What is the point of Watchman?

[shyroman]

Ok where to start.

1) You brought in other specs to divagate the difficulty when I didn’t compare nor say it was the hardest in game.

But still most will say it is messy yet you can’t answer me why that is? And I’d honestly say Rage is far easier yet people still claim that spec is messy and how Vengeance is smooth and outputs better.

 

2) Misconception?

No the common misconception is that people believe Annihilation suffers the most compared to the other two, that it is the hardest spec ever, hardest rotation ever, has the worse DPS and utilities, has terrible resource management, mobility and downtime.

 

Annihilation is sustainable damage which has an average.

The other two are burst which has a unreadable average because the average isn’t guaranteed meaning you’re working with more than averages which is where you start going into the area of mode and range to find the average.

 

1) You said fury is not the easiest and harder than most people think, but it is very much one of the easiest specs in the game. It is not messy, very simple rotation that is repeatable forever, the people that say it is messy don't know the correct rotation. I guess their definition of messy is that you can't just press random buttons and expect it to work.

 

2) I never said anni was hard, I just said that burst specs suffer less from downtime than sustained specs which is true. Also every spec has an average. If you do 200k damage in 20 seconds, it doesn't matter if you do 10k every second or 40k every 4 seconds, it will average out. When you say the average isn't guaranteed do you mean because of crits? Because every spec will have variance due to crits, some will have a higher variance than others but there is still variance. The sample sizes for most bosses are large enough that crits won't play a major role in dps outside of a couple very high variance specs.

[DarthSealth]

1) You said fury is not the easiest and harder than most people think, but it is very much one of the easiest specs in the game. It is not messy, very simple rotation that is repeatable forever, the people that say it is messy don't know the correct rotation. I guess their definition of messy is that you can't just press random buttons and expect it to work.

 

2) I never said anni was hard, I just said that burst specs suffer less from downtime than sustained specs which is true. Also every spec has an average. If you do 200k damage in 20 seconds, it doesn't matter if you do 10k every second or 40k every 4 seconds, it will average out. When you say the average isn't guaranteed do you mean because of crits? Because every spec will have variance due to crits, some will have a higher variance than others but there is still variance. The sample sizes for most bosses are large enough that crits won't play a major role in dps outside of a couple very high variance specs.

 

1) I said it’s harder than most will give it recognition for and that it isn’t the easiest.

Similar to that of Rage most will use Annihilation or Vengeance because “The rotation is smooth.” That is their words.

 

2) You’re honestly trying to dictate how Annihilation works on crits?

Ok how can you workout an average on crit hits? When it is guaranteed you don’t pull the same numbers 9/10.

Annihilation will mostly pull the same numbers as long as gearing is the same.

You should know this it is simple primary school math.

Edited October 14, 2017 by DarthSealth

[shyroman]

2) You’re honestly trying to dictate how Annihilation works on crits?

Ok how can you workout an average on crit hits? When it is guaranteed you don’t pull the same numbers 9/10.

Annihilation will mostly pull the same numbers as long as gearing is the same.

You should know this it is simple primary school math.

 

Annihilation has a passive where they get extra rage when they crit while a dot is on the target so it absolutely is dictated by crits. The more crits the more vicious slashes you can do which will end up being your 3rd to 5th highest damage source depending on crits. The only reason why it averages out quicker than some other specs is because of the sheer number of damage ticks it has as well as the amount of autocrits with dots. Carnage and fury and other burst specs simply take longer to reach that same amount of ticks. You say "simple primary school math" yet didn't get that most bosses will create a large enough sample size for every spec where crit luck will average out. But what do I know about mara specs, I'm only near the top of parses for every spec (carnage was pre-nerf because I haven't been bothered to parse much post-nerf).

Edited October 14, 2017 by shyroman

[DarthSealth]

Annihilation has a passive where they get extra rage when they crit while a dot is on the target so it absolutely is dictated by crits. The more crits the more vicious slashes you can do which will end up being your 3rd to 5th highest damage source depending on crits. The only reason why it averages out quicker than some other specs is because of the sheer number of damage ticks it has as well as the amount of autocrits with dots. Carnage and fury and other burst specs simply take longer to reach that same amount of ticks. You say "simple primary school math" yet didn't get that most bosses will create a large enough sample size for every spec where crit luck will average out. But what do I know about mara specs, I'm only near the top of parses for every spec (carnage was pre-nerf because I haven't been bothered to parse much post-nerf).

 

Honestly I couldn’t be bothered to get pass the most bosses part.

So Annihilation has one crit passive which I forgot about it must mean it has the similar amount of crits as the other two.

 

Oh no you parse? Oh I am so sorry you must be Gawd.

I’m not going to drop my knickers and bend over because you parse or is the highest parser.

 

Go into proper information how you’re doing these parses.

 

What is the primary objective for the specs you’re parsing with.

[shyroman]

Honestly I couldn’t be bothered to get pass the most bosses part.

So Annihilation has one crit passive which I forgot about it must mean it has the similar amount of crits as the other two.

 

Oh no you parse? Oh I am so sorry you must be Gawd.

I’m not going to drop my knickers and bend over because you parse or is the highest parser.

 

Go into proper information how you’re doing these parses.

 

What is the primary objective for the specs you’re parsing with.

 

I mean almost everything you've said has shown you have little knowledge of the class which is why I'm not really taking this that seriously, I just don't want other people to show up in this thread and become misinformed. I notice a higher variation on my anni parses than my fury parses. Variance between carnage and anni isn't that much of a difference either. One of thing that comes with parsing a lot is I notice the variances a lot more than someone who just sees "but sustained spec vs. burst spec."

[DarthSealth]

I mean almost everything you've said has shown you have little knowledge of the class which is why I'm not really taking this that seriously, I just don't want other people to show up in this thread and become misinformed. I notice a higher variation on my anni parses than my fury parses. Variance between carnage and anni isn't that much of a difference either. One of thing that comes with parsing a lot is I notice the variances a lot more than someone who just sees "but sustained spec vs. burst spec."

 

Class or spec? Because I won’t admit I am gawd of this game or any class/spec.

 

Ok we’re finally getting there. So what parses the highest at this current time between the three specs?

Or can’t you because you’ve not done Carnage? You realise how contradicting this sounds.

Edited October 14, 2017 by DarthSealth

[shyroman]

Class or spec? Because I won’t admit I am gawd of this game or any class/spec.

 

Ok we’re finally getting there. So what parses the highest at this current time between the three specs?

Or can’t you because you’ve not done Carnage? You realise how contradicting this sounds.

 

Parses the highest? Fury. I honestly don't see where you're going with this because nothing in my post is contradictory. If you want the full explanation behind why I see less variance in fury it is because much more damage comes from autocrits in fury than anni and anni has more crit variance because of the extra possible rage. Carnage has roughly the same damage from autocrits as fury but with the rest of the crits, when the crits happen is incredibly important. It is best for the crits in carnage to happen during the ferocity window, creating more variability. See nothing about that has to do with whether the spec is sustained or burst, the type of spec only only matters the smaller the sample size gets, which is irrelevant for most bosses as stated before.

[HanSollo]

Okay first of all to say that anything but Combat/Carnage is the most difficult spec is just delusional.

 

From a real world perspective

 

1.) Concentration/Rage has high mobility and Quasi-Burst damage and is probably the easiest spec to parse with with due to its ability to stick to a target and its low ramp up to damage.

 

2.) Watchman/Annihilation and Comabt/Carnage lack the mobility required to stick to the target which causes a drop in damage due to thier inability to stick to a target which almsot guarantees they will not do as much damage as they could.

 

3.) Combat/Carnage have an Extremely narrow window in which to do thier damage and ANY CC which stops them from getting thier abilities off causes a huge loss in DPS. Keep in mind that Combat players can ensure

 

4.) Watchman/Annihilation also need to stick to the target but only to ramp up thier DPS to the fullest possible amount. While they also lose damage due to thier inability to stick to a target they lose DPS at a much more bearable rate.

 

From a PvP Perspective:

Combat is by far the most difficult. Opponents that can think and learn often realize what the Gore/Precision is and will immediately CC you or use a dash to get away making your use of Precision/Gore useless which makes them by far the most difficult in PvP.

 

Watchman/Annihilation the has a similar problem in that it takes them so long to ramp up their damage that people can often heal through said damage, or CC them, and thier damage is marginalized making them the second most difficult spec to play in PvP.

 

Concentration has a slight build up and a slight burst. But the key is they can stick to thier target long enough to get the build up they need and then reengage to deliver the burst. Which makes them the easiest to play in PvP.

 

From A PvE perspective.

Combat/Carnage would technically be the easiest if you could just run through the rotation but you cant you have a priority setup which is very easy ro screw up which can cost a substantial DPS loss.

 

Watchman has a very smooth and easy rotation but its also very unforgiving. Screw it up once and everything goes out of whack. I would put both Combat/Carnage and Watchman/Annihilation tied for first in PvE difficulty.

 

Concentration/Rage again falls to the Easiest spec to play its mobility and how forgiving the rotation is allows players to not know ahat they are doing and still be able to put put decent amounts of damage.

 

Conclusion: Rage/Concentration is the easy setting and allows players to make mistakes and still contribute a noticible amount of damage. Watchman/Annihilation is the "medium" setting which provides a simple rotation which can be screwed up and when it is you pay for it in noticible amounts of DPS. Combat/Carnage is the "hard" setting very unforgiving when screwing up the rotation and massive DPS losses when you do.

[memerobot]

I’m honestly not going to take this serious because of the numerous spelling mistakes.

 

Sorry, working through night is takes lot of stamina from me, so it was already hard to type in what I wanted to.

Anyway, take a look at the last post(from HanSollo). Shows properly what I meant to say.

Edited October 14, 2017 by memerobot

[memerobot]

Okay first of all to say that anything but Combat/Carnage is the most difficult spec is just delusional.

 

Even though I will agree with most of your post, this one is the part where I am inclined to say "no" since its the hardest as in mastering it and using it effectively(You can be interrupted, stunned and so on during the burst/fit all best damage in buffs part. Obviously, that is my opinion. Does not mean you are wrong(!) ) Even though practicing is enough to make the work easier, that I agree.

 

From a real world perspective

 

1.) Concentration/Rage has high mobility and Quasi-Burst damage and is probably the easiest spec to parse with with due to its ability to stick to a target and its low ramp up to damage.

 

2.) Watchman/Annihilation and Comabt/Carnage lack the mobility required to stick to the target which causes a drop in damage due to thier inability to stick to a target which almsot guarantees they will not do as much damage as they could.

 

This part is somewhat funny because people in the past complained about the "glue to the target" aspect from Watchman/Anhihilation(close range Force Charge for people that don't know what it is being talked here and played the game for less than an year or so) because it was "bad for rotation"(not really, like its a free interrupt and matched the rotation perfectly and it gave you more time on target!) had yet it is alright with Fury, plus it has 2 leaps.

 

3.) Combat/Carnage have an Extremely narrow window in which to do thier damage and ANY CC which stops them from getting thier abilities off causes a huge loss in DPS. Keep in mind that Combat players can ensure.

 

This is the point from above about giving skill, since it is important to fit as many abilities as possible inside the buffs to have the best dps.

 

4.) Watchman/Annihilation also need to stick to the target but only to ramp up thier DPS to the fullest possible amount. While they also lose damage due to thier inability to stick to a target they lose DPS at a much more bearable rate.

 

Can't use better words here. Just leaving dots ticking does not mean that you have extra damage(which it isn't!) and it can force you to reset everything on your rotation(which happens majority of times).

 

From a PvP Perspective:

Combat is by far the most difficult. Opponents that can think and learn often realize what the Gore/Precision is and will immediately CC you or use a dash to get away making your use of Precision/Gore useless which makes them by far the most difficult in PvP.

 

Watchman/Annihilation the has a similar problem in that it takes them so long to ramp up their damage that people can often heal through said damage, or CC them, and thier damage is marginalized making them the second most difficult spec to play in PvP.

 

Honestly, I think Anhihilation/Watchman suffers even more than Carnage/Combat in PvP due to the part where you constantly have your "rotation" reset everytime you are stunned/kited/knocked back.

 

Concentration has a slight build up and a slight burst. But the key is they can stick to thier target long enough to get the build up they need and then reengage to deliver the burst. Which makes them the easiest to play in PvP.

 

From A PvE perspective.

Combat/Carnage would technically be the easiest if you could just run through the rotation but you cant you have a priority setup which is very easy ro screw up which can cost a substantial DPS loss.

 

Watchman has a very smooth and easy rotation but its also very unforgiving. Screw it up once and everything goes out of whack. I would put both Combat/Carnage and Watchman/Annihilation tied for first in PvE difficulty.

 

Concentration/Rage again falls to the Easiest spec to play its mobility and how forgiving the rotation is allows players to not know ahat they are doing and still be able to put put decent amounts of damage.

 

Conclusion: Rage/Concentration is the easy setting and allows players to make mistakes and still contribute a noticible amount of damage. Watchman/Annihilation is the "medium" setting which provides a simple rotation which can be screwed up and when it is you pay for it in noticible amounts of DPS. Combat/Carnage is the "hard" setting very unforgiving when screwing up the rotation and massive DPS losses when you do.

[DarthSealth]

Parses the highest? Fury. I honestly don't see where you're going with this because nothing in my post is contradictory. If you want the full explanation behind why I see less variance in fury it is because much more damage comes from autocrits in fury than anni and anni has more crit variance because of the extra possible rage. Carnage has roughly the same damage from autocrits as fury but with the rest of the crits, when the crits happen is incredibly important. It is best for the crits in carnage to happen during the ferocity window, creating more variability. See nothing about that has to do with whether the spec is sustained or burst, the type of spec only only matters the smaller the sample size gets, which is irrelevant for most bosses as stated before.

 

So when did you do your parses for Carnage post-nerf?

(Also how did you do these parses?)

I’m just making sure it is a fair test.

Edited October 14, 2017 by DarthSealth

[Trogusaurus]

I'll argue that Combat suffers more than Watchman in PvP because a single stun or DCD at the proper time will erase ~70% of their damage in that rotation cycle, and just about every class in the game is capable of repeatedly shutting down Precision windows.

 

To the guy attempting to argue that Conc is somehow more difficult than either of the others --- what on Earth are you smoking? So to you, the only discipline in the class with built-in CC immunity, a 100% set-path, net resource-positive rotation, a free resource/rotation reset (Valorous Call), the best anti-kiting utilities of any class in the entire game, the only tree that allows your only 30M ability sit idly for use at your leisure, is the hardest Sentinel tree to master? I'd just dismiss you as a troll, but your level of commitment to denigrating people in the thread who disagree with you suggests otherwise. This argument is nonsense.

 

Conc's top parse was less than 300 DPS below that of Watchman pre-nerf, and its parse average is actually higher than Watchman's. Don't believe me? Here you go. As you can see there, Conc has a 200 DPS advantage over Watchman even on the 2.5M dummy, and I can attest to that with my own anecdotes. Pre-nerf, I was hitting 10.3-10.6k on my better parses. Post-nerf, I was happy to break 10k, and it wasn't until I had to re-optimize my gear that I was regularly surpassing that mark. In fact, the only fights I'm reaching my prior numbers on are add-heavy fights (such as Tyth, C0 and Underlurker). Tell us all how Watchman is out-performing Conc in sustained, again. Ball is in your court, my dude.

 

I reiterate all of my points from the start of the thread.

 

1. Conc is objectively superior to Watchman in almost every way. It is easier, more resource-friendly, burstier, more sustained, and better PvP-equipped.

2. Watchman hit like a wet noodle in PvP, even when it was king of the Parse Heroes™ This problem has been further exacerbated with the nerf.

3. Sentinels suffer from weak up-time on their DCDs. The mitigation on the DCDs is absolutely fine, but the rate at which mitigation is sustained is horrible.

4. Watchman and Combat completely lack CC-immunity while attacking targets. Such up-time can be increased by a whopping 6 seconds every 3 minutes with a Legendary utility.

5. Other DoT classes have superior target swapping, and all but Watchman have a main AoE ability (defined as providing a DoT spread and/or powerful debuff) in their single target rotations.

 

My solutions to the above issues:

 

1. Reduced CD on Saber Ward. This solves both the CC-immunity issue, and DCD up-time. Do it through utility or baseline AC change, I don't care. But 3 minutes on such a mediocre DCD is ridiculous.

2. More PvP-situational DPS for Watchman. There are a myriad of ways to implement this, ranging from a damage bonus for each time the player is controlled (sort of like the Guardian's Gather Strength utility) or an attack is avoided, reintroducing Riposte, increased damage reflect on Rebuke, or many other possible methods.

3. Add a damage bonus to AoE. Again, there are a variety of ways to resolve the multi-target issue. I.e.: give Watchman's Twin Saber Throw or Force Sweep the Beat Down passive, give Sweep a proc (sort of like Accelerating Victory) to buff its damage or Focus cost once every ~8-16 GCDs (to make it temporarily more powerful than Slash), or rework DoTspread's mechanics to reapply DoTs more consistenly.

 

I think these solutions are more than fair, and provide the developers ample room to tweak the changes to fit the existing TTK models for all gameplay modes. I also fully support additional protections for Combat's extremely vulnerable Precision window, but that is not the core focus of this thread. So long as at least 2 of the 3 solutions I have offered are met in some way, I will drop the issue and we all go happily on our ways.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Trogusaurus

[DarthSealth]

I'll argue that Combat suffers more than Watchman in PvP because a single stun or DCD at the proper time will erase ~70% of their damage in that rotation cycle, and just about every class in the game is capable of repeatedly shutting down Precision windows.

 

To the guy attempting to argue that Conc is somehow more difficult than either of the others --- what on Earth are you smoking? So to you, the only discipline in the class with built-in CC immunity, a 100% set-path, net resource-positive rotation, a free resource/rotation reset (Valorous Call), the best anti-kiting utilities of any class in the entire game, the only tree that allows your only 30M ability sit idly for use at your leisure, is the hardest Sentinel tree to master? I'd just dismiss you as a troll, but your level of commitment to denigrating people in the thread who disagree with you suggests otherwise. This argument is nonsense.

 

Conc's top parse was less than 300 DPS below that of Watchman pre-nerf, and its parse average is actually higher than Watchman's. Don't believe me? Here you go. As you can see there, Conc has a 200 DPS advantage over Watchman even on the 2.5M dummy, and I can attest to that with my own anecdotes. Pre-nerf, I was hitting 10.3-10.6k on my better parses. Post-nerf, I was happy to break 10k, and it wasn't until I had to re-optimize my gear that I was regularly surpassing that mark. In fact, the only fights I'm reaching my prior numbers on are add-heavy fights (such as Tyth, C0 and Underlurker). Tell us all how Watchman is out-performing Conc in sustained, again. Ball is in your court, my dude.

 

I reiterate all of my points from the start of the thread.

 

1. Conc is objectively superior to Watchman in almost every way. It is easier, more resource-friendly, burstier, more sustained, and better PvP-equipped.

2. Watchman hit like a wet noodle in PvP, even when it was king of the Parse Heroes™ This problem has been further exacerbated with the nerf.

3. Sentinels suffer from weak up-time on their DCDs. The mitigation on the DCDs is absolutely fine, but the rate at which mitigation is sustained is horrible.

4. Watchman and Combat completely lack CC-immunity while attacking targets. Such up-time can be increased by a whopping 6 seconds every 3 minutes with a Legendary utility.

5. Other DoT classes have superior target swapping, and all but Watchman have a main AoE ability (defined as providing a DoT spread and/or powerful debuff) in their single target rotations.

 

My solutions to the above issues:

 

1. Reduced CD on Saber Ward. This solves both the CC-immunity issue, and DCD up-time. Do it through utility or baseline AC change, I don't care. But 3 minutes on such a mediocre DCD is ridiculous.

2. More PvP-situational DPS for Watchman. There are a myriad of ways to implement this, ranging from a damage bonus for each time the player is controlled (sort of like the Guardian's Gather Strength utility) or an attack is avoided, reintroducing Riposte, increased damage reflect on Rebuke, or many other possible methods.

3. Add a damage bonus to AoE. Again, there are a variety of ways to resolve the multi-target issue. I.e.: give Watchman's Twin Saber Throw or Force Sweep the Beat Down passive, give Sweep a proc (sort of like Accelerating Victory) to buff its damage or Focus cost once every ~8-16 GCDs (to make it temporarily more powerful than Slash), or rework DoTspread's mechanics to reapply DoTs more consistenly.

 

I think these solutions are more than fair, and provide the developers ample room to tweak the changes to fit the existing TTK models for all gameplay modes. I also fully support additional protections for Combat's extremely vulnerable Precision window, but that is not the core focus of this thread. So long as at least 2 of the 3 solutions I have offered are met in some way, I will drop the issue and we all go happily on our ways.

 

Well Annihilation isn’t a PVP spec.

But I could argue if you want to make it a PvP spec why not make all three.

 

This is the problem where does it stop?

[Eloi_BG]

Do you hear your own contradiction?

 

Because everyone knows it is more viable to run alacrity on autocrit specs it’s not a thing that has only been ‘Discovered’.

 

How new are you to the game?

Alacrity has always been a viable choice. Similar to how crit is for healers.

 

You honestly want something done because “You’re” unhappy about something and instead of like the rest of us who just get on with it, you want something done about it.

 

The game is suppose to be about having fun but when you’re not having fun all hell breaks loose and you want to ruin the fun for everyone else.

 

No I don't hear my own contradiction. Did you read the thread I posted higher? Doesn't look like it. Please do, it would avoid you saying random stuff like you just did.

 

It is not about discovering high alac is viable, it's discovering how alacrity really works (which is not how all theory-crafters though it worked up to now). It's about the fact that all abilities that only last 1 GCD are rounded up to the highest 0.1s, which is making no difference between different amount of alacrity except specific thresholds.

 

I am not new to the game at all, but that's not the point, and alacrity hasn't always been a viable choice (see pre 3.0). Please stop assuming I am only thinking about me. The spec I played most on my mara since 5.0 is Fury, cause I didn't play it much before and I wanted to try new stuff in this expansion. It adapts well to how alacrity works right now, but I still think they should fix it, for the sake of every spec/everyone (and even class balancing). I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, and I don't see how them addressing this alacrity issue would ruin anything.

 

P.S. I'm still having fun else I wouldn't be subbed and allowed to post on these servers. +1 on saying I act like "all hell breaks loose" considering every other post I saw you made on the threads. Cheers

[DarthSealth]

No I don't hear my own contradiction. Did you read the thread I posted higher? Doesn't look like it. Please do, it would avoid you saying random stuff like you just did.

 

It is not about discovering high alac is viable, it's discovering how alacrity really works (which is not how all theory-crafters though it worked up to now). It's about the fact that all abilities that only last 1 GCD are rounded up to the highest 0.1s, which is making no difference between different amount of alacrity except specific thresholds.

 

I am not new to the game at all, but that's not the point, and alacrity hasn't always been a viable choice (see pre 3.0). Please stop assuming I am only thinking about me. The spec I played most on my mara since 5.0 is Fury, cause I didn't play it much before and I wanted to try new stuff in this expansion. It adapts well to how alacrity works right now, but I still think they should fix it, for the sake of every spec/everyone (and even class balancing). I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, and I don't see how them addressing this alacrity issue would ruin anything.

 

P.S. I'm still having fun else I wouldn't be subbed and allowed to post on these servers. +1 on saying I act like "all hell breaks loose" considering every other post I saw you made on the threads. Cheers

 

Exactly you have only played this spec since 5.0 the reason is because you flow with what is the best.

I’ve played this spec since day one when it was Rage and I have seen it dragged through like it was dirt.

Similar to that of Carnage I even remember having both perform pretty terrible not so long ago where the only viable choice was Annihilation.

 

At the current time all the specs are doing well and are all viable depending on the content you choose.

 

So you want class balancing? via how alacrity works?

 

It seems to me you’re complaining because the spec you want to play is somewhat in your mind less viable?

Play the spec you want to play not the spec that is “supposedly” outperforming and don’t make a issue out of the idea of wanting to play a spec which you still can and instead can’t because of this or that, so until attention is paid I’ll stamp my feet.

 

When not liking a change you can either go along with, chop and change or complain but to jeopardise others for the sake of your own misery is pretty sad.

 

I’ve never once said oh we’re doing terrible but this spec is doing so great nerf them and buff us.

If I felt like this I’d either put up or shut up. If another spec is doing so great chop and change go play that for a bit.

[shyroman]

So when did you do your parses for Carnage post-nerf?

(Also how did you do these parses?)

I’m just making sure it is a fair test.

 

Ok I'll play along. Post-nerf I did the parses a couple weeks after the nerf because I parsed so much just before the nerf and got tired of it. I don't see how this has anything to do with what we're talking about here.

 

When I parse I always do 2.5mil dummy with debuffs, because that's been the standard for almost a year.

[DarthSealth]

Ok I'll play along. Post-nerf I did the parses a couple weeks after the nerf because I parsed so much just before the nerf and got tired of it. I don't see how this has anything to do with what we're talking about here.

 

When I parse I always do 2.5mil dummy with debuffs, because that's been the standard for almost a year.

 

Did you take into account a dummy isn’t the same as content?

Dummies can’t fight back haha

Just stop there you’re giving me stitches.

[shyroman]

Did you take into account a dummy isn’t the same as content?

Dummies can’t fight back haha

Just stop there you’re giving me stitches.

 

Who cares if something doesn't fight back, bosses don't fight back against dps unless something goes horribly wrong. When talking about variance of specs then whether or not something fights back doesn't matter. You have derailed your own argument so far it makes no sense. Come back when you actually have something to support your argument.

[DarthSealth]

Who cares if something doesn't fight back, bosses don't fight back against dps unless something goes horribly wrong. When talking about variance of specs then whether or not something fights back doesn't matter. You have derailed your own argument so far it makes no sense. Come back when you actually have something to support your argument.

 

So bosses don’t fight back? When you’re the highest DPS they focus on you until the tank taunts or what about taking into consideration certain boss mechanics that changes every aspect of any spec?

[DavidAtkinson]

Well Annihilation isn’t a PVP spec.

But I could argue if you want to make it a PvP spec why not make all three.

 

This is the problem where does it stop?

 

I've had my best ranked matches while I was Annihilation(Still am).

 

So much for not being a PVP spec... Anything that is hard to play and needs some skill to play is labelled not a PVP spec.. while the super easy things like mercs fury maras are always nr.1 PVP specs because every nab can play them.

[Eloi_BG]

Exactly you have only played this spec since 5.0 the reason is because you flow with what is the best.

I’ve played this spec since day one when it was Rage and I have seen it dragged through like it was dirt.

Similar to that of Carnage I even remember having both perform pretty terrible not so long ago where the only viable choice was Annihilation.

 

At the current time all the specs are doing well and are all viable depending on the content you choose.

 

So you want class balancing? via how alacrity works?

 

It seems to me you’re complaining because the spec you want to play is somewhat in your mind less viable?

Play the spec you want to play not the spec that is “supposedly” outperforming and don’t make a issue out of the idea of wanting to play a spec which you still can and instead can’t because of this or that, so until attention is paid I’ll stamp my feet.

 

When not liking a change you can either go along with, chop and change or complain but to jeopardise others for the sake of your own misery is pretty sad.

 

I’ve never once said oh we’re doing terrible but this spec is doing so great nerf them and buff us.

If I felt like this I’d either put up or shut up. If another spec is doing so great chop and change go play that for a bit.

 

Wow... Guess you can't say anything without assuming other's intentions and accusing them. Was fury best when 5.0 came out? No it was the worst one. I started playing this spec because I hadn't really tried it yet (played it a few times along the years, but never enough to become good at it) and we don't really have new content PVE wise, so I figured I'd try other things (another example: I used to mostly heal and DPS a bit in prog, in 5.0 I tanked and DPSed more).

 

You put lots of words in my mouth that I never said and it annoys me, so I will explain my point for the last time (I doubt it will pass cause you seem to disagree for the sake is disagreeing rather than trying to understand what people say).

 

Alacrity doesn't work right now like they devs told us it did when they changed it in 3.0. They said: "If you have 10% alacrity and push your buttons 10% faster, you will do 10% more DPS". With how it works right now it is not true. There are thresholds because of some weird rounding up. I want them to fix it so it works like they said it does, because it makes sense. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

This will have some consequences on class balancing, because to hit the threshold (1850 something), you need to sacrifice crit. Some specs scale better to that than others (Fury is an example). There is also a thing about casted abilities but I won't go into details. So what I say is:

 

Please fix alacrity so it works correctly before tuning the DPS again.

 

I am not asking for balance changes. I am not asking them to buff my spec. I am not "complaining because the spec want to play is somewhat in [my] mind less viable?" I am talking about this to get Dev attention on it.

 

Finally, I plead you to stop taking everyone one else for a 12 year old that is only concerned about themselves and their spec and that throws a tantrum when they are not happy (only a few 12 y/o are actually like that but you get the picture). You should read a post and try and understand the other's opinion before discarding it. Maybe the other person might not be a self-centered moron after all. 50% of your posts bashing other people could be avoided, and it would save everyone time and frustration.

[DarthSealth]

Wow... Guess you can't say anything without assuming other's intentions and accusing them. Was fury best when 5.0 came out? No it was the worst one. I started playing this spec because I hadn't really tried it yet (played it a few times along the years, but never enough to become good at it) and we don't really have new content PVE wise, so I figured I'd try other things (another example: I used to mostly heal and DPS a bit in prog, in 5.0 I tanked and DPSed more).

 

You put lots of words in my mouth that I never said and it annoys me, so I will explain my point for the last time (I doubt it will pass cause you seem to disagree for the sake is disagreeing rather than trying to understand what people say).

 

Alacrity doesn't work right now like they devs told us it did when they changed it in 3.0. They said: "If you have 10% alacrity and push your buttons 10% faster, you will do 10% more DPS". With how it works right now it is not true. There are thresholds because of some weird rounding up. I want them to fix it so it works like they said it does, because it makes sense. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

This will have some consequences on class balancing, because to hit the threshold (1850 something), you need to sacrifice crit. Some specs scale better to that than others (Fury is an example). There is also a thing about casted abilities but I won't go into details. So what I say is:

 

Please fix alacrity so it works correctly before tuning the DPS again.

 

I am not asking for balance changes. I am not asking them to buff my spec. I am not "complaining because the spec want to play is somewhat in [my] mind less viable?" I am talking about this to get Dev attention on it.

 

Finally, I plead you to stop taking everyone one else for a 12 year old that is only concerned about themselves and their spec and that throws a tantrum when they are not happy (only a few 12 y/o are actually like that but you get the picture). You should read a post and try and understand the other's opinion before discarding it. Maybe the other person might not be a self-centered moron after all. 50% of your posts bashing other people could be avoided, and it would save everyone time and frustration.

 

So it’s about alacrity rounding up or down? Isn’t this common math?

[DarthSealth]

I've had my best ranked matches while I was Annihilation(Still am).

 

So much for not being a PVP spec... Anything that is hard to play and needs some skill to play is labelled not a PVP spec.. while the super easy things like mercs fury maras are always nr.1 PVP specs because every nab can play them.

 

Well it isn’t a PVP spec as such.

I said my personal opinion in prior posts that I don’t consider it as a PvP spec but you can use it.

I’ve used it in unranked but I wouldn’t preferably choose to use it in ranked.

 

Honestly that is good for you so what is your point?

[Eloi_BG]

So it’s about alacrity rounding up or down? Isn’t this common math?

 

As I said, it's rounded up to the highest 0.1s. So, for example, if your alacrity should make you GCD be 1.33s, it will still act as 1.4s. This means there can be a lot of wasted stats if you don't aim for thresholds. Yes it is simple math, simply changing it to round up to closest 0.01 (like it apparently does with abilities that last more than 1 GCD, haven't tested that part myself) would pretty much solve the issue. It is stated with combat logs proof in the thread I posted earlier that I encouraged you to read so you could understand my point (I agree my point was not clear if you didn't read the thread).

[shyroman]

So bosses don’t fight back? When you’re the highest DPS they focus on you until the tank taunts or what about taking into consideration certain boss mechanics that changes every aspect of any spec?

 

So what I'm gathering from this is you know nothing of pve, if you as a dps are tanking the boss in a way that impedes your dps then something is going horribly wrong. There are very few mechanics that will hurt one spec and not the other, and those few are stuns that would hurt anni and carnage more than fury because fury can avoid it if the rotation lines up that way.

 

So it’s about alacrity rounding up or down? Isn’t this common math?

 

If you actually decided to read what people post/link to you would understand.