Galactic Command vs Previous SWTOR versions

[Tsillah]

I can log in right now and have the potential to acquire a tier 3 or tier 4 item within a day, without utilizing GC, or even with a GC rank 1 toon. How is that being worse off than any previous version of swtor?

 

How about you explain how you would do that, because I don't believe that for a minute.

[xRohanx]

Those statements were in regards to a poster stating that he was upset that people were in a rush to finish flashpoints and ops. It was not in reference to anything regarding CXP, which I believe I stated in the my response as well. There are always people that play like that, with or without a cxp system in place. I stated that that poster has a lot of different things that he, personally, can do to improve his gaming experience, such as use ignore to prevent himself from grouping with those players in the future, form his own groups with his own objectives and see if others have similar interests, etc. Again, it had no reference to cxp. Perhaps that is where you were confused. Hopefully, I clarified well enough.

These cases are interrelated, and your problem is that you do not want to understand this fact. You do not want to understand that it is not so easy to find an adequate group. You do not want to understand that your playing style can differ from the other players style. You do not want to understand that even Operations does not guarantee players to get wanted gear part, unlike the previous system. You have perfectly clarified this now.

 

You say that now all players have a chance to get the best equipment. But the difference is that earlier you could take the part that you need. Now you open endless GC crates and this does not mean that you will get what you want. I already told you about my sister. She does not like PVP and never will. Therefore, she must open the endless crates and not received the necessary part all 9 months. Not even the best, but premium at least.

 

The meaning of all said is that some players need an adequate reward for their efforts and the guarantee to take part of gear, what they want. This means that UC should be a currency not only for PVP, but also for PVE (maybe FP's and Uprisings), and all members of the Operations group should receive the part of the equipment they want to receive. Then this system can be called good and friendly. Only then all existing content will make sense and ninja loot will disappear.

 

Now you can say as much as you like that this system is the best, but it is not true.

[Totemdancer]

I don't see how...before you had to run pvp for pvp only gear, and you had to run Ops for Pve only gear, the two were not interchangeable. Now, you only need one set of gear, and it can be gotten from every activity in the game. So, to me, the new system is far superior.

 

And that is why pvp is failing because there is only one set of gear. I can see how it might make sense to just have one, I used to think it would be easier too. But it's had a very bad and detrimental affect on the pvp community.

The old system of two sets of gear that gated both parts of the game to prevent undergeared people from doing content they weren't ready for was essential to keeping some semblance of quality. Now anyone can join Ranked with what ever gear. You can even join ranked naked and there is nothing stopping people from doing so. When there was pvp gear with Expertise, it allowed Ranked to be gated so that people had to have full expertise or they couldn't even queue for it.

The same could be said for pve content. Bioware have actually looked at this and gated some last patch. But it's been implimented badly and to part of the game that doesn't really need it.

This gearing system is an abortion when comparing it to gearing in 4.0. I understand they wanted to try something new, but it's been a failure from the start and they just won't admit it and revert to some semblance of the old gear system. They could still make this system work by listening to the players feed back and reducing the grind, but it will never be as good as it was in 4.0.

[Totemdancer]

How about you explain how you would do that, because I don't believe that for a minute.

 

Yes, I'm waiting too so I can log right in and test this theory. I'll post the youboob link after I prove it's impossible,

[MeNaCe-NZ]

In 4.x, to get tier 216/220 gear you had to run vet/mm flashpoints or ops - that was all you could do. In your words - ANYTHING that awarded comms/crystals.

In addition, you had a very limited amount of crystals you could obtain by doing dailies and weeklies. In fact, I remember many times where I was left 5 crystals short of acquiring a piece of gear because I had already expended all my available resources for acquiring those crystals.

 

All you could do and then "in addition", what a nonsense statement.

Heroics would yield plenty of glowing crystals and that's before taking in to consideration weeklies/dailies and then the flashpoints which depending on the content is a mix of glowing/radiant so equivalent tier 3/4 non set bonus gearaccordingly.

 

If they had of kept the currency no doubt uprisings and repeatable chapters would no doubt award crystals too depending on difficulty.

So I could gear faster in less content than I can doing ALL content in the current state of the game, GG.

 

What's more there is still plenty of variety in that content. For me personally there isn't even any other content I would see myself doing with your whole "play naturally" mentality.

Oh, and those crystals were also not transferrable via legacy. Come to think of it, the limitation of glowing and radiant crystals would not allow you to get 1 piece of gear in a single day's worth of dailies/weeklies, iirc.

 

CXP isn't legacy friendly either so that's moot and you could easily get a gear piece in a day depending what content you chose to do. Heroics alone had 2 glowing each and that's before any daily/weekly awards associated. I forget what the planetaries paid if anything.

 

Now, I can not limited by "anything that awards comms/crystals" because I can either do Ops to get the shells for the items, or I can run ANYTHING ELSE, through the secondary system called CXP and still have an opportunity to upgrade my toon(s).

 

Except to get the equivalent now you need to get to tier 3 i.e. level 180. Playing naturally as you say that's likely to be a good 100-150 hours of play before you can even QUALIFY for the same point as prior to 5.0.

 

There is no comparison to how inferior this system is.

 

IF you started at tier 3 on the other hand that would be a different story but you don't so it's moot.

[Tsillah]

Yes, I'm waiting too so I can log right in and test this theory. I'll post the youboob link after I prove it's impossible,

I doubt he will, because in every thread he posts where I call bulls..t on him, he never replies because he knows he can't back up his nonsense.

[cyrusramsey]

I doubt he will, because in every thread he posts where I call bulls..t on him, he never replies because he knows he can't back up his nonsense.

 

Yeah.. I gave arguing the points a try myself, but it just looks like he's going through sessions of speed-arguing. Picking out sentences here and there to respond to and debate as quickly as possible, spending more focus on getting as many posts as possible than on actually getting a point across, or refuting points.

 

I'd say "troll", except I'm not sure the whole "no, you!"-approach qualifies. This thread doesn't seem to be about an actual discussion that I can see.

[xRohanx]

Topic starter still has not answered? Owned. Edited September 9, 2017 by xRohanx

[olagatonjedi]

Of course you don't have to do anything but if you are in game at all, your whole post makes no sense because you will be getting screwed over when you compare GC to anything in 4.X.

 

LikeI said, just the ability to choose what gear you wanted makes GC quite possibly one of the worst added features we could have gotten. Especially so when they could have taken teh system for 4.X and adjusted it to do everything GC does and more and it would have been a system gamers were already used to and would still have less currency than we do now. Which BTW, bw claimed they are trying to get away from. GC just makes little sense in the health of SWTOR when 4.X was so much better.

You are comparing a primary gearing system to a secondary gearing system. Of course that's the argument you are going to try to prove/win. In my original post, I compared the entire system to the entire system. There is a huge difference.

 

How about you explain how you would do that, because I don't believe that for a minute.

The fact that you are asking me this question shows that you really don't understand the potential of the loot system, which would explain a lot of the anti-GC attitude that many people illustrate on these forums. People get mad at stuff they don't understand. It's all starting to make sense now.

 

For tier 3/4 gear - log in to any of my toons, join GF or HM ops (depending which gear I am looking for, and my current gear level). Possibly win a shell (as has always been the case - random winner). Collect enough UC's via PvP, Ranked, or GSF to trade my shell in for a tier 3 or tier 4 item (can easily take less than 1, especially with weekly rewards). Get your tier 3 or 4 item.

 

These cases are interrelated, and your problem is that you do not want to understand this fact. You do not want to understand that it is not so easy to find an adequate group. You do not want to understand that your playing style can differ from the other players style. You do not want to understand that even Operations does not guarantee players to get wanted gear part, unlike the previous system. You have perfectly clarified this now.

You're making a lot of assumptions there. Again, the issues you raise have little or nothing to do with CXP. And, like many others before/after you, you are comparing the primary 4.x gearing system (that we have seen to conclusion) to CXP, a secondary gearing system (which is still being tweaked in addition to the primary gearing system).

Edited September 9, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[xRohanx]

You have an amazing ability to overlook what people write to you. Keep it up. And you finally answered. Really! 2 hours in GF are not assumptions, 9 months of grind are not assumptions and insanely expensive craft after last patch not assumptions too. This is a harsh reality, alas. Do you have any other arguments or will we dance in a circle? Edited September 9, 2017 by xRohanx

[Tsillah]

For tier 3/4 gear - log in to any of my toons, join GF or HM ops (depending which gear I am looking for, and my current gear level). Possibly win a shell (as has always been the case - random winner). Collect enough UC's via PvP, Ranked, or GSF to trade my shell in for a tier 3 or tier 4 item (can easily take less than 1, especially with weekly rewards). Get your tier 3 or 4 item.

 

And there we have the proof. You cannot use the shell from the ops unless you have galactic command tokens. Therefore your lie is exposed.

 

That aside doing an ops does not guarantee you a drop and certainly not the particular piece you may be after. You may have to do multiple ops, which takes some time. So that's an additional flaw in your reasoning.

 

Lastly, it's clear you cannot look beyond yourself, but there are a lot of people who do not wish to PvP and doing enough PvP in one day to get the weekly? What's that, 10-20 matches? Add to that the waiting time in between. That's the final flaw in your story because even though you technically could manage in one day that's not a reasonable example.

 

I do understand GC and apparently you've never heard of Command Tokens. So that's on you. Also, as suspected you rely on doing operations and pvp, either of which are a no go for many people. So really, since you like doing both it's clear that you're just using yourself as the template for the player base, which per definion is a ridiculous premise.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Tsillah

[olagatonjedi]

You have an amazing ability to overlook what people write to you. Keep it up. And you finally answered. Really! 2 hours in GF are not assumptions, 9 months of grind are not assumptions and insanely expensive craft after last patch not assumptions too. This is a harsh reality, alas. Do you have any other arguments or will we dance in a circle?

I answer everything that needs answering. Often get asked the same question by multiple people. I address everything that merits being addressed, and it's based on speculation.

[olagatonjedi]

you technically could manage in one day

All that typing in your post, all of the waiting anxiously for my response......and you still concede its possible, which was what was being asked. Thanks!

[Tsillah]

All that typing in your post, all of the waiting anxiously for my response......and you still concede its possible, which was what was being asked. Thanks!

I did not concede that. You should read the whole post, especially the part where I said that you cannot exchange ops shells without command tokens.

 

You technically could get enough UCs in one day for an upgrade, but that by itself is not enough.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Tsillah

[olagatonjedi]

I did not concede that. You should read the whole post, especially the part where I said that you cannot exchange ops shells without command tokens.

 

You technically could get enough UCs in one day for an upgrade, but that by itself is not enough.

Stuck on a small piece of the argument that I already clarified. Yet you continue to agree ita possible.

[xRohanx]

I answer everything that needs answering. Often get asked the same question by multiple people. I address everything that merits being addressed, and it's based on speculation.

I told you about real experiences and brought real cases. You ignore them for the third time. Although these cases fully show the failures of the system, like many others, mentioned here not only by me. But it's very convenient for you not to notice this messages, saying that players do not use all the possibilities. We are talking about how to make the system comfortable for all players. And you boast that you can take any piece of equipment in an hour. This is real speculation.

[Tsillah]

Stuck on a small piece of the argument that I already clarified. Yet you continue to agree ita possible.

The small piece is crucial and perhaps you clarified it to someone somewhere, but it would've made sense to clarify it here instead of ignoring it till now in our exchange. You could've mentioned this a few posts ago, but you chose not to because you were cherry picking what you think you could have some "clever" retort to

 

But please feel free to explain why you would introduce a technical or rather a theoretical possibilty (only relating to the time factor) that in practice is not possible and certainly not reliably possible.

 

If it was your point simply to say that you could get a 242/248 gearpiece outside of the RNG gearboxes (even though they are the source of command tokens) within a 24-hour period, then clearly this has no value in the discussion because it's not a realistic example of something that a player could actually manage unless they don't have a job, don't need sleep and is extremely lucky with getting the gf to pop often enough to get there.

 

If you're all about this technicality then, clearly, you have nothing sensible to add to the conversation that people can actually do something with. It's not a realistic nor practical example so it has no value.

[olagatonjedi]

I told you about real experiences and brought real cases. You ignore them for the third time. Although these cases fully show the failures of the system, like many others, mentioned here not only by me. But it's very convenient for you not to notice this messages, saying that players do not use all the possibilities. We are talking about how to make the system comfortable for all players. And you boast that you can take any piece of equipment in an hour. This is real speculation.

In all honesty, it probably got lost in all thr other posts. You are welcime to repost if you are rrally interested in hearing my feedback.

[olagatonjedi]

The small piece is crucial and perhaps you clarified it to someone somewhere, but it would've made sense to clarify it here instead of ignoring it till now in our exchange. You could've mentioned this a few posts ago, but you chose not to because you were cherry picking what you think you could have some "clever" retort to

 

But please feel free to explain why you would introduce a technical or rather a theoretical possibilty (only relating to the time factor) that in practice is not possible and certainly not reliably possible.

 

If it was your point simply to say that you could get a 242/248 gearpiece outside of the RNG gearboxes (even though they are the source of command tokens) within a 24-hour period, then clearly this has no value in the discussion because it's not a realistic example of something that a player could actually manage unless they don't have a job, don't need sleep and is extremely lucky with getting the gf to pop often enough to get there.

 

If you're all about this technicality then, clearly, you have nothing sensible to add to the conversation that people can actually do something with. It's not a realistic nor practical example so it has no value.

You are still making a lot of assumptions.

 

And my example was proof that it is possible for anyone willing to go that route. I answered a question/challenge with a possible path to the same outcome. Is it the best path for everyone? Maybe not, but i never claimed that either.

 

And my example is very realistic because im proof of it, and play part time.

[Tsillah]

You are still making a lot of assumptions.

 

And my example was proof that it is possible for anyone willing to go that route. I answered a question/challenge with a possible path to the same outcome. Is it the best path for everyone? Maybe not, but i never claimed that either.

 

And my example is very realistic because im proof of it, and play part time.

You are not proof of anything because everybody can claim whatever they want here. Just cause you say it doesn't make it so.

 

The reason I have to make some assumptions is because of the inconsistencies you present and because you cherry pick what you reply to and so you never take the big picture view which is needed for a topic like this.

 

It also enables you a sort of plausible deniability on every turn you take. It's just annoying because at the end of the day people do need to use GC and your example is the path of using ops and pvp, which is exactly the path that has been discussed already so many times here that people are upset with. PvP'ers don't want to feel "forced' to do ops and raiders don't want to feel "forced" to do pvp. It's not technically forced of course (because you would hammer on that point), but it's what people see as the most efficient way and as they want to gear up alts and want to get complete sets of gear for them, there is pressure. People have goals and the change towards GC was not a positive change for those people.

 

And you, you just go about it saying "well, I like both so I do that and I can do it in one day for a 248 piece". That is a totally useless example. It's like everybody is already past that station and you still want to focus on it as if it has relevance for the overall issue that is GC.

 

So feel free to ramble on but if people want to achieve certain things in this game, that they did before 5.0, then they are resigned to GC and needing to play pvp and/or operations to achieve those very same goals.

 

That's where the problems lie and why people still say the prefer older gear systems. Because if in the current version of GC you can get gear quickly, it's not the same situation as before.

 

In addition the afk'ers in warzones and ninja looting pvp' ers in HM pugs are also effects of GC and are something else that is undesireable. So as far as gearing is concerned, 4.0 was a lot better as a system, althought the priority ops were too much. All they had to do was take that away and add GC as a reward system for everything that's not pvp and operations.

[xRohanx]

In all honesty, it probably got lost in all thr other posts. You are welcime to repost if you are rrally interested in hearing my feedback.

This.

Edited September 9, 2017 by xRohanx

[olagatonjedi]

This.

I answered how many hours i play, but to restate it ranges from 12-20hrs a week, more towards the 12. As for your RL instance, i would suggest utilizing more aspects of the game you can control. If you rely solely on the RNG part of gearing, you run the risk of not getting what you want when you want it. If you really want a specific piece of gear, the option is in place to bypass the cxp RNG and potentially get it faster. That is everyones choice. But all of that has been said numerous times by myself, and others, so I dont see why it was critical for me to say it again.

[olagatonjedi]

You are not proof of anything because everybody can claim whatever they want here. Just cause you say it doesn't make it so.

 

The reason I have to make some assumptions is because of the inconsistencies you present and because you cherry pick what you reply to and so you never take the big picture view which is needed for a topic like this.

 

It also enables you a sort of plausible deniability on every turn you take. It's just annoying because at the end of the day people do need to use GC and your example is the path of using ops and pvp, which is exactly the path that has been discussed already so many times here that people are upset with. PvP'ers don't want to feel "forced' to do ops and raiders don't want to feel "forced" to do pvp. It's not technically forced of course (because you would hammer on that point), but it's what people see as the most efficient way and as they want to gear up alts and want to get complete sets of gear for them, there is pressure. People have goals and the change towards GC was not a positive change for those people.

 

And you, you just go about it saying "well, I like both so I do that and I can do it in one day for a 248 piece". That is a totally useless example. It's like everybody is already past that station and you still want to focus on it as if it has relevance for the overall issue that is GC.

 

So feel free to ramble on but if people want to achieve certain things in this game, that they did before 5.0, then they are resigned to GC and needing to play pvp and/or operations to achieve those very same goals.

 

That's where the problems lie and why people still say the prefer older gear systems. Because if in the current version of GC you can get gear quickly, it's not the same situation as before.

 

In addition the afk'ers in warzones and ninja looting pvp' ers in HM pugs are also effects of GC and are something else that is undesireable. So as far as gearing is concerned, 4.0 was a lot better as a system, althought the priority ops were too much. All they had to do was take that away and add GC as a reward system for everything that's not pvp and operations.

You do you thrn, and Ill do me.

[xRohanx]

so I dont see why it was critical for me to say it again.

Because you asked me to remind you of real examples. I reminded you my sister's example. Moreover, I said above that she will not do PVP. By the way, you said here that you can get any part in operation. It is not true. Because first you must to win a roll. So, please, stop lying to yourself and others. RNG in operations too.

[olagatonjedi]

Because you asked me to remind you of real examples. I reminded you my sister's example. Moreover, I said above that she will not do PVP. By the way, you said here that you can get any part in operation. It is not true. Because first you must to win a roll. So, please, stop lying to yourself and others. RNG in operations too.

Your concerns have already been responded to numerous times in this, and other threads. No need for me to state them over again. They are not a cxp problem, they are more a problem because of how she chooses to limit her gaming. At this point, it seems you/she are just complaining to complain.