248 pieces extraction cost too high

[Andryah]

Since you chose to line item nit pick your own personal list of credit cost peeves..... I'll be happy to answer your questions.

 

Why should dying in PvE cost credit while dying in PvP is free?

 

Because the purpose and intent in PvP is to kill and be killed. The entire point is killing each other. In PvE, the purpose is to kill, collect reward and move on.

 

Why should pulling out a Legendary mod with lower stats be more expensive than pulling out a superior Artifact quality mod?

 

As has always been true since launch... the cost is tied to the items rarity (which also has a color code).

 

The issue with a Legendary item having worse stats then an Artifact item ------> bug report forum.

 

Why should the listing fee for a speeder on the GTN cost $3750 while Cartel items have a listing fee of less than $100?

 

Why the listing fee for a mount? ..... more like who cares. You get the fee back whether the item sells or not.

 

And to note: Cartel Mounts also are a 3750 deposit too... so maybe be more specific about what you mean when you say Cartel items.

 

Plus, this modifies player behaviors. How many times does someone rage quit an Op due the cost of repair bills? That certainly doesn't engender a good community.

 

Serious players do not rage quit over deaths in an OP, especially in this MMO. They know the risks and they know it comes with the territory... AND plan accordingly.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Andryah

[Yezzan]

I agree, the credit cost is too much. Not everybody is out credit farming. And who the hell is making 2 million credits from an expansion?

 

Most of us disintegrate the useless gear we get from command crates, so that we can help level up our command rank, and since, thats the primary way to get gear drops, where we making the money from? Daily heroics? lol who have time for those when people busy grinding command ranks.

 

Majority of the players are nhot credit hording fanatics; also, most of the rich players are the vloggers, who get people to use their friend code and they horde millions of free cartel coins, which they use to buy hypercrates and sell on the GTN. Plus the credit spammers selling people fake credit. So, what's this crap about people making Millions of credits? From where?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Yezzan

[Talon_strikes]

Pretty much.

 

Just like real life, playing an MMO effectively requires a player to actually make plans for how they plan to play... and this includes a wealth generation plan that exceeds their expected costs. And such a plan would of course be reviewed and adjusted as player plans/needs change too. There is not debt mechanism in MMOs, thankfully, so people actually need to follow old school practices of wealth-in > then wealth-out if they want to be successful in playing an MMO. And it's different for each player, as some have modest spending tastes and others are more extravagant.

 

SWTOR is in fact one of the easier MMOs to implement a plan to create more credits then you will spend.

For someone who's claimed several times in the past that they play the GTN on SEVERAL servers and basically control the markets, I have to say you are way out of touch with the average SWTOR player who may like casual PvE or only PvPs.

 

I agree, the credit cost is too much. Not everybody is out credit farming. And who the hell is making 2 million credits from an expansion?

 

Most of us disintegrate the useless gear we get from command crates, so that we can help level up our command rank, and since, thats the primary way to get gear drops, where we making the money from? Daily heroics? lol who have time for those when people busy grinding command ranks.

 

Majority of the players are nhot credit hording fanatics; also, most of the rich players are the vloggers, who get people to use their friend code and they horde millions of free cartel coins, which they use to buy hypercrates and sell on the GTN. Plus the credit spammers selling people fake credit. So, what's this crap about people making Millions of credits? From where?

This.

 

Johnny boy over at SWTORTV on YouTube has been seen with hundreds of thousands of CC. This type of player and those who whale on the GTN are simply out of touch on this subject and shouldn't have their input taken seriously.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[merovejec]

Are the people running out of things about which to complain here?

 

No seriously, why do you move the mods anyway? I got several sets and just put them on, no credits needed.

[exfell]

Are the people running out of things about which to complain here?

 

No seriously, why do you move the mods anyway? I got several sets and just put them on, no credits needed.

 

I have zero complaints about the cost but what comes to reason...

Perhaps not every person is lucky enough to have several 248 sets like you. I hardly have one and that means when I want to switch between ranked and pve I pull about 10 augs and two enhancements. A skank tank would be pulling mods.

Edited May 16, 2017 by exfell

[SteveTheCynic]

Most of us disintegrate the useless gear we get from command crates, so that we can help level up our command rank, and since, thats the primary way to get gear drops, where we making the money from? Daily heroics? lol who have time for those when people busy grinding command ranks.

I do heroics because it's better to get *some* CXP and credits and other junk while waiting for the next WZ to pop than *none*. But of course the heroics aren't my main source of CXP.

 

With a +100% booster, I get almost enough CXP to gain a rank for a won WZ, or a bit less if the team loses. It's ... unusual ... for me to finish with fewer than 11 medals, even in a losing match, and I *suck* at PvP(1). That said, I often see someone in the final results with four medals and no damage done or healed. No idea what happened there.

 

(1) I might suck, but I watch what happens, and I keep my gear up to strength, and I never *ever* let up. I just wish that me appearing in a fight didn't cause my team-mates to run away.

[Andryah]

For someone who's claimed several times in the past that they play the GTN on SEVERAL servers and basically control the markets, I have to say you are way out of touch with the average SWTOR player who may like casual PvE or only PvPs.

 

If you are going to sideways pseudo quote me.... at least be accurate.

 

I do play GTNs on multiple servers. I do NOT control any markets, and in fact I put downward pressure on prices in the market for items I buy and sell, which helps keep prices stable and puts risk pressure on those seeking to monopolize a market segment.

 

As for out of touch... I am very aware of the range of wealth that players have in game, as I am in a good solid guild and we freely exchange information, views, and opinions.... and we do so without resorting to the passive aggressive tactics you just plied in this post.

 

Most veteran players in fact are sitting on tens of millions of credits at the low end, and billions at the top end, and it is veterans that would be doing the pull and move on mods. Any veteran playing the "poor card" is simply bad at managing their balance between expenses and income for their personal play style.

 

Newer players generally are not as wealthy... yet are sitting on several million credits by the time they reach level cap on their first character ... but these players will not be as nuanced as some veterans about constantly pulling and tuning or moving mods around, nor are they fully invested in all aspects of the game that drain credits.. so their ongoing expense are lower.

 

Expenses and resource drains are part and parcel to MMOs and always have been. For this MMO, it's actually smoother and more balanced then many other MMOs. As long as you have a plan that enables you to enjoy the game, earn income and resources in excess of your costs.. you suffer no impact to your ongoing game play.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Andryah

[psandak]

You're hung up on the interface for how BWA would recapture the credits. I am sure there's a better way to handle collecting the credits than I have thought of. The point is that by tying the credit sink to activities you are destined to create inequities in how much is a fair credit sink.

 

Why should dying in PvE cost credit while dying in PvP is free?

Why should pulling out a Legendary mod with lower stats be more expensive than pulling out a superior Artifact quality mod?

Why should the listing fee for a speeder on the GTN cost $3750 while Cartel items have a listing fee of less than $100?

 

Plus, this modifies player behaviors. How many times does someone rage quit an Op due the cost of repair bills? That certainly doesn't engender a good community.

 

Quite honestly, BWA does not have that many credit sinks so they gouge the fees on a select few activities. That's the issue that I have. My preferred method for dealing with excess credits in the economy is a flat tax; however, if they added credit sinks to almost every activities but at a lower and more logical rate, I think that could be a fair solution as well. For example, they should have plenty of metric telling them how often a player rips out a mod vs. dying in a Op vs. dying in PvP vs. traveling in the space ship, etc etc. If the credit sink fee was proportionately based on the frequency of the overall activity, I think that would be a much better system.

 

Out of curiosity what is your other MMO experience? Is SWTOR your first or have you played others? If you have played others which ones? Can you name an MMO that uses a "flat tax" currency sink?

[Andryah]

Out of curiosity what is your other MMO experience? Is SWTOR your first or have you played others? If you have played others which ones? Can you name an MMO that uses a "flat tax" currency sink?

 

Excellent pointed question.

 

I am not aware of any western market online game, MMO or not, that applies any form of mandatory flat tax style fees. There might be something like this going on over in Asias grinder games, but knowing Asian culture as I do, I doubt it because Asian players would strongly balk at it.

 

It definitely would not go over well with players as most players actually understand that expenses actually related to what you do in game is much more logical and fair. A flat tax approach is completely unfair (like in real life, such taxes are regressive in nature) as players do take breaks from the game, and do play sporadically, from time to time and would be really pissed to log on after a break and find they were taxed into the poor house while they were gone. There is simply no way to structure such an approach that it would not forcibly penalize the players least able to generate credits to offset it.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Andryah

[DarthSpuds]

Why should pulling out a Legendary mod with lower stats be more expensive than pulling out a superior Artifact quality mod?

 

I buy a pair of boots. Do I have to pay again to change the laces? What about if I want to change the laces back a week later?

 

If I OWN the Armour, and I OWN the Mod, AND I use an Item Modification Station there should be NO COST at all for swapping out Mods.

 

All The Best

[Andryah]

If I OWN the Armour, and I OWN the Mod, AND I use an Item Modification Station there should be NO COST at all for swapping out Mods.

 

While I don't know if "no cost" is the right answer (probably not) .... I definitely feel that using a Mod Station should, at a minimum, give a nice discount. A 50% discount for subscribers (and nothing for preferred/F2P) would make sense as it's big enough to motivate use, but not a welfare give away.

 

It's always felt absurd that using a Mod Station adds absolutely no value in the mod changing process. I'm sure it goes way back to some artifact in pre-launch work (long since invalid) .... like maybe they originally thought about making a Mod Station mandatory for fiddling with mods.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Andryah

[Eli_Porter]

I buy a pair of boots. Do I have to pay again to change the laces? What about if I want to change the laces back a week later?

 

If I OWN the Armour, and I OWN the Mod, AND I use an Item Modification Station there should be NO COST at all for swapping out Mods.

 

All The Best

 

And what if the Item Modification System has operation and maintenance costs? And the higher the quality of materials it has to work with, the more taxing it is on the system and its resources?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Andryah]

And what if the Item Modification System has operation and maintenance costs? And the higher the quality materials it has to work with, the more taxing it is on the system and its resources?

 

The cost to pull a mod IS the maintenance cost in the context of the player. If all that happens is the costs get moved to some other transaction element still associated with pulling mods.... seems like useless busy work for the studio.

 

Mod Stations are, by definition, community resources (even the ones instanced in a Stronghold, as most people make their strongholds public). I don't see people paying for upkeep and operation of community resources, as it's illogical in an MMO.

 

Implementing a cost discount for using a Mod Station though..... actually makes Mod Stations have some real benefit other then being required to install augment slots. In the long run, it's probably credit neutral in the economy too, as it will soak less credits per pull, but players will be more likely to change mods more often too because of reduced costs.

 

But I doubt the studio will embed a discount in Mod Stations at this point. In past years, when there were complaints about mod pulling costs, or repair fees, etc... the studio approach has been to simply reduce costs in their cost tables.... probably because it is easy to do and therefore fairly bullet proof low hanging fruit from the "customer satisfaction tree". Now, beginning with 4.0, they went another direction.... they ramped up the credit fountains in game rather then lower costs on existing expense elements, so I doubt recent complaints about costs will move them to lower costs again.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Andryah

[DarthSpuds]

And what if the Item Modification System has operation and maintenance costs? And the higher the quality of materials it has to work with, the more taxing it is on the system and its resources?

 

I'm prepared to believe in The Force, that FTL travel is possible, and that Lightsabers will work.

 

But there's only so far I am prepared to go in suspending disbelief to make the game coherent for me.

 

There is no in-game reason for charging for swapping out Mods. There just isn't.

 

There's things called Item Modification Stations - but as we don't need to use them at all for Mods, Enhancements, Armourings or Hilts/Barrels (we do need them for Augments) there can be no technological or expertise based cost (as Andryah suggests) to factor in.

 

Now, a coherent argument could be made for a Technological and/or Expertise based cost to be a factor, but ONLY if we can no longer do so "in the field". I play as much for Story and Immersion as I do anything else, so I would have no problem with that at all.

 

Now the only logical reason for having costs involved as we currently do things is player convenience - and a solid argument COULD be made from that angle. But not as long as the same charges apply when using an Item Modification Station - because using a Station removes the "convenience" factor.

 

To make the system coherent would only require simple changes; here's what I would suggest.

1) There is a Level/Quality based cost for removing Mods. There is no real reason for this cost to exceed 20k/item.

2) This cost is levied in full for removing Mods "in the field".

3) If you remove Mods at an Item Mod Station the cost is reduced by 33%

4) If you have the corresponding crafting skill (the skill to make the type of Mod you are removing) the cost is reduced by 33%

5) 3+4 can stack, giving a potential cost reduction of 66%.

 

All The Best

[Sportiva]

LOL ... my idea for a simple flat tax to get excess credits out of the in-game economy is ridiculed. Yet, we have multiple posts arguing about the validity of using a fictional currency to pay for the fictional operating costs of a fictional modification station that isn't even needed to remove or add modifications to an item. That sure sounds like the most rational and simple solution to inflation in the SWTOR economy. Well done, gents.

[DarthSpuds]

LOL ... my idea for a simple flat tax to get excess credits out of the in-game economy is ridiculed. Yet, we have multiple posts arguing about the validity of using a fictional currency to pay for the fictional operating costs of a fictional modification station that isn't even needed to remove or add modifications to an item. That sure sounds like the most rational and simple solution to inflation in the SWTOR economy. Well done, gents.

 

Except the thread is quite clearly referencing the cost of Mod removal, and NOT a solution to inflation in the economy (which could easily be fixed by adding a maximum list price of 50 Million on the GTN).

 

All The Best

[Toraak]

Lets be honest. 50k isn't much per Armoring/mod/enhancement. It is so easy to make credits in Swtor that if 150k is to much cost for you, then your playing the game wrong.150k takes less then 20 mins to make in this game. It's absolutely NOTHING!!

[DarthSpuds]

Lets be honest. 50k isn't much per Armoring/mod/enhancement. It is so easy to make credits in Swtor that if 150k is to much cost for you, then your playing the game wrong.150k takes less then 20 mins to make in this game. It's absolutely NOTHING!!

 

Its absolutely nothing to you perhaps.

It is close to absolutely nothing to me as well.

 

It is 75% of a F2P Player's credit cap.

It is 42% of a Premium Player's credit cap.

 

Time to start thinking about the WHOLE community, not just out own narrow niche.

 

All The Best

[psandak]

While I don't know if "no cost" is the right answer (probably not) .... I definitely feel that using a Mod Station should, at a minimum, give a nice discount. A 50% discount for subscribers (and nothing for preferred/F2P) would make sense as it's big enough to motivate use, but not a welfare give away.

 

It's always felt absurd that using a Mod Station adds absolutely no value in the mod changing process. I'm sure it goes way back to some artifact in pre-launch work (long since invalid) .... like maybe they originally thought about making a Mod Station mandatory for fiddling with mods.

 

At launch the only way to move around item modifications was at the mod stations. But there was not nearly as much moddable gear then as their is now. In addition the armor itself had the set bonus not the armoring, so you HAD to where the Tionese, Columi, or Rakata (and later Black Hole and the last tier of armor in 1.x that the name escapes me) armor in order to get the set bonus, therefore moving item modifications was FAR less desirable.

[Toraak]

Its absolutely nothing to you perhaps.

It is close to absolutely nothing to me as well.

 

It is 75% of a F2P Player's credit cap.

It is 42% of a Premium Player's credit cap.

 

Time to start thinking about the WHOLE community, not just out own narrow niche.

 

All The Best

 

and it still takes less then 20 mins to get it, regardless of credit cap. Pulling out mods for 1 item isn't much, and doesn't take long to get. So the credit cap is irrelevant for this. do 1 set of Czerka dailies. boom your almost there. Credit cap is no excuse.

[psandak]

Darthspuds...

 

You do realize that truly F2P accounts do not even have access to artifact and above gear, not to mention that they are restricted to level 50 meaning they will NEVER see legendary gear in their possession.

 

As for Premium accounts (as in former subs), they get do not get access to GC do not get access to Command Tokens (they might already have a stash of them; legit question: can they use CTs that they have?), meaning that even if they acquire a token to turn in for a legendary gear piece (not sure they can) they cannot buy it because it requires command tokens.

[DarthSpuds]

Darthspuds...

 

You do realize that truly F2P accounts do not even have access to artifact and above gear, not to mention that they are restricted to level 50 meaning they will NEVER see legendary gear in their possession.

 

And that automatically means they'll never want to change Mods?

 

No, it doesn't - so your argument is spurious at best.

 

All The Best

[jimmorrisson]

What I'd like to know is who designed the 248 gear.it looks bloody ridiculous.My gunslinger looks like an Olympic ski jumper,not a bad *** smuggler.

 

I have grown to like the King/Emperor/Royal-inspired Eternal Commander endgame gear (Warrior/Knight is questionable however).

 

The Iokath and Gemini weapons have animated hilts and barrels which open! (Sabers have that scratchy ignition sound however). I particularly like the back-holstered Eternal Commander saberstaves and would like their successors the Iokath and Gemini staves to backholster also.

 

 

Unfortunately six months into Galactic Command Crates - few have full sets and even then the mods (armor, barrels, enhancements, hilts, and mods) are pulled to be placed in legacy gear. Whereas pre-5.0 Exarch, Exemplar, Deceiver and Reaver gear were commonplace, worn with pride.

Edited May 16, 2017 by jimmorrisson

[DanNV]

The prices are crazy high. I expect it is an attempt top get people to play the content that has been abandoned due to poor quality and bugs. Running Ops will you in the neighborhood of 20K per wipe (and some nights that might top 20) and then when you get a piece of gear it's 50k per mod to pull them out. And the rewards are next to nil. I figure I'll raid until I run out of credits and then go to ESO full time.

[Kagekeishu]

I stoped extracting things a long time ago... I think it was shortly after the release of the Outfitdesigner... For 90% of the game you'll only need the stuff you'll loot without changing a lot of things - perhaps 1 or 2 things but nothing more you may need to change from that loot..! So if you are not one of those who would like to do the other 10% of the game you should be fine without extracting sth. ...

 

 

Best regards

Kage