How to improve Conquest

[AlainaFlute]

There is seriously a lot of whining going on in this thread! Seriously, shut it! If you want to be competitive then grow your guild. A small guild should not be able to win at conquest. The very word by definition implies that an army has taken over a country, or in this case a planet, by force. An army. Not an army of one, but an ARMY of many people. The big guilds that form alliances are just being smart and tactical and there's nothing wrong with that. This happens all the time in the real world. And I'd wager that if you grow your guild and start being competitive against them, they'd probably offer an alliance with you and bring you into the fold. But if you want to stay a small guild, then learn to accept the consequences of your decision.

[DaemionMoadrin]

There is seriously a lot of whining going on in this thread! Seriously, shut it! If you want to be competitive then grow your guild. A small guild should not be able to win at conquest. The very word by definition implies that an army has taken over a country, or in this case a planet, by force. An army. Not an army of one, but an ARMY of many people. The big guilds that form alliances are just being smart and tactical and there's nothing wrong with that. This happens all the time in the real world. And I'd wager that if you grow your guild and start being competitive against them, they'd probably offer an alliance with you and bring you into the fold. But if you want to stay a small guild, then learn to accept the consequences of your decision.

 

This is a game. It's not even a realistic game. Don't try to apply RL logic or we can discuss the nonsense of having 50+ guilds trying to invade high profile targets like Hoth, a planet that has no economic, cultural, strategic or tactical value beyond a scrapyard (which got picked clean of anything important during our class quests).

Against who exactly do you think you're fighting during the invasion? The Wampas? It's certainly not the other guilds.

How does the invasion work exactly when the guilds compete with each other but neither cooperate with or attack each other?

In short, invasions don't make sense.

 

And they don't have to. They are a game mechanic, nothing else. Aside from the titles and achievements, the purpose of the conquest system is to keep the players engaged in all the content the game has to offer.

Which means conquest needs to be attractive and fun for the majority of players, not just for a few select guilds. If you bar the access to conquest, you also remove reasons and motivation for players to engage in content and that in turn means less active players.

 

It is in the best interest for everyone to make conquest as accessible as possible, to reach the highest possible amount of players. There's little point in just making it a perk for the 3 largest guilds on the server which, despite having a massive amount of members, don't represent the majority.

 

Also, you're welcome to try to grow a large guild when the server population is decreasing and most people simply go the easy route of joining up with an existing guild. There's basically nothing you can offer that all the others aren't offering, too. (Not that I want to be in or lead a large guild again, done that for 15+ years and now that's enough.)

 

The fact that the large guilds dominate this aspect of the game isn't even the biggest issue and I feel we're getting side tracked here. It would be different if this was a part of PvP, of a guild vs. guild scenario where you actually compete against each other, where you use your guildships, resources etc. to occupy a planet held by another guild... but it is not so, so let's treat it simply as the mechanic that it is.

 

It would already help a great deal if conquest was more alt friendly, see my original post starting with 3.

[Sundown]

My other point seems fairly unpopular which was they need to fix exploits like repeatable rampage quests that are done non-stop. It's utterly ridiculous.

I have a completely opposite view here. This bug makes it so that dedicated players can score many points. So a small band of dedicated players can beat the large number of not-so dedicated ones.

 

It is actually pretty simple. The more one-time per legacy quests you put in, the more the bigger guilds with lots of individual accounts benefit.

Same goes for daily quests per account, just that missing out on a task a day might make a difference, so at least a small measure of dedication comes into play.

 

If you try to add systems where number of players in a guild count, you will only force the larger guilds to create dedicated conquest divisions, where only the most active ones get in and again: the casual guild is screwed.

 

Face it: you can‘t make it an even ground, and the best way to at least mitigate the impact of pure size is to have as many repeatable tasks as possible.

 

Then again: I don‘t get the fuzz anyway. It is only the titles. Not more.

 

One idea might be to tie the achievement to a guild target threshold depending on the size. For example x points per account farmed, or y accounts managed to finish all quests or anything like that.

[Khaleg]

I have a completely opposite view here. This bug makes it so that dedicated players can score many points. So a small band of dedicated players can beat the large number of not-so dedicated ones.

 

It is actually pretty simple. The more one-time per legacy quests you put in, the more the bigger guilds with lots of individual accounts benefit.

Same goes for daily quests per account, just that missing out on a task a day might make a difference, so at least a small measure of dedication comes into play.

 

If you try to add systems where number of players in a guild count, you will only force the larger guilds to create dedicated conquest divisions, where only the most active ones get in and again: the casual guild is screwed.

 

Face it: you can‘t make it an even ground, and the best way to at least mitigate the impact of pure size is to have as many repeatable tasks as possible.

 

Then again: I don‘t get the fuzz anyway. It is only the titles. Not more.

 

One idea might be to tie the achievement to a guild target threshold depending on the size. For example x points per account farmed, or y accounts managed to finish all quests or anything like that.

 

I disagree here.

I will put it this way lol:

A guild which has more no lifers willing to do deadly stupid, boring and repetive stuff over and over gets a chance to win but will still never win against an at least somewhat committed bigger conquest guild.

But should any studio support and/or force players to do stupid repetitive content at all? I think not, especially regarding the long time effects on our beloved game. To allow this is a negative impact on this game in general. It's not gameplay, it's just a "switch your brain off and still be bored" thing.

Gameplay should be exciting and interesting and not killing x mobs, rinse and repeat. That should not be the intention of a guild competition like conquest is.

AND besides that, of course this is by defintion an exploit and not intended at all.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Khaleg

[Khaleg]

This is a game. It's not even a realistic game. Don't try to apply RL logic or we can discuss the nonsense of having 50+ guilds trying to invade high profile targets like Hoth, a planet that has no economic, cultural, strategic or tactical value beyond a scrapyard (which got picked clean of anything important during our class quests).

Against who exactly do you think you're fighting during the invasion? The Wampas? It's certainly not the other guilds.

How does the invasion work exactly when the guilds compete with each other but neither cooperate with or attack each other?

In short, invasions don't make sense.

 

And they don't have to. They are a game mechanic, nothing else. Aside from the titles and achievements, the purpose of the conquest system is to keep the players engaged in all the content the game has to offer.

Which means conquest needs to be attractive and fun for the majority of players, not just for a few select guilds. If you bar the access to conquest, you also remove reasons and motivation for players to engage in content and that in turn means less active players.

 

It is in the best interest for everyone to make conquest as accessible as possible, to reach the highest possible amount of players. There's little point in just making it a perk for the 3 largest guilds on the server which, despite having a massive amount of members, don't represent the majority.

 

Also, you're welcome to try to grow a large guild when the server population is decreasing and most people simply go the easy route of joining up with an existing guild. There's basically nothing you can offer that all the others aren't offering, too. (Not that I want to be in or lead a large guild again, done that for 15+ years and now that's enough.)

 

The fact that the large guilds dominate this aspect of the game isn't even the biggest issue and I feel we're getting side tracked here. It would be different if this was a part of PvP, of a guild vs. guild scenario where you actually compete against each other, where you use your guildships, resources etc. to occupy a planet held by another guild... but it is not so, so let's treat it simply as the mechanic that it is.

 

It would already help a great deal if conquest was more alt friendly, see my original post starting with 3.

 

Applying RL logic to a game, especially in such an obvious case is, you know what? Logic! lol, and having said that the ONLY logical and acceptable approach here. Your attempt to distract from hard facts with that lame Hoth comparison and that it is a fantasy game in general has no business here, is outstanding dishonest and a poor and easy to discover attempt to make a case for your point, which is getting it all without going through the effort others make.

In other words, you have not ONE any sensemaking and valid point to deliver, yet you can't stop it.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Khaleg

[UlaVii]

Would it help if I listed all the other large guilds? Or does it make more sense to point at the one hogging the small planets every week?

we have taken 16 first places [since the new system was in place] and only 5 of those were small yield targets, some of which we have not invaded since 2017

5 out of 16 is not "every week".

 

That you screw over everyone else in the process is something you have to live with.

I live very well with bringing victory for my guild members. Perhaps if you spent as much time focused on leading your own guild as you do blaming other people's then you could say the same. You spend all this time crying over an achievement and title you think you deserve when the primary ways you want to earn them are to have BW step in and punish your competition for you.

 

I've done as much as I can via forum posts, live stream messages, private mails and in-game initiatives to unite players such as when my own guild created the two alliance guilds and stopped our own invasion. What have you done to help any guilds except your own?

 

What do you mean, get excluded? Everyone can form an alliance, with anyone else. One alliance is full or whatever, create the next one...

This is a clear example of why you are so short sighted. If you need it explaining to you then it is pointless as you will not understand the simple logic although based on your attitude I have a feeling you will reap what you sow.

 

the difference is that what I propose is a possible solution and an upgrade to the existing system, what the poster complained about was backroom dealings between the large guilds to avoid competing against each other.

Definition: Alliance

a group of countries, political parties, or people who have agreed to work together because of shared interests or aims

For the record, my guild has no agreements with other guilds big or small. On our old server I did used to steer our ship around certain planets that I knew my friend's smaller guilds wanted but now they all focus on different aspects of the game so it's unnecessary.

 

You talk about fairness and yet despite name dropping my guild so many times in your replies and calling for us to be punished you have still not stated your own guild's name.

Edited July 28, 2018 by UlaVii

[Lhancelot]

Face it: you can‘t make it an even ground, and the best way to at least mitigate the impact of pure size is to have as many repeatable tasks as possible.

 

The missing component is the fact the zerg guilds also have people that do the broken repeatable rampages too.

 

The tiny guild isn't going to compete with a guild that has 900 members that also so happens to have 10-15 of these types of players who spend their time doing nothing but the broken repeatables.

 

I understand your logic and point, but it only makes sense if you think only the tiny guild has these dedicated exploiters doing the rampage repeatables. They do not.

 

I do agree though, if the devs want to include repeatables as I said before they need to make them legit and not allow this broken exploit to continue.

 

 

 

 

I live very well with bringing victory for my guild members. Perhaps if you spent as much time focused on leading your own guild as you do blaming other people's then you could say the same. You spend all this time crying over an achievement and title you think you deserve when the primary ways you want to earn them are to have BW step in and punish your competition for you.

 

You are very condescending to others here, and it reminds me of zerg raid guilds on other games that control all the top raid mobs through their immense size and nothing else.

 

That's all conquest guilds do, the largest ones win, and unlike raiding guilds on other games this form of "competition" literally requires zero skill here.

 

"Bringing victory" for your guild members? Come on.

 

We all know when people are not exploiting rampage quests many of the guild members accrue points simply doing solo activities. Meaning, no one is directing any guilds to a victory. All it takes is having an immense guild roster with active players.

 

You are humiliating and disrespecting smaller guild people with an attitude of being so much more accomplished than them when in reality the accomplishments you boast about require NO skill. You run in a giant zerg guild, and have tons of individuals that do conquest side quests and it all adds up to a win. It's not complicated.

 

Conquest isn't some grand feat of hard work and concise organization on the part of the gigantic conquest guilds. The larger conquest guilds are not crushing the smaller guilds due to some strategic masterminding.

 

 

 

You talk about fairness and yet despite name dropping my guild so many times in your replies and calling for us to be punished you have still not stated your own guild's name.

 

Also, the guy wasn't personally attacking you or your beloved conquest guild. You have turned this into some petty and childish personal attack on him because you didn't like him using your guilds name when in reality he just used the name because it was one of the ones he was aware of.

 

Sure, he could have not typed the specific guild name and used a more homogenized term like "gigantic conquest zerg guild" but instead he used one guilds actual name as an example because most people understand it's not that serious.

 

He said nothing that sounded malicious or personal he simply attached a name to one of the gigantic zerg guilds that has a complete grip on the conquest system and then he pointed out why he felt the present conquest system isn't fair.

 

If you recall, the new changes were supposedly added to give smaller guilds a "better chance at competing in conquest," stated by Eric btw. This has hardly happened, which is why many smaller guilds are so frustrated with the changes - they did not help one bit.

 

I also never seen where he said you need punished, I guess I missed that part? I only see him wanting a more fair and engaging conquest system. He's right, there's very little reason to join a smaller guild for conquest purposes.

[UlaVii]

He said nothing that sounded malicious or personal he simply attached a name to one of the gigantic zerg guilds that has a complete grip on the conquest system and then he pointed out why he felt the present conquest system isn't fair.

 

I also never seen where he said you need punished, I guess I missed that part? I only see him wanting a more fair and engaging conquest system. He's right, there's very little reason to join a smaller guild for conquest purposes.

They wrote my guild's name in almost every post they made in this thread and it is not with good intentions. They also specifically called for penalties against my guild multiple times:

2. Introduce a penalty for large guilds going after medium and small yield planets and medium guilds going after small planets. Evidently offering superior rewards isn't enough, otherwise Stroke My Wookie wouldn't camp the small planets every week. The penalty could be something like 100% more conquest points needed for personal and guild reward if a large guild invades a small planet, and 50% more if they go after a medium planet (or a medium sized guild goes after a small planet)

You just proved that we do need penalties

 

I appreciate you have issues against large guilds on your server making CQ pacts but you should not lump us all together as "zerg guilds". I've seen you posting in the forum before and thought you had some class, your unnecessary venom here towards me and my guild is uncalled for.

 

Clearly there is not much point trying to have a debate here when all one side can do is throw petty insults and insist the game developers punish other players and guilds. All any of you do acting like this is make the producers happy as they much prefer we are at each other's necks instead of theirs since they are the ones responsible for all this.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I named your guild as an example because you're the most obvious. You're far from the only one.

 

The new conquest system was intended to give everyone a chance, large guilds were supposed to invade large planets, medium to medium, small to small.

 

Sure, we all knew it wouldn't work because there is no rule, regulation or incentive to stop large guilds from going after medium and small planets, especially not when the guild is so massive it has to be split into two.

 

So, to avoid competition with yourself you go after two planets every week. Which you win easily because you simply have way more players than anyone else. It's Saturday and your guild has 4.2 + 3.1 million conquest points, leading the board for Hoth and Ilum. There is no way anyone will catch up to you. Not because your players are more dedicated or skilled or anything... you are simply more.

 

As a consequence of that other large guilds go after the medium planet, so all boards are dominated by large guilds... which was not the intention.

 

Who I am or what the name of my guild is doesn't matter unless you want to make things personal. I am talking about facts and I have been trying to get this discussion back on track for a while now. I don't know why you're still stuck on this one point when there's more to talk about.

[DaemionMoadrin]

And because you obviously didn't understand what I meant with alliances, let me explain it once more.

 

What I am proposing is an upgrade to the game mechanics. Within your invasion window in the game you have the option to create an alliance. You know, with a short member list, able to invite other guilds (through their leaders) and so on. Actual, in-the-game mechanic, not just a verbal agreement with someone.

That would mean that after Guild A, Guild B, Guild C and Guild D have joined Alliance X, they can then invade one planet under the name of Alliance X. Any points earned by any member of any of the 4 guilds would count towards the alliance, not their own guild.

As a result, while each guild might only earn 500k, the alliance itself could earn 2 million points and that might give them a chance.

 

That is vastly different from anything you talked about with your "sometimes I didn't invade planets because friends wanted them".

[Lhancelot]

I've seen you posting in the forum before and thought you had some class, your unnecessary venom here towards me and my guild is uncalled for.

 

I don't even know what guild you are in tbh. I never stored that in my memory it's irrelevant to me.

 

I think the guy is saying in general terms, there ought to be some sort of system balance that makes conquest more fair regarding how points are accrued, a system that gives a little more to the small guilds and less to the large guilds. I can see both sides of this argument.

 

I use the term "zerg" meaning large guild that tends to invite quite freely into their guild. A large roster is the result of this type of recruiting. It's not a bad thing, especially on this game. That's not an insult to you or your guild, it's just how it is regarding these mega guilds I see on this game.

 

Anyway, it's nothing personal on my behalf. I feel like the dude wasn't attacking you or your guild personally at first, it was more of an attack on how the conquest system rewards larger guilds heavily. He attached guild names and you became defensive which then turned the conversation into an argument not about conquest but instead about perceived slights.

 

Once you both turned it into a personal debate the point of the thread was lost.

 

My question to you is how do you feel about the repeatable rampage bug/exploit that everyone is using to accrue more points than what was intentionally designed?

[GrimTheGlutt]

And because you obviously didn't understand what I meant with alliances, let me explain it once more.

 

What I am proposing is an upgrade to the game mechanics. Within your invasion window in the game you have the option to create an alliance. You know, with a short member list, able to invite other guilds (through their leaders) and so on. Actual, in-the-game mechanic, not just a verbal agreement with someone.

That would mean that after Guild A, Guild B, Guild C and Guild D have joined Alliance X, they can then invade one planet under the name of Alliance X. Any points earned by any member of any of the 4 guilds would count towards the alliance, not their own guild.

As a result, while each guild might only earn 500k, the alliance itself could earn 2 million points and that might give them a chance.

 

That is vastly different from anything you talked about with your "sometimes I didn't invade planets because friends wanted them".

 

I see the intent, but "Big guild without name" could also alliance and one of the issues with conquest is exacerbated. Sorry.

 

The issue with other guilds not getting any chance at titles/winning is purely down to size, there is no competition. The large/medium/small yields were supposed to compensate for this, but it failed miserably and if anything just made it more apparent.

 

Just picking on one of Ula's demand to have caps increase wouldn't fix issue of them dominating boards, a 2k or 3k user guild will just ALWAYS be top, no competition, so whats point in it? It not Ula's fault, its not anyones fault but how this conquest system is designed. It's he who have numbers wins (with assumption a number are dedicated to conquest)... Simpe as that.

 

Some small guilds like to do conquest and why shouldn't they be allowed to win sometimes or at least have a chance to win, just because they are small should not be defining factor?

 

Likewise big guilds should be allowed to win, get titles, etc.

 

But a big guild through number accounts or shady agreements is not competition and is not what those outside of the winning bubble consider a fair deal.

 

As i said before, unless they average it in some way theres no way to level it and will be purely on numbers.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I see the intent, but "Big guild without name" could also alliance and one of the issues with conquest is exacerbated. Sorry.

 

The issue with other guilds not getting any chance at titles/winning is purely down to size, there is no competition. The large/medium/small yields were supposed to compensate for this, but it failed miserably and if anything just made it more apparent.

 

Just picking on one of Ula's demand to have caps increase wouldn't fix issue of them dominating boards, a 2k or 3k user guild will just ALWAYS be top, no competition, so whats point in it? It not Ula's fault, its not anyones fault but how this conquest system is designed. It's he who have numbers wins (with assumption a number are dedicated to conquest)... Simpe as that.

 

Some small guilds like to do conquest and why shouldn't they be allowed to win sometimes or at least have a chance to win, just because they are small should not be defining factor?

 

Likewise big guilds should be allowed to win, get titles, etc.

 

But a big guild through number accounts or shady agreements is not competition and is not what those outside of the winning bubble consider a fair deal.

 

As i said before, unless they average it in some way theres no way to level it and will be purely on numbers.

 

You are correct. My intention with this thread was to post some ideas and then discuss them constructively, I am not married to any of my proposals if we can come up with something better (and I think we have).

 

I would prefer if Stroke my Wookie (name drop the 6th!) was just one huge guild though. It wouldn't change the board for large planets but then they'd only invade one, not two... so medium and small would still be available.

 

Or, going with my initial proposal, if all planets were available all the time, you would have a chance to win sometimes even with a smaller guild, simply because all the whales were rolling around somewhere else and wouldn't be crushing you for a change.

[GrimTheGlutt]

You are correct. My intention with this thread was to post some ideas and then discuss them constructively, I am not married to any of my proposals if we can come up with something better (and I think we have).

 

I would prefer if Stroke my Wookie (name drop the 6th!) was just one huge guild though. It wouldn't change the board for large planets but then they'd only invade one, not two... so medium and small would still be available.

 

Or, going with my initial proposal, if all planets were available all the time, you would have a chance to win sometimes even with a smaller guild, simply because all the whales were rolling around somewhere else and wouldn't be crushing you for a change.

 

Ula should put up there conquest plans for each week and then we can do any other planet/yield - problem solved.

 

But seriously yeah having all planets or even 6 available might help with competition but also all planets should have all yields too... so up to 18 options to invade... If big guild want ilum they can still go for large yield, but still have a medium/small yeild available for the smaller guilds. But that doesnt stop big guild choosing small yield.

 

Anyway - Unfortunately can't see BW doing anything about it... their metrics just show Conquest alive and kicking

[fishpeople]

I'm not really sure how they could improve it for smaller guilds other than running all the planets but only have the rewards apply to a certain few?

[Sandrosw]

But seriously yeah having all planets or even 6 available might help with competition but also all planets should have all yields too... so up to 18 options to invade... If big guild want ilum they can still go for large yield, but still have a medium/small yeild available for the smaller guilds.

 

I think this would actually work even with 3 planets. If each planet were present in small, medium and high variant, the biggest guilds with lots of people would go for higher tiers. Being in one such large guild and having the Galactic Conqueror title... we have numbers to do the highest tier, most people like the highest tier rewards, but sometimes we need to go to medium/small planet just to get those titles, similar to what SmW guilds do.

 

With the change, we would not need to go for example to small Ilum, but we would choose medium or large Ilum. So the small tier would free up from large guilds, as (at least on DM) there are actually not 9 super large guilds, but more like 6 of them - and some invade just large tiers for reward and do not care about titles (usually when it is 2 guilds under same leadership - one with alts for titles, second with alts for highest rewards).

 

That would more often than not leave small and sometimes even medium planets open for smaller guilds - which would be better than what we have now (I am not saying it is ideal, but with the CQ system we have, we have limitations on what and how to improve it). Of course week like Total Galactic War would be unchanged, as it has all planets, but for most weeks with only 3 planets it would provide more targets to invade and more guilds able to win titles for them (which people in this thread asked for), it would allow for large guilds getting large planets and large rewards without forcing them to small planets just to get the title (which is, frankly, what we in large guilds want), and it would allow for small/medium guild to compete on lower tiers of the planet for titles. The only thing that would need to be solved is the name of guild that controls the planet - I suppose the system would have to take winners from all 3 tiers and check, which one has the most points, and that guild would control the planet.

[Sundown]

I disagree here.

I will put it this way lol:

A guild which has more no lifers willing to do deadly stupid, boring and repetive stuff over and over gets a chance to win but will still never win against an at least somewhat committed bigger conquest guild.

But should any studio support and/or force players to do stupid repetitive content at all? I think not, especially regarding the long time effects on our beloved game. To allow this is a negative impact on this game in general. It's not gameplay, it's just a "switch your brain off and still be bored" thing.

Gameplay should be exciting and interesting and not killing x mobs, rinse and repeat. That should not be the intention of a guild competition like conquest is.

AND besides that, of course this is by defintion an exploit and not intended at all.

Don't see the disagreement in general? Repeatable will still be better for competition than one time.

And how is farming kills any different to farming lockouts? Or killing commanders? As long as you don't account for specific skills (which will cause an outrage with everyone not having those of course), what are the options? And of course: if you join TS and have a chat and a beer while farming mobs I can imagine it might be fun and build relationships within the guild.

 

I don't care if it is an exploit or not. It is in the game for so long, the devs don't care. Why should players? And there's hardly any harm done, in contrast to other things like the "buy low and sell high" bug.

The missing component is the fact the zerg guilds also have people that do the broken repeatable rampages too.

 

The tiny guild isn't going to compete with a guild that has 900 members that also so happens to have 10-15 of these types of players who spend their time doing nothing but the broken repeatables.[...]

 

I do agree though, if the devs want to include repeatables as I said before they need to make them legit and not allow this broken exploit to continue.

I am not missing that point, I just see no way to change it. Either you allow guilds of different sizes to compete, or you don't. If you compete, you might lose, then all players start to flock to the winning guilds, making them even stronger. That's the way it is and always has been.

 

I don't care about the "bug" (see above). It has been in the game and known to the devs for so long, either they don't care, or they consider it legit. Then again, I am "Galaxy Conqueror", so I don't need the achievements anymore anyway.

 

My main point is: the more players in a guild, the more points you will be able to get. Simple as that. The less repeatable quests you have, the more the number of members counts. Again: simple as that.

 

Only ways out: either factor in the size of the guild into the numbers you get rewarded (which will lead to large guilds tailoring their roster to maximize this), or prevent guilds of different sizes from competing. This can be done by exploding the options to invade, so it gets less likely for them to meet, or by forcing guilds to invade planets matching their size, or by getting rid of competition against each other altogether and just have guilds fight against a threshold (same as with the rewardsright now).

[Cerixy]

 

1. Make all planets available for conquest all the time, that way the guilds can spread out. There at least a dozen large conquest guilds around after the server merge if they all compete for the same 3 planets there's nothing left for the medium or small guilds. Also change up which planets are small, medium and large yield.

 

 

This is the best solution in my opinion, Some think it removes competition and thats complete stupidity. With the galactic conquest I saw in my guild a new drive with some players, they really wanted to win and they worked hard but in the end we got second place, beaten by another smaller guild which put in twice as much effort. But the point is we had a chance, if that chance was available every week then we'd get more people interested in conquest and so would other guilds.

 

I know last week some of the planets didn't even have a full invasion but if they are all made available every week with rotating yields I think we would see each and every planet with a full invasion. It was nice seeing guilds I have never even heard of before up on the conquest boards. It would not remove competition at all, if anything it would increase it by bringing in more guilds and more players with a new hope of winning, all competing against each other. With the rotating yield we could hope the usual suspects on every server would stick to the large yield worlds.

 

The only other suggestion would be to split control of planets by their zones, So Balmorra, Sobrik Large Yield, Sundari Flatlands Medium Yield and so on... but I prefer the OP's number 1 idea over this.

[Ice_Princess]

There is seriously a lot of whining going on in this thread! Seriously, shut it! If you want to be competitive then grow your guild. A small guild should not be able to win at conquest. The very word by definition implies that an army has taken over a country, or in this case a planet, by force. An army. Not an army of one, but an ARMY of many people. The big guilds that form alliances are just being smart and tactical and there's nothing wrong with that. This happens all the time in the real world. And I'd wager that if you grow your guild and start being competitive against them, they'd probably offer an alliance with you and bring you into the fold. But if you want to stay a small guild, then learn to accept the consequences of your decision.

 

I have to disagree with you there. There's a reason why BW decided to bring out the large/medium/small yield system, which despite being pretty flawed so far, aims to separate guilds based on size using incentives of bigger rewards. If you paid attention to previous posts, you may have noticed that no-one complained about large guilds being able to win better rewards when conquering a large yield planet. The issue that most small guilds have is basically large guilds occupying small yield planets purely for achievement purposes, for which they always get a very easy win.

 

I agree that there's nothing wrong with big guilds winning. But I don't think they should win by a margin of 3m points compared to the 2nd place guild. What would be really nice, is an opportunity to see large guilds win large rewards against other large guilds, whilst small guilds can stay involved by competing against other guilds of similar size (or large guilds with scaled down numbers) for smaller rewards, which I will add, is the original intent that is not working as intended.

 

I would also like to add that the topic of discussion is not parallel to the real life "survival of the fittest" phenomenon, instead, the emphasis is placed on the value of participation and being involved as a gaming community. Winning is secondary to keeping players interested and involved in game content, which is not only in BW's best interest but in your own as well if you enjoy the occasional group content. Therefore, conquest must continue to keep people in big AND small guilds motivated and involved, by ensuring the efforts of small guilds are not thwarted easily week after week.

 

Lastly, I hope that you will agree if each server has the same three large guilds (whom are allied and communicate often) winning conquest each week; conquest will become even duller than it already is and the fleets will be flooded with boneheads in full 248 gear, 240 augments from rampage, dailies, command and conquest rewards.

 

Also, please see below for the definition of "whining".

 

Exactly, nothing more to say here. I think I remember that I myself already got a warning or even a 3 day ban to call it whining though lol. Doesn't make it wrong...

 

You're confusing whining with suggestions.

When you whine, you complain about how bitterly unfair everything is without any logical thought. Quite the contrary, most people here provided constructive ideas about keeping more players engaged and involved in swtor and some of them have great ideas whether I agree with them or not.

 

Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean the other people here don't have valid arguments. When you're in a discussion forum, I think the general idea is, well, a discussion about why you don't agree.

 

Applying RL logic to a game, especially in such an obvious case is, you know what? Logic! lol, and having said that the ONLY logical and acceptable approach here. Your attempt to distract from hard facts with that lame Hoth comparison and that it is a fantasy game in general has no business here, is outstanding dishonest and a poor and easy to discover attempt to make a case for your point, which is getting it all without going through the effort others make.

In other words, you have not ONE any sensemaking and valid point to deliver, yet you can't stop it.

 

It might be a little hard to believe, but swtor is actually not real life. Conquest is not a job, your guild is not your employer or family. You also failed to point out the "hard facts" you have apart from throwing insults including "lame", "dishonest" and something about being lazy (which ironically is why people join big conquest guilds in the first place. Aka, less effort required individually with more people farming points).

 

If I have to make a blind guess about what evidence you could possibly have for your "logical conclusion", I would say it's something like, "big guild/groups/people = better = more wins = lol". If you read a little further on instead of cherry-picking the bits you comprehended, you will find he delivered a very valid point on participation over winning.

In real life, participation and effort is all that matters in friendly competitions. And conquest is, in short, a friendly competition to get people excited and involved in something bigger.

 

All of this goes back to the simple truth that small guilds don't want to "win" easily and this thread is not written because "small guilds are lazy". On the contrary, we just don't want to put a light weight boxer in the same category as a heavy weight boxer, nor a high school football team against a primary school football team. Keeping it the way it is helps one of these parties to remain "lazy" with easy wins, changing the rules of the competition will give everyone opportunities to achieve goals with reasonable effort and allow everyone to stay excited and involved in the competition.

 

So, if you're just here to whine about the "whining", cherry-pick nonsensically with the occasional "lol" and ignore other opinions and suggestions (which threaten your easy game time for the benefit of the rest of the gaming population), I suggest you stop torturing yourself on discussion forums in general.

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After reading your many posts, I saw many good suggestions and I like the idea of the following changes;

1) More planets/options for each planet to invade per week to create more winners.

2) Some extra incentives/rules to keep large guilds to large yield planets.

3) Alliance mechanic (which does not require /gquit) between smaller guilds to increase competitiveness (while creating a limit based on total number of active/qualifying accounts).

4) Remove the rampage bug and make it into a once weekly per legacy objective

5) Make pvp/gsf/fp/uprising weeklies and event dailies repeatable so we can return to more interesting content rather than farming random kills on a planet.

 

 

I will keep reading for more suggestions

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ice_Princess

[DaemionMoadrin]

Excellent post. I'm in full agreement with you, Ice_Princess.

[Ice_Princess]

 

(edit:Post this was made in response to was removed by mods)

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ice_Princess

[Sundown]

After reading your many posts, I saw many good suggestions and I like the idea of the following changes;

1) More planets/options for each planet to invade per week to create more winners.

2) Some extra incentives/rules to keep large guilds to large yield planets.

3) Alliance mechanic (which does not require /gquit) between smaller guilds to increase competitiveness (while creating a limit based on total number of active/qualifying accounts).

4) Remove the rampage bug and make it into a once weekly per legacy objective

5) Make pvp/gsf/fp/uprising weeklies and event dailies repeatable so we can return to more interesting content rather than farming random kills on a planet.

Preface: I guess you missed/don't accept that one part of conquest is already done on guild level, means: setting up and preparing a guild for success. One means is to recruit people willing to rack up points, and recruit in numbers large enough. This will lead to many issues maintaining the guild and such, so ist not "free loot". Then again I understand the frustration not being large enough to win and seeing no realistic chance of success getting there, and I do agree that the game needs less, not more frustration. Maybe the competition aspect is overrated - it could be moved to some kind of instanced mode, e.g. have partitions of guilds battling it out (with identical numbers of players). For the rest I suggest to get rid of competition for the achievements: calculate a threshold (same as planet thresholds) for a guild to achieve to get the title. Make it hard enough to be challenging, base it on number of accounts at the start of the conquest week and forbid changes to the roster. Or (see previous idea) create a "conquest roster" within a guild of a specific size (e.g. 16) valid for a week and allow only those 16 to score points (yes, I know, what happens in case of sickness, so add a substitution concept.. ).

 

Regarding your suggestions:

1) and 2) basically just remove competition, or at least aim in that direction. So be more reckless and remove it for good. Especially since 2) will only work if planets change the size, so that each planet may be captured by any guild, else the incentive would not have any impact.

3) is just a weak circumvention for my preface. You want to have a big guild, without being in one... I don't like that.

4) is ok as long as 5) comes. The less repetitive objectives you have, the more the number of accounts determines the results. I don't care if the repittion is more or less boring. In the end: killing commanders is as mind-numbing as killing random mobs, same goes for 99% of the event-quests, which basically always just contain "kill x and get y"... it is merely a matter of taste.

[Ice_Princess]

Preface: I guess you missed/don't accept that one part of conquest is already done on guild level, means: setting up and preparing a guild for success. One means is to recruit people willing to rack up points, and recruit in numbers large enough. This will lead to many issues maintaining the guild and such, so ist not "free loot". Then again I understand the frustration not being large enough to win and seeing no realistic chance of success getting there, and I do agree that the game needs less, not more frustration. Maybe the competition aspect is overrated - it could be moved to some kind of instanced mode, e.g. have partitions of guilds battling it out (with identical numbers of players). For the rest I suggest to get rid of competition for the achievements: calculate a threshold (same as planet thresholds) for a guild to achieve to get the title. Make it hard enough to be challenging, base it on number of accounts at the start of the conquest week and forbid changes to the roster. Or (see previous idea) create a "conquest roster" within a guild of a specific size (e.g. 16) valid for a week and allow only those 16 to score points (yes, I know, what happens in case of sickness, so add a substitution concept.. ).

 

Regarding your suggestions:

1) and 2) basically just remove competition, or at least aim in that direction. So be more reckless and remove it for good. Especially since 2) will only work if planets change the size, so that each planet may be captured by any guild, else the incentive would not have any impact.

3) is just a weak circumvention for my preface. You want to have a big guild, without being in one... I don't like that.

4) is ok as long as 5) comes. The less repetitive objectives you have, the more the number of accounts determines the results. I don't care if the repittion is more or less boring. In the end: killing commanders is as mind-numbing as killing random mobs, same goes for 99% of the event-quests, which basically always just contain "kill x and get y"... it is merely a matter of taste.

 

Well said. I don't refute that larger guilds probably work harder than small guilds (who are only mildly interested in conquest) to recruit and organise events for conquest points. It certainly takes focus and dedication to win, earn great rewards in any real life or game situations. I believe this is why BW (attempted to) use large rewards, mat boxes in order to motivated large guilds to invade large planets. Whilst offering a smaller reward for small yield planets so smaller (but no less committed) guilds and casual guilds can still participate in the invasion of a small yield planet.

 

Removing the competition between guilds by introducing a threshold would definitely make it easier to earn rewards and achievements overall (even if you make the target high enough to be challenging, at least you don't have to earn 3m more points as a small guild to get the desired titles/achievements). I am a little concerned however, about the level of interest conquest/swtor will retain once everyone got their titles.

There's no winning strategy here, in my opinion. There will always people who are unhappy about things being too easy/too difficult to achieve (e.g. the mixed opinions about current gearing system). I believe the suggestions about increasing planets/options on 1) are sort of middle of the road; meant to make titles and achievements more attainable whilst still somewhat challenging and competitive.

2) and 3) are mutually exclusive situations in my opinion, where if one was introduced the other would not be required. I find your ideas about conquest partitions and rosters very intriguing and similar to my intentions in point 2), and I'm happy with any new suggestions to ensure a similar level of activity within each group.

I also agree that 4) and 5) should be mutually inclusive. 4) at the moment is easy points, but 5) will be an improvement as it encourages people to play real content and not "farm x amount of mobs each day".

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ice_Princess

[Lhancelot]

Well said. I don't refute that larger guilds probably work harder than small guilds (who are only mildly interested in conquest) to recruit and organise events for conquest points. It certainly takes focus and dedication to win, earn great rewards in any real life or game situations. I believe this is why BW (attempted to) use large rewards, mat boxes in order to motivated large guilds to invade large planets. Whilst offering a smaller reward for small yield planets so smaller (but no less committed) guilds and casual guilds can still participate in the invasion of a small yield planet.

 

Removing the competition between guilds by introducing a threshold would definitely make it easier to earn rewards and achievements overall (even if you make the target high enough to be challenging, at least you don't have to earn 3m more points as a small guild to get the desired titles/achievements). I am a little concerned however, about the level of interest conquest/swtor will retain once everyone got their titles.

There's no winning strategy here, in my opinion. There will always people who are unhappy about things being too easy/too difficult to achieve (e.g. the mixed opinions about current gearing system). I believe the suggestions about increasing planets/options on 1) are sort of middle of the road; meant to make titles and achievements more attainable whilst still somewhat challenging and competitive.

2) and 3) are mutually exclusive situations in my opinion, where if one was introduced the other would not be required. I find your ideas about conquest partitions and rosters very intriguing and similar to my intentions in point 2), and I'm happy with any new suggestions to ensure a similar level of activity within each group.

I also agree that 4) and 5) should be mutually inclusive. 4) at the moment is easy points, but 5) will be an improvement as it encourages people to play real content and not "farm x amount of mobs each day".

 

I have one of my imps in a gigantic conquest guild, and I found this week we were doing Ilum. I asked why? It yielded smaller rewards compared to the large one we won last week.

 

Not one officer spoke up, but a member sent me a tell and explained our guild takes turns with the other monster conquest guild on the server, and somehow this smaller planet was ours this week to take.

 

I don't know what dictates when we take smaller planets etc., this guy didn't explain much more than that to me.

 

I just noticed one thing, which is the second place guild for this planet was so far behind in points they could never compete with the guild I am in.

 

I joined the guild for easy conquest for an easy way to get high tier mats. That's exactly why I joined a zerg conquest guild. Why would I join a small guild that will never win anything, not even small planets due to the larger ones taking them too?

 

Luckily conquest doesn't affect me much. I PVP 90% of the time, and most of my conquest points come from that and the big gain weeklies I do for not only conquest but for CXP too.

 

If I enjoyed conquest and was looking for true competition though, I would have some serious bones to pick with this system because it is far from being a competitive field of play.

 

Ice_Princess crushed the zerg guild defenders with logic and panache.

 

However, I disagree with Ice_Princess only on the point of it being difficult and hard to organize and conquer planets within a zerg conquest guild.

 

I see them run their groups for conquest but these seem more as social venues for guildies.

 

Tbh the ones that rack up the most points are individuals that run the rampage repeatables non-stop or on weeks that's not available the non-stop PVPers like myself.

 

I don't see some massive organization happening in our guild which is wheeling us to victories I just see tons of individuals accruing points together for the win. That's why having a gigantic roster is more important in this system, every little bit helps so the more players you got getting conquest points, the better.

 

 

 

How to make conquest better and more dynamic:

 

 

Here's my suggestion to make conquest actually give a guild vs. guild competition element; tie WZs with conquest directly! Make it so guilds can enter WZs specifically against other conquest guilds! Winners gain points for the specific planet they fight for, and losers lose points!

 

This would encourage guilds to fight other guilds for planets and create competition! Also, if these fights could really grant smaller guilds better chances of controlling a planet if they were able to win WZs against the other guilds fighting for that planet.

 

If they really wanted to make this work, they could even create specific WZ maps for every planet! Imagine all the different rivalries that would come out of guilds fighting other guilds for planet control.

 

I know this idea is outside the box, but honestly this would add a dynamic piece to conquest. I realize some do not enjoy PVP, and that's fine.

 

For those who hate PVP, they could win planets by grinding rampage repeatables non-stop and doing conquest just as they do it now.

 

I personally feel this bug should be fixed, but if they want to allow it to continue then they'd have to make the WZ wars over planets be able to compete points-wise with that exploit to make it a fair competition.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Bold printing of the part I agree upon by me :

 

Conquest still has a few issues, namely that it is next to impossible for small or medium guilds to conquer a planet,

 

Well said. I don't refute that larger guilds probably work harder than small guilds

 

Sounds to me like "big guilds work much harder than small guilds ! They deserve every planet !"

 

No. Big guilds don't need to work that hard. They conquer by sheer mass of players.

 

The only time big guilds need to work hard is against other big guilds.

 

Small guilds ? Who cares about them ? They are meaningless like dirt to them.

 

Small guilds are the REAL ones who have to work hard to get into upper positions at all/i] !

 

Conquest is an exact mirror of corporate america now.

Edited July 30, 2018 by AlrikFassbauer