

2) The villain's motivation makes no sense for certain characters. Whether you played an evil emperor type character who oppressed the people of Zakuul, let the sun generator thing blow a bunch of them up, and then blow more of them up with Kaliyo later, and give them no help or whether you were completely LS, saved everyone you could, sent help to Zakuul, etc...the villain acts like you devastated Zakuul beyond all imagining and that people are starving and dying in the street. You can even play a character who had no hand in any of the destruction: if Arcann kills Valkorion instead of you, if you save all the civilians you can, if you refuse the throne, and if you send help and supplies to Zakuul. The only thing you can say that might be that PC's fault is killing Vaylin which causes the fleet to go nuts but you're also the one to stop it and Vaylin had been killing tons of people before that and she's the one who comes to you and attacks you. Vinn Atruis still acts like you're this monster that destroyed everything.

 

I agree with the first, I would really like an explanation as to how GEMINI-16 was able to spy on all of the Alliance at once without anybody in the Alliance knowing besides Theron Shan.

As for... you are the monster for him, he's very stuck on what Zakuul was in the past. For him Valkorion was the greatest thing to ever happen to the galaxy and you, the outlander, ruined all of that. He worships Zakuul and saw that era as their golden age, even if the Outlander helps Zakuul you are still taking them out of that position of power and perfection Valkorion had left them. So Vinn Atrius is stuck on the golden age of Zakuul, and completely blames the Alliance while ignoring Zakuul's role in its own downfall.

[Nefla]

I agree with the first, I would really like an explanation as to how GEMINI-16 was able to spy on all of the Alliance at once without anybody in the Alliance knowing besides Theron Shan.

As for... you are the monster for him, he's very stuck on what Zakuul was in the past. For him Valkorion was the greatest thing to ever happen to the galaxy and you, the outlander, ruined all of that. He worships Zakuul and saw that era as their golden age, even if the Outlander helps Zakuul you are still taking them out of that position of power and perfection Valkorion had left them. So Vinn Atrius is stuck on the golden age of Zakuul, and completely blames the Alliance while ignoring Zakuul's role in its own downfall.

 

His attitude towards you doesn't make sense if you decided to bow to Valkorion and Arcann was the one who killed him, and he and his sister orchestrated the of Zakuul through their murderous insanity and totalitarian regime. Also the "I watched starving children fight over a discarded ration and couldn't do anything about it" doesn't make sense for a peacekeeper outlander either. You literally have the choice of giving Zakuul everything they ask for and need, people wouldn't be scrabbling for scraps in the street in that scenario. I just don't like that the game lumps every character together. I think Vinn Atrius is a poor quality villain and is just kind of crazy and evil which isn't interesting to me. He even kills that Nautolan woman that was "the lady of sorrows" assistant despite her allying with him and despite him acting like he sympathizes with her (unlike the other two). The only good thing about him is his hair which I immediately stole lol.

[FlameYOL]

His attitude towards you doesn't make sense if you decided to bow to Valkorion and Arcann was the one who killed him, and he and his sister orchestrated the of Zakuul through their murderous insanity and totalitarian regime. Also the "I watched starving children fight over a discarded ration and couldn't do anything about it" doesn't make sense for a peacekeeper outlander either. You literally have the choice of giving Zakuul everything they ask for and need, people wouldn't be scrabbling for scraps in the street in that scenario. I just don't like that the game lumps every character together. I think Vinn Atrius is a poor quality villain and is just kind of crazy and evil which isn't interesting to me. He even kills that Nautolan woman that was "the lady of sorrows" assistant despite her allying with him and despite him acting like he sympathizes with her (unlike the other two). The only good thing about him is his hair which I immediately stole lol.

 

Vinn Atrius doesn't know that, remember even if you bowed to Valkorion and Arcann was the one who killed him Arcan still claims you were the one who killed Valkorion, Vinn wouldn't believe you even if you told him the truth. It makes sense because regardless of whether or not you're the peacekeeper of the galaxy the galaxy is still going through a resource crisis. I disagree, I think Vinn is kind of interesting, I think it's sad there wasn't more time to develop him as I like the idea of a Zakuulan searching for revenge against the Alliance. He lets Zildrog consume everyone in order to attain his goal, he's blinded by revenge and that is beautifully tragic, again more time to develop him would've been wonderful. We're in agreement there, his hair is pretty good, I also think his armor set is really beautiful.

Edited September 29, 2018 by FlameYOL

[OldVengeance]

I initially thought that his comment about children fighting over rations didn't make sense for Peacekeeper Outlanders, either. But then I thought about it more and realized he's not comparing Zakuul now to Zakuul under Arcann and Vaylin, he's comparing Zakuul now to the the Zakuul under Valkorion.

 

Even though the Peacekeeper Outlander is doing their best to heal the galaxy, Zakuul was still devastated by the war.

[FlameYOL]

I initially thought that his comment about children fighting over rations didn't make sense for Peacekeeper Outlanders, either. But then I thought about it more and realized he's not comparing Zakuul now to Zakuul under Arcann and Vaylin, he's comparing Zakuul now to the the Zakuul under Valkorion.

 

Even though the Peacekeeper Outlander is doing their best to heal the galaxy, Zakuul was still devastated by the war.

 

Pretty much.

really settles it.

[Nefla]

I initially thought that his comment about children fighting over rations didn't make sense for Peacekeeper Outlanders, either. But then I thought about it more and realized he's not comparing Zakuul now to Zakuul under Arcann and Vaylin, he's comparing Zakuul now to the the Zakuul under Valkorion.

Even though the Peacekeeper Outlander is doing their best to heal the galaxy, Zakuul was still devastated by the war.

But why would children be starving on the street on Zakuul if Zakuul is being sent everything they need or ask for in aid? Maybe it's just me, but the damage to Zakuul from the Eternal Fleet going haywire after Vaylin's death looked superficial and pretty concentrated. Like we see streetlights and potted plants knocked over, small fires and random debris but it's not like we see whole buildings or city sectors destroyed, we don't see the upper city levels collapse and crush the "old world" below and so on and then the Outlander was the one to stop the destruction. Also Zakuul under Valkorion was the one who started the war by sending the twins out to randomly kill and burn Imperial and Republic outposts unprovoked. If my king decided to randomly start a war for no reason, the people he was killing retaliated and killed him right back, and my king's rightful heir stepped up and took the throne and became a tyrant to his own people and the galaxy, how could I logically blame anyone except my king who started it all? Sure, times used to be good under him but the cheese clearly slid off the cracker when he started attacking other nations unprovoked (not to mention raising 2 kids to be complete psychos) and the society he had once blessed had to bear the consequences.

 

Vinn Atrius doesn't know that, remember even if you bowed to Valkorion and Arcann was the one who killed him Arcan still claims you were the one who killed Valkorion, Vinn wouldn't believe you even if you told him the truth. It makes sense because regardless of whether or not you're the peacekeeper of the galaxy the galaxy is still going through a resource crisis. I disagree, I think Vinn is kind of interesting, I think it's sad there wasn't more time to develop him as I like the idea of a Zakuulan searching for revenge against the Alliance. He lets Zildrog consume everyone in order to attain his goal, he's blinded by revenge and that is beautifully tragic, again more time to develop him would've been wonderful. We're in agreement there, his hair is pretty good, I also think his armor set is really beautiful.

True that Arcann lied about it. It's just very hard for me to believe that he thought Zakuul was sitting there minding its own business and being peaceful and wonderful and then the outlander came in unprovoked and ruined everything and that if the outlander had never shown up, Zakuul would have been a "paradise" forever. I mean, outlander or no outlander, Arcann was the heir to the throne and even though he lied and blamed the outlander for Valkorion's death, it's clear to anyone and everyone that he was a murderous tyrant. Is it so much of a stretch to believe that the guy who killed his own twin brother, and who became a tyrant after his ascension would never have had any plans of murdering his father? Or that if Valkorion died some other way, Arcann wouldn't have stepped up and become just as much of a murderous dictator as he ended up becoming? Not to mention, Valkorion had his sons and their forces randomly go around raiding and killing people from the Republic and Empire, did he really think the victims would or should just go "that's fine, keep killing us for no reason"? Valkorion provoked the Republic and Empire (not even going to mention any of the Vitiate stuff, since he'd be even less likely to believe it than Koth was) and there were consequences.

 

Vinn Atrius' logic is that of a child IMO and I just have to roll my eyes at him. His "revenge" fell flat to me since we never met him or interacted with him before, and the one thing he says that could be compelling (about children starving on the street) made no sense with LS peacekeepers who were sending all the supplies needed. I honestly don't think people would be starving on the street. Plus I couldn't help but think "what do you mean you couldn't do anything? You have this fancy armor and weapons and the resources to form this secretive organization but you can't be bothered to throw the kids a sandwich, lazy?" Plus, instead of using his time and skill and resources to help his people rebuild he throws a tantrum and tries to kill the person sending them aid and likely protecting them from reprisals from the Empire and Republic who suffered greatly under Zakuul and would love some revenge. So logic, much deep, wow.

 

What would have been cool to me is if the villain for the traitor arc was different depending on your actions (instead of having the one special scene with a character from your past). Maybe if you spared Arcann, the villain would be someone like that Nautolan woman who's world was bombed by Arcann and got no justice, and if you killed Arcann it would be someone else with a different motivation maybe like 2 or 3 different people. It's not like Vinn Atrius had a ton of lines anyway, I don't think it would be TOO outlandish to wish for.

 

I agree that his armor is pretty and hey it has no hood (I hate hoods since they make you bald lol). <3

[FlameYOL]

True that Arcann lied about it. It's just very hard for me to believe that he thought Zakuul was sitting there minding its own business and being peaceful and wonderful and then the outlander came in unprovoked and ruined everything and that if the outlander had never shown up, Zakuul would have been a "paradise" forever. I mean, outlander or no outlander, Arcann was the heir to the throne and even though he lied and blamed the outlander for Valkorion's death, it's clear to anyone and everyone that he was a murderous tyrant. Is it so much of a stretch to believe that the guy who killed his own twin brother, and who became a tyrant after his ascension would never have had any plans of murdering his father? Or that if Valkorion died some other way, Arcann wouldn't have stepped up and become just as much of a murderous dictator as he ended up becoming? Not to mention, Valkorion had his sons and their forces randomly go around raiding and killing people from the Republic and Empire, did he really think the victims would or should just go "that's fine, keep killing us for no reason"? Valkorion provoked the Republic and Empire (not even going to mention any of the Vitiate stuff, since he'd be even less likely to believe it than Koth was) and there were consequences.

 

Vinn Atrius' logic is that of a child IMO and I just have to roll my eyes at him. His "revenge" fell flat to me since we never met him or interacted with him before, and the one thing he says that could be compelling (about children starving on the street) made no sense with LS peacekeepers who were sending all the supplies needed. I honestly don't think people would be starving on the street. Plus I couldn't help but think "what do you mean you couldn't do anything? You have this fancy armor and weapons and the resources to form this secretive organization but you can't be bothered to throw the kids a sandwich, lazy?" Plus, instead of using his time and skill and resources to help his people rebuild he throws a tantrum and tries to kill the person sending them aid and likely protecting them from reprisals from the Empire and Republic who suffered greatly under Zakuul and would love some revenge. So logic, much deep, wow.

 

What would have been cool to me is if the villain for the traitor arc was different depending on your actions (instead of having the one special scene with a character from your past). Maybe if you spared Arcann, the villain would be someone like that Nautolan woman who's world was bombed by Arcann and got no justice, and if you killed Arcann it would be someone else with a different motivation maybe like 2 or 3 different people. It's not like Vinn Atrius had a ton of lines anyway, I don't think it would be TOO outlandish to wish for.

 

I agree that his armor is pretty and hey it has no hood (I hate hoods since they make you bald lol). <3

 

I don't understand your point there. The point is for them the Outlander is evil because he is the one who caused their downfall, Vinn especially sees you as the reason. Is it logical? No, but they weren't made to be. Tenebrae built a society that worshiped him as a god so it's not that much of a stretch to assume most Zakuulans would see his reign as the golden age and foolish believe it would've never ended had the outlander allegedly not killed Valkorion.

 

I do agree seeing something from Vinn before would've been nice but his characterization is fine. His plan isn't mean to be driven by logic, it's driven by revenge, a blind lust for revenge and foolish naivety that if the Alliance goes away everything will be right again. Which is clearly not the case, but while we might see it as such, Vinn Atrius doesn't and is unfortunately unable to be reasoned with.

 

I think at best adapt Vinn's line to fit a LS Peacekeeper better, I think what they could've done is adapt lines about both alignments, perhaps even a reference to the Outlander's choice at Iokath. Regardless if we're talking pipe dreams though, ideally I would've kept Vinn Atrius. However I would have a 2-part short story releasing before Nathema to familiarize ourselves with the character, the Order of ZIldrog and explain how GEMINI-16 manages to spy all of the Eternal Alliance at once. Perhaps if LucasFilm allowed even a short comic books series covering the Order of Zildrog up until the point where they find Zildrog and the Outlander invades their "sanctuary".

[OldVengeance]

But why would children be starving on the street on Zakuul if Zakuul is being sent everything they need or ask for in aid? Maybe it's just me, but the damage to Zakuul from the Eternal Fleet going haywire after Vaylin's death looked superficial and pretty concentrated. Like we see streetlights and potted plants knocked over, small fires and random debris but it's not like we see whole buildings or city sectors destroyed, we don't see the upper city levels collapse and crush the "old world" below and so on and then the Outlander was the one to stop the destruction. Also Zakuul under Valkorion was the one who started the war by sending the twins out to randomly kill and burn Imperial and Republic outposts unprovoked. If my king decided to randomly start a war for no reason, the people he was killing retaliated and killed him right back, and my king's rightful heir stepped up and took the throne and became a tyrant to his own people and the galaxy, how could I logically blame anyone except my king who started it all? Sure, times used to be good under him but the cheese clearly slid off the cracker when he started attacking other nations unprovoked (not to mention raising 2 kids to be complete psychos) and the society he had once blessed had to bear the consequences.

 

I think the implication is simply that it still wasn't enough. Or at least it wasn't enough to fix feed everyone right away. We didn't see the full extent of the devastation over the entire planet.

 

And yes, you're right about Valkorion starting the war, but the people of Zakuul don't know that. As far as they know, an Outlander showed up, killed Valkorion and then Arcann went to war in revenge. Most people don't seem to be aware that Arcann and Thexan raided the Republic and Empire before the war. Nor do they know his true origins or his cruelty towards his kids. Koth even makes a point of saying that Valkorion wasn't interested in waging war. Most Zakuulans probably still see Valkorion as a peaceful ruler.