Glocko Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) They (Sorcs) can survive..... And who plays PT even if they were OP nobody would play that boring class Oh and lets not forget why the SORC DPS is kow,,, because thet are also healing for a half mill to a mill Take away their delf heal and give them a buff sure.... Edited June 5, 2017 by Glocko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerSchneider Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) What do Lightning Sorcs and MM snipers have to do with Juggs? Lightning Sorcs and MM snipers have the lowest DPS in the game. Just in case you have an old version of the DPS chart, the following one is current as of 5.0. Juggs have far more DPS than many others, the lowest DPS spec for Juggs comes in at Rank 11 out of 18. There is even one Marauder spec that comes in lower than them. Both PT dps specs come in lower than Juggs as well. Yea and lethality operative gets focused not because they have garbage dcds, but because they're dangerous :D:D Makes me laugh when people trying so hard to prevent a really needed buff to the class. FYI: pve dps charts have no meaning at all in pvp. Potential pvp dps is affected by many many factors such as easiness of the possible burst, uptime and dcd nature. For example, MM sniper parses very low in pve, but is one of the most desirable dps for solo and team ranked. Why? Because they are immune to CC for a huge amount of time, they can set up their burst very quick and don't have to spend actual dcds for defensives (except roll). Edited June 5, 2017 by DerSchneider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 So this post is kind of funny. On one hand, you're saying "Our only problem is survivability!" (which I agree with), and on the other, "But I need to be able to taunt things to attack me!". In any case the change that I had said I was thinking about there is too powerful anyway. I just find it funny that you complained about survivability and also complained about an idea that would have given you a 30% DR boost for 33% of the time (at the cost of taunting) in the same post Different situations pve and pvp you know. Besides if a shadow dps or pt dps can taunt in pvp and get protection points it only logically follows that guardian dps should be able to too. If you want to take taunt from all dps specs ok fine I guess. Though I'd prefer a different solution because of pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolxtren Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 They (Sorcs) can survive..... And who plays PT even if they were OP nobody would play that boring class your joking right ? the momment god bubble goes off a lighting sorc prety much death. and melee dps ers can force that bubble in mere seconds after they jump you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glocko Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 your joking right ? the momment god bubble goes off a lighting sorc prety much death. and melee dps ers can force that bubble in mere seconds after they jump you...... I guess you are the sorc that places his phase walk right where he bubbles ... I think I have queued up with you before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolxtren Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I guess you are the sorc that places his phase walk right where he bubbles ... I think I have queued up with you before... no im the sorc that gets tunneled to crap the momment people notices im lighting............ a sorc is useless in todays pvp matches if its not babby sited with guard. Jugs crying is lol btw they have some issues but they are overal fine. Meanwhile light sorc with the lowest dps from all classes and lowest defenses need a rework. the class is borderline useless and a free kill to any not braindead melee DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) Yea and lethality operative gets focused not because they have garbage dcds, but because they're dangerous :D:D Makes me laugh when people trying so hard to prevent a really needed buff to the class. FYI: pve dps charts have no meaning at all in pvp. Potential pvp dps is affected by many many factors such as easiness of the possible burst, uptime and dcd nature. For example, MM sniper parses very low in pve, but is one of the most desirable dps for solo and team ranked. Why? Because they are immune to CC for a huge amount of time, they can set up their burst very quick and don't have to spend actual dcds for defensives (except roll). The DPS chart was part of the poster's post I was responding to, they brought up the DPS chart and therefore I sited it my response, as you can see they sited juggs as being 'at the bottom of the DPS charts' which they are not, hencly why I included it as I felt they perhaps were working with an incorrect chart. The post was as follows - Easy to tell that Jugg needs a Buff before any class: Who should you attack first in an Arena? Healer - No Most Dangerous DPS - No You attack the Jugg DPS..... That is wahy we knew Merc was broke it does not make any sense. Let's take out the DPS that is at the bottom of the DPS charts first.... Least Dps + Least Survivability = needs immediate buff Therefore my inclusion of said DPS chart in my response was very relevant. I am well aware of the differences in the two forms of game play, but, to say that the level of DPS output of the classes is somehow morphs and becomes vastly different on a mechanical basis between PVE and PVP would be a false statement. I agree that factors involved can be different, in some instances, but with regard to general performance there are remarkable similarities between the performance of classes as seemingly shadowing some of these positions. i.e. Lightning sorcs, PTs, are more often than not top performers in terms of DPS compared to mercs and snipers who tend to have higher DPS outputs [generally speaking], which reflects the DPS chart's positioning of the classes. - But I do agree, there are many variables involved and DPS chart is not a bible and not a stand alone gauge of DPS performance. That said, if we are to use experience and a more general analysis of what we see in performance in PVP, it would be impossible to conclude that Juggs have poor dps output. If your are argument were based on survivability factors, I would agree that Juggs need some anti-focus and mobility considerations for for ranked. Which is why I proposed extending the use of Force Camoflage to Juggs as well as Marauders. They share other like abilities [such as Ravage, Sweeping Slash, Force Charge and Saber Ward] so extending Force Camoflage to them, as fellow Sith Warriors would be no great leap in reasoning. It affords them both anti-focus and mobility benefits. Furthermore, the issues facing Juggs that are being discussed remain the perview only of ranked. I'm sure you yourself would agree that Juggs are often top performers in Regs and clearly can lay the smack down. They have a strong CC kit and their ability to leap to friendly targets is a nice mobility feature, costing them nothing in cooldown time to leap to enemies. I've yet to see anyone complain about them being squishy in regs. The skank tank option is boarderline OP and in my personal opinion, no tank spec should be able to put out DPS like they can. The problem is that what you do to one area of play class wise, you do to every other area of play for that class. So what addresses concerns in Ranked, wherein those concerns do not exist in regs and PVE, than boosts a class in those other areas of play in ways that are not necessary or justified. Read the back posts on this thread, and I believe you will find that there are many Jugg players themselves stating that there is nothing at all wrong with their DPS. A DPS boost for them would apply to regs as well as ranked, and to all of PVE. Idealy, there should be a separation between areas of play that would allow a certain build for one and another build for the other. That would allow for a greater amount of fine tuning to meet the needs of specific modes of play. But until such a time as that comes, you must consider the effects a buff or a nerf will have on the other areas of play. As you yourself pointed out, that DPS chart applies more to PVE than it does to PVP. Which means that a buff to DPS would also effect PVE as well, and as you can see, they do not have poor DPS output potential, it is quite decent. And in PVE their defensive capabilities are quite sufficient. A buff to their DPS and their defensives would make them too strong in regs and PVE. You might not care about that, but many others would. We have enough problems with OP classes. We don't need more so concerns as such should be entertained. I strongly encourage the devs to consider extending to Juggs the use of Force Camoflage without any loss from any other area of their abilities, as an add on to address their focus issues and to help them with some added mobility. I'd consider perhaps a sharing of perdation instead as that would clearly help with mobility but it wouldn't do much for anti-focus, with all the ranged running around, so Force Camoflage I think would be of greater benefit to them and addressing their needs. Edited June 6, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If you think PTs are a crap class, you should l2p. Pts are a lot of fun, an with good dcds would be very powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If you think PTs are a crap class, you should l2p. Pts are a lot of fun, an with good dcds would be very powerful. Yeah, especially AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Yeah, especially AP. not sure if you're being sarcastic here lol, but to be fair, he has a point. well, they both do, isn't that the whole argument about pt's is that they don't have defensives? I think seterade is misunderstanding and thinking people are saying the class is bad as a whole, but also people do tend to forget that PT still has some incredibly nasty damage potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 And who plays PT even if they were OP nobody would play that boring class I ment directly to this. And yes, the dmg a PT can out is se-xiii. and its lot of fun. but a lot of ppl don't know how to play pt an they decide the reason its boring is cause they cant have fun playing it. honestly, I play my pt more than my sin main now (mostly because my sin is in BiS gear an literally farms ppl in pvp- like full to 0 in 9 second. anyone who say BiS an starting bolster is a 10% difference may need some hlp with their rotation.. its like nubs are paper.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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