Merge Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands Servers, Label Low Pop Servers

[kvandertulip]

The ranked PVP population is tiny on both servers so merging them would have no significant effect on Ranked PVP pops. For a very long time PVP activity has been migrating to Harbinger and away from the East coast servers.

 

I think there is a discussion to be had on what the impact would be. There are quite a few East Coast players that play on Harbinger because they don't have the option to play on the East Coast. It think there would be a good number of players who would be coming back to the East Coast if the population was better.

Edited June 6, 2017 by kvandertulip

[AlaricSevGirl]

If they merged, I'd transfer all of my toons back to EH.

[kvandertulip]

These servers were always PVE servers above all else, that was their original designation from the get go. They are full of people who like to PVE. PvP servers had their own until they killed them, and if they migrated over to PVE servers expecting them to be full of PVPers, well, they've got another thing coming. I don't PVP and never will here. That doesn't mean there is a population problem, it just means people don't dig on PVP on formerly PVE servers.

 

This is utter nonsense. PVE/PVP server connotations meant nothing even when servers had those labels.

[AscendingSky]

You are incorrect. It was me that said it and I will say it again so that you can read it. I have no problem getting any of the group content I want to participate in within the normal prime time for the server. unranked WZs pop every 3-5 minutes, I can run story mode flashpoints with only about a 15-30 minute wait (which is pretty good since nobody runs anything other than the solo ones from GC anyway). I run 3 Operations a week with my guild (all Hard mode). I have no problem buying or selling what I want on the GTN and prices are reasonable.

 

As far as outside of Prime time goes, it is unreasonable to expect group content pops to be good when it is the middle of the night in the time zone of the server and before you go "but Harbinger does", I would point out that Harbinger effectively has 2 prime times that overlap (one for the US and one for APAC which results in an overall extended prime time). Merging two servers in the same time zone will do nothing to change the population drop off outside prime time.

 

Your problem is using Group Finder to do the content not that the content is not being done. Your assertion that because you cannot get a pop through group finder means that the content is not being done due to low populations is incorrect.

 

And since you are going to say I am lying (since that is what you do when someone disagrees with you), let me put this bluntly. There is no reason to believe anything you say either.

 

As I recall, didn't someone else on the other thread that was (justifiably, I think) removed take several sets of screenshots over the course of a day comparing the populations of Harbinger and Shadowlands on the fleet and on starter planets at different times? If I'm remembering correctly, those consistently showed Shadowlands as having about 80% the activity of Harbinger. Sometimes the starter planet populations on Shadowlands even outnumbered Harbinger! Now, I don't play on Shadowlands myself, so I have no personal experience to compare those screenshots to, but those kinds of numbers don't sound like a 'dead' server to me...

Edited June 6, 2017 by AscendingSky

[DWho]

As I recall, didn't someone else on the other thread that was (justifiably, I think) removed take several sets of screenshots over the course of a day comparing the populations of Harbinger and Shadowlands on the fleet and on starter planets at different times? If I'm remembering correctly, those consistently showed Shadowlands as having about 80% the activity of Harbinger. Sometimes the starter planet populations on Shadowlands even outnumbered Harbinger! Now, I don't play on Shadowlands myself, so I have no personal experience to compare those screenshots to, but those kinds of numbers don't sound like a 'dead' server to me...

 

It was me and it was JC that I took screenshots of. I didn't take screenshots of Shadowlands. However, the survey of Shadowlands I did earlier that week showed that it too was far from dead.

[AscendingSky]

It was me and it was JC that I took screenshots of. I didn't take screenshots of Shadowlands. However, the survey of Shadowlands I did earlier that week showed that it too was far from dead.

 

Ah, gotcha, I got the server name wrong, but I knew I'd seen those screenshots. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[EzioMessi]

These servers were always PVE servers above all else, that was their original designation from the get go. They are full of people who like to PVE. PvP servers had their own until they killed them, and if they migrated over to PVE servers expecting them to be full of PVPers, well, they've got another thing coming. I don't PVP and never will here. That doesn't mean there is a population problem, it just means people don't dig on PVP on formerly PVE servers.

 

Umm it appears you don't actually know anything about the PvP community and how it migrated. Back when the server designation meant the difference between OWPvP and not having it, most of the Ranked community was concentrated in PoT5 (East Coast) and Bastion (West); almost the entirety of the OWPvP playing community was concentrated on Jung Ma (RP-PvP East Coast). When the distinction was dropped, Ranked PvPers decided that it's best to migrate to the server with the largest population. So for the most part, most of the Ranked community moved to Harb, which is why Harb has a "healthy" (and I use the term loosely) Ranked community. On the East Coast however, the popuations were lower than on Harb, and JC and Shadowlands suffered from the drop. I am not aware of how healthy Ranked is on TEH, but the point is, the old server distinction has nothing to do with the health of the Ranked community, it's got to do with player migration and player loss.

 

A merge of JC and Shadowlands would simply ensure that the relatively small Ranked communities on both can now fight in a larger pool of Ranked players; it doesn't negatively affect PvErs, it doesn't negatively affect solo players (literally, nothing is FORCING solo players to group up at all), and I understand the concerns for both names and in-game investments, but if they manage to fix those problems, there's little reason not to do it.

 

Solo Ranked currently has 25000 players on the leaderboard, and it forms a tiny, tiny fraction of the PvP community. Even if you assume that Ranked is played by 25% of the PvP playerbase (which quite frankly is very, very overestimated) that'd mean there's around 100000 players in this game who PvP, and regularly have their concerns about PvP ignored.

 

So no, the world really is bigger than "I will never PvP, so please Bioware, ignore them entirely!" If you have any other points for why server merges shoudn't be done, that aren't "I don't like PvP but pretend to have insight into what killed PvP" feel free to discuss that.

[Nightblazer]

From another thread:

 

 

 

If this thread has not already been reported as a spam "merge servers" thread, I am certain it will be soon.

 

I'll go out on a limb and predict that this thread will have a shorter lifespan than the average housefly.

 

 

That said, Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands seem to be doing fine based on my experience and that of others on those servers, judging by the posts in the previous "merge servers" threads, as well as the latest thread created by Eric.

 

If a player finds that one of those servers is not to his liking, that player has the option to move to a server more to his liking. There is no need to subject multitudes of players to suffer the nightmares and headaches that server merges would cause, IMO.

 

Lol never fails.

 

BW: we have made a centralized thread for server merge discussion, please post your thoughts in this thread.

 

Players: no why bother, I'll just make another thread.

[NuSeC]

From another thread:

 

 

 

If this thread has not already been reported as a spam "merge servers" thread, I am certain it will be soon.

 

I'll go out on a limb and predict that this thread will have a shorter lifespan than the average housefly.

 

 

That said, Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands seem to be doing fine based on my experience and that of others on those servers, judging by the posts in the previous "merge servers" threads, as well as the latest thread created by Eric.

 

If a player finds that one of those servers is not to his liking, that player has the option to move to a server more to his liking. There is no need to subject multitudes of players to suffer the nightmares and headaches that server merges would cause, IMO.

 

Not sure what "others" you are talking about here, however be sure there are many "others" that disagree with you. I would also predict that the vast majority would prefer a lager population.

 

I am totally in favor of a merge if they (BW) can fix some of the naming issues and allow GMs to transfer guild assets as those are almost always the greatest downsides.

 

There is nothing wrong with a bigger pop and a larger pool of players for group content in MMORPGs. Anyone saying anything else is lying to themselves or do not understand the meaning of an MMO.

Edited June 6, 2017 by NuSeC

[NuSeC]

I'm still waiting for ANY concrete, rock solid, irrefutable evidence that server merges would greatly increase queue pops for ranked PVP.

 

 

Because it happened in the past after the last merger. I know... I PVP a lot. I don't need to count on what someone who does PVP told me, as you claimed you did in a previous post.

[jimmorrisson]

I am all for the merger if the destination server is Shadowlands

[Lunafox]

Umm it appears you don't actually know anything about the PvP community and how it migrated. Back when the server designation meant the difference between OWPvP and not having it, most of the Ranked community was concentrated in PoT5 (East Coast) and Bastion (West); almost the entirety of the OWPvP playing community was concentrated on Jung Ma (RP-PvP East Coast). When the distinction was dropped, Ranked PvPers decided that it's best to migrate to the server with the largest population. So for the most part, most of the Ranked community moved to Harb, which is why Harb has a "healthy" (and I use the term loosely) Ranked community. On the East Coast however, the popuations were lower than on Harb, and JC and Shadowlands suffered from the drop. I am not aware of how healthy Ranked is on TEH, but the point is, the old server distinction has nothing to do with the health of the Ranked community, it's got to do with player migration and player loss.

 

A merge of JC and Shadowlands would simply ensure that the relatively small Ranked communities on both can now fight in a larger pool of Ranked players; it doesn't negatively affect PvErs, it doesn't negatively affect solo players (literally, nothing is FORCING solo players to group up at all), and I understand the concerns for both names and in-game investments, but if they manage to fix those problems, there's little reason not to do it.

 

Solo Ranked currently has 25000 players on the leaderboard, and it forms a tiny, tiny fraction of the PvP community. Even if you assume that Ranked is played by 25% of the PvP playerbase (which quite frankly is very, very overestimated) that'd mean there's around 100000 players in this game who PvP, and regularly have their concerns about PvP ignored.

 

So no, the world really is bigger than "I will never PvP, so please Bioware, ignore them entirely!" If you have any other points for why server merges shoudn't be done, that aren't "I don't like PvP but pretend to have insight into what killed PvP" feel free to discuss that.

 

I play the server and I do have eyes and ears even if I don't interact. What I'm saying is exactly that, the pvpers, for the most part, went to Harbinger and being PVE servers pvp doesn't seem a huge priority to most, being as people went there to do pve above everything else and now that there are instances, well, I can tell you on Shadowlands, no one goes to the pvp instance unless they're in a hurry to do a quest and the pve instances are overrun with people trying to get their things done. So, in a nutshell, I don't think pvpers would find a lot going for them on the pve servers, and that's why they don't get the pops, not because there is a lack of players, there's just a lack of players that participate in pvp regularly...it's an afterthought, not a focus. If Harby is where the pvp action is, why don't they just go there?

 

I'm not saying for Bioware to ignore pvpers entirely, I'm just saying that to force two servers together in the mistaken thought that it's suddenly going to make people pvp or group more isn't fair to the populations that are happy on the servers. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

A merge the way things are right now, WOULD adversely affect the soloers and the pvers, because there is no way to do it without personal and guild assets being lost. I've plunged billions of credits and real life money into guild ships and strongholds, to open and decorate them. Why should people like me have to sacrifice and give that up so others can have a quicker pop. Imagine if you were asked to give up billions and real life money to people who won't even solve their own issues by transferring, which is basically free...90cc and if you use the monthly alotment, it would be free.

 

So no, I don't want a merge because I don't want to lose all my guild deco, ships and strongholds, not to mention my clothing slots and names. That's too much to ask of anyone. I've been here since before launch and have spent and accumulated too much to give it up again in a transfer. It would be devastating and it would make me leave the game.

 

Until such time as they can merge with guilds and guild properties intact and people can keep their names and clothing and bank slots, then no. No merge and that's my two cents. If there was a way to protect these things and give people faster pops I wouldn't care so much, even though I prefer a quieter server than a hell pit like Harbinger.

[EzioMessi]

I play the server and I do have eyes and ears even if I don't interact. What I'm saying is exactly that, the pvpers, for the most part, went to Harbinger and being PVE servers pvp doesn't seem a huge priority to most, being as people went there to do pve above everything else and now that there are instances, well, I can tell you on Shadowlands, no one goes to the pvp instance unless they're in a hurry to do a quest and the pve instances are overrun with people trying to get their things done. So, in a nutshell, I don't think pvpers would find a lot going for them on the pve servers, and that's why they don't get the pops, not because there is a lack of players, there's just a lack of players that participate in pvp regularly...it's an afterthought, not a focus. If Harby is where the pvp action is, why don't they just go there?

 

I'm not saying for Bioware to ignore pvpers entirely, I'm just saying that to force two servers together in the mistaken thought that it's suddenly going to make people pvp or group more isn't fair to the populations that are happy on the servers. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

A merge the way things are right now, WOULD adversely affect the soloers and the pvers, because there is no way to do it without personal and guild assets being lost. I've plunged billions of credits and real life money into guild ships and strongholds, to open and decorate them. Why should people like me have to sacrifice and give that up so others can have a quicker pop. Imagine if you were asked to give up billions and real life money to people who won't even solve their own issues by transferring, which is basically free...90cc and if you use the monthly alotment, it would be free.

 

So no, I don't want a merge because I don't want to lose all my guild deco, ships and strongholds, not to mention my clothing slots and names. That's too much to ask of anyone. I've been here since before launch and have spent and accumulated too much to give it up again in a transfer. It would be devastating and it would make me leave the game.

 

Until such time as they can merge with guilds and guild properties intact and people can keep their names and clothing and bank slots, then no. No merge and that's my two cents. If there was a way to protect these things and give people faster pops I wouldn't care so much, even though I prefer a quieter server than a hell pit like Harbinger.

 

The question of "why don't you just move to Harb" has many answers. Maybe the ping is intolerably high on Harb (PvP is very ping sensitive, ask the APAC players, they'd know best). Maybe they, much like you, don't want to lose all the real life money they spent on their in-game items because they didn't expect Bioware to so thoroughly murder their favourite activities.

 

Measuring who goes to a PvP instance is NOT a measure of Ranked and Unranked queue PvP. Even on Harb, no one goes to PvP instances, simply because there's really never a reason to. If you want to measure PvP activity, type in the words "Hypergate", "Void", "Pit", "Proving", "Novare", "Civil", and "Arena" one after the other, and count how many multiples of 8 you see (4 for arenas). That's the only way to measure PvP population on a server. You could also just look at Ranked leaderboards, measure how many players there are on that server. OWPvP does not measure Ranked or Unranked warzones health.

 

And almost everyone reasonable agrees that issues like guildships and outfits and whatnot have to be sorted out for merges. The point is, you have to accept that even if you don't personally see the reason for a merge, many others do, and insisting that their demands are somehow less important than yours isn't going to do anything, especially now of all times, when Bioware has realized how badly they screwed up by catering to solo players for 2 years and want to improve on group content.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

I didn't create this thread in this forum. As it has been currently relocated, it does not feel appropriate. I messaged Eric about this. I am going to request that if he does not move this thread back to where it was that it just be locked.

 

A server forum is for ordinary business of game play on the server. An advocacy thread on server merges is not that.

Edited June 7, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[RobertFKennedyUS]

Lol never fails.

 

BW: we have made a centralized thread for server merge discussion, please post your thoughts in this thread.

 

Players: no why bother, I'll just make another thread.

 

Just foolish assumptions, being what never fails. Originally this thread was something I created 5 months before the creation of the other thread. It was then merged into another thread and then deleted. I immediately restored it afterwards. I didn't get a message in my mailbox from Eric saying "stop stop, I beat you to it", nor should I have to. As I already mentioned, there are infinite other threads that actually are duplicates of one another. This one isn't.

 

With that being said, since this thread has once again been altered by the mods (moved from General Discussion to Shadowlands server subforum), I'm content to just seeing it locked. I did what I could, if the thread is to be constantly bastardized in some form, then it's better that it just be completely suppressed.

Edited June 7, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[kvandertulip]

pvp doesn't seem a huge priority to most...........here's just a lack of players that participate in pvp regularly...it's an afterthought, not a focus.

 

There is no basis for this statement and it is just plain not true. You are projecting your own disinterest in pvp on the rest of the player base.

[BlackSilverRoar]

There is absoluetly nothing wrong with the server population on Shadowlands. PVP pops regulary, starts as early as 8 am and goes well into the wee hours, most times 70s regs pop within 5 minutes of queceing. Plenty of pug Operations groups as well.

 

There is not one of those points on your list that applies to Shadowlands. That there is a limited amount of people who are NiM worthy applies to all servers as a result of taking gear out of Operations at the start of 5.0. Many progression raiders simply left the game.

 

Jedi covenant might have a problem, but Shadowlands doesn't.

 

I have no objection to a merger for Jedi Covenant's sake, providing that they are willing to lose the name of their former server [Jedi Covenant] and accept The Shadowlands server name as is.

 

All Jedi must die =]

 

^Totally agree.

 

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with The Shadowlands and that server shouldn't have to change its name (not to imply that I agree to a server merge at all; *cringe. I'd MUCH rather see cross-server grouping, like other MMOs); also, both servers' GTN prices appear pretty normal and usual enough. The OP must be on Jedi Covenant.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Willjb

[BlackSilverRoar]

From another thread:

 

 

 

If this thread has not already been reported as a spam "merge servers" thread, I am certain it will be soon.

 

I'll go out on a limb and predict that this thread will have a shorter lifespan than the average housefly.

 

 

That said, Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands seem to be doing fine based on my experience and that of others on those servers, judging by the posts in the previous "merge servers" threads, as well as the latest thread created by Eric.

 

If a player finds that one of those servers is not to his liking, that player has the option to move to a server more to his liking. There is no need to subject multitudes of players to suffer the nightmares and headaches that server merges would cause, IMO.

 

Omg, I know really^

[Nohctra]

Note that I said MOST group activities.

 

Ranked is only ONE group activity and hardly the only group activity.

 

Please provide concrete, rock solid, irrefutable evidence that server merges will greatly increase queue pops for ranked PVP.

 

I'll wait.

 

what? 75% of ranked matches are the same teams going against each other over and over again. A merge would obviously help and that doesn't involve critical thinking.

 

hardly the only group activity.

 

One of the few you need to premade to succeed....clearly you don't pvp and your input is biased because your anti-merge. Like it's a bad thing lol.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Regarding population on the Shadowlands.

 

Took this just yesterday

 

https://ibb.co/daHBfv

 

Tried 2nd time, same thing, third time a few minutes later and got in .

Edited June 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx