Aim bots in GSF?

[Volthammer]

Just curious if it's even possible. A match I was in last night Imp side vs. Pubs was very, very odd. Gunships were targeting and 1 shotting team mates in 1 second flat. It happened to me several times. lol I had one gun ship targeted that was focusing someone else. He polished them off instantly and turned on me and within 1 second I was back at spawn. It was like that the whole very short match.

 

It may have just been a team of all maxed out Pub ships, but I have never ever seen the likes of that before in any GSF match. They beat us 50 to 5 with 7 minutes left to go. ha ha

[merovejec]

I did have such matches on TRE where the other team just "Gunshipped us to death" but I knew most of the names and I knew they were good players so I think it was just skill probably and the fact that there was more GSs shooting at the same time, same target.

[agelosek]

Yes... on TRE there are some very odd fighters.

[merovejec]

Yes... on TRE there are some very odd fighters.

 

Well sure, I did see quite a few strange things in GSF on TRE, but I am not that kind of guy who goes on saying that those are cheaters.

 

I still dont understand GSF fully, eventhough I have over 600 matches played. In that way im glad there are no upgrades so far so that you can catch up with the current system. I had times when a gunship popped out from behind the corner, and in 1 second i was dead. I didnt even get to turn my ship to aim and shot and he already got me, considering the GS needs to charge up its attack (and i was full hull and shields).

 

There are buffs, crits and many different settings for your ships so people in a specific configuration can do wonders. I for myself am not able to play the Flashfire, I simply suck at it and dont understand how people got so many kills with them!

[DownloadStarter]

I don't know if this particular instance was due to aim bots, but they do exist in GSF. I seem to recall several members of a GSF guild on Ebon Hawk or JC or somewhere getting caught using them. (I think it was Ebon Hawk. Don't quote me.)

[Eldarion_Velator]

I can only speak to my personal experience, but if you have decent natural (or learned) marksmanship, can anticipate your targets, and you can find what I like to call your game's "sweet spot" - which I'll explain shortly - gunship accuracy of over 65% is routine, and accuracy of 80% or more can be achieved with some regularity.

 

With regards to the "sweet spot" - after I'd played about 1000 matches across my legacy (I now have roughly 5500), I started noticing more consistent hits when aiming at targets that were in a specific area of my targeting reticle. In short, for more consistent results I now line up my reticle slightly (but noticeably) below the center of my targets (including those that aren't currently selected). I've found that this works with not just my gunships, but also my scouts and strikes (though with scouts and strikes I don't have as many observations because of the nature of scout/strike combat and because I don't fly them as often as gunships). I've spoken with a handful of other pilots who report similar results, though their "sweet spot" is different from mine; one pilot remarked that he has to aim slightly to the side (he didn't specify which side) of center for the results I speak of. It would appear that everyone's game will be a little different so it is on the individual pilot to try to find his/her game's "sweet spot," and work with the results accordingly.

 

Another ability that not nearly enough pilots seem to use is strafing (by default this is hotkeyed as [shift]+directional key; you can strafe in any direction in GSF since it's 3D space, and it works best if you hold down [shift] before using the directional key). The reason why I say marksmanship is important is because in GSF you may have noticed that in order to hit moving targets you must lead them (i.e. keep your reticle ahead of their current motion). When you track (move your reticle in concert with) a moving target while stationary, much of the time the target will move outside of your firing arc, which causes you to incur a tracking penalty that reduces your accuracy. When you strafe, it's much easier to keep your target within your firing arc to avoid the tracking penalty, while at the same time increasing the chance that you will have caused anyone who is targeting you to incur the tracking penalty.

 

EDIT: I've never used hacks/aimbots, but with some careful observation and disciplined flying (as well as the use of things like the Wingman crew ability and the plasma railgun's evasion reduction upgrade on the Comet Breaker) I've been able to achieve pretty decent results - and though my main toons' overall accuracy is low due to my early matches and my continued use of some weapons not known for their accuracy (e.g. burst laser cannons), some of my toons' gunship-specific accuracies now edge or exceed 60%. I can imagine matches like the one you mentioned occurring if you have multiple pilots who are as accurate as I am (or more so) on the same team who are covering each other, but with no effective countering pilots on the opposing team.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Eldarion_Velator
minor additions

[Lavaar]

To answer your question

 

There are no aim bots in GSF

[MaximilianPower]

@OP - no, there aren't any aimbots in GSF. The only true hack I've ever witnessed (in thousands of matches, going back to closed beta) involved some bombers on TRE, who managed to make their way inside satellites. Meaning, literally within the geometry. From there, they were unhittable. Those players were reported and I believe that behavior has ceased (although someone from TRE may correct me on that). There's also a "lag hack" which involves intentionally inducing lag. The result is that the offending ship will appear to skip around, becoming nearly impossible to hit with direct-fire weapons (missiles sometimes work). I hesitate to call it an actual hack because it's pretty awful. While lagging, you're useless. You can't hit anything either.

 

I'm going to hazard a guess that the 1-shots you experienced last night occurred in a TDM. Aside from a slug railgun crit, the only scenario which allows a gunship to land a 1-shot kill is when he picks up a damage overcharge (red) power-up. This grants double damage. Everything aside from a bomber will die to a DO-fueled slug shot in one hit. Doesn't even need to be fully charged.

 

As for targeting: here's another little GS trick of the trade. A gunship doesn't need to have you targeted in order to hit you. In other words, if I saw both you and player B within 15km, I could target your teammate, but actually hit you - merely by aiming my railgun at the small square over your ship. Centering my shot on that square is just as effective as using the standard targeting reticle. This is something I do all the time, intentionally: the opposition never really knows exactly who I'm aiming at, and as a result, sometimes I can take them off guard. Doesn't work against top players, but it's fairly effective against everyone else. I've been accused of hacking for doing this.

 

Most accusations of HAXX are borne of a lack of understanding. New players don't understand DO, and they don't understand the power of a T2 scout - which can burst you down in a second with weapons like BLC and rocket pods, assisted by a systems component like targeting telemetry (which increases critical chance and magnitude). Those kills are often incorrectly interpreted as 1-shots too, since simultaneous BLC & pod hits land in a single volley.

I don't know if this particular instance was due to aim bots, but they do exist in GSF. I seem to recall several members of a GSF guild on Ebon Hawk or JC or somewhere getting caught using them. (I think it was Ebon Hawk. Don't quote me.)

 

This strikes me as unlikely. Whatever you're referring to certainly never happened on JC, where I've played most of my games. I've never heard of anything like that on TEH either. Perhaps a TEH denizen can weigh in here.

[Ramalina]

SammyGS had at least one of his Aimbot alts on TEH for awhile I believe. However, though Sammy is THE Aimbot in GSF he sounds more natural on VOIP than any speech program I've ever heard and he passes the Turing Test with flying colors with respect to a bunch of topics, so I'm fairly sure he's not a computer program (unless you count DNA and RNA and human bodies as a bio-physical form of code implementation).

 

 

To make it clear to those that aren't GSF geezers, SammyGS was one of the very early top notch gunship pilots, and after being accused many times of hacking by noobs who didn't know anything about Slug Railgun, Damage Overcharge, and how to Line of Sight, he made alts named variations of Aimbot on multiple servers as a joke.

 

People still fall for it. Including sometimes when GSF geezers are just talking about old times in /GSF.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Ramalina

[MaximilianPower]

lol ramalina, i cannot believe i didn't think of that. earlier, i posted on discord asking about about any unsavory TEH goings-on around aimbots, and the first response, indeed, suggested Aimbot.

 

so, to clarify for anyone in this thread: there are no aimbots in GSF. however, there is a singular Aimbot. he doesn't play much anymore, but i did see him as recently as 3 or 4 weeks ago (on SL).

 

one more comment about aimbots: if such a thing existed in game, wouldn't we see 100% accuracy regularly? acc% on the final scoreboard is based on the percentage of accurate shots, meaning misses due to evasion rolls are actually counted as hits. a real aimbot would inevitably hit the 100% mark frequently (or always). and i've never seen anyone score 100% accuracy across an entire match (excepting certain bombers with very low hit/miss totals). i've seen 90% a few times (i've done that myself), but 100%? never.

Edited May 4, 2017 by MaximilianPower

[Kolskeggur]

lol ramalina, i cannot believe i didn't think of that. earlier, i posted on discord asking about about any unsavory TEH goings-on around aimbots, and the first response, indeed, suggested Aimbot.

 

so, to clarify for anyone in this thread: there are no aimbots in GSF. however, there is a singular Aimbot. he doesn't play much anymore, but i did see him as recently as 3 or 4 weeks ago (on SL).

 

one more comment about aimbots: if such a thing existed in game, wouldn't we see 100% accuracy regularly? acc% on the final scoreboard is based on the percentage of accurate shots, meaning misses due to evasion rolls are actually counted as hits. a real aimbot would inevitably hit the 100% mark frequently (or always). and i've never seen anyone score 100% accuracy across an entire match (excepting certain bombers with very low hit/miss totals). i've seen 90% a few times (i've done that myself), but 100%? never.

 

If someone were to use an aimbot I'd bet on them not wanting it to be 100%, since that'd be a dead-giveaway. Just saying. Not that I even know if it'd be possible to make it anything less than 100%, but... o.o

[Lavaar]

SammyGS had at least one of his Aimbot alts on TEH for awhile I believe. However, though Sammy is THE Aimbot in GSF he sounds more natural on VOIP than any speech program I've ever heard and he passes the Turing Test with flying colors with respect to a bunch of topics, so I'm fairly sure he's not a computer program (unless you count DNA and RNA and human bodies as a bio-physical form of code implementation).

 

 

To make it clear to those that aren't GSF geezers, SammyGS was one of the very early top notch gunship pilots, and after being accused many times of hacking by noobs who didn't know anything about Slug Railgun, Damage Overcharge, and how to Line of Sight, he made alts named variations of Aimbot on multiple servers as a joke.

 

People still fall for it. Including sometimes when GSF geezers are just talking about old times in /GSF.

 

I've met SammyG in person before, if he is an android, he is certainly a very well disguised one.

[DownloadStarter]

@OP - no, there aren't any aimbots in GSF. The only true hack I've ever witnessed (in thousands of matches, going back to closed beta) involved some bombers on TRE, who managed to make their way inside satellites. Meaning, literally within the geometry. From there, they were unhittable. Those players were reported and I believe that behavior has ceased (although someone from TRE may correct me on that). There's also a "lag hack" which involves intentionally inducing lag. The result is that the offending ship will appear to skip around, becoming nearly impossible to hit with direct-fire weapons (missiles sometimes work). I hesitate to call it an actual hack because it's pretty awful. While lagging, you're useless. You can't hit anything either.

 

I'm going to hazard a guess that the 1-shots you experienced last night occurred in a TDM. Aside from a slug railgun crit, the only scenario which allows a gunship to land a 1-shot kill is when he picks up a damage overcharge (red) power-up. This grants double damage. Everything aside from a bomber will die to a DO-fueled slug shot in one hit. Doesn't even need to be fully charged.

 

As for targeting: here's another little GS trick of the trade. A gunship doesn't need to have you targeted in order to hit you. In other words, if I saw both you and player B within 15km, I could target your teammate, but actually hit you - merely by aiming my railgun at the small square over your ship. Centering my shot on that square is just as effective as using the standard targeting reticle. This is something I do all the time, intentionally: the opposition never really knows exactly who I'm aiming at, and as a result, sometimes I can take them off guard. Doesn't work against top players, but it's fairly effective against everyone else. I've been accused of hacking for doing this.

 

Most accusations of HAXX are borne of a lack of understanding. New players don't understand DO, and they don't understand the power of a T2 scout - which can burst you down in a second with weapons like BLC and rocket pods, assisted by a systems component like targeting telemetry (which increases critical chance and magnitude). Those kills are often incorrectly interpreted as 1-shots too, since simultaneous BLC & pod hits land in a single volley.

 

 

This strikes me as unlikely. Whatever you're referring to certainly never happened on JC, where I've played most of my games. I've never heard of anything like that on TEH either. Perhaps a TEH denizen can weigh in here.

 

I'm not going to link to them as it would be a violation of the Terms of Service, but yes, hacks and trainers exist for all forms of SWTOR PvP and PvE. One of the most popular (and least detectable) is a trainer that flies PvE space missions for you. Another popular one is a crew skill manager - sends out your companions for you automatically.

 

Never underestimate the will to cheat. (But definitely be surprised at how much effort goes into it!)

[MaximilianPower]

I'm not going to link to them as it would be a violation of the Terms of Service, but yes, hacks and trainers exist for all forms of SWTOR PvP and PvE. One of the most popular (and least detectable) is a trainer that flies PvE space missions for you. Another popular one is a crew skill manager - sends out your companions for you automatically.

 

Never underestimate the will to cheat. (But definitely be surprised at how much effort goes into it!)

 

oh yes, indeed, I'm aware of the pvp and pve cheats. i imagine it's unbelievably easy to build a bot for the space missions. because all ships follow the same preset path, every single time. crew skill one makes sense too.

 

I maintain that GSF is different. no bot can predict the path of human enemies. i mean, i suppose someone could write a bot which would fly one's ship into an asteroid over and over, or even within range of a satellite. but that's about it. despite certain players' assertions otherwise, there are no aimbots that destroy enemy ships, or bestow permanent DO, or supernatural evasion, or invulnerability. as stated above, my evidence is this: if there was a cheat, we'd see it in use. and aside from the aforementioned bombers hiding in sats, i have yet to see or hear of any real proof of an actual working hack.

 

and yes, good call on not posting links to possible hacks. a guy did that here a few months ago and was subsequently banned. however, if anyone believes they know of a real hack, feel free to contact me (via PM, discord, whatever) and i'll be happy to explain how/why it isn't a hack at all.

[DownloadStarter]

oh yes, indeed, I'm aware of the pvp and pve cheats. i imagine it's unbelievably easy to build a bot for the space missions. because all ships follow the same preset path, every single time. crew skill one makes sense too.

 

I maintain that GSF is different. no bot can predict the path of human enemies. i mean, i suppose someone could write a bot which would fly one's ship into an asteroid over and over, or even within range of a satellite. but that's about it. despite certain players' assertions otherwise, there are no aimbots that destroy enemy ships, or bestow permanent DO, or supernatural evasion, or invulnerability. as stated above, my evidence is this: if there was a cheat, we'd see it in use. and aside from the aforementioned bombers hiding in sats, i have yet to see or hear of any real proof of an actual working hack.

 

and yes, good call on not posting links to possible hacks. a guy did that here a few months ago and was subsequently banned. however, if anyone believes they know of a real hack, feel free to contact me (via PM, discord, whatever) and i'll be happy to explain how/why it isn't a hack at all.

 

Right. In this case, one would simply use a program that fires on proper mouseover. Given your extensive experience with the game mode, I'm sure you're aware there are, in fact, multiple crosshair display states - including one where guns are on target and have their best chance to hit?

 

To my knowledge, that was the specific type of program used by the aforementioned, unnamed group. (So it's probably a bad idea for anyone else to try it, as the devs are already wise to it!)

[MaximilianPower]

Right. In this case, one would simply use a program that fires on proper mouseover. Given your extensive experience with the game mode, I'm sure you're aware there are, in fact, multiple crosshair display states - including one where guns are on target and have their best chance to hit?

 

To my knowledge, that was the specific type of program used by the aforementioned, unnamed group. (So it's probably a bad idea for anyone else to try it, as the devs are already wise to it!)

 

well sure, some ne'er-do-well could theoretically write a bot capable of triggering weapons fire when the guns are on target. that would be pretty effective - if the goal was nailing stationary targets. but this is pretty rare in GSF. moving/drifting (by both the shooter and the target), plus plain old lag, would conspire to render such a bot effectively useless.

 

i'm not suggesting that some kind of bot is totally impossible, or that no one has ever tried to create such a thing. i'll amend my assertion like this: no effective aimbot has ever reared its ugly head in GSF. it just isn't (nor has ever been) a problem.

[Greezt]

Why aimbots would be useless in GSF (or mostly so):

 

In GSF, your ability to hit your target is governed by two factors - your ability land the shot on target, and your ability to center the shot. Take for example the most obvious candidate for aimbotting - a gunship with railguns. Any railgun has a 5% accuracy drop per degree off center - meaning, if you're two degrees off center you're losing 10% accuracy against your target. Two out of the three railguns have an upgrade that eliminates the first 4% penalty you receive, but after that you still get that extremely harsh tracking.

 

An aimbot can't fix for tracking, only for your ability to place your cursor on the enemy's targeting reticle. Meaning, more often than not using an aimbot will result in firing high deflection shots. 6° off in a slug railgun (half your firing arc, depending on your crew) is -25% to your accuracy stat. if you add to this passive evasion, you're left with ~50% hit chance on anything more than a bomber or a strike. Even without a cooldown active you have less than 50% of hitting a scout like this.

 

As for aimbotting on scouts or any other ship with blasters - in GSF you're moving while aiming with blasters. Any app that will snap your mouse to your target will gimp your ability to control your ship while aiming.

 

In short - aimbots are a possibility, no one would argue otherwise. They're not a reliable option though, and their worth is doubly questionable when regarding accuracy, evasion, tracking and movement in GSF.

[Lavaar]

I am surprised that nobody is mentioning how useless a gunship railgun aimbot would be when the requirement to fire a railgun includes charging up. Knowing where the enemy is and where he is going to be in about 1-2 seconds is part of what makes good gunship pilots good. An aimbot that won't start charging until it sees an open enemy will waste a lot of time it could have been using to charge. Positioning and situational awareness, as well as strafing, account for much more than clicking where you need to click.

[SixVoltCar]

Yes it's possible, which is why a key part of compeditive modes is separation from loot. As soon as loot becomes involved, there is incentive to cheat rather than enjoy the game mode-- especially with a win-loss differential. People will say "why would I do the game mode for nothing", but realistically the only sustainable way to develop these is to either make them lootless, or to make them participation medals.

[Eldarion_Velator]

I am surprised that nobody is mentioning how useless a gunship railgun aimbot would be when the requirement to fire a railgun includes charging up. Knowing where the enemy is and where he is going to be in about 1-2 seconds is part of what makes good gunship pilots good. An aimbot that won't start charging until it sees an open enemy will waste a lot of time it could have been using to charge. Positioning and situational awareness, as well as strafing, account for much more than clicking where you need to click.

 

I should add that railgun charge eats weapon power during the charge-up and while the charge is being held, so an aimbot that either waits until a target is in LOS, in range, and in the open to charge up would be as problematic as one that charges up when a target gets in range regardless of LOS. The only kind of aim assistance I can think of that might be viable is one that is a "snap to target" type, and does only that - snap your reticle to the center of a selected target, leaving the charging, firing, and maneuvering to you (however, if your game's "sweet spot" is something other than center mass, this "snap to center" function will be more of a hassle than a utility). This of course would not be able to account for how many of us gunship veterans like to shoot at targets that we don't have targeted (for a variety of reasons, most of them tactical), and our accuracy thereof.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Eldarion_Velator