Covert Energy helmet. It really is the time.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Will we ever get a covert energy helmet to hide those pesky hoods on our armor sets?

[SteveTheCynic]

Will we ever get a covert energy helmet to hide those pesky hoods on our armor sets?

Ask for what you want. What you want is a way to hide hoods. Does it really matter how the hood gets hidden? No, I don't think so. So what you want is a "Hide Hood" checkbox like the "Hide Head Slot" checkbox. Or, at least, that would achieve the goal you seek to achieve.

 

The Covert Energy helmet is missing for a reason - it would permit non-subs to have an invisible helmet without buying the Hide Head Slot unlock.

[beattlebilly]

Not sure if they ever will give us a hood-toggle, so Covert Energy helmet that makes the hoods go down is an excellent idea. As to "but F2P won't have to buy Hide Helmet", make it a subscriber reward.

[CrutchCricket]

The Covert Energy helmet is missing for a reason - it would permit non-subs to have an invisible helmet without buying the Hide Head Slot unlock.

And? Make it direct sale, BoP if you're that worried, same price as the unlock. Or more.

 

Covert Head Slot or Hood toggle, whatever. It should've been in the game by now. Crapping on f2p is not a valid reason for denying us.

Edited November 14, 2017 by CrutchCricket

[SteveTheCynic]

Not sure if they ever will give us a hood-toggle, so Covert Energy helmet that makes the hoods go down is an excellent idea. As to "but F2P won't have to buy Hide Helmet", make it a subscriber reward.

So you think that although they won't give us a hood-hider toggle, they will give us a functional equivalent? Um.

 

Does. Not. Compute.

[CrutchCricket]

So you think that although they won't give us a hood-hider toggle, they will give us a functional equivalent? Um.

 

Does. Not. Compute.

Covert Energy headgear involves making an invisible helmet. Who knows what coding a hood toggle that should work independently of headgear requires? Code-wise it's not a functional equivalent since a hood toggle should theoretically not mess with showing a headband one way or the other (for the one rando who'd care about headbands).

 

From that standpoint, hood toggle is preferable. But given the limited resources at play here, I'd settle for the covert piece. Whatever's easier to code that makes hoods go up and down.

Edited November 14, 2017 by CrutchCricket

[SteveTheCynic]

Covert Energy headgear involves making an invisible helmet. Who knows what coding a hood toggle that should work independently of headgear requires? Code-wise it's not a functional equivalent since a hood toggle should theoretically not mess with showing a headband one way or the other (for the one rando who'd care about headbands).

 

From that standpoint, hood toggle is preferable. But given the limited resources at play here, I'd settle for the covert piece. Whatever's easier to code that makes hoods go up and down.

Sorry, but it *IS* functionally equivalent. Well, no, it isn't., but the reason it isn't is nothing to do with the code. (I work as a programmer - for more than a quarter-century by now - and in the trade, as in real life, "functionally equivalent" means "does the same thing or as near as makes no nevermind", that is, as seen from the point of view of a user. In this context, "a user" means "a player of the game".)

 

A Covert Energy Helmet is an inferior solution to the problem. People want to be able to hide their hood. I get that. (There is a separate debate about "hide" versus "put up or down", but I won't touch that here.) A "Hide Hood" toggle like "Hide Head Slot" would do that and ONLY that. It probably should be a three-position toggle, though:

* Always hide

* According to the equipped/shown helmet(1)

* Always show

 

A Covert Energy Helmet would not allow me to wear the head armour of my choice AND have control over the hood. I would *have* to have a bare head. I would not be able to, for example, put the Silent Ghost set's hood down (or, at least, to hide it) while still showing its helmet. So the toggle gets my vote, even one that just replaces the "hides hood" property of helmets.

 

(1) This is, I agree, debatable. There's a pretty good case for just ditching the "hides hood" property of helmets in favour of a simple yes/no "Hide Hood" toggle-checkbox-thing.

[CrutchCricket]

A Covert Energy Helmet is an inferior solution to the problem. People want to be able to hide their hood. I get that. (There is a separate debate about "hide" versus "put up or down", but I won't touch that here.) A "Hide Hood" toggle like "Hide Head Slot" would do that and ONLY that. It probably should be a three-position toggle, though:

* Always hide

* According to the equipped/shown helmet(1)

* Always show

 

A Covert Energy Helmet would not allow me to wear the head armour of my choice AND have control over the hood. I would *have* to have a bare head. I would not be able to, for example, put the Silent Ghost set's hood down (or, at least, to hide it) while still showing its helmet. So the toggle gets my vote, even one that just replaces the "hides hood" property of helmets.

 

(1) This is, I agree, debatable. There's a pretty good case for just ditching the "hides hood" property of helmets in favour of a simple yes/no "Hide Hood" toggle-checkbox-thing.

My question is, you think the three setting hood toggle would be easier to code than a simple invisible helmet? I'm highly skeptical. Yes the former would be prefereable, for more than just headbands. But I'm expecting bare minimum here, and the Covert Energy Helmet is the bare minimum they'd need to achieve most of the effect.

 

If they go with the hood toggle, then of course, it's teh better deal.

Edited November 14, 2017 by CrutchCricket

[psandak]

My question is, you think the three setting hood toggle would be easier to code than a simple invisible helmet? I'm highly skeptical. Yes the former would be prefereable, for more than just headbands. But I'm expecting bare minimum here, and the Covert Energy Helmet is the bare minimum they'd need to achieve most of the effect.

 

If they go with the hood toggle, then of course, it's teh better deal.

 

I agree. While a toggle would be better an invisible head slot piece is a good alternative.

 

I also agree , that making the item a CM sale that costs more than the F2P hide head slot unlock, would mitigate its use in that vein. Sure some wealthy sub could purchase helmet for a F2P friend but they could do the same with the unlock too.

[SteveTheCynic]

My question is, you think the three setting hood toggle would be easier to code than a simple invisible helmet? I'm highly skeptical. Yes the former would be prefereable, for more than just headbands. But I'm expecting bare minimum here, and the Covert Energy Helmet is the bare minimum they'd need to achieve most of the effect.

 

If they go with the hood toggle, then of course, it's teh better deal.

Of course an invisible helmet would be easier to do than changing code. It's an object with no mesh, no skin texture, and a dopey-looking inventory icon, and the "hides hood" flag set in the object information database. And some suitable words in English, French, and German. And a bunch of testing to make sure it works correctly when you put it on a class companion, on a cross-faction companion (Aric Jorgan on a Sith, for example), on an Alliance companion (Lana and co), on a post-recruitment returned class companion (Torian after Chapter XIV), and so on.

 

That is, it is by no means free. Of course, all that testing would have to be done in spades if they did the toggle. And there would be a bunch of code changes on the server and the client and UI changes on the client, and ...

 

But I really question the value of advocating an objectively inferior solution(1). Advocate the thing that's wanted. We (and I include myself) want a way to hide the hoods on our gear. Advocate that, and let them decide what is the best way to achieve that.

 

(1) I also question the value of advocating a specific solution rather than advocating "whatever solution you think is best to us wanting to be able to hide our hoods, and here are some possibilities".

[CrutchCricket]

But I really question the value of advocating an objectively inferior solution(1). Advocate the thing that's wanted. We (and I include myself) want a way to hide the hoods on our gear. Advocate that, and let them decide what is the best way to achieve that.

 

(1) I also question the value of advocating a specific solution rather than advocating "whatever solution you think is best to us wanting to be able to hide our hoods, and here are some possibilities".

Depends on how you look at it? Is it more probable that you'll get what you want by:

1) asking for an effect which can be accomplished a few different ways, some easier than others or

2) asking for the easiest way to accomplish that effect.

 

The perception is that dev resources are limited, whether by manpower, money, giving a damn etc. So while under normal circumstances 2) would be illogically settling on a lesser return, in these circumstances 2) might be seen as more likely to happen than 1). From the other side of things, I can confirm that when you're overworked and/or apathetic, simple-looking requests that are actually simple are more liable to actually get done and done quickly, as opposed to larger requests that may have a simple solution embedded in them.

Edited November 14, 2017 by CrutchCricket

[Ratajack]

Not sure if they ever will give us a hood-toggle, so Covert Energy helmet that makes the hoods go down is an excellent idea. As to "but F2P won't have to buy Hide Helmet", make it a subscriber reward.

 

Making it a subscriber reward does not prevent that subscriber from going preferred and getting around having to buy the "hide head slot" unlock.

[Ratajack]

And? Make it direct sale, BoP if you're that worried, same price as the unlock. Or more.

 

Covert Head Slot or Hood toggle, whatever. It should've been in the game by now. Crapping on f2p is not a valid reason for denying us.

 

Direct sale?

 

I would be willing to wager almost anything that if they did implement a covert energy helmet, it would be a platinum item in a pack.

[SteveTheCynic]

Depends on how you look at it? Is it more probable that you'll get what you want by:

1) asking for an effect which can be accomplished a few different ways, some easier than others or

2) asking for the easiest way to accomplish that effect.

 

The perception is that dev resources are limited, whether by manpower, money, giving a damn etc. So while under normal circumstances 2) would be illogically settling on a lesser return, in these circumstances 2) might be seen as more likely to happen than 1). From the other side of things, I can confirm that when you're overworked and/or apathetic, simple-looking requests that are actually simple are more liable to actually get done and done quickly, as opposed to larger requests that may have a simple solution embedded in them.

Except that a Covert Energy Helmet *doesn't* achieve the effect that I'm seeking. It would hide my helmet, and also hide the hood. I want a way to have my helmet visible(1) AND not have my hood visible. A Covert Energy Helmet doesn't do that.

 

(1) There are some helmetish things that I like the look of (not all headbands) that don't hide hoods. None of the "earpiece and microphone" headsets hide hoods, for example.

[CrutchCricket]

Except that a Covert Energy Helmet *doesn't* achieve the effect that I'm seeking. It would hide my helmet, and also hide the hood. I want a way to have my helmet visible(1) AND not have my hood visible. A Covert Energy Helmet doesn't do that.

No, it doesn't. Again the difference between us is just on what we're willing to settle on. I'd rather have the covert helmet than nothing, but would of course prefer the full hood toggle as you've described it. For you it's full hood toggle or nothing.

[SourOrange]

Ask for what you want. What you want is a way to hide hoods. Does it really matter how the hood gets hidden? No, I don't think so. So what you want is a "Hide Hood" checkbox like the "Hide Head Slot" checkbox. Or, at least, that would achieve the goal you seek to achieve.

 

The Covert Energy helmet is missing for a reason - it would permit non-subs to have an invisible helmet without buying the Hide Head Slot unlock.

 

Dude, have you seen how much that stuff goes for on the GTN? A F2P player can have what, 250k at any given time? And preferred can have about 350k.

 

If a covert helmet happened to become a thing, it would never sell for under 900k, and that's an extreme lowball. A F2P or preferred player wouldn't have a dream of getting that item unless they spent real money for the item in the shop, or the pack that the item came in (hopefully not though)- so your excuse seems disingenuous at best.

Edited November 15, 2017 by SourOrange

[SteveTheCynic]

Dude, have you seen how much that stuff goes for on the GTN? A F2P player can have what, 250k at any given time? And preferred can have about 350k.

 

If a covert helmet happened to become a thing, it would never sell for under 900k, and that's an extreme lowball. A F2P or preferred player wouldn't have a dream of getting that item unless they spent real money for the item in the shop, or the pack that the item came in (hopefully not though)- so your excuse seems disingenuous at best.

It's almost certainly the reason it wasn't introduced with the rest of the Covert Energy pieces back in the day. Now? Not so much, I agree. (The effect of the Covert Energy pieces could have been reached by "Hide X slot" checkboxes much like the "Hide Head slot" checkbox, but they chose to do it with armour pieces. Because they already had the HHS box, they didn't introduce the Covert Energy helmet - the goal of having no visible helmet could already be achieved a different way.)

 

But my objection to a hood-hiding CV helmet isn't based on that. I want to be able to wear my choice of helmet *and* have control over the visibility of my hood. (If the CV helmet *isn't* hood-hiding, then it serves no purpose whatsoever to add it to the game.)

[SourOrange]

The point of this thread was that they seem to be balking at the idea of a hood toggle- if they won't or can't do a hood toggle feature (which would obviously be preferable), then at least give us something that lets us exercise control over this issue, even if it's a less desirable option.

 

The issue here is that there is an issue and right now there's no way to solve it. Better to have a mediocre option that at least provides a possibility to solve the problem than no option at all.

[SteveTheCynic]

The point of this thread was that they seem to be balking at the idea of a hood toggle- if they won't or can't do a hood toggle feature (which would obviously be preferable), then at least give us something that lets us exercise control over this issue, even if it's a less desirable option.

 

The issue here is that there is an issue and right now there's no way to solve it. Better to have a mediocre option that at least provides a possibility to solve the problem than no option at all.

Except that the mediocre option CANNOT solve the problem. It can solve only a narrow subset of the problem. As soon as they released it, there would be "but I want my headset / Silent Ghost mask / whatever without the hood" going around.

 

If we settle for a mediocre solution, it's pretty much guaranteed that that's all we'll ever get.