Avoid marauder ffs

[nonumbers]

In Pvp, the thing to keep in mind is that half the classes in this game are ranged, which means that melee classes, such as Marauder, have more difficulty getting in close range to their target without being burst down first.

 

But then again, Marauder's have Force Charge and Obliterate.

 

First off Obliterate is a rage tree move and so only rage juggernauts and rage marauders have it.

 

Secondly it doesn't matter if you get in close when you get CCed the second that you actually get in close... it's either a case of all the other classes have too much CC or that Marauder doesn't have enough viable CC or counters to CC. I'd say it's probably the latter since I wouldn't wanna see PVP just boil down to who has the highest DPS but more down to actual skill.

Edited January 2, 2012 by nonumbers

[Viscerus]

I have a 50 marauder with some champ gear now. I definitely feel like a wimp in pvp.

 

I can usually put up better numbers on my level 13 powertech.

 

We do better in games other than huttball... but thats what... like 1/25 games.

 

We take more damage than sorcerers do at 50 and we cant do enough damage to really hurt people that badly.

 

I almost never get the 2.5k damage for a single hit medal. I was playing against an operative in pvp earlier and he absolutely WRECKED me in melee. He'd do almost half my hp with his opener and kill me before his first stun wore off.

 

on many of our abilities the cooldowns are either too long or the effects are too short.

 

Force camoflauge: 4 sec is too short. In 4 seconds of running away i get just far enough away for them to lightning bolt me or force charge me again immediately, so its worthless half the time.

 

savage kick and pommel strike also need to work in pvp. No idea why they don't.

 

considering that we are one of only 2 classes in the game (the other being sniper) that can ONLY fulfill a dps roll, it does not feel like we are being compensated with more damage, and we also die insanely easily.

[dcgregorya]

^ this is swtor player

 

v this is wow player

 

 

So,

1. play wow

2. gain imba skill in rated arenas

3. ???

4. profit

 

 

Honestly you realize that a level 18 vanguard can out DPS, out tank and out skill (via guard/harpoon) a level 50 marauder any day right? All this video shows is a rage spec stomping on level 11's and doing a mediocre job at it (not that the guy isn't good - the class itself is just very weak compared to every other class in the game).

[Teladis]

I have a 50 marauder with some champ gear now. I definitely feel like a wimp in pvp.

 

I can usually put up better numbers on my level 13 powertech.

 

We do better in games other than huttball... but thats what... like 1/25 games.

 

We take more damage than sorcerers do at 50 and we cant do enough damage to really hurt people that badly.

 

I almost never get the 2.5k damage for a single hit medal. I was playing against an operative in pvp earlier and he absolutely WRECKED me in melee. He'd do almost half my hp with his opener and kill me before his first stun wore off.

 

on many of our abilities the cooldowns are either too long or the effects are too short.

 

Force camoflauge: 4 sec is too short. In 4 seconds of running away i get just far enough away for them to lightning bolt me or force charge me again immediately, so its worthless half the time.

 

savage kick and pommel strike also need to work in pvp. No idea why they don't.

 

considering that we are one of only 2 classes in the game (the other being sniper) that can ONLY fulfill a dps roll, it does not feel like we are being compensated with more damage, and we also die insanely easily.

 

 

Be ready to get flamed, you are playing wrong so they will say.

 

 

More and more people are seeing the problem, and its time bioware started looking at the issues.

[Lysyzcyn]

switch to annihilation, its just...better

[Temeluchus]

you don't understand the environment around you and how to use it to your advantage or avoid the bad things.

 

Right...I call heavy BS on this. How do you "understand" your environment if they all know just to roll circles around a marauder? All the channeled abilities are next to USELESS as one. Ravage? USELESS, they just walk away. Force choke? USELESS, channeled and not instant.

 

This class is an utter failure. Explains why so few exist.

 

Rage spec: Force charge,battering assault,obliterate,Force Crush,Smash, step over dead body,rinse and repeat. Mix in some Force chokes as needed for Rage or stopping a ball carrier or interrupting attacks. Toss in liberal use of Obfuscate, Fury based abilites and defensive cooldowns for survivability, finish in the top 3 in damage, kills and medals,walk away satisfied with the class.

 

The environment comment was more directed at the complaint of the air vents in Huttball; if you Charge over the vent, you are going to get knocked in the air, therefore don't Charge over the vent.

 

If I had to give Maras one thing to achieve some class parity in PvP it would be either a humanoid CC,Fear based effect from Roar or a counter to knockbacks or CC. Our stuns are less than stellar for PvP and we have little to no answer for knockbacks and chain CCs.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Tilure]

Rage spec: Force charge,battering assault

ENEMY USES KB+SLOW OR STUN

walk slow or if your BF is up use untill you are in obliterate range STUNNED AGAIN

Force Crush,Smash, step over dead body if they didn't heal, kill you or move away after slowing you so that your force smash didn't hit them,rinse and repeat. Mix in some Force chokes as needed for Rage or stopping a ball carrier or interrupting attacks. Toss in liberal use of Obfuscate, Fury based abilites and defensive cool downs for survivability, finish in the top 3 in damage, kills and medals,walk away satisfied with the class.

 

Here let me fix some things for you

 

I'm not one to rage about marauder, but claiming that all is well with the class just isn't accurate. The difficulty of retaining melee range along with only one ability whose range is 30 meters makes the marauder the only class whose REALLY a MELEE class. The rest are hybrids. The survive-ability of the class is less then poor.

 

Furthermore, unlike the rest of the classes the complimentary skills between the trees are very weak. Rage has the best compliment from the anni tree, but if you don't go rage the low level perks you can unlock from the other trees are mediocre at best.

 

Marauder is beyond hard when compared with the other classes. I don't mind that it is, and I'm not one of the ones who is incapable of finishing in the top 3 on kills,damage and medals.

 

The other classes need to be harder to play (which is unlikely to change) or the marauder needs A LOT MORE DAMAGE. So that when you are good with one you do DOMINATE ANYONE WHO LETS YOU GET IN MELEE RANGE. Operatives wtfpwning a marauder is completely broken imo.

 

If you let a marauder stand within melee range for more then 3 gcds you should be DEAD. With all the knock back , cc, immobilze that range gets, plus survival skills, plus damage. Honestly, I don't care if they give the marauder more survivabilty, or if they balance out the skills. Give the offhand light saber 100% damage and accuracy and the class would be fixed.

[Temeluchus]

Here let me fix some things for you

 

I'm not one to rage about marauder, but claiming that all is well with the class just isn't accurate. The difficulty of retaining melee range along with only one ability whose range is 30 meters makes the marauder the only class whose REALLY a MELEE class. The rest are hybrids. The survive-ability of the class is less then poor.

 

Furthermore, unlike the rest of the classes the complimentary skills between the trees are very weak. Rage has the best compliment from the anni tree, but if you don't go rage the low level perks you can unlock from the other trees are mediocre at best.

 

Marauder is beyond hard when compared with the other classes. I don't mind that it is, and I'm not one of the ones who is incapable of finishing in the top 3 on kills,damage and medals.

 

The other classes need to be harder to play (which is unlikely to change) or the marauder needs A LOT MORE DAMAGE. So that when you are good with one you do DOMINATE ANYONE WHO LETS YOU GET IN MELEE RANGE. Operatives wtfpwning a marauder is completely broken imo.

 

If you let a marauder stand within melee range for more then 3 gcds you should be DEAD. With all the knock back , cc, immobilze that range gets, plus survival skills, plus damage. Honestly, I don't care if they give the marauder more survivabilty, or if they balance out the skills. Give the offhand light saber 100% damage and accuracy and the class would be fixed.

 

Do I get chain CCed or stunlocked in PvP? Yup, sometimes. But I have never,ever been locked down consistently like you are describing in your "fix". Granted, I'm Valor Rank 30, so i don't have a ton of PvP time in like others, but I think you are exaggerating a lot or I've been really,really lucky.

 

If they get separation or a slow off and Charge is down, Obliterate gets me back into melee pwn range. Force Crush slows them down enough to get them in range or kills them as they attempt to flee. A well placed 3k+ Smash crit finishes the job for me. as well, so your "fix" sounds like it goes with your preferred spec and playstyle, not mine.

 

I don't all out defend every thing about the Mara, it does need some things added to the class to put us on even footing with other classes, but it's nowhere as bad as you naysayers make it out to be.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Temeluchus

[Xerain]

I dont usually make threads because I hate getting criticized, but seriously. This is ridiculous, and im only talking about SOME of their skills in this thread. However I covered a lot of them.

 

HOLD UP! I'ma let you finish but marauder is one of the most fun classes i've played of all time!

 

I'm a lvl 44 sith marauder who went 31 in the carnage tree so far and I will go down a list of why each of their skills suck.

 

OH! 31 carnage you say. Carnage is great maybe you should learn how to use it's burst to own some people huh?

 

ravage - This is the marauders bread and butter skill, its really good. WHEN IT DOESNT USE UNNEEDED ANIMATION. Yes thats right, this skill gets bugged 80% of the time and will preform an extra bugged animation at the end preventing your character from doing anything while your target runs away. PROVE ME WRONG.

 

Oh ravage is marauders bread and butter skill? For a Carnage Marauder i thought it was Force Scream but I guess I'm wrong there.

 

Ravage is great in the carnage tree as it has a root now attached to it so you're almost garanteed to smack them hard with it. Please L2P sir.

 

Disable droid - (@#&$@ really? when will I ever use this in pvp? or even in pve? cause as soon as I use this skill on a target, my companion attacks the droid preventing this skill to be useful since mobs are usually in a group of 3.

 

It's not for PvP.

 

Force charge - Use this skill in hutball when theyre right next to that stupid wind tunnel thing, your character will enter a alternate dimension. Get ready to /stuck!

 

This really isn't a problem with Force Charge more like those stupid vents in huttball.

 

Bloodthirst/Predation - Party buffs, one is offense with a cool down of 5 mins, and the other is a defense one. These are pretty cool, but seriously? 30 rage for a powertech to ks me in pvp with? Cool! Then shout in general chat how marauders are useless. gg

 

Both of these buffs are amazing... one is more of a pve than the other though.

 

Undying Rage - Dont even get me started on this skill. This skill makes you immune to damage by 99% for 5 seconds! Seems pretty cool right? Wrong, it takes 50 PERCENT of your HP when you use it. Thats freaking ridiculous! By that time youll be dead if you dont have a healer @#$@ healing your butt or use that pvp heal pot.

 

This skill is AMAZING. Pop undying rage when you're really low on HP then pop a heal pack and you're garanteed to win a fight. 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds has helped me outlast a few people focusing me for me to kill healers and help caps in ACW, kill ball carriers, and it's helped me in many 1v2 situations where i got to wreck their face... oh i love annihilation

 

Sweeping Slash - Not only the damage is freaking terrible for this skill, the AOE range makes me want to puke in a donkeys ear.

 

Damage is fine. it talents down to 1 rage c'mon now.

 

Obfuscate - For 6 seconds this blinds my target for 90%. I call BS on this, cause I dont see myself dodging #@$@#.

 

Yeah this seems a little buggy in pvp and i'm not sure if it works all the time then.

 

Rupture - Absolutely useless unless you go in the Annihilation tree.

 

Yup.

 

Juyo/Shi Forms - Absolutly worthless now that I went in the carnage tree, I couldnt think of one reason why I would want to go into those forms.

 

Yup. Ataru Form is kinda the basis for the carnage tree bro, good job for figuring that one out.

 

Force Camo - Pretty cool skill. But the only point to this skill is running away. Why wouldnt you want to attack someone starting with force charge to gain rage? This stealth only lasts for 4 FREAKIN SECONDS.

 

Amazing skill in pvp it keeps me from dying so much, stealth away LOS and heal up then get back in action. Either that or use it to gap close on a sniper/gunslinger.

 

Crippling slash - Pretty much is a slow that I have to be right next to my target to use. Why do I need this skill? I have about ~4 skills that immobilize my target. (Force choke, salvage, deadly throw, force charge)

 

Crippling slash is fine ***.

 

Gore - I like this skill, and I really with I used it more often, the only problem is that im too busy trying to gain rage to even use it. Using Gore & bloodthirst is the ONLY way I can obtain 2500+ dmg in warzones.

 

Gore is amazing learn when to pop it and how you have any rage problems with this class is beyond me. Massacre should cost 1 less rage, Force Scream should cost 2 less rage, you should be gaining a rage once every 6 seconds, jump grants one more rage talented... IDK man you're having some problems.

 

Berzerk - Too busy using party buffs so party members can get kills and call marauders worthless.

 

Uh Ataru Form Berserk is pretty damn good. Burst out some damage and each thing only costs what 1 rage? OOOooo greatness.

 

Go Annihilation spec and you'll see how great the berserk is.

 

Force choke - Finally our first CC that we get! OH WE GET IT AT LVL ~24. COOL.

 

Yeah why we don't get this earlier who knows.

 

Force Scream - Sure wish this skill stunned in pvp like the description says it does to weak mobs. The only skill which I can achieve 2500+ dmg with gore + bloodthirster vs a lowbie.

 

Get better gear and you won't need bloodthirst to do this.

 

Battering Assault - Gains 6 rage when I use it, pretty cool, I wish it replaced the 'Assault' skill that we get at level one. But the cooldown is to huge even with the mastery int he carnage tree.

 

Use both assault and battering assault DUH! seriously your rage generation is fine.

 

Vicious Stance - Threw off my hotbar as soon as I got massacre.

 

UM yup, just like i took force scream off mine once i got annihilation.

 

Pommel / Salvage kick - I was just waiting to get to these skills! Well these are pretty much like chain skills in aion. You stun/slow a mob and you can trigger these skills. And they do pretty good damage. The only problem is.... they dont work in pvp! WOOH.

 

And?

 

Some will troll me, some may agree with me. Just choose a different class. I beg you.

 

Seriously you trolled yourself with this thread you bad

[Lompish]

I dont usually make threads because I hate getting criticized, but seriously. This is ridiculous, and im only talking about SOME of their skills in this thread. However I covered a lot of them.

 

I'm a lvl 44 sith marauder who went 31 in the carnage tree so far and I will go down a list of why each of their skills suck.

 

ravage - This is the marauders bread and butter skill, its really good. WHEN IT DOESNT USE UNNEEDED ANIMATION. Yes thats right, this skill gets bugged 80% of the time and will preform an extra bugged animation at the end preventing your character from doing anything while your target runs away. PROVE ME WRONG.

 

Disable droid - (@#&$@ really? when will I ever use this in pvp? or even in pve? cause as soon as I use this skill on a target, my companion attacks the droid preventing this skill to be useful since mobs are usually in a group of 3.

 

Force charge - Use this skill in hutball when theyre right next to that stupid wind tunnel thing, your character will enter a alternate dimension. Get ready to /stuck!

 

Bloodthirst/Predation - Party buffs, one is offense with a cool down of 5 mins, and the other is a defense one. These are pretty cool, but seriously? 30 rage for a powertech to ks me in pvp with? Cool! Then shout in general chat how marauders are useless. gg

 

Undying Rage - Dont even get me started on this skill. This skill makes you immune to damage by 99% for 5 seconds! Seems pretty cool right? Wrong, it takes 50 PERCENT of your HP when you use it. Thats freaking ridiculous! By that time youll be dead if you dont have a healer @#$@ healing your butt or use that pvp heal pot.

 

Sweeping Slash - Not only the damage is freaking terrible for this skill, the AOE range makes me want to puke in a donkeys ear.

 

Obfuscate - For 6 seconds this blinds my target for 90%. I call BS on this, cause I dont see myself dodging #@$@#.

 

Rupture - Absolutely useless unless you go in the Annihilation tree.

 

Juyo/Shi Forms - Absolutly worthless now that I went in the carnage tree, I couldnt think of one reason why I would want to go into those forms.

 

Force Camo - Pretty cool skill. But the only point to this skill is running away. Why wouldnt you want to attack someone starting with force charge to gain rage? This stealth only lasts for 4 FREAKIN SECONDS.

 

Crippling slash - Pretty much is a slow that I have to be right next to my target to use. Why do I need this skill? I have about ~4 skills that immobilize my target. (Force choke, salvage, deadly throw, force charge)

 

Gore - I like this skill, and I really with I used it more often, the only problem is that im too busy trying to gain rage to even use it. Using Gore & bloodthirst is the ONLY way I can obtain 2500+ dmg in warzones.

 

Berzerk - Too busy using party buffs so party members can get kills and call marauders worthless.

 

Force choke - Finally our first CC that we get! OH WE GET IT AT LVL ~24. COOL.

 

Force Scream - Sure wish this skill stunned in pvp like the description says it does to weak mobs. The only skill which I can achieve 2500+ dmg with gore + bloodthirster vs a lowbie.

 

Battering Assault - Gains 6 rage when I use it, pretty cool, I wish it replaced the 'Assault' skill that we get at level one. But the cooldown is to huge even with the mastery int he carnage tree.

 

Vicious Stance - Threw off my hotbar as soon as I got massacre.

 

Pommel / Salvage kick - I was just waiting to get to these skills! Well these are pretty much like chain skills in aion. You stun/slow a mob and you can trigger these skills. And they do pretty good damage. The only problem is.... they dont work in pvp! WOOH.

 

Some will troll me, some may agree with me. Just choose a different class. I beg you.

 

Well, I partly agree with you. The marauder is not close to being as good as any other class no, BUT if played well, ur a freakin machine and its true! What I really agree with you is that we should get our force choke earlier, level 14 should be good. And that the force scream would stun in pvp aswell. Maybe the slam ability should stun aswell, just not that long, 1-2 seconds is enough.

[Tilure]

Do I get chain CCed or stunlocked in PvP? Yup, sometimes. But I have never,ever been locked down consistently like you are describing in your "fix". Granted, I'm Valor Rank 30, so i don't have a ton of PvP time in like others, but I think you are exaggerating a lot or I've been really,really lucky.

 

If they get separation or a slow off and Charge is down, Obliterate gets me back into melee pwn range. Force Crush slows them down enough to get them in range or kills them as they attempt to flee. A well placed 3k+ Smash crit finishes the job for me. as well, so your "fix" sounds like it goes with your preferred spec and playstyle, not mine.

 

I don't all out defend every thing about the Mara, it does need some things added to the class to put us on even footing with other classes, but it's nowhere as bad as you naysayers make it out to be.

 

Your post simple make it sound like the marauder is win sauce and the only reason players complain is because they are terrible. Which is a dramatic exaggeration. I simple altered your exaggeration to include the reality (also exaggerated to be in line with your exaggerations).

 

Like i said in my post, I don't find the marauder to be impossible to play. Is it more challenging (and thus not boring) then the 1-2-3 button other classes? Yes. Does that mean it isn't currently the weakest of all the classes in pvp. IMO, it is currently the weakest of all the classes in pvp and it needs to be remedied. I've outlined numerous solutions in previous posts. What I provided was simply another. The marauder is the weakest because its damage isn't overwhelming even when applied correctly, its good, on par with the other classes, but not overwhelming. The marauder has lower survive-ability and less CC. Thus, to remedy the situation, provide more cc/survive ability or up the damage.

 

If your play style isn't to be mobile and move into melee range so you can crush your opponent with light saber and force fury... then I guess yes our play styles must be dramatically different. Which is what the marauder is advertised to be btw.

 

On a side note, this is really a pvp only thing for me. Anyone who complains about the marauder in pve does need to take a look at their skills and try harder. In pve the marauder is more then fine, alll 3 specs can do just fine against multiple strongs.

read the codex entry.

 

"specializing in swift movement and acrobatics to obliterate foes before they can react". Not as advertised

 

"subduing cowering foes with lightsaber strikes and crushing them with the force".

Not as advertised.

 

Unless in the rage case crushing them with the force just means using force crush on them, and lightsaber strikes means tickling them to build rage.

[Nightsmoke]

Arn't ravage and scream suppose to stun the target but even in pvp they don't for me.

 

Agreed I get CC mutiple ways by different classes why can't our Force Scream stun our targets?

[Viscerus]

Every other class has a stun or a knockback/knockdown (actually they have both). Marauders are the only class with neither.

 

We lack the survivability of most other classes because we lack heals (I don't think we should have them) and we don't have much armor or defense.

 

If you are not going to be very survivable and you are not going to have the tools that every other class has then you should have the most dps because you have none of the utility that the other classes have.

 

a lot of our abilities need a tweak.

 

Take Ravage: it does a lot of damage and it is great, but even if you talent it to root the person, probably 30-40% of the time that person just does their knockback and interrupts it. If you go up another tree to make it uninterruptible, it no longer roots, and they just amble away while you wave your lightsabers in the air. You shouldn't be able to be knockbacked when performing ravage.

 

Force Camo: I pop it but half the time people still shoot me while I'm invisible and running away. and 4 seconds of +30% run speed while invisible doesn't even get you far enough to be out of range of a ranged stun or force charge from the guy you were fighting.

 

Massacre: it should replace Vicious Slash, but it doesn't really, because if you are auto-hitting with ataru, vicious slash does more damage. For a talent that you have to spend 31 points to reach... Massacre should do as much base damage as Vicious Slash and give the Ataru extra hit. You paid enough to get there.

 

Force Choke: either we need a REAL stun or force choke needs to no longer be channeled.

 

Smash: should do a knockback/knockdown.

 

Those changes would go a long way toward putting us on par with everyone else.

 

We also should probably have heavy armor.

 

Just think... Mercs get heavy armor, they get a knockback, they get a ranged stun, and they can even heal.

 

the only other Class that can fill no other role but pure DPS (sniper) gets a knockback. I believe they also get a stun. They also wear medium armor but they are RANGED.

 

Marauders are great and i love them... But they need work man. They are not on par with the other classes.

 

 

I liked the suggestion that our offhand does 100% damage and ahs 100% accuracy. You could dump every other suggestion of they just did that and it should even us out.

[ZakPreston]

Marauders are more like Feral Druids in pre-WotLk: have mediocre melee damage, little to no CC, good mobility and low synergy with other classes. The saddest part of Marauder is that they have almost no utility in group-PvP:

• can't pushback
  
• have no stuns
  
• too little disables (1 aoe fear)
  

 

What can bring Mara to the table against a DD-Jugger? Guess, an arguably a bit higher DPS only, but lacks taunts, stun and pushback with lesser survivability.

 

I'm very disappointed in Mara-PvP, and i regret I haven't chosen Jugg, who is extremely viable in DD and Tank role.

Edited January 3, 2012 by ZakPreston

[Planar]

Disable droid - (@#&$@ really? when will I ever use this in pvp? or even in pve? cause as soon as I use this skill on a target, my companion attacks the droid preventing this skill to be useful since mobs are usually in a group of 3.

 

Um no they dont, turn of their AoE attacks because its their AoE on the target next to the stunned droid disabling them, the only time I have seen a companion do what you said with AoEs off is when they are already on the target and you try and disable it. In which case you tell them to attack another target, then disable it.

[TimtTim]

^ agree.. only reason im still playing this class is because of the story..

 

Signed!