Dishonest game. Use of trading robots and friends lists by players.

[irratare]

Dear developers. I'm sure you can figure out how to track down and limit the activity of trading robots. It's unpleasant to see how robots buy thousands of goods to expose huge prices. There is a feeling that you are not interested. I also ask you to limit the use of trading robots by players. The robot instantly learns about my product and immediately places its with a lower price. With this approach, I always trade almost at a loss. I'm not able to compete with a robot that is online all the time. There is another problem. It is necessary to create for players the ability to block the addition of their characters to the friends list. The competitor who adds my character to the sheet always knows when I started and finished working with Gtn. I do not like such knowledge. The robot also uses this to post products after my logout. And most importantly, the main thing is that not the problem of people and robots, who buy thousands of positions to sell them 5 times more expensive. It looks ugly on the GTN. This harms your reputation.

Thank you.

[Arma_Dolus]

Well, capitalism works that way. Everybody's been undercut before. Stop whining. Not trying to be rude, just saying it's futile cos it's not gonna change.

[SteveTheCynic]

The competitor who adds my character to the sheet always knows when I started and finished working with Gtn.

It's difficult to find the words to express how *wrong* this statement is. All that person can possibly know is when you're in and out of the game. Are you seriously trying to say that all you ever do in the game is play around with the GTN? That you never, ever, ever do anything else? Seems like a waste if you ask me.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Trading robots? You mean players - whales? OR actual bots programmed to buy things automatically when below certain value?

[PorsaLindahl]

I normally only wander into this section every few weeks or so since I'm not a Cartel Market supporter.

 

First problem here is your post has no relevance to the Cartel Market.

 

Second problem, you're whining about something that has been happening since the inception of auction houses, and the like, in video games.

 

Third: Someone's always going to undercut you. You need to determine if you're willing to return the favor or be patient and stand your ground on your price.

 

I sell some items steadily for 4-5 mil, even when someone comes along and lists for 3.5 mil (which is below market cost for the materials) just to make a quicker sale, I maintain my prices. My items still sell (usually within a few hours of listing), and those that undercut have lost out because of their impatience.

Edited December 24, 2017 by PorsaLindahl

[JattaGin]

Do you mean "robots" as in people who have no real life and spend their whole day standing in front of the GTN just to save or make a few credits more at the expense of having a life? Yeah, I would like to see those people go out once in a while, too. It's better for their health and sanity. If you mean actual bots, I'd like some proof that they exist and do the things you explained in the OP, especially the part about tracking your GTN activities.

[Parane]

Capitalism working as intended. Welcome to reality.

[irratare]

It's difficult to find the words to express how *wrong* this statement is. All that person can possibly know is when you're in and out of the game. Are you seriously trying to say that all you ever do in the game is play around with the GTN? That you never, ever, ever do anything else? Seems like a waste if you ask me.

 

I'm not sure that this capitalism is sanctioned by Bioware. And if it's not, I have a chance. Nytie here is not to blame, I have experienced so much that I never noah already.

Edited December 24, 2017 by irratare

[irratare]

Trading robots? You mean players - whales? OR actual bots programmed to buy things automatically when below certain value?

 

The company has a team of specialists. Let them work and decide. All I know is also using a friend sheet, that in 5 seconds after I leave, the computer comes in and puts the same goods on one credit below. I would like to be able to be invisible.

 

And yes, dammit, very often I only have time to work with the GTN. Including because I'm competing with robots, hell.

[PorsaLindahl]

The company has a team of specialists. Let them work and decide. All I know is also using a friend sheet, that in 5 seconds after I leave, the computer comes in and puts the same goods on one credit below. I would like to be able to be invisible.

 

And yes, dammit, very often I only have time to work with the GTN. Including because I'm competing with robots, hell.

 

I think somebody has a tinfoil hat. Or needs one?

[irratare]

Trading robots? You mean players - whales? OR actual bots programmed to buy things automatically when below certain value?

 

I was very long on the GTN. I see the work of the players and who earns what. I will not touch those who use robots to collect tens of thousands of pieces of materials, These robots probably belong to Bioware and they are needed, without them there will not be so many high-level modifications and such low prices. But there are bots that come in PVP, flashpoints, and GTN. About them and I say. There are also players that use robots to compete with me and there are just robots that buy out thousands of modifications, for example, and expose them from 70,000 to 299,000cr. You can determine their work by observing how quickly they do it. For example, the robot bigblak before its owner was not prompted by the admin, removed and re-exposed 100 positions in 10 seconds. Knowing exactly what price I set and when i logout and logoff.

 

robots in pvp and flashpoints are also not welcome. Then they stand, then run around next to each other but do not shoot, in any case they lower the chances of the team. There is a large company of programmers who make these robots and sell for money. One could already deal with them, in a capitalist manner.

[irratare]

I normally only wander into this section every few weeks or so since I'm not a Cartel Market supporter.

.

 

I repeat, I do not whine. I'm just trying. If you do not try to shoot, you will never hit the target. And with the first problem, you are right. I thought for a long time and did not understand where it should be placed. Given that English is not a native language for me. If the administrator wishes he will transfer the branch. But it looks like robots are calm about this.

 

And yes, I also earn quite well, but I could spend less time on it and fight more if there were no two unfair competitors playing.

[irratare]

I think somebody has a tinfoil hat. Or needs one?

 

Yes, definitely, I would be glad to have a foil-sized cap with my whole body ;

[irratare]

Do you mean "robots" as i.....

 

I understand your skepticism because I myself sometimes thought so. And I myself sometimes sit all day in front of the GTN. Therefore, I notice. Robots use templates for pumping, for creating names, for pricing, and most importantly, they act too fast. No person is able to change positions so quickly for all goods and all day and night. Moreover, if I put one product at a loss-making price, the robot will already stop. He does not understand how a person does not adapt. I note that some people use more than one computer, account and character at the same time. Scan positions can be one and expose another. I will not advertise guys what they do and sell it, but they have such scripts on the site, it's all cheap, although it requires a long setup.

[Alec_Fortescue]

The company has a team of specialists. Let them work and decide. All I know is also using a friend sheet, that in 5 seconds after I leave, the computer comes in and puts the same goods on one credit below. I would like to be able to be invisible.

 

And yes, dammit, very often I only have time to work with the GTN. Including because I'm competing with robots, hell.

 

I can assure that those people who undercut every 10 minute are no lifes who just check gtn every 10 minutes to undercut. I actually knew a guy who had a cozy work as an estate agent and ran swtor in background while at work and all he did was craft and play gtn a bit.

[Mubrak]

Trading robots? You mean players - whales?

 

Well, in the slavic languages "robota" means thrall or forced laborer, so that's actually a fitting description for the stereotype chinese gold farmer.

 

As for automatizing it, no. without an API providing access to the GTN database, a "bot" would have a hard time finding out an item's listed values to decide whether to buy or underbid. So those "robots" quite certainly are players who either primarly play "GTN" or actually do this for a living so their employer can sell the credits to pampered westerners.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Mubrak

[SteveTheCynic]

I'm not sure that this capitalism is sanctioned by Bioware. And if it's not, I have a chance. Nytie here is not to blame, I have experienced so much that I never noah already.

What exactly does this have to do with my post that you quoted?

 

 

The company has a team of specialists. Let them work and decide. All I know is also using a friend sheet, that in 5 seconds after I leave, the computer comes in and puts the same goods on one credit below. I would like to be able to be invisible.

How? How do you know this? If you're logged out, how do you know that the other player has posted goods one credit below only five seconds after you logged out?

 

Calm down. Go out and do something in the real world for a while. Look at trees, smell the sky, ogle pretty girls (if that's your thing), whatever, but get *away* from the game for a couple of days. You are sounding a bit paranoid.

[irratare]

 

How? How do you know this? If you're logged out, how do you know that the other player has posted goods one credit below only five seconds after you logged out?

 

First of all, I know. It's very simple, I logout again right after I logofft. And this robot was already there, and already all one hundred modifications had a different price. And so it was several times when the price changed at once and over much. The speed of the robot is much more human. But after the administrators talked to the owner of the robot, he began to do so only sometimes.

 

Secondly. Each of us has the right to personal opinion. We here express it. But am I saying something about your psyche? I hope you will continue to enjoy more traditional ways. It seems to be paranoid because I am here and again explaining my position to you and other skeptics. However, in the game, I just trade at a loss for a dozen positions, and it does not bother me at all. Last three months. And robots in PVP, they also seem to me? Flying, with no-cd? Doing 0 damage but healing per million hits? You type in the search for the bot swtor , buddiwing for example. This ends our useless discussion.

[Mubrak]

I hope you will continue to enjoy more traditional ways. It seems to be paranoid because I am here and again explaining my position to you and other skeptics. However, in the game, I just trade at a loss for a dozen positions, and it does not bother me at all. Last three months. And robots in PVP, they also seem to me? Flying, with no-cd? Doing 0 damage but healing per million hits? You type in the search for the bot swtor , buddiwing for example. This ends our useless discussion.

 

Everything involving a player's current position and direction/speed-vector isn't that much of a problem to manipulate. It needs to be communicated to the server (and other players) somehow, so once you figured out how that data is sent, you can change it. Manipulating cooldowns or damage/healing isn't possible without actually hacking the game servers themselves, though. Not saying it's impossible, but at this point the hacker would be silly to use this just to cheat in pvp.

 

The GTN is another story. Notice that little lag-spike everytime you switch pages in the search result? This is the server sending you all the data for that one page. So a sniper-bot on the GTN would need to constantly search the gtn, scroll through all pages, intercept the data sent from the server and stick it together to get a complete list of the search results, before it can actually react on bargains. Again not impossible, but quite complex and only feasible for a few specific items. A bot designed specifically to underbid whatever *YOU* listed would be a masterpiece (although a silly one.)

 

Still, such bots, while possible, would be a lot of effort, that could be easily and more efficiently done by a couple of wage-slaves "playing" the GTN in 12hour shifts to earn just enough money to feed their families. This is one of the cases where first world problems clash with real ones. For a human, it's easy to learn which items are the most profitable, and which other players to watch for bargains or a price guideline.

 

 

In a nutshell - don't complain about players underbiding you suspiciously quickly. Complain about players listing items on the GTN at ridiculous prices, causing other players to buy credits from goldsellers, who in turn pay the guy who constantly underbids you.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Mubrak

[Distracted]

Dear developers. I'm sure you can figure out how to track down and limit the activity of trading robots. It's unpleasant to see how robots buy thousands of goods to expose huge prices. There is a feeling that you are not interested. I also ask you to limit the use of trading robots by players. The robot instantly learns about my product and immediately places its with a lower price. With this approach, I always trade almost at a loss. I'm not able to compete with a robot that is online all the time. There is another problem. It is necessary to create for players the ability to block the addition of their characters to the friends list. The competitor who adds my character to the sheet always knows when I started and finished working with Gtn. I do not like such knowledge. The robot also uses this to post products after my logout. And most importantly, the main thing is that not the problem of people and robots, who buy thousands of positions to sell them 5 times more expensive. It looks ugly on the GTN. This harms your reputation.

Thank you.

 

I'm not a robot. Also we have just had two crafting conquest weeks very close together, so that's where all the crafting materials went.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I just don't buy much from the GTN these days anymore because of that inflation.

I'm happy with what I have, and that's just enough for me.

Traders won't get many pennies from me.

 

But - the other side is that most people need to learn how to become like that. To be self-sufficient.

Greed is something Capitalism teraches very, very well.

 

On a meta scale, things become transformated into kinds of "suction apparatus" sucking money out of people. Through selling items.

 

This does not only work in RL, but in small scale on the GTN as well.

People use use this kind of apparatus are interested in amassing a lot of meterial wealth. To them, those amassing spiritual wealth are most dangerous, because a state of self-sufficientness (right word ?) is a state of denying money to them. Spirituall wealth = no money = danger for materialists.

 

So, looking at the GTN, one can very nicely see several sets of psychologies of people work. It would be a nice field study on the psychological behaviour ofd participants of the GTN and in other similar things in other MMOs.

[irratare]

I just don't buy much from the GTN these days anymore because of that inflation..

 

It's clear. Some players therefore do not use any gain, and play the game extremely slowly. I did the same thing for a hero - I did not buy a single thing on a GT, I took only what the game was giving, and that's possible. And as a free player I spent a year and a half. Trade - another, and interesting, part of the game. And the aesthetics of the heroes has the right to exist. That is, beautiful things that cost money. And a beautiful house, I have the right to furnish as I am interested. And it costs money, and not at all 2 million a day. If you really want to be free from the influences of the material world, you should not play games. This is bad for karma. Murders, even virtual ones - this is what you will dream after death.

[irratare]

I just don't buy much fr ...

 

You are trying to understand how real this is, but it is not essential. There are people who are able to track the frequency of requests for GTN from specific IP addresses. They are my hope and will do it. And then regardless of the method it becomes clear whether I'm right or not. I'm not even interested in the method if they start doing their work. In general, from technical support I was asked not to discuss more bots.

[SteveTheCynic]

There are people who are able to track the frequency of requests for GTN from specific IP addresses.

Of course there are (and they all work for Bioware/EA). But so what? The idea of one IP (v4) address corresponding unambiguously to one computer belongs to the 1980s, and hasn't been relevant to anything at all since the first ISPs launched dialup service in the early 1990s.

 

If I want to change my public IP address, all I have to do is tell my router to reboot, or, more simply, unplug the fibre for a few seconds. When it reconnects, it will get a different IP address. So that means that my computer isn't linked to a single IP address. And of course the next person on my ISP to reboot / reconnect his router might get my old address, so the IP address isn't linked to a single computer.

 

And of course the presence of NAT on various scales means that even at a single time, a single IP address might correspond to a large number of different computers ALL AT ONCE.

[irratare]

Of course there are (and they all work for Bioware/EA). ...

 

You are so clever and know so much. Try yourself to figure out how you can still track down the robot. And then think of how to disguise. And then figure out how to track down the disguise. I'm sure you will succeed. You can argue so very long. By the way, that very robot behaves now quite like a man. Changes prices twice a day. And not every minute as before. All after talking with tech support. Is it a strange coincidence?