Conquest: Providing specifically what you felt you could do on alts previously

[matthobbit]

After reading through the entirety of the 5.8, 5.8a, and 5.9 conquest feedback threads that seemed to be completely crystal clear that NOBODY likes the "Daily Repeatable - Once per day, per Legacy", I was more than a little perplexed that the devs are requesting feedback on this topic, since I felt like it was mentioned in 9/10 posts.

 

So I thought I'd write up a little post to be extremely clear about what we don't get conquest credit for which needs to come back ASAP or suffer further player atrophy.

 

To be clear: these should be "Repeatable - Infinitely repeatable on anyone", and should be available every week:

• Complete GF operation
  
• Weekly mission for 5 veteran flashpoints
  
• Weekly mission for 3 master flashpoints
  
• Weekly mission for completing 20 PvP ranked
  
• Weekly mission for completing 20 PvP unranked
  
• Weekly mission for GSF
  

 

And you know what, the greatest thing about these is they require little to no extra coding, as once you complete the weekly on that character, you can't complete it again until the week is up. So you can have it as an infinite repeatable, but every single character can only complete it once. This restores popular rewards that players have been politely, and not politely, requesting for the past 2 weeks. Because they would be exactly like they were before. Rewarding and encouraging guild & group participation.

 

If anyone has more to add to this list please do.

[StormForceDax]

If you are not including anything in your list for solo players then BW can keep it as it is now. Broken yes, but at least it's broken for everyone and not just solo players, as it would be going by your post.

 

"If anyone has more to add to this list please do."

 

Why yes add solo-able items to your list.

Edited March 31, 2018 by StormForceDax

[Euphrosyne]

If you are not including anything in your list for solo players then BW can keep it as it is now. Broken yes, but at least it's broken for everyone and not just solo players, as it would be going by your post.

Crafting is a solo activity. Have fun.

[StormForceDax]

Crafting is a solo activity. Have fun.

 

With the changes to crafting, solo-able yes, worth doing now NO. You can do all what's in the OP's post now as a group. Don't see you making sarky comments on that. You get far more points doing any of them than you do using crafting to get conquest points even as a one time only. So I stand by my last post. If the OP is only asking for changes for groups then BW can keep it as it is.

Edited March 31, 2018 by StormForceDax

[Euphrosyne]

With the changes to crafting, solo-able yes, worth doing now NO. You can do all what's in the OP's post now as a group. Don't see you making sarky comments on that. You get far more points doing any of them than you do using crafting to get conquest points even as a one time only. So I stand by my last post. If the OP is only asking for changes for groups then BW can keep it as it is.

I'm not making "sarky" [sic] comments, because a return to the way it was before 5.8 - when most daily objectives were per-character, rather than per-legacy - is a change that the overwhelming majority of the Conquest community wants. They're absolutely correct to want it, too.

 

I'm being snarky about solo players, because Conquest was never geared toward solo players. Most weeks, solo players could not cap multiple alts (until the unintended consequences of the heroic mission change). Conquest was an activity designed to retain players who did group and guild content so that queues remained short and participation remained high. Saying solo players should be able to do Conquest better is like saying they should be able to win Warzones. You're totally missing the point.

 

Of course, you're well within your rights to want a thing to change for you. I want Conquest planetary wins to yield ten Grand Chance Cubes per character. But I recognize that that is a silly thing to demand, and I think that wanting Conquest to be a soloable activity is also a silly thing to demand.

[StormForceDax]

Well Euphrosyne I think you are being just as silly, childish and selfish. BTW was not saying it should not go back to how it was before as I had a few issues with it but only a few, but that's not what the OP is asking for is it? just special privileges for group players. Still he did ask for any ideas and has plenty of chances to update he's requests. As for the rest of your post:

 

" because Conquest was never geared toward solo players"

 

I have been doing conquest for 2+ years. Never had much of an issue before as a solo player. So was geared towards all.

 

"(until the unintended consequences of the heroic mission change).

 

Unintended? What consequences?

I mean really consequences? So sorry did not realise the sky was falling yet again because added heroics to conquests. Sorry also did not know you were BW's spokesperson either and know what's unintended or intended. Well the conquests as it is now was done by BW so must be intended. Does not stop you demanding changes, does it?

 

" Conquest was an activity designed to retain players"

 

Again so sorry did not realise I was not a player of this game. Well gee learn something new every day. Yes am being snarky myself now but you know you are kinda asking for it big time. This game was and still is advertised as a solo friendly game. Which is why I started playing 4 years ago. Of course that does not mean its unfriendly to group players either, but that does not mean that solo players can't play or are unwelcome. Is your monthly sub more than mine that you feel you are extra special and deserve more than others? I can live with that BTW if BW are charging you more than me. If not well....not OK.

 

" I'm being snarky about solo players"

 

Well you know what, that part of your post I don't mind because I hate you group players equally as much.

Like the OP I agree conquests needs more work, but should be fixed for all of SWTOR customers not just a few who think they are a special case. Despite what I said about group players, I know not all are like you. It was however players like you as to why I dislike group players so much. So BW fix for all or don't bother fixing it at all.

Quotes underlined are all Euphrosyne

Edited March 31, 2018 by StormForceDax

[Damask_Rose]

Prior to 5.8 daily area weeklies were per character, not per legacy. Ditto heroics. (I couldn't tell last week if heroics remained once per day per character or if they got moved to the legacy category.) On crafting weeks, crafting was per character.

[PennyAnn]

Planetary Heroics & daily areas should be added to that list.

 

 

The problem that they are not recognizing is that in creating the "Daily" objectives and making those once per legacy per day, they didn't create a bunch of new objectives for that category. They moved objectives that were previously infinitely repeatable into that category and changed them from repeatable per character to once per legacy per day.

 

That is why it feels more alt-punishing than it did before, as a whole.

 

.

Edited March 31, 2018 by PennyAnn

[Euphrosyne]

Well Euphrosyne I think you are being just as silly, childish and selfish. BTW was not saying it should not go back to how it was before as I had a few issues with it but only a few, but that's not what the OP is asking for is it? just special privileges for group players. Still he did ask for any ideas and has plenty of chances to update he's requests. As for the rest of your post:

 

" because Conquest was never geared toward solo players"

 

I have been doing conquest for 2+ years. Never had much of an issue before as a solo player.

 

"(until the unintended consequences of the heroic mission change).

 

Unintended? What consequences? I mean really consequences? So sorry did not realise the sky was falling yet again because of heroics. Sorry did not know you were BW's spokesperson either and know what's unintended or intended. Well the conquests as it is now was done by BW so must be intended. Does not stop you demanding changes does it?

 

" Conquest was an activity designed to retain players"

 

Oh, so sorry did not realise I was not a player of this game. Well gree learn something new every day. Yes am being snarky myself now but you know you are kinda asking for it big time. This game was and still is advertised as a solo friendly game, which is why I started playing 4 years ago. Of course that does not mean its unfriendly to group players, but that does not mean that solo players can't play or are unwelcome. Is your monthly sub more than mine that you feel you are extra special and deserve more than others? I can live with that BTW if BW are charging you more than me. If not well, not OK.

 

" I'm being snarky about solo players"

 

Well you know what, that part of your post I don't mind because I hate you group players equally as much.

Like the OP I agree conquests needs more work, but should be fixed for all of SWTOR customers not just a few who think they are a special case. Despite what I said about group players, I know not all are like you. It was however players like you as to why I dislike group players so much. So BW fix for all or don't bother fixing it at all.

Quotes underlined are all Euphrosyne

Never mind, I'm being snarky because of your low English reading-comprehension skills.

[bubbalooau]

other than the obvious, the problem i have encountered with this 'once per legacy' thing is that i have now accidentally completed objectives on lesser played alts. the result is a few rarely-played toons with 10000cq each (with no hope of earning more), and toons i play the hell out of with less than 1000cq each (with no hope of earning more). in the end not a single toon will qualify for cq.

i used to grind 100,000cq a week on average, but now... the lesson i learnt is to simply not play alts. diminishing rewards means less play time over all.

the result for non-cq ppl is this is one less tank/healer in the queues.

Edited March 31, 2018 by bubbalooau

[PennyAnn]

Can we have a single thread of just feedback without people being shtty to each other? Come on guys, the developers don't want to read posts where you argue and nitpick back and forth, and frankly neither do most of the posters here. Let's please at least attempt to give them useful feedback and in such a way that they might actually view us worthy of being heard. Most of the people here are unhappy about the changes, and it has definitely spread more than a little grouchy among the player base and especially among the forum posters. But if we keep it constructive, then there is no reason they can't more easily read through our feedback and maybe (just maybe) actually implement some of it.

 

I think the main disconnect is that the items they moved into the "Daily" category (that didn't exist before) became once-per-legacy per day when before they were infinitely repeatable. That plus the slashing of point values is why it is so much more harsh to complete more than one or two alts in conquest. It seems almost overly harsh because of the fact that the very same infinitely repeatable points that we relied on to manage that have now been turned into a new "Daily" objective with a legacy restriction.

 

All they need to do is go back and look at the previous version of conquest, and any of the items they moved from infinite to Daily should be reviewed, possibly moved back, and actual NEW "Daily" objectives (that make more sense to lock behind once per legacy restrictions) be created - and that are worth more points than they are currently if they are not repeatable on alts.

 

That would see a larger part of the problem fixed more quickly (even if another month from now isn't overly "quick", at least they would have time to make this change and test it over the next few weeks).

 

.

Edited March 31, 2018 by PennyAnn

[masterceil]

After reading through the entirety of the 5.8, 5.8a, and 5.9 conquest feedback threads that seemed to be completely crystal clear that NOBODY likes the "Daily Repeatable - Once per day, per Legacy",

 

I like Once per Day, per Legacy for things like Operation objectives. I don't like LO farming, and that's one way to stop it. Not the way I would have chosen (I'd rather the requirement be to kill each boss in an Operation, or have a smaller number of points for each Ops boss downed so backfillers wouldn't miss out). But this works for me. Also needs crafting objectives to be once-daily.

 

But yeah, the Warzones/GSF objectives being once-dailies is irksome, along with stuff like the Heroics and Rampage (if you're going to make Rampage a repeatable objective now, let me do it on multiple characters the same day!). But I wouldn't want that repeatability option removed entirely, unless there were other nerfs to LO farming or crafting factories.

 

Dons flame-proof suit and braces for impact from LO/IF farmers

[masterceil]

Planetary Heroics & daily areas should be added to that list.

 

 

The problem that they are not recognizing is that in creating the "Daily" objectives and making those once per legacy per day, they didn't create a bunch of new objectives for that category. They moved objectives that were previously infinitely repeatable into that category and changed them from repeatable per character to once per legacy per day.

 

That is why it feels more alt-punishing than it did before, as a whole.

 

.

 

Well put, as usual.

[Lord_Thorne]

Personally, I'm not sure why *any* conquest requirement really needs to be 'once per legacy.' Running several alts through conquest missions should be rewarded, since it means time and energy spent playing the game. Until this last revision, whether in an active guild or not, I usually had no trouble completing personal conquest on multiple alts - and I hardly ever do PVP, GSF, or Operations (granted, I've got a fair amount of time on my hands).

 

Edit to add: I will concur on the lockout farming maybe being 'once per character' or even 'once per legacy' - I've done it as part of my guild, but it feels unsavory somehow.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Lord_Thorne

[PennyAnn]

I like Once per Day, per Legacy for things like Operation objectives. I don't like LO farming, and that's one way to stop it. Not the way I would have chosen (I'd rather the requirement be to kill each boss in an Operation, or have a smaller number of points for each Ops boss downed so backfillers wouldn't miss out). But this works for me. Also needs crafting objectives to be once-daily.

 

But yeah, the Warzones/GSF objectives being once-dailies is irksome, along with stuff like the Heroics and Rampage (if you're going to make Rampage a repeatable objective now, let me do it on multiple characters the same day!). But I wouldn't want that repeatability option removed entirely, unless there were other nerfs to LO farming or crafting factories.

 

Dons flame-proof suit and braces for impact from LO/IF farmers

 

I won't flame you for this opinion, but I don't agree with you either. Especially when it comes to crafting. Lockout farming is going to happen, and continue to be rampant, regardless of conquest. There isn't anything you can do about that. It was also a good way to introduce players to operations that might not otherwise participate, and encouraged guilds to do the daily group finder (and multiple times). Now, if you're the best 8 in the guild, you might be brought along for a full run... but if you aren't... sorry we don't get points for repeating this effort. Just my opinion.

(edited: Even so, lockouts are still going to happen, just on a smaller scale... it didn't solve the problem at all).

 

Crafting though has been rendered completely worthless. There were a million more elegant ways to handle it, and all have been suggested so many times in the numerous feedback threads that I won't bother to repeat it. No one is going to do the immense amount of work that crafting requires now that it requires that much more for that much less points. No way. People often blow off crafting as easy, but anyone who has done it on a serious scale for conquest knows: it is expensive, unprofitable (you're basically sacrificing your credits and your play time for conquest points), and very, very time consuming unless you buy everything you need to craft with... and then it's even more expensive. You don't ever see return on that investment, either. Then the leveling of companions (at around 4.5mil apiece) comes in x 8 companions x however many characters you bother to make that effort on. Crafting was NOT an easy endeavor in mass for conquest, and certainly more difficult and expensive than the multitude of completely credit free ways of earning points. It gets trashed with no respect for the time and expense that people used to spend doing it. Now, there is no way to make it even worthwhile on a small scale. They might as well have removed it entirely.

 

.

Edited March 31, 2018 by PennyAnn

[masterceil]

I won't flame you for this opinion, but I don't agree with you either. Especially when it comes to crafting. Lockout farming is going to happen, and continue to be rampant, regardless of conquest. There isn't anything you can do about that. It was also a good way to introduce players to operations that might not otherwise participate, and encouraged guilds to do the daily group finder (and multiple times). Now, if you're the best 8 in the guild, you might be brought along for a full run... but if you aren't... sorry we don't get points for repeating this effort. Just my opinion.

(edited: Even so, lockouts are still going to happen, just on a smaller scale... it didn't solve the problem at all).

 

Crafting though has been rendered completely worthless. There were a million more elegant ways to handle it, and all have been suggested so many times in the numerous feedback threads that I won't bother to repeat it. No one is going to do the immense amount of work that crafting requires now that it requires that much more for that much less points. No way. People often blow off crafting as easy, but anyone who has done it on a serious scale for conquest knows: it is expensive, unprofitable (you're basically sacrificing your credits and your play time for conquest points), and very, very time consuming unless you buy everything you need to craft with... and then it's even more expensive. You don't ever see return on that investment, either. Then the leveling of companions (at around 4.5mil apiece) comes in x 8 companions x however many characters you bother to make that effort on. Crafting was NOT an easy endeavor in mass for conquest, and certainly more difficult and expensive than the multitude of completely credit free ways of earning points. It gets trashed with no respect for the time and expense that people used to spend doing it. Now, there is no way to make it even worthwhile on a small scale. They might as well have removed it entirely.

 

.

 

I'm not opposed to lockouts being a thing in general, I just don't like that they're farmed specifically for Conquest points. I'm all for giving your guildies a chance to see Brontes or Kephess etc, and of course lockouts are pretty important for prog teams. But they don't need to be worth 24,000 Conquest Points to the guild for ten minutes of work, and then repeated on alts six times a day. Do your lockouts for the sake of clearing the last boss (or whatever) with friends. Don't do it for Conquest.

 

And in my Jung Ma days, I participated quite heavily in craftquest, regularly soloing 400-600k points if competition was light, but I did hit seven figures a time or two in close calls. I'm aware of the effort and cost that goes into it. I still don't think it should be a viable option for Conquest - at least not on the scale that it previously was. The effort in craftquest and the rewards granted were way out of balance with effort:reward ratios in other objectives. I don't think any one Conquest objective should be spammable for six figures or more in Conquest points particularly one that can be done almost completely passively. A lot of craftquesters like to talk about the great cost and effort expended in it, but that's pretty overblown. Remember, I've been there. And I very, very, very rarely had to put in a specific effort for it. I'd just run my crew skills to gather mats over the natural course of play, and when craftquest came around, I'd build my bombs on 4-7 characters with the mats I'd gathered over the previous weeks.

 

Conquest shouldn't be about who can spend the most credits on the Crew Skills Vendor or the GTN for mats. It should be about who plays the game. Sure, some craftquesters will gnash their teeth and unsub in a huff and let BW know exactly how they feel about the new Conquest in their "why'd you leave?" survey. But I like to think that some others will get out there and do more Warzones, GSF, Operations, Flashpoints, and other activities that lead to a healthier gameplay experience for all.