Game system/engine update.

[Forren-Midosea]

Devs, do you plan on doing any MAJOR changes to the game performance/looks? Game engine updates/changes?

 

And 2nd question, do you plan on opening swtor for addons?

[Andryah]

They have been making improvements to client performance since launch. Sometimes minor, sometimes fairly significant and noticeable.

 

Now.. if you are asking for a new engine, 64 bit, and DX12... I would advise against holding your breath.

 

Please NO.. on addons. They dumb down the game mechanics and players spend more time playing the addons then the game. Besides.. the studio has been pretty clear that they have no intention of changing the game to allow addons and macros. They are philosophically opposed to it, and I personally am happy that they are.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Andryah

[Nightblazer]

Devs, do you plan on doing any MAJOR changes to the game performance/looks? Game engine updates/changes?

 

And 2nd question, do you plan on opening swtor for addons?

 

They already stated they do not want add ons. They prefer to have things built in directly vs allowing add ons. That's why the out in a built in ui editor. If anything you'll see them add built in tool vs add ons from a third party.

[ZionHalcyon]

Devs, do you plan on doing any MAJOR changes to the game performance/looks? Game engine updates/changes?

 

And 2nd question, do you plan on opening swtor for addons?

 

To date the only Major MMO to ever upgrade their engine is EVE Online.

 

Because of the engine is the core of the everything it is very difficult to upgrade it without breaking practically the entire game. Therefore, it is unlikely they will ever update the engine.

 

Thought you'd appreciate a reasonable response to your question rather than just someone advising you not to hold your breath.

Edited July 5, 2017 by ZionHalcyon

[mmmbuddah]

To date the only Major MMO to ever upgrade their engine is EVE Online.

 

Because of the engine is the core of the everything it is very difficult to upgrade it without breaking practically the entire game. Therefore, it is unlikely they will ever update the engine.

 

Thought you'd appreciate a reasonable response to your question rather than just someone advising you not to hold your breath.

 

ESO added a 64bit client 1,5 years in, it was a clustsmurf at first, but works super well now . SWTOR desperately needs that.

[Docthebutcher]

MOst games over time replace their engines to keep things modern.

I know several games I play lets see one with planes WAR......have replaced their engine 2 or 3 times

Some game with tanks have replaced their engine at least 3 times to keep their game the best it can be

Another one that creates a RIFT not only has updated a lot but one of the few games that use multi cores and in a big way and there is a HUGE difference/

Now our 32 bit outdated when the game launched engine

we are STUCK with it there isnt anyone at EA or BW who cares anymore

It would cost them money to replace it to a modern engine and they put VERY little money into swtor

They think it is good enough for us players We accept what our MASTER EA says.

Believe half of what EA says

I scan the servers once a day 4 of them were empty when I logged on this day...not good

That means NO big updates the ones we get half the time half does not work.

BUt so many are so starving for anything that they look past what doesnt work we all do that in swtor..

But we all know for a fact this could be so much better....but EA does not care ...

 

Len

2017

[IntegrationArch]

Upgrading the vintange Win XP 32Bit DX9/10 is critical to SWTOR survival, everyone chime in YES/NO?

 

Here is DX113D VS DX123D, note the frame rate and depth of field improvements:

DX12 OFFLOADS 100's of rendering of graphics to the GPU instead of CPU (that's why existing SWTOR has slow frame rates and lags today)

 

Multi GPU framers API for DX12 conversion will need a gofundme campain because EA/BW/Disney are just not talking about it so it will be up to us!!! DX12 will allow XBONE, PS5, and PC W10 DX12 to scream native 80fps 4k @ 3840 x 2160 pixels on a few 34" LCD'S.

 

Question: How many SWTOR subscribers will be needed to make this type of upgrade profitable for BW to tackle? 0.5M? / 1M? or 2M paid subcriptions?

:

Here is primer on why DX 12:

 

Other BW games are already DX12/XBOXONE/64Bit, like Mass Effect Andromeda, interesting other BW games use HeroEngine/Server Engine running on Oracle 64 Bit database. This SWTOR SERVER upgrade was already completed based on may posts, blogs, and podcasts.

 

SWTOR Game Scripts and Windows 2003 32 Bit to Windows server 2016/12 are unknown but most likely easier than harder to complete.

 

Issue: HeroEngine only support DX113D based on this: http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine/he-roadmap

 

Hero refused to take an inquiry when they will support DX12.

 

HERE IS WHAT EA SW BATTLEFRONT II will use it's called FROSTBITE V3 or V4 https://www.ea.com/frostbite/engine

 

FROST BITE on MAC IOS and AOS (and XBONE, PC64DX12, PS4/5)

http://wccftech.com/ea-ceo-frostbite-preparing-world-devices-capable-playing-games/

 

 

 

 

PS HERE IS THE CONFUSION PROBABLY FOR BW/EA: http://www.nvidia.com/object/cloud-gaming.html

 

CLOUD GPU means server side game graphics rendering so a game can be played on a low end system like Andriod or apple IOS or phone or lower powered pc's.

Edited July 5, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[HuaRya]

ESO added a 64bit client 1,5 years in, it was a clustsmurf at first, but works super well now . SWTOR desperately needs that.

 

ESO and FF keep my CPU quiet while in SWTOR my PC frequently goes into fan overdrive. Since playing SWTOR I'm now on my 3rd gfx card. Never had any of the shadow/shading options turned on. Planets like Belsavis make the PC work especially hard.

 

Updating the engine has given other games the ability for consoles to play which has made a huge impact on populations. While STO the additions had minimal impact FF often has wait times to get into your server. In this day and age having exclusively PC only MMO is probably not wise.

Edited July 5, 2017 by HuaRya

[Foambreaker]

Devs, do you plan on doing any MAJOR changes to the game performance/looks? Game engine updates/changes?

 

And 2nd question, do you plan on opening swtor for addons?

 

Please god no addons!!

 

Addons and macros are one of the reasons I left WoW. It became he who scripts best wins.

[jedip_enguin]

Is it that time again??

[IntegrationArch]

ESO and FF keep my CPU quiet while in SWTOR my PC frequently goes into fan overdrive. Since playing SWTOR I'm now on my 3rd gfx card. Never had any of the shadow/shading options turned on. Planets like Belsavis make the PC work especially hard.

 

Updating the engine has given other games the ability for consoles to play which has made a huge impact on populations. While STO the additions had minimal impact FF often has wait times to get into your server. In this day and age having exclusively PC only MMO is probably not wise.

 

True. Exponentially wise to get more subs on more platforms that just PC. Please read up on DX12 as it offloads the game graphics rendering from the CPU to the GPU'S plus uses CPU/GPU multithreading instead of single threading to enable 4K and 80 fps .

Edited July 5, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[SHAVEDKILLER]

Lol.seriously that ship sailed year 1.....P.S..i hope im rong...but I doubt it.

[Jett-Rinn]

The problem with this idea is the type of Engine SWTOR is using which is a heavily modified version of the Hero Engine, That engine is wonky enough as is, I can only imagine the nightmare it would be to remaster a modified version of it.

[IntegrationArch]

The problem with this idea is the type of Engine SWTOR is using which is a heavily modified version of the Hero Engine, That engine is wonky enough as is, I can only imagine the nightmare it would be to remaster a modified version of it.

 

Do you research. The core of HeroEngine is 64 Bit Oracle database (incredible) and supports DX113d officially. The SWTOR jobs and scripts servers would be the easy part to upgrade for BW if not already completed.

 

The last part is a commitment to keep SWTOR alive with a bump in the game client to support DX12 multiplatform native PC64, XBONE, IOS, AOS, PS4/5 and vision tracking 4K headgear at higher frame rates. Dolby Vison is supported on EA'S new games too.

 

This would be a honest gofundme campaign (if Eric and Keith agreed to be a part of unofficlally/officially) or even a signature petition drive Change.org or both.

[Andryah]

Do you research. The core of HeroEngine is 64 Bit Oracle database (incredible) and supports DX113d officially. The SWTOR jobs and scripts servers would be the easy part to upgrade for BW if not already completed.

 

The last part is a commitment to keep SWTOR alive with a bump in the game client to support DX12 multiplatform native PC64, XBONE, IOS, AOS, PS4/5 and vision tracking 4K headgear at higher frame rates. Dolby Vison is supported on EA'S new games too.

 

This would be a honest gofundme campaign (if Eric and Keith agreed to be a part of unofficlally/officially) or even a signature petition drive Change.org or both.

 

I think you are confusing the current Hero engine with the early alpha that they released many years ago and was licensed in it's unfinished state by Bioware and then further developed from there. For all intents and purposes, it's a proprietary engine now, based on a framework of an early and not fully functional alpha release.

 

The issue with moving to a 64bit DX12 engine is that it would obsolete a lot of perfectly good computers in the current player base. A true self-inflicted shot to the foot for the studio. Hence they would in fact have to provide two engines, one 64 and one 32 (or a very cleverly designed engine that can switch and serve based on the players OS), as well as full range of compatibility from DX9-DX12. That is a huge investment to make.... particularly when they are essentially using an internal engine which is loosely based on an early alpha of the Hero engine.

 

Also... you made a case for this being a 4-6 million player game if they simply ported to additional platforms like the various consoles, Mac, etc. Sorry... but that is complete made up fantasy, with no basis in fact and no demonstrable precedent in the MMO market place.

 

It's not the best engine in the MMO market, nor is it the worst. It's greatest sin is that it does not take full advantage of the latest generation hardware and OS. By the same token, it plays on a very wide range of player systems which is much more likely to create access ease for players then your suggestions/demands.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Andryah

[IntegrationArch]

I think you are confusing the current Hero engine with the early alpha that they released many years ago and was licensed in it's unfinished state by Bioware and then further developed from there. For all intents and purposes, it's a proprietary engine now, based on a framework of an early and not fully functional alpha release.

.

 

Not true, Do your research. HeroEngine is 64Bit Oracle and native mainline DX113D. HeroEngine confirmed beta testing for DX12 now but not yet testing Dolby Vision (4K compression.) SWTOR has upgraded HeroEngine & Core and some parts of the 32 bit client many times (improved shading and they way they focus on nearfield and blur far away) since then and the last piece is the game client bits (32 to 64) along with DX113D bump. Then all platforms would work seamlessly. Yes only 1% could not run the game if they had XP 32 BIT but millions more could run like XBONE & IOS & AOS

Edited July 5, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[IntegrationArch]

 

The issue with moving to a 64bit DX12 engine is that it would obsolete a lot of perfectly good computers in the current player base. A true self-inflicted shot to the foot for the studio. Hence they would in fact have to provide two engines, one 64 and one 32 (or a very cleverly designed engine that can switch and serve based on the players OS), as well as full range of compatibility from DX9-DX12. That is a huge investment to make.... particularly when they are essentially using an internal engine which is loosely based on an early alpha of the Hero engine.

 

.

 

Nope. Keith already confirmed BW will bring up new more powerfull servers and leave the older populations online in the podcast. But if your running XP, your not getting to most content of the internet now and stuck with 3G memory or less and can't run Battlefront or dozens of games that have come out since 2016.

Edited July 5, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[Andryah]

Not true, Do your research. HeroEngine is 64Bit Oracle and native mainline DX113D. HeroEngine confirmed beta testing for DX12 now but not yet testing Dolby Vision (4K compression.) SWTOR has upgraded HeroEngine & Core and some parts of the 32 bit client many times (improved shading and they way they focus on nearfield and blur far away) since then and the last piece is the game client bits (32 to 64) along with DX113D bump. Then all platforms would work seamlessly. Yes only 1% could not run the game if they had XP 32 BIT but millions more could run like XBONE & IOS & AOS

 

It is you that needs to research better.

 

Any discussion about SWTOR in the context of the Hero engine begins 8 years ago when they purchased the license to an completely unfinished Hero engine and then built upon it from there. It would be much more accurate to just acknowledge that the game engine for SWTOR is loosely based on a very early and incomplete version of the Hero engine from 8 years ago. Hence.. it is a custom engine, with a loose lineage back to an old Hero alpha.

 

To date, the studio has never disclosed the changes, state of development, and evolution plans for their now custom engine... loosely based on a Hero framework.

 

If you think what Hero is today and what is coming through beta = and upgrade path for SWTOR ... you are very mistaken.

 

This has been discussed to death over the years. The engine is what it is, and there is no upgrade path to the latest Hero releases. Period.. full stop. The studio has however continued to improve the engine on the client side for sure. Server side assets.. most likely as well.. but they offer zero transparency about the server side, so no way to tell for sure.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Nope. Keith already confirmed BW will bring up new more powerfull servers and leave the older populations online in the podcast. But if your running XP, your not getting to most content of the internet now and stuck with 3G memory or less and can't run Battlefront or dozens of games that have come out since 2016.

 

What?

 

What do server upgrades have to do with any of this?

 

As for your lecture on XP.... there are a lot more PCs running 32 bit then just old XP platforms. So please stop making stuff up. The player base does not consist of strictly latest generation hardware and software, nor should it.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Andryah

[IntegrationArch]

IOS on intel has been 64 bit since 2011

 

over 50% of steam gaming is W10 already and rising fast

 

dx9 is ancient and dx11 is mainline

 

MASS EFFECT DX11

BATTLEFRONT DX11/12

BATTLEFRONT II DX12

 

Blend of games incl. non EA and non BW list

ELDER SCROLLS DX11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support

 

Percentange of older OS is falling fast because XP can no longer get to most of the internet content correctly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Edited July 5, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[Andryah]

IOS on intel has been 64 bit since 2011

 

over 50% of steam gaming is W10 already and rising fast

 

dx9 is ancient and dx11 is mainline

 

MASS EFFECT DX11

BATTLEFRONT DX11/12

BATTLEFRONT II DX12

 

Blend of games incl. non EA and non BW list

ELDER SCROLLS DX11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support

 

Percentange of older OS is falling fast because XP can no longer get to most of the internet content correctly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

 

You are selectively cherry picking to support your case. Setting aside the cherries......

 

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide (and you have buttons below to look by region, but there is little difference in World Wide, EU, NA split numbers.

 

Data clearly shows that Win 7 still dominates, and a lot of Win 7 installs are 32 bit. They also remain supported by Microsoft. Clearly Vista and XP are essentially low enough to be considered abandoned, and are no longer supported...... but Win7 + Win 8/8.1 still dominate the market. Win 10 is simply not dominate yet, and likely won't be for several years.

 

As for DXn..... a lot of older systems are still very capable of running this MMO and are running with older graphics cards that do not support DX12, and in many cases not even DX11.

 

I know you want to pretend that everyone has tossed their old hardware and software for the latest and greatest (which is a requirement of your position here) but it just is not true.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Andryah

[Forren-Midosea]

I advice You to ask people in game. Tons of gtx 970, GTX 1060 and GTX 1070. Lots of RX 470/480 or R9 280/290 and r9 300 series. And i dont know how many GTX 1080 cards. CPUs? Quad core icore intel from gen 2 to newest (mostly newer) are a great general rule in i7 or i5 variants. Quite a lot overclocked (Several Ryzen builds are in use i bet). And just handfull of older systems like first gen icore, or Core2quad or duo. Bit of Fermi cards, some older AMD cards like HD7000. But there are just few of systems like those. I havent heared of anyone playing SWTOR that would use hardware that cant use dx11/dx12. Lots of laptop machines, that are also based on newer hardware. Now we all know how low on performance are laptops in most cases. Updating the game to finally be able to use newer hardware features would help all those laptop gamers and MORE! ?

[IntegrationArch]

I advice You to ask people in game. Tons of gtx 970, GTX 1060 and GTX 1070. Lots of RX 470/480 or R9 280/290 and r9 300 series. And i dont know how many GTX 1080 cards. CPUs? Quad core icore intel from gen 2 to newest (mostly newer) are a great general rule in i7 or i5 variants. Quite a lot overclocked (Several Ryzen builds are in use i bet). And just handfull of older systems like first gen icore, or Core2quad or duo. Bit of Fermi cards, some older AMD cards like HD7000. But there are just few of systems like those. I havent heared of anyone playing SWTOR that would use hardware that cant use dx11/dx12. Lots of laptop machines, that are also based on newer hardware. Now we all know how low on performance are laptops in most cases. Updating the game to finally be able to use newer hardware features would help all those laptop gamers and MORE! ?

 

EXACTLY. A system that can play EA Battlefront/II or ES or MASS EF that supports DX 12/11. So thats MAC / Win10/8.1/8 XBONE/PS4

Edited July 5, 2017 by IntegrationArch

[americanaussie]

We can discuss technical aspects all we want but the new stuff being released has slowed to a trickle. Does anyone actually think they have the manpower to update the engine?

[IntegrationArch]

We can discuss technical aspects all we want but the new stuff being released has slowed to a trickle. Does anyone actually think they have the manpower to update the engine?

 

Kieth confirmed the engine is not the problem so much it was how the db was laid out.

 

They must to keep the game viable and they win with a 5x explosion of subscriptions from new platforms. Keith and Eric would become VPs of EA / BW.

 

The bulk of the update work could be outsourced to a bubble crew. I even would like to see if Keith would let us coordinate a gofundme to offset costs.

 

The Disney licenses carry thorough 2023 and beyond so why kill it?

 

The critical question is how many subs will BW require to tease CX level decision makers to green light the conversion with sufficient profitability throughout the licensed time span?

Edited July 6, 2017 by IntegrationArch